@RapSheet: The #Patriots are declining the fifth-year option on G Jonathan Cooper, who they acquired in a trade with the #AZCardinals.
It doesn't preclude them signing him to a different deal.I'm confused. If they knew they would have to do this anyway, why did they get him in the trade?
So, there's a risk but if they have established their interest with him, not a great risk?It doesn't preclude them signing him to a different deal.
Yeah, I remember the trade. I'm not that fucking old.Because they were also receiving a 2nd rounder and because the guy they were giving up was only going to play 1 more year for the Pats as well.
If he sucks, he's expensive but there aren't a ton of 7th rounders that have the upside.Yeah, I remember the trade. I'm not that fucking old.
My question was more along the lines of, why not just ask for a 7th in addition to the 2nd. Why get a player in return that you could wind up losing?
Okay, now I realize how stupid I was being. I thought the fifth-year option was for this coming season, not 2017.If he sucks, he's expensive but there aren't a ton of 7th rounders that have the upside.
If he's great, they either resign him or he leaves and they get a comp pick that will be tradeable under new rules.
If he's just good, he gets his superbowl ring and we see what happens next.
Don't feel bad E5, I only figured this out by counting on my fingers up from his draft year 2013.Okay, now I realize how stupid I was being. I thought the fifth-year option was for this coming season, not 2017.
Carry on, I have to get in line for Cream O'Wheat
If this is the case, then Belichick and the Pats got hosed.It's worth considering that Cooper (and his sizable-ish salary) was added to the trade at the insistence of ARIZONA, not as a sweetener for N.E.
Do you pour prune juice over it? Helps with regularity.Okay, now I realize how stupid I was being. I thought the fifth-year option was for this coming season, not 2017.
Carry on, I have to get in line for Cream O'Wheat
What?It's worth considering that Cooper (and his sizable-ish salary) was added to the trade at the insistence of ARIZONA, not as a sweetener for N.E.
Do you have a quote or reference for this?It's worth considering that Cooper (and his sizable-ish salary) was added to the trade at the insistence of ARIZONA, not as a sweetener for N.E.
Normally true but I think in this case much of Cooper's money is guaranteed as a top first round pick.Do you have a quote or reference for this?
Because it makes no sense - the nfl isn't like MLB - you can't trade guys to get salary relief. When you trade someone with remaining bonus, you still have to pay it. There's not really any difference between trading a guy and cutting him.
Actually tough guy what you're saying makes no sense.Cooper has a guaranteed salary so there is a huge difference between trading him and cutting him; if you trade him the new team (the Pats) are responsible for his salar but if you cut him you're on the hook.Do you have a quote or reference for this?
Because it makes no sense - the nfl isn't like MLB - you can't trade guys to get salary relief. When you trade someone with remaining bonus, you still have to pay it. There's not really any difference between trading a guy and cutting him.
Cooper has a 675K salary and a 1.7M roster bonus - which is guaranteed. He gets his money either way.Actually tough guy what you're saying makes no sense.Cooper has a guaranteed salary so there is a huge difference between trading him and cutting him; if you trade him the new team (the Pats) are responsible for his salar but if you cut him you're on the hook.
I assume the pats factored in the possibility that he'd be suck and they'd just have to take a 2 millionish hit as part of the price of the Jones deal.
The deal is slightly offset by the comp pick they would've gotten had they tendered an offer to Jones. Adding Long is what makes this a great deal for the Pats. Really, a BB coup.So we lose Jones for 1 year. Get 1 year of Cooper & Long, a 2017 2nd, and 2.5m in cap space for 2016.
They didn't get Long because of the trade and I'd be careful of what you wish for. I'd love to take odds on Chris Long finishing the season on the 53. Seems like Adrian Wilson/Torry Holt v2. Getting a once great player on the 18th hole never mind the back nine.The deal is slightly offset by the comp pick they would've gotten had they tendered an offer to Jones. Adding Long is what makes this a great deal for the Pats. Really, a BB coup.
A lot of those types were considerably old than Long. Chris Long will be 31; he played well at 28, was injured at age 29, and was sort of injured and not effective at 30.I could be wrong but I'm not sure it's fair to compare Chris Long - even with a nod to the last couple of injury-riddled seasons - to Adrian Wilson or Torry Holt. It seems like he's at an age and stage of career that's not quite so hanging-by-a-thread-ish, no?
The best comp that you want to shoot for is Randy Moss. His last year in Minnesota and his 2 years in Oakland were subpar by his standards. He came to New England at age 30 and you know the rest.A lot of those types were considerably old than Long. Chris Long will be 31; he played well at 28, was injured at age 29, and was sort of injured and not effective at 30.
Holt was 34 for the pats. He'd been pretty good at 32 and 33.
Adrian Wilson was 33 for the pats--he'd played a lot (although apparently not particularly effectively) at age 31 and 32.
Galloway was 38 so I don't think he's a fair comp. Jon Lynch was 37.
I think the comps you're hoping for are Carter/Anderson from 2011--they were 32 and 28 but coming off of some bad seasons.
No, but I think Cooper was something of a lottery ticket.Very disappointed they got zero out of Cooper. Thuney is looking good but Chandler Jones trade not looking great right now.
They could have let Jones walk and gotten a third as a comp pick. I would have rather they done that.Yeah, the trade was always about the draft pick and the cap space. They were never going to prioritize Jones over Collins or Hightower, so I'm cool with them trying to capitalize while he had good value.
What's the present value of a third in 2018? Like a fourth in 2017, right? And the comp pick would be at the end of the third round, so more like a high fourth.They could have let Jones walk and gotten a third as a comp pick. I would have rather they done that.
I don't subscribe to that kind of time discounting of draft picks. And the Cardinals pick was a late second, so basically a third.What's the present value of a third in 2018? Like a fourth in 2017, right? And the comp pick would be at the end of the third round, so more like a high fourth.
It saved Jones' ~$7.8 MM ... but Jones is a bargain at that price. And they took on Cooper's ~$2.4 MM (fully guaranteed).I think it also opened up money to sign Chris Long..
The room was used to sign Long and also trade for the Unicorn. I'd say this was still a good trade. If Thuney is as good as we all think he can be, Thuney for Jones would be a win for the Pats.I think it also opened up money to sign Chris Long..
It didn't free up that much money. Jones makes ~$7.8 MM this year, but they took on Cooper (~$2.4), Thuney ($650K), and Mitchell ($600K). So they only saved like $4.5 MM. Bennett's hit alone is just north of $5MM.The room was used to sign Long and also trade for the Unicorn. I'd say this was still a good trade. If Thuney is as good as we all think he can be, Thuney for Jones would be a win for the Pats.
No but they can carry over that $9.5M to next year when they need more room for the young defenders. It sucks that Cooper didn't pan out but he wasn't the biggest part of the trade.It didn't free up that much money. Jones makes ~$7.8 MM this year, but they took on Cooper (~$2.4), Thuney ($650K), and Mitchell ($600K). So they only saved like $4.5 MM. Bennett's hit alone is just north of $5MM.
Also, the Pats currently have ~$9.5 MM in cap space, so the idea that without trading Jones they couldn't have made the Bennett and Long moves doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
He wasn't the biggest part of the trade, but he was a significant part and he contributed nada. Actually less than nada because he's costing them $2.4 MM in cap space.No but they can carry over that $9.5M to next year when they need more room for the young defenders. It sucks that Cooper didn't pan out but he wasn't the biggest part of the trade.
Shadow roster!Michael Lombardi made a point that I haven't seen anywhere else
They are 3-1 without Jones and without their best player.But why not hang on to Jones if you feel you have a Super Bowl run this year?
We're not the Colts. We can't hang a banner for that. The point isn't that we got off to a good start regardless.They are 3-1 without Jones and without their best player.