McPhee and Loathing in Las Vegas: The Expansion Draft

Who should the Bruins protect with their 3rd Defenseman slot?

  • Colin Miller (1M/year, RFA after next season)

    Votes: 59 85.5%
  • Kevan Miller (2.5M/year, 3 seasons left, then UFA)

    Votes: 10 14.5%
  • Adam McQuaid (2.75M/year, 2 seasons left, then UFA)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    69
  • Poll closed .

burstnbloom

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We're arguing in circles but I don't believe Spooned has less value than Kevan Miller, though I think both have virtually no trade value. Given that, I see no reason not to protect spooner because the alternatives on the forward core have markedly less value. If you think Spooner is a lock to get picked, then clearly he holds more value than the Miller's and you're better off keeping him than exposing him. Either way, though, we are talking about middling, replaceable assets so I think we've spent about as much energy as we need on this.
 

j44thor

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No if Spooner is picked it merely means LAS views him as a better alternative amongst all players available to them than which ever Miller is left unprotected.

The expansion draft is going to be D heavy by virtue of the 7-3-1 format. Most teams have a decent top 4 D, very few have more than 5 decent forwards B's included. That leads to a likely imbalance of players available.

Personally I think C Miller has a lot more value than Spooner, and Kevan Miller on a good contract has a lot more value to the Bruins than Spooner given the FWs in the AHL pipeline.

Spooner could be one of the better FW's made available by virtue of the protection rules.
 

j44thor

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Sadly not protecting C Miller was entirely predictable.
MN ends up protecting Brodin instead of Dumba or Scandella.

LAS could own 1/4 of the first round if they really wanted to.
 

j44thor

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NYI protect 5 D but not De Haan though they may have a deal in place with LAS to protect him and Strome.
 

cshea

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Really not a fan of Kevan over Colin. Kevan is fine, but Colin is younger, cheaper and has a higher upside.
 

LogansDad

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I did a complete 180 on Kevan this season. I thought he improved drastically in almost every part of his game, so I am, strangely, okay with this.

I still reserve the right to complain about how stupid Sweeney is if Kevan turns back into a pumpkin this season, though.
 

burstnbloom

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I'm in the same boat as cshea. I came around on Kevan a lot this year but he is still a bottom of the roster player and when choosing between bottom of the roster players, always choose the younger, cheaper one who would be harder to replace.

I see this as a likely case of Sweeney costing the Bruins $1.5 mil in cap space. If I'm Vegas, I'm 100% taking a guy like Miller with a lower salary and more upside as they are building. That means McQuaid likely stays and if they can't move one or the other, we're stuck with one of them playing out of position or on the 9th floor. It's not the end of the world but it strikes me as a dumb move.
 

burstnbloom

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The CapFriendly tool is loaded and you can play around with it. Vegas could actually make a pretty decent team. I just drafted:

James Neal- Plekanec - Boedker
Cammalleri-Marchessault-Stempniak
Nelson-Eakin-Josh Anderson
Paquette - Kruger- Grabner
Lehtera, Colborne, Rychel, Gaunce, Pulkinen

Vatanen-Dumba
Bogosion-Mcnabb
Fayne - Colin Miller
Claesson, Oullet, Chairot

MAF
Neuvirth
Grubaer

I didn't take into account roster construction all that much but there is enough there to make an OK team with lots of opportunity to move people for picks/prospects at the deadline. The haul for Neal alone could be a 1st and a prospect.
 

Maximus

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I did a complete 180 on Kevan this season. I thought he improved drastically in almost every part of his game, so I am, strangely, okay with this.

I still reserve the right to complain about how stupid Sweeney is if Kevan turns back into a pumpkin this season, though.
I never thought I'd feel this way and thought Kevan was terrible 2 seasons ago but he did do a complete 180 last year and I am glad they protected him and have him as part of the D corps with Chara, McAvoy, Krug and Carlo. Colin Miller showed great potential but he was a Jekyll and Hyde type player. With that said, Vegas will definitely take him in the draft. Sweeney needs to find a taker for McQuaid since he is the same type of player as K. Miller.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I never thought I'd feel this way and thought Kevan was terrible 2 seasons ago but he did do a complete 180 last year and I am glad they protected him and have him as part of the D corps with Chara, McAvoy, Krug and Carlo. Colin Miller showed great potential but he was a Jekyll and Hyde type player. With that said, Vegas will definitely take him in the draft. Sweeney needs to find a taker for McQuaid since he is the same type of player as K. Miller.
I expected the Bruins to do what they did (protect Kevan over Colin) and I think it is defensible. Difficult decision because Colin likely has more upside but less value to the current team, which looks poised to contend.
 

cshea

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McPhee is The Godfather for 3 days. Good spot to be in. May not have a good team right out of the schute, but should have plenty of assets to work with.

 

Red Right Ankle

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He sounds like a don in that quote. "Nice roster you have. Would be terrible if something happened to it..."
 

GammonsSpecialPerson

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I'm in the same boat as cshea. I came around on Kevan a lot this year but he is still a bottom of the roster player and when choosing between bottom of the roster players, always choose the younger, cheaper one who would be harder to replace.

I see this as a likely case of Sweeney costing the Bruins $1.5 mil in cap space. If I'm Vegas, I'm 100% taking a guy like Miller with a lower salary and more upside as they are building. That means McQuaid likely stays and if they can't move one or the other, we're stuck with one of them playing out of position or on the 9th floor. It's not the end of the world but it strikes me as a dumb move.
Yep. This is the kind of decision that can undo a lot of good decisions and goodwill. If Colin Miller blossoms on another team and Kevan Miller is just Kevan Miller, this is going to look horrible in three years. Whereas if Colin Miller never gets any better while Kevan Miller is his dependable self, the team needs to progress or this will look horrible. Lose-lose, with virtually no upside.

Keeping Colin and letting Kevan go would have been the safer move. There's almost no way that ends up being more than a "eh, what could you do?" situation. By taking the riskier path, the Bruins are betting big on their young D and on Kevan being serviceable (IOW, what he was in 16-17) for two years while those kids develop.
 

wnyghost

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We're the Bruins hoping Colin would blossom?

I learned something about advance stats but if Colin Miller is in the same stat conversation as an elite defenseman like Burns... I question the stat.
 

wnyghost

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And wouldn't Miller have great trade value under his current contract if people were sold on the metrics?
 

twothousandone

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Every team is this league has a chance to protect their roster. We will not make a claim with any club before we talk to the club.”I'd love to be in McPhee's position, though I have no idea if he is the right guy, right now. Maybe he has advisors who are.
And it is essentially a cool stove dream come true -- what's fair value, or slightly over fair value, to not mess with whatever plan is in place.

"Take Brossoit and Rust, and Hayes, send the first two to Boston, and we'll give you our first round pick." McPhee has to respond "I can get a similar first for Brossoit and Rust from Chicago -- eight picks later, but I don't have to take on salary. Make a better offer, or I take Miller." Damn, what a great position to be in, and I'm not exactly sure he can "overplay" his hand. Someone decent is available across the board.

Great thread title, IMO.
 

TheRealness

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I would have preferred Colin to Kevan, especially with McQuaid on the roster, but I don't feel this is a major issue. I think Colin is a good young talent, but I am not convinced he's going to be the type of player his speed and shot would suggest.

I suspect this has more to do with team building than asset management, and they must feel Kevan fits better with the overall roster. Add in that McAvoy and Carlo are our top two RD, and the unpredictability of Colin's next contract and I think you find the FO's motivation here.

I am assuming Colin will be drafted, so while their top 4 is very good assuming McAvoy continues his strong play from the playoffs, their projected bottom two of Kevan and McQuaid is a potential disaster. They really need to find a way to move McQuaid. He just doesn't have a place in the new, faster NHL.
 

cshea

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I tried to draft a Vegas team. It's basically impossible to do so without knowing the side deals, but screw it. I followed the information that we currently have about some picks and deals. I picked Fleury, layed off Anaheim's D,
NYI's forwards, CBJ's Anderson and Johnson, and took Kruger from Chicago.

Neal - Shipachyov - Marchessault
Pouliot - Lehtera - Stempniak
Hudon - Stajan - Raffl
Kruger - Calvert - Dano
Logan Shaw, Brendan Gaunce

Methot - Dumba
De Haan - C. Miller
Schmidt - Schlemko
Koekkoek, Oleksiak, McNabb

Fleury
Mrazek
Ullmark
Pickard
Raanta

That comes in at $54.6 million.

I ended up taking 5 goalies, and would have to trade 2 of them. Tried to take a mix of vets on cheap, short term contracts that can be flipped at the deadline (Stempniak, Balls, Neal), and some fliers on young guys that haven't really broken through yet in the NHL (Hudon, Leipsic, Dano).

Vancouver, LA, Colorado and Arizona's unprotected lists are truly useless. I also found it amusing getting to STL and seeing Ryan Reaves protected.
 

timlinin8th

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If you're giving away a pick, make them take Hayes. At least McQuaid is replacement-level.
Hayes is up after this season. I'd rather them eat his cash than give up a pick. Beleskey is on the books for THREE MORE SEASONS. Ugh.
 

veritas

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Haggs was on T&R and said he's hearing they're going to take McQuaid. Which is ... interesting.
The odds of hack having any sources in the LV org is basically zero, but if he's heard this from Bruins people that suggests there could be a deal in place. He's just as likely full of shit though
 

MiracleOfO2704

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More Mock Drafts
ESPN: 3 drafts, B's lose Subban, Subban, Hayes(what is Andrew Knoll smoking?)
NHL.com: B's lose Subban
I saw Rosen's mock on NHL.com, and yeah, the logic he used behind the goalie picks for VGK (he has McPhee taking Fleury, Neuvirth, and Grubauer) is that Fleury and Neuvirth buys them a couple years for Grubauer and Subban to develop. And if it is Subban gone, I think you thank your lucky stars.
 

The Napkin

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right here
The odds of hack having any sources in the LV org is basically zero, but if he's heard this from Bruins people that suggests there could be a deal in place. He's just as likely full of shit though
He mumbled something about PEI connections with McQuaid and the Vegas group. And that if they wanted the better player they'd take Miller but the leadership and toughness that McQuaid might bring on top of the PEI thing...
I'm pretty sure I zoned out out of self preservation then.
 

TheRealness

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Haggs was on T&R and said he's hearing they're going to take McQuaid. Which is ... interesting.
I laughed at that. I don't see any way that happens.

The odds of hack having any sources in the LV org is basically zero, but if he's heard this from Bruins people that suggests there could be a deal in place. He's just as likely full of shit though
Accurate. He's click baiting, IMO.

Haggs thought they should've protected Beleskey...
Once again, his idiocy is proven out.

It continues to amaze me that he has a platform for his opinions.
Who else is there in Boston? I know he's terrible, and lazy and all of those things, but it's a barren landscape out there for Boston beat writers.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Either McQuaid or Subban would be such a massive let-off for this franchise. Not counting on it though, especially given the sorts of players McPhee valued as GM in DC

Who else is there in Boston? I know he's terrible, and lazy and all of those things, but it's a barren landscape out there for Boston beat writers.
I'd be more interested in hearing from that guy off exit 18 who waves cars through the River St. intersection, for starters.
 

TheRealness

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Either McQuaid or Subban would be such a massive let-off for this franchise. Not counting on it though, especially given the sorts of players McPhee valued as GM in DC


I'd be more interested in hearing from that guy off exit 18 who waves cars through the River St. intersection, for starters.
I think the appropriate answer is pretty much any regular in this forum, but the Boston media is going to media with dude guys like Haggs.
 

Red Right Ankle

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I would have preferred Colin to Kevan, especially with McQuaid on the roster, but I don't feel this is a major issue. I think Colin is a good young talent, but I am not convinced he's going to be the type of player his speed and shot would suggest.

I suspect this has more to do with team building than asset management, and they must feel Kevan fits better with the overall roster. Add in that McAvoy and Carlo are our top two RD, and the unpredictability of Colin's next contract and I think you find the FO's motivation here.

I am assuming Colin will be drafted, so while their top 4 is very good assuming McAvoy continues his strong play from the playoffs, their projected bottom two of Kevan and McQuaid is a potential disaster. They really need to find a way to move McQuaid. He just doesn't have a place in the new, faster NHL.
I think this pretty much nails the thinking here. The Bs FO probably feels they have a bunch of players on the roster and coming up that will provide C. Miller's value without his future contract.

Either McQuaid or Subban would be such a massive let-off for this franchise. Not counting on it though, especially given the sorts of players McPhee valued as GM in DC


I'd be more interested in hearing from that guy off exit 18 who waves cars through the River St. intersection, for starters.
I think the appropriate answer is pretty much any regular in this forum, but the Boston media is going to media with dude guys like Haggs.
I thought @BoSoxFink WAS that guy.
 

cshea

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Some more side deals filtering out. Vegas says they have half a dozen done and are still talking to a few teams. Known ones so far are:

- CBJ's 1 and prospect to lay off Jack Johnson and John Anderson apparently. Clarkson's contract could be involved as well.

- Anaheim has some sort of deal that keeps Manson and Vatanen protected. Anaheim doesn't have a pick this year. Probably a prospect haul going to Vegas here, but none of the pieces have leaked out.

- Isles are sending at least a first round pick to Vegas to keep de Haan, Bailey, Strome, Nelson. Supposedly Grabovski's contract is the pick, maybe Kulemin too.

- Tampa rumored to be sending a first to the Knights with bad contract, Jay Garrison or Ryan Callahan may be the bad contracts headed to Vegas.

2 or 3 more out there.

Edit: McPhee says he is taking a lot of defenseman, and will have to trade a few. So long, Colin. Could be an opportunity for the B's to use Vegas as the middle man to get their desired LHD
 

TheRealness

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Yeah, it sure sounds like Colin is the type of player they want. With the value of PMDs in this league, especially with Nashville's recent run led by a deep group of them, I definitely see him headed to Vegas.

I also think the Bruins will kick the tires on a LHD or potential top 6 winger, but I don't see the path to either happening. I expect them to make the pick at 18 and what we see now is what we get in October, absent maybe a depth center or defenseman in FA.
 

cshea

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Yeah, it sure sounds like Colin is the type of player they want. With the value of PMDs in this league, especially with Nashville's recent run led by a deep group of them, I definitely see him headed to Vegas.

I also think the Bruins will kick the tires on a LHD or potential top 6 winger, but I don't see the path to either happening. I expect them to make the pick at 18 and what we see now is what we get in October, absent maybe a depth center or defenseman in FA.
There's some chatter north of the border that Colin could be flipped by Vegas to the Leafs. The Leafs are in the market for a RHD. Miller's loved by analytics; Leafs are one of the more analytical leaning front offices with Kyle Dubas on the analytics side being an AGM. Dubas was the GM of Colin Miller's junior team, the Soo Greyhounds. So there's some smoke there. That would kind of suck. Anyways, draft is tonight so we'll find out soon enough.

For those interested in the Vegas team, check out McKenzie's timeline. He has a string of 15ish tweets about what's going on tonight and some of the trades done or heavily rumored to be happening.
 

veritas

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There's some chatter north of the border that Colin could be flipped by Vegas to the Leafs. The Leafs are in the market for a RHD. Miller's loved by analytics; Leafs are one of the more analytical leaning front offices with Kyle Dubas on the analytics side being an AGM. Dubas was the GM of Colin Miller's junior team, the Soo Greyhounds. So there's some smoke there. That would kind of suck. Anyways, draft is tonight so we'll find out soon enough.

For those interested in the Vegas team, check out McKenzie's timeline. He has a string of 15ish tweets about what's going on tonight and some of the trades done or heavily rumored to be happening.
nvm was in your last post
 
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j44thor

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Talk of "the Pledge" with McPhee is interesting.
Sounds like he told the teams that if they wanted to make any deals with VGK around unprotected players that they couldn't trade players pre-roster freeze that VGK might be interested in. Might explain why there was so few moves leading up the to freeze.
 

cshea

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Before even getting into 3rd party deals Vegas has lined up, it seems the Knights are getting Shea Theodore, Alex Tuch, Eric Haula and a bevy of draft picks. LeBrun says they've got at least 10 total picks spread over 3 years in their pocket. Not a bad way to start building a team.
 

TFP

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It sounds like McPhee played this remarkably. He had some of these teams over the barrel and used it wisely. One of McKenzie's tweets was how the GMs were simultaneous in awe and annoyed with how much he was able to extract from everyone. It's a fascinating exercise.
 

kenneycb

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Ale Xander

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I must say this thing of trading picks so you don't draft my guys is entertaining. Kind of wish we had more expansion drafts, to see this more often,
 

cshea

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The FLA move with Vegas possibly getting both Marchessault and Reilly Smith is a head scratcher. I can't figure out the Panthers end game there.
 

twothousandone

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There's word the deal with Pitt was in place a while ago. The supposed Chicago deal also seemed in place shortly after they were out. I wonder if non-Vegas teams will find out that moving early was a benefit -- especially if that "Pledge" talk is true. Pitt & Chi had clear objectives -- it's possible they moved quickly to get deals in place, then focus elsewhere. It seems like Florida and maybe Montreal were scrambling, and they might have been caught off-guard if McPhee, in essence, asked for more than he was rumored to get from Pitt/Chi.

I assume he's either known as a man of his word, wants to be known as a man of his word, or the deals were submitted to the league, and he wasn't/isn't permitted to back out. Because seeing Mrazek at $4 million had to make him wonder, at least a bit, about MAF at $5.7 million
 

kenneycb

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He could also just select both players and trade one, or both. The Red Wings list is pretty damn awful. An old Kronwall, Mrazek and that's about it.
 

Catcher Block

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Sportsnet reporting that Vegas has already agreed to a 2-year deal with Wild RFA Erik Haula, whom they will select in the expansion draft. It also confirms they're getting a conditional draft pick and prospect (Alex Tuch) for staying away from Dumba.