And Jeff Smith needs to be fired too. This is an easy decision by the Twins. ZERO tolerance. Good luck at home tonight Jeff with Mrs. Smith.Jeff Smith, 1B Coach? Former Sox minor leaguer. Took over for Butch Davis, who was fired after 2016 season.
This has been discussed in the "Men Behaving Badly" thread in P & G on why we haven't seen these situations arise yet. You are so right; there are going to be some other sports "heroes" toppled and it's not going to be pretty.This is the first story post-Weinstein involving a professional athlete. I suspect we will hear many, many more stories like this. And teams and fans will be facing some very tough decisions.
And hopefully, some of the older stories re-examined, like those involving Big Ben and Suggs and others.This has been discussed in the "Men Behaving Badly" thread in P & G on why we haven't seen these situations arise yet. You are so right; there are going to be some other sports "heroes" toppled and it's not going to be pretty.
She said the 1b coach is already gone so I assume it is Davis. Really shitty of whoever it was. If he hit on her a couple times and took no for an answer and afterwards acted politely and professionally, then no big deal. But to continue the behavior is harassment. Really crummy from an older, married man.Jeff Smith, 1B Coach? Former Sox minor leaguer. Took over for Butch Davis, who was fired after 2016 season.
And hopefully, some of the older stories re-examined, like those involving Big Ben and Suggs and others.
The odd thing is, the Peyton teabagging story did pop back up a year or two ago and didn't really go anywhere. If it resurfaced today, instead, he'd probably get a lot of blow back, but it seems like some people are going to be "grandfathered" in, absent some new accusations.There is soooooooooooooooooo much smoke around Peyton Manning. Big Ben too, but he's actually taken some flak for it, though not nearly enough.
You want fair punishment for athletes commensurate with their actions, regardless of team and regardless of Al Franken. The league needs something harsh here.Well, the question is whether or not athletes will be held to a different standard than every other public figure.
Do you want Mookie Betts kicked off the Red Sox if stories come out that he grabbed a couple of butts like Al Franken did?
I honestly don't know; with Peyton I was thinking more of spokesman roles, which is easier for me.Well, the question is whether or not athletes will be held to a different standard than every other public figure.
Do you want Mookie Betts kicked off the Red Sox if stories come out that he grabbed a couple of butts like Al Franken did?
Well, Franken, and other politicians are elected to their positions because of their judgment and in many cases their morality. It is part of the job.You want fair punishment for athletes commensurate with their actions, regardless of team and regardless of Al Franken. The league needs something harsh here.
While I agree with the sentiment, I don't expect it to play out that way. People with highly specialized and rare skill sets get treated differently. Maybe this wave of awakening will change that, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to bet on it.If athletes are carved out as an exception - that is, politicians are forced to resign, lawyers and doctors and retail workers and construction workers get fired, but athletes get suspended - then what are we saying to them, to our children, to women about what is and isn't right and who is and isn't above the law?
Of course, there is a line. I'm not sure exactly how far that line is, but Luke Heimlich was certainly on the other side of it.I expect we will see some suspensions, either from the league or from the teams, but I just don't believe we will see teams cut bait with valuable assets on the field if word comes out about Aaron Judge or Andrew Benintendi. Now, if someone like Jacob Ellsbury gets accused and a team could potentially get out of their contract due to a morality clause, we may see teams take a different path.
So far, at least. Look at Ray Rice vs. Joe Mixon.Well, Franken, and other politicians are elected to their positions because of their judgment and in many cases their morality. It is part of the job.
With out athletes, we seem to have not had a problem with domestic abusers, murderers, laptop thieves and all other types of criminals on our professional athletic fields.
I expect we will see some suspensions, either from the league or from the teams, but I just don't believe we will see teams cut bait with valuable assets on the field if word comes out about Aaron Judge or Andrew Benintendi. Now, if someone like Jacob Ellsbury gets accused and a team could potentially get out of their contract due to a morality clause, we may see teams take a different path.
Louis CK, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby all fit that category. The question - in my mind - isn't about the rarity or value of their skill sets, it's about the way sports tribalizes us and has us root for strangers. People feel differently about David Ortiz than about The Rock.While I agree with the sentiment, I don't expect it to play out that way. People with highly specialized and rare skill sets get treated differently. Maybe this wave of awakening will change that, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to bet on it.
While this is a fair point, two of the people you listed flat out raped people (or are credibly accused of such). And Louis C.K. still his supporters who don't think he should be shut out for what he did. In cases where a certain line is crossed, yeah, we'll see reactions like we saw to Weinstein and Cosby, but something like what Sano did will probably be explained away to an extent, and he'll likely be allowed to resume his career after a suspension.Louis CK, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby all fit that category. The question - in my mind - isn't about the rarity or value of their skill sets, it's about the way sports tribalizes us and has us root for strangers. People feel differently about David Ortiz than about The Rock.
For what it is worth I wasn't comparing what Sano is accused of doing to butt grabbing.The description of what Sano is alleged to have done is really scary. I don't like the comparison with butt-grabbing. In my earlier years, I have been the "victim" of the latter more times than I can count, but, I am happy to say, never of an attempt to drag me into a men's room. That is every woman's nightmare, especially in malls in the evening.
I don't think so, but I don't think 1) Franken got a fair hearing and it seems reasonable that 2) our expectations are higher of Senators than of ballplayers. I just can't imagine Big Papi hasn't pinched a rear or two, but maybe I'm wrong. . . .For what it is worth I wasn't comparing what Sano is accused of doing to butt grabbing.
I was laying out a hypothetical where an athlete is accused of doing what Franken did. Should that athlete lose his job like Franken has?
Yes, because the goal is to build a better society by ceasing to tolerate abusive behavior, and if the careers and reputations of some rich and famous dudes are damaged as a result of their own disgusting behavior that's a remarkably tiny price to pay for half our population getting to feel a little safer and heard and respected.For what it is worth I wasn't comparing what Sano is accused of doing to butt grabbing.
I was laying out a hypothetical where an athlete is accused of doing what Franken did. Should that athlete lose his job like Franken has?
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21903348/miguel-sano-minnesota-twins-denies-assault-allegations-mlb-looking-matterSano issued a statement Thursday denying the allegations.
"I unequivocally deny the allegation made against me today -- it never happened," Sano said in the statement. "I have the utmost respect for women, especially those working in professional sports, and I deeply sympathize with anyone who has experienced sexual harassment. There is no place for it in our society."
A agent/lawyer written and released statement as expected. And the process of he said/she said begins.
Different circumstances obviously but isn't this similar to what the Yankees wanted to do with Alex Rodriguez?Well, Franken, and other politicians are elected to their positions because of their judgment and in many cases their morality. It is part of the job.
With out athletes, we seem to have not had a problem with domestic abusers, murderers, laptop thieves and all other types of criminals on our professional athletic fields.
I expect we will see some suspensions, either from the league or from the teams, but I just don't believe we will see teams cut bait with valuable assets on the field if word comes out about Aaron Judge or Andrew Benintendi. Now, if someone like Jacob Ellsbury gets accused and a team could potentially get out of their contract due to a morality clause, we may see teams take a different path.
Yeah, I'm not going to draw lines. Society can do that between rape and assault and harassment, and that's part of our job and then to evolve those lines.While this is a fair point, two of the people you listed flat out raped people (or are credibly accused of such). And Louis C.K. still his supporters who don't think he should be shut out for what he did. In cases where a certain line is crossed, yeah, we'll see reactions like we saw to Weinstein and Cosby, but something like what Sano did will probably be explained away to an extent, and he'll likely be allowed to resume his career after a suspension.
It's still going to be a step forward from where we were a year ago, which was a world in which video of a man beating his fiancee unconscious wasn't enough to end his career. So hopefully it's not the last step we take in this direction.
Not a chance he admits to ANYTHING. He’ll be a pariah even if he says “just playing”.I don't disagree with what you think should be done. I disagree on what will be done. Sano didn't actually rape that woman, so people will draw a line between him and Weinstein. They shouldn't but they will. And I'm worried that even if MLB confirms everything she has alleged, that he'll serve a hefty suspension, but be allowed to resume his career afterward.
What he did was attempt a rape. He failed, thankfully, but he's much closer to the Weinstein end of the spectrum but I doubt he'll be considered as that bad by most people and I think that's a shame.
I think your point is correct, and that's why the team is going to on some level be relieved that this will be handled by the league. If MLB says he can't play, then another team has no incentive to take him on. Of course, this is also made more simple by the fact that he isn't on a huge contract yet (the Twins dodged a huge bullet there).The economics of professional sports makes it really hard for individual teams to punish star players for this sort of behavior. A player like Sano, for example, is worth probably close to a $100 million dollars to the Twins. For a medium market team that's itself valued at ~$1 billion, that's a very significant asset. And they know if they released him tomorrow, another team would pick him up for free.
For star players with large contracts, teams would have to eat a ton of money to cut ties with a player over an incident like this. I'd imagine it's almost impossible to void a large contract without someone being convicted of a crime.