Should we be talking about the goalie?

begranter

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And Jones's stats are no better than Rask's.
Player A
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Player B
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Look, I like Rask and I certainly root for him, but I have no idea how you can be confident with him in goal for a must-win game.
 

kenneycb

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Player A
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Player B
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Look, I like Rask and I certainly root for him, but I have no idea how you can be confident with him in goal for a must-win game.
I do not know what conclusion I am supposed to reach from that chart or how you got to your conclusion from that chart and not the very carefully selected moments you described early.
 

kenneycb

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It seems we're bastardizing the definition of a must-win game to only mean a game in which the Bruins are going to be eliminated. Instead of every game in the playoffs IMO.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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In an unscientific observation of my FB feed last night, the Venn diagram of people I know to be patently stupid knee-jerk sports fans and those who were anti-Tuukka was pretty much a single overlapping circle.
 

McDrew

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Player A
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Player B
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Look, I like Rask and I certainly root for him, but I have no idea how you can be confident with him in goal for a must-win game.
Hey! Let's arbitrarily take two recent things and use them to extrapolate back over actual evidence!
That's not how statistics works. A sample size of one series is functionally useless in statistics.
 

McDrew

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In an unscientific observation of my FB feed last night, the Venn diagram of people I know to be patently stupid knee-jerk sports fans and those who were anti-Tuukka was pretty much a single overlapping circle.
Its pretty much as if they get their entertainment by listening to people tell them who to get angry at.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Except this isn’t a good conversation. Rask is the Bruin’s goalie until he gets hurt, they get eliminated, or they win the Cup.
And I hate the argument that “you have to play the game to understand,” but when one side of this argument is professional hockey players, coaches, and actual journalists, and the other side is cliackbait trolls and fucking Johnny Burger King (who is also screaming about “blowing the team up” after the 1st period)...i know where stand.

Edit: and Lose- this isn’t a shot at you, I appreciate new threads and ideas, especially when we’ve got a few days to settle down. I just think it’s a played out conversation that is either over for some people, or will never end.
 

Red Right Ankle

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In the 2000-01 season, Brodeur posted an .897 save percentage en route to losing the Stanley Cup to the Avs in 7 games. He "blew" two clinching games (games 6 and 7) in a row and gave up 7 goals in doing so.

In 1998-99, he posted an .856 save percentage and lost in 7 games to PIT in the 1st round and gave up 3+ goals in every NJD loss.

His team had 105 points that season and lost to a 90 point Pittsburgh team that had Jaromir Jagr, Martin Straka and not much else.

Even great goalies (and Brodeur is arguably the GOAT) have bad playoff series and bad playoff games at times. Rask is no different (and he's certainly not Marty Brodeur).
 

Myt1

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A 7 game sample size tells you nothing about a goalie. Rask's career body of work tells you a lot, he's been a borderline great playoff goalie his entire career, and it's silly to suggest otherwise.

However, his skills have declined over the past few years, he's no longer an elite goalie. He's probably an average starter. Toronto shot a little over 10% on the season and did the same this series. I think he's capable of being better but that's a pretty normal performance from Rask. He's certainly good enough to win a cup with, but I don't see him stealing a series on his own. They're going to have to beat teams
Yup. He is what he is. This discussion is more about having this discussion and the people who have this discussion than it is about Rask.
 

timlinin8th

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I love Tuukka. With that said...

Would people revisit the Martin Jones trade? Kuraly and a draft pick - which turned into Frederic - for Jones.

Jones is younger, roughly $1.25m a year cheaper after signing his new contract, and has seemingly performed about the same.

I'm a Kuraly fan, so I'd have still made the deal. But might be a fun thought exercise. Lose Kuraly, but add some salary space and also get some talent/picks for Tuukka.
The problem with this thought exercise is that we can never know what the Bruins would’ve gotten for Rask. This coming from someone who wanted the Bruins to explore trading Rask and keeping Jones in-the-moment... but Jones brought back Kuraly, who I am also a fan of, and Frederic who is a top-rated prospect, so I’m fine with how it all worked out.
 

Stanley Steamer

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I don't think the question is so much whether Rask is or was a good goalie. He is. His record speaks for itself.
The question is to what extent you stick with him, in adversity, going forward. He has been up and down so far, pulled in game 5, and giving up 4 goals in 30 minutes last game. Though clearly not all his fault, I don't think it's preposterous to have considered a switch back to Khudobin at that point in the game. In retrospect, Cassidy's patience paid off, and the team is better for it. Reference was made earlier to Rask's uneven play to start the season, when Khudobin's solid fill-in work seemed to light a fire under him.
Rask is the rightful #1, and deserves to start going forward. But these are the playoffs, and a few of our core players may not be able to sustain this level of excellence for much longer. As such, Rask must play well now, or risk giving his coach, and Joe 6-pack sports fan, reason to doubt.
 

Haunted

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I don't think the question is so much whether Rask is or was a good goalie. He is. His record speaks for itself.
The question is to what extent you stick with him, in adversity, going forward. He has been up and down so far, pulled in game 5, and giving up 4 goals in 30 minutes last game. Though clearly not all his fault, I don't think it's preposterous to have considered a switch back to Khudobin at that point in the game. In retrospect, Cassidy's patience paid off, and the team is better for it. Reference was made earlier to Rask's uneven play to start the season, when Khudobin's solid fill-in work seemed to light a fire under him.
Rask is the rightful #1, and deserves to start going forward. But these are the playoffs, and a few of our core players may not be able to sustain this level of excellence for much longer. As such, Rask must play well now, or risk giving his coach, and Joe 6-pack sports fan, reason to doubt.
60 minutes.
 

Haunted

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Whatever the case he was terrific tonight. It’s going to be a short series if he plays thusly.


It won’t. He’ll be up and down as usual and Tampa will be better. But Tuukka was a brick wall tonight.
 

RetractableRoof

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Anyone with knowledge want to offer some goalie equipment related thoughts/insight?

How often do goalies change pads? Do they replace them w/exact duplicates when they do it in season or in playoffs in this case? Like baseball gloves are they practicing with a new pair to break them in or are there other techniques? Over time do they get heavier with use or not drying out completely? Are the new pads custom Tuukka models or do goalies choose from existing lines? Do they help Tuukka run faster like my brand new sneakers did in elementary school?

Just curious since the network coverage made a point of mentioning his changing equipment.
 

Lupe Whalewatch

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I would venture an educated guess and say the majority of goalies in the NHL do not change to brand new pads during a season, although they will start each year with 2 or 3 sets that will be broken in to their liking...and barring some weird equipment malfunction, I'm guessing no goalie has ever changed pads in between a playoff series.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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Rask had some fantastic saves in game 1. Outside of actually giving up the goal, didn’t let the skate blade issue rattle him.
 

McDrew

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My final thoughts on this.
The level of play on a night for a player is not a bar, its a bell curve. Some nights are better than others, and Tuukka is often good, sometimes outstanding, and sometimes clunky. The thing is, his bad nights, and their frequency are NOT this team's biggest problem. They're about 7th or 8th on the list. He's paid a cap-friendly amount and is a position on this team I'm ok with just staying as is going forward to next year.

The only reason I'd see getting rid of him is if the return is significant, but that is entirely hypothetical, and extremely unlikely.
 

timlinin8th

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Some nights are better than others, and Tuukka is often good, sometimes outstanding, and sometimes clunky.
That is EVERY goalie. The problem is when fans of one team don't recognize this and assume a goalie they see 3-4 times a season is WAY better than the guy they watch 82+ times a season because that opposing goalie stood on his head against their team.

That is why teams keep statistics, they take away the bias. Tuukka is fine. He's not the second coming, but he's not "worst gollie evar" like some mouthbreathers would like to make him out to be. Yes his cap hit may be a bit higher than I'd like but as you said he's far from the biggest problems this team has.
 

cshea

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Rask career regular season save percentage: .920

Rask career post season save percentage: .922

Blaming the goalie is always the easiest thing to do since they’re the last line of defense.
 

Zososoxfan

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If the B's had lost to the Laffs, Tuukka woulda been in for more heat since he played poorly that series. Against the Bolts, he was not in the top 5 biggest problems.

He's a fine netminder, top third of the league without looking (would love to learn how to modify tables on hockey-reference, currently can't put in a qualifier for games played and get salary info on the same page). But a quick look shows that about 10 goalies had 50+ GP and a higher SV% this season.

As the club looks to round out the skaters on the roster, Tuukka is a solid player to have in net. If they had an opportunity to get cheaper in net while netting (heh) a good skater and prospect, I think they would consider it, provided there was a viable alternative for starting goalie.
 
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Myt1

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My final thoughts on this.
The level of play on a night for a player is not a bar, its a bell curve. Some nights are better than others, and Tuukka is often good, sometimes outstanding, and sometimes clunky. The thing is, his bad nights, and their frequency are NOT this team's biggest problem. They're about 7th or 8th on the list. He's paid a cap-friendly amount and is a position on this team I'm ok with just staying as is going forward to next year.

The only reason I'd see getting rid of him is if the return is significant, but that is entirely hypothetical, and extremely unlikely.
He’s about average at this point in his career. He’s tied for third among goalies in salary.
 

FL4WL3SS

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He’s about average at this point in his career. He’s tied for third among goalies in salary.
So what are you implying? Not being a wiseass, I'd like to know. Do you think they should trade him and look for a less expensive option? Go with in-house options?

If he's average, we should be able to play Joe Goaltender and not see any drop-off in team performance next year. Do you agree?