Trade Brad Stevens and a first round pick (nets or another one depending if Nets is in top 2) to Indiana for Paul George?
No chance. Unless I knew Stevens was going to leave anyway, I wouldn't trade him alone for George.Trade Brad Stevens and a first round pick (nets or another one depending if Nets is in top 2) to Indiana for Paul George?
I mean Vogel is a decent coach probably above average, but are you joking with McHale? He's about as average as they come.what if you could hire McHale or Vogel?
The value of a coach in the NBA isnt on the same level as say the NFL, but there is still value in having a good coach. Recently Chad Finn had a tweet where he asked how many titles Boston would have won during the Big3 era if Stevens was the coach instead of Doc. Now Doc's not a horrible coach, I think Finn's question is a good one and I think they would have won at least 1 more with Stevens.
Based on that I'm not trading him for George. George is very good but he isnt Lebron where the team will contend as long as they have some other talent on the roster. When people look at the run that San Antonio has had obviously thats a combination of a great GM, the stability of Duncan and the influx of new stars that they found without bottoming out like Parker, Ginobli, Leonard and now Aldridge but Popovich has played a large and sometimes under-rated role in that as well. In Stevens I think we have a coach who could do something similar like that here if he had the influx of talent. I think we have a coach capable of winning a title so that aspet of our organization is all set and I'm not sure if George is a capable of winning a title as your best player, so I'd have a tough time making that trade.
I mean Vogel is a decent coach probably above average, but are you joking with McHale? He's about as average as they come.
Add Paul George to those Celtics teams and how many more titles do they win?...Recently Chad Finn had a tweet where he asked how many titles Boston would have won during the Big3 era if Stevens was the coach instead of Doc. Now Doc's not a horrible coach, I think Finn's question is a good one and I think they would have won at least 1 more with Stevens.
Based on that I'm not trading him for George...
I look at it as value. You get Paul George, but him alone doesn't win a title. If you put the necessary talent it takes to win around Brad Stevens, he'll win. If he wins, he'll be around Boston for a decade-plus like Popovich is with San Antonio. Do you want 5 great years out of PG and the possibility that the coach doesn't gel the talent or 10 plus great years of Stevens plus top end talent? The Celtics have the assets and cap space to make a bona fide championship team. Brad Stevens doesn't have to be one of those assets.How much did the Celtics players rally around Stevens when they couldn't score against playoff level defenses the past two springs? This is a coach who has done a great job to boot. A head coaches value is that of a backend rotation guy, 8th-9th man, which is why they are compensated as such. Look at Vogel today vs two years ago.
You trade George for the #1, Stevens, the entire coaching staff, and your entire executive secretary staff without blinking an eye if you're looking to improve the talent on the floor which is what wins in the NBA.
Its 2009/10 and 2011/12 that I think Stevens makes a 1 game difference which would be the difference in getting a title. He has had the team revolving around Isaiah and with an unimpressive supporting cast Isaiah has had no real drop off in efficiency. Isaiah is a talent but he's not elite talent, so I can only imagine what he would have done with even an aging Big3. In 2010 we were a few plays away from beating the Lakers and I'd be willing to bet Stevens could make a couple of plays difference.Stevens would not have done any better than Doc.
In 2008 with a healthy team, Doc won it all.
In 2009, the team was rolling until KG's knee gave out. Stevens doesn't win with Big Baby as his PF.
In 2010, we were a ref hose job away from another title and damn near won it anyways. Maybe Stevens reminds Ray how to make an open 3.
In 2011, we ran into the Miami Big 3. No chance.
In 2012, Doc took a horrid aging team and damn near took down an improved Big 3 Miami squad.
83% of voters prefer an NBA coach over an All-NBA player in his prime. That is beyond insane.It's a ridiculous scenario anyways, because there's no way anyone trades Paul George for a coach (I don't think the Brooklyn pick plus Stevens gets you George unless Indiana over does it on the ethanol either), but of course you do.
Paul George instantly makes this team lightyears better. He is a two-way monster - not as good as Lebron or Kawhi, but capable of the same kind of dominance. He's the kind of player you look to build for the next decade around. He'd be the teams best shooter on the wing instantly. He'd make Thomas so so so much better.
Agreed. I love Stevens, but that is some serious kool-aid drinking.83% of voters prefer an NBA coach over an All-NBA player in his prime. That is beyond insane.
Fun stat of the day:Without knowing, I'd make that swap, and bet on Ainge bringing in another top tier hire. Stevens is great, but I do believe there are a lot of other very good potential coaches out there - many NBA GMs just don't know what to look for. The market for NBA players is a lot more efficient than the market for NBA coaches.
Good thing he didn't win coach of the year then!Fun stat of the day:
From 2003 to 2013 every Coach of the Year Award winner not named Popovich was fired within 4 seasons of winning the award. 9 for 9. The typical shelf life for a Head Coach with any one team is not very long.
This seems wrong to me for a few reasons. 1) George's stats look fine, and the team was pretty good. I don't see any reason to think he's not the player he was pre-injury; 2) George pre-injury was in the conversation for being a top 5 player - even if he's not the same player he was, he has some room to fall; 3) George is actually a year younger than Butler fwiw.I mostly voted against b/c I wasn't completely sold on George. I wouldn't trade Stephens + the Brooklyn pick for George, b/c I am not completely sold on him being the player he used to be pre-injury. I would trade that package for Butler though b/c he seems a safer bet.
My point was that the shelf lives are very short even for the most successful head coaches as they are only as good as the players who carry their team.Good thing he didn't win coach of the year then!
Yeah, I was just kidding. That said, I think this just points to an issue with coach of the year as a way to judge good coaching. As I posted in another thread, the coach of the year award overlaps strongly with which team beat their Vegas expectation by the most. That might end up selecting for a lot of fluke teams, and may make it hard for the top coaches to win, because Vegas already knows their teams will be good going into the year.My point was that the shelf lives are very short even for the most successful head coaches as they are only as good as the players who carry their team.
Bowiac already appropriately criticized whether COTY is a good measure of elite coaching. True elite coaching, aka Pop, Red, Jackson (I hate including him but he probably belongs) are incredibly rare. I think how you answer this question depends on if you see Stevens as realistically entering those ranks. If you do, 25 years of elite coaching is more valuable that 5 seasons of a top 10 player, I think. If you don't, 5 seasons of a top 10 player is more valuable than anything you'd get from a lesser caliber coach.My point was that the shelf lives are very short even for the most successful head coaches as they are only as good as the players who carry their team.
He just had perhaps his best year of his career though at age 25. His injury seems like a non factor at this pointI am not completely sold on him being the player he used to be pre-injury.