And take this with the requisite grain of salt, but man, his body language looks terrible in all of these videos. He took some heat for poor body language at Washington, but he really looks despondent now.
This is a pretty typical example of his jumper in college- much higher release, and much smoother motion:Should someone his height be releasing the ball that low? Looks like he's shooting from his chest and most anyone could block it.
Jeeze, not great. I hope he can figure it out.
And take this with the requisite grain of salt, but man, his body language looks terrible in all of these videos. He took some heat for poor body language at Washington, but he really looks despondent now.
That he was scout team player of the week?So what was the surprise?
Tough call? There's no way in hell I take that offer. Fultz is Rick Ankiel at this pointIf Philly offered Fultz for the LA/Sac pick right now, would you take it? I think it’s a pretty tough call at this point.
Small sample but...holy shit. That form is just awful. If he ever plays a game this decade, dude is going to get Rondo treatment times infinity.
And take this with the requisite grain of salt, but man, his body language looks terrible in all of these videos. He took some heat for poor body language at Washington, but he really looks despondent now.
He’s a young kid, odds are he will get over this and be ok. But he might not, or, if he does, it might be a recurring issue. I’d probably decline the trade, especially given he’s wasted a year of his deal.Tough call? There's no way in hell I take that offer. Fultz is Rick Ankiel at this point
I can understand FT yips. I can understand 3pt yips in games. I can’t understand what he’s going through right now. He’s messing with his shot like it’s a golf swing. Shooting a basketball just ain’t that complicated.I feel bad for the kid. Imagine being so good at something that everyone decides you should be the first person picked out of all the people in the world your age. Then imagine that you can't get out of your own head enough to even practice normally. I had the yips playing baseball in high school and that was embarrassing enough when I was sailing 50-foot throws from center over the second basemen's head on a single. I know people will say that he's getting paid and that we shouldn't feel sorry for a professional athlete, but man, as a person, that shit must just eat through every fiber of self-worth you have with so much of your identity being tied up in the game. Yikes.
I’d love to know what this feels like and why it’s so difficult to spin out of it. The whole concept seems really bizarre to me, especially for the pros that go through it.I had the yips playing baseball in high school and that was embarrassing enough when I was sailing 50-foot throws from center over the second basemen's head on a single.
If the LA pick conveys I might consider returning it for Fultz and the Sacramento 2019 pick. Might.He’s a young kid, odds are he will get over this and be ok. But he might not, or, if he does, it might be a recurring issue. I’d probably decline the trade, especially given he’s wasted a year of his deal.
This.I feel bad for the kid. Imagine being so good at something that everyone decides you should be the first person picked out of all the people in the world your age. Then imagine that you can't get out of your own head enough to even practice normally. I had the yips playing baseball in high school and that was embarrassing enough when I was sailing 50-foot throws from center over the second basemen's head on a single. I know people will say that he's getting paid and that we shouldn't feel sorry for a professional athlete, but man, as a person, that shit must just eat through every fiber of self-worth you have with so much of your identity being tied up in the game. Yikes.
This goes back several pages but unless there were multiple doctors at a nationally renowned shoulder center involved in a scheme to cover up the yips Fultz did have a shoulder injury at one time (maybe he still does). If you believe in the elaborate scheme then you believe fully in the yips only.I’m truly worried about this young guy every time I’ve seen him shoot since the preseason. This shit just ain’t right. He was fine in summer league. What happened?
Good analogy. His shot is something like Toger Woods' golf swing.I can understand FT yips. I can understand 3pt yips in games. I can’t understand what he’s going through right now. He’s messing with his shot like it’s a golf swing. Shooting a basketball just ain’t that complicated.
Tough call? Even if Fultz turns out to be the player everyone thought he would be, I still think he is a worse prospect than Bagley/Ayton/Bamba/Young. Danny should be laughing all the way to the bank with what he did in that trade.If Philly offered Fultz for the LA/Sac pick right now, would you take it? I think it’s a pretty tough call at this point.
This goes back several pages but unless there were multiple doctors at a nationally renowned shoulder center involved in a scheme to cover up the yips Fultz did have a shoulder injury at one time (maybe he still does). If you believe in the elaborate scheme then you believe fully in the yips only.
So it's....
A. Shoulder Injury
B. Yips
C. Combination of A and B
I'm in the camp of C. His current shot isn't remotely close to what we all saw last winter.
When I was in 9th grade, I had a pretty solid arm for a kid that age. I wasn’t throwing gas, but I could touch the low-70s and had that classic LH curveball that I could spot to both sides of the plate ever since I figured out in 5th grade that topspin made the ball dip. I was fast as hell (I ended my baseball career having never been thrown out stealing, and I tried to steal a lot) so when I didn’t pitch, I played CF, and I was launching 200 foot throws from the OF with no problem that we’re typically right on the money. I remember being at one of those spring showcases with a bunch of HS seniors and the catcher overthrew second base on a steal and I nailed the guy at third when he tried to advance. He had no idea what the hell happened and how I got the ball in so quickly.I’d love to know what this feels like and why it’s so difficult to spin out of it. The whole concept seems really bizarre to me, especially for the pros that go through it.
Didn't I see you the other night at this roadside bar? I was walking in, you were walking out...When I was in 9th grade, I had a pretty solid arm for a kid that age. I wasn’t throwing gas, but I could touch the low-70s and had that classic LH curveball that I could spot to both sides of the plate ever since I figured out in 5th grade that topspin made the ball dip. I was fast as hell (I ended my baseball career having never been thrown out stealing, and I tried to steal a lot) so when I didn’t pitch, I played CF, and I was launching 200 foot throws from the OF with no problem that we’re typically right on the money. I remember being at one of those spring showcases with a bunch of HS seniors and the catcher overthrew second base on a steal and I nailed the guy at third when he tried to advance. He had no idea what the hell happened and how I got the ball in so quickly.
That summer, I had a game where I was playing center and there was a little bloop single over the SS head. I ran in, grabbed the ball, and promptly threw it ten feet over the 2B’s head, where the runner advanced to third because of how bad the throw was and where it ended up. From there on, I thought about throwing over a guy’s head on every throw where I had time to think.
If I had to go in a gap and hit a cutoff heading for third or home, I’d just wind up and unload, but little singles fucked with me like nothing else. I started short-arming the ball warming up, which led to some nasty shoulder problems (muscle imbalance?), to the point where I can barely toss more than 120 feet now and not for very long.
Why do yips happen? Fuck if I know. I’ve had anxiety in other parts of life so maybe this was just the first presentation of it. I was never going to be a pro, but I had enough talent to make it as at least a low-level college player, but I couldn’t even try out because who wants to see a kid who can’t even warm up normally?
So when I see Fultz doing this stuff, I know exactly where he’s at. Do I hope he comes back? Hell yeah, I love seeing good talent ball out. But man, this shit will literally take what you were best at and make you question all this crap forever.
Yeah, I think I'm going down to the well tonight, gonna drink til I get my fill.Didn't I see you the other night at this roadside bar? I was walking in, you were walking out...
And I hope when I get old I don't sit around posting about it.......but I probably will.Yeah, I think I'm going down to the well tonight, gonna drink til I get my fill.
As IK said, that's what they tried to do but at this point, the longer it goes on, the more people are going to openly speculate. For instance: http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2018/01/nba_scout_on_sixers_markelle_fultz_im_like_what_th.htmlI'm not a sports psychologist, and yips weren't really a thing in any sport I ever played, but shouldn't he just be far, far out of the spotlight for awhile? Like take two months off, then start just shooting around his old high school gym by himself? I can't imagine being out there on film with an audience and other players around is any good for him right now.
I think that's pretty much what they did for the fall. Are there any examples of players who actually got over a meaningful case of the yips though? All the baseball ones I know (Ankiel, Knoblauch, Blass) either switched positions or just gave up. You can't really do the former in basketball.
The yips are like an anxiety attack for that one particular action. Being away from it for months won't change his mindset the very first time he goes to shoot a basketball. Itll be there again.I'm not a sports psychologist, and yips weren't really a thing in any sport I ever played, but shouldn't he just be far, far out of the spotlight for awhile? Like take two months off, then start just shooting around his old high school gym by himself? I can't imagine being out there on film with an audience and other players around is any good for him right now.
Yes, thanks I enjoyed reading as well. I would actually consider yanking Fultz for a full shot rebuild from the stance up, and under strict management by a pro. Not sure how this aligns with the sports psychology, but I would think engaging a new and different neural pathway (or as much as possible) might avoid the yips, and his shot is already a dumpster fire.And I hope when I get old I don't sit around posting about it.......but I probably will.
I'm guilty of this as well at times but what fun are life experiences if they aren't shared. Thanks for the post.
I think that's pretty much what they did for the fall. Are there any examples of players who actually got over a meaningful case of the yips though? All the baseball ones I know (Ankiel, Knoblauch, Blass) either switched positions or just gave up. You can't really do the former in basketball.
This is a great anecdote. Thanks for sharing. A lack of confidence is positively crippling. I got the yips in high school throwing from third base to first. I would sail it every time. I just knew there was no way it was going to go right, any time I touched the ball. Analysis is a killer in any activity or sport where you're supposed to perform intuitively.The yips are like an anxiety attack for that one particular action. Being away from it for months won't change his mindset the very first time he goes to shoot a basketball. Itll be there again.
Part of me was hoping the "shoulder injury" was a ruse by the team for his benefit. If he thought that was the issue, they could use it like a placebo to keep him out of his head and away from the yips.
"Yeah, kid, you have this unique shoulder issue that you may not even notice. It's an imbalance that's messing up your mechanics. Let us work on it while we readjust your shot!"
The other real possibility is that he has one distinct shooting method when shooting solo, but it all changes when he gets around any one else. This actually happened with me with basketball. I suck at basketball. Always have. I was tall, athletic...but always just looked awkward playing. Shooting, dribbling, layups, you name it.
In college, I wanted to overcome the awkward, so I'd get up every day in the summer and practice in the empty college gym for 3-4 hours at a whack. Working on my crossover, between the legs cross over, jumpers, layups...Everything. Full speed. I stopped lifting weights and focused only on basketball (and weed) for several hours a day, which brought me from 215lb to about 182lb over a few months.
One day, one of the guys i lived with that played for the basketball team had come up to grab something out of the farside of the gym. I never knew he was there. He and I played ball plenty together, so he knew how awkward I was on the court. He walked over and got my attention, and he looked stunned. He told me he couldnt believe how smooth i looked with the ball in my hand. Said hed been watching me from the other side of the gym for 20 minutes, trying to figure out who I was. Told me, in fact, that i needed to tryout for the team next season. Scoring was never an issue, it just always looked so awkward, I didn't want to submit myself to the exposure.
I was so damn happy. The months and hours of hard work paid off! We shot some hoops and talked for a bit. Messing around, I drove the lane and put up an easy layup. My buddy looked at me confused. "Nah, man. Do it the way you were doing it a few minutes ago." I honestly thought I was.
As it turns out, when I was just fucking around by myself - or in this case, thought I was my by myself - I was out of my own head. Focused on my breathing, the release off my hand, the height on my jumper... The second any other person showed up...it was just gone. Reverted back to the old ways. Some kind of self-conscious, subconscious tick. The fear of looking akward with the ball made me awkward with the ball.
Never was able to really get over it. My friend just couldn't fathom it. For the longest time, neither could I. But it was certainly a thing. For this kids sake, I'm really, really hoping it's not something similar. But seeing the awkward release, the despondent look...I recognize that shit.
WHAT. THE. FUCK. IS. A. SPEEDBALL.Didn't I see you the other night at this roadside bar? I was walking in, you were walking out...
I believe it is a mixture of heroin and cocaine.WHAT. THE. FUCK. IS. A. SPEEDBALL.
That will make you look like a fool, boy.I believe it is a mixture of heroin and cocaine.
Sure, if you could guarantee the pick conveys or Sac is top 5 next year, but I’m not sold on either happening.Tough call? Even if Fultz turns out to be the player everyone thought he would be, I still think he is a worse prospect than Bagley/Ayton/Bamba/Young. Danny should be laughing all the way to the bank with what he did in that trade.
Nick Anderson and free throws to mind. After the 95 Finals debacle where he missed four straight to blow the game, he was fine the next year... then suddenly plummeted to 40% the following season... then suddenly got it back again late the following year IIRC. That was a weird one, as far as the yips go.I think that's pretty much what they did for the fall. Are there any examples of players who actually got over a meaningful case of the yips though? All the baseball ones I know (Ankiel, Knoblauch, Blass) either switched positions or just gave up. You can't really do the former in basketball.
According to Anderson in the must-see 30-for-30 documentary This Magic Moment, (paraphrasing) the dog in him never really regained its bite after that game, even if he eventually refound the FT stroke. Some great, candid insights from him, Shaq, Penny, Dennis Scott et al. on that budding perennial champion that never was.Nick Anderson and free throws to mind. After the 95 Finals debacle where he missed four straight to blow the game, he was fine the next year... then suddenly plummeted to 40% the following season... then suddenly got it back again late the following year IIRC. That was a weird one, as far as the yips go.
Hang on... the yips wrecked your throwing shoulder... so you ended up being a placekicker? I'm not sure whether to call that impressive fortitude or being a glutton for punishment.When I was in 9th grade, I had a pretty solid arm for a kid that age. I wasn’t throwing gas, but I could touch the low-70s and had that classic LH curveball that I could spot to both sides of the plate ever since I figured out in 5th grade that topspin made the ball dip. I was fast as hell (I ended my baseball career having never been thrown out stealing, and I tried to steal a lot) so when I didn’t pitch, I played CF, and I was launching 200 foot throws from the OF with no problem that we’re typically right on the money. I remember being at one of those spring showcases with a bunch of HS seniors and the catcher overthrew second base on a steal and I nailed the guy at third when he tried to advance. He had no idea what the hell happened and how I got the ball in so quickly.
That summer, I had a game where I was playing center and there was a little bloop single over the SS head. I ran in, grabbed the ball, and promptly threw it ten feet over the 2B’s head, where the runner advanced to third because of how bad the throw was and where it ended up. From there on, I thought about throwing over a guy’s head on every throw where I had time to think.
If I had to go in a gap and hit a cutoff heading for third or home, I’d just wind up and unload, but little singles fucked with me like nothing else. I started short-arming the ball warming up, which led to some nasty shoulder problems (muscle imbalance?), to the point where I can barely toss more than 120 feet now and not for very long.
Why do yips happen? Fuck if I know. I’ve had anxiety in other parts of life so maybe this was just the first presentation of it. I was never going to be a pro, but I had enough talent to make it as at least a low-level college player, but I couldn’t even try out because who wants to see a kid who can’t even warm up normally?
So when I see Fultz doing this stuff, I know exactly where he’s at. Do I hope he comes back? Hell yeah, I love seeing good talent ball out. But man, this shit will literally take what you were best at and make you question all this crap forever.
Complete fantasy, but yes, of course you would trade the LAL/SAC pick for Fultz. What would we peg the odds that the pick is a 2-5 pick in 18 or 19? I think Lakers eek out enough wins that they sit in the 6 or 7 spot this year. And SAC pick next year? Who the hell knows.Sure, if you could guarantee the pick conveys or Sac is top 5 next year, but I’m not sold on either happening.
More that I was used to sailing balls over the crossbar in soccer so I tried to turn a weakness into a strength.Hang on... the yips wrecked your throwing shoulder... so you ended up being a placekicker? I'm not sure whether to call that impressive fortitude or being a glutton for punishment.