So you're saying they need to want it more, or as much.Good point. Be interesting to see what defensive wrinkles Brown installs. Maybe the 76ers just need to play like a desperate team, even though that is not quite the case ... yet.
So you're saying they need to want it more, or as much.Good point. Be interesting to see what defensive wrinkles Brown installs. Maybe the 76ers just need to play like a desperate team, even though that is not quite the case ... yet.
No, they just need to play better. Didn't mean to mislead you.So you're saying they need to want it more, or as much.
This took me a second... *snort laugh*If I'm Danny, I'd buy low on Fultz.
This kind of ignores when Fultz committed he was not as high a prospect and also that Washington was meant to be better but players like Dejonte Murry left early for the draftDaniel "Scouts Honor" is a kook, but makes an interesting comment about Markelle hiding in the Northwest for a non-competitive Washington Huskie team.
AND If Markelle only put up numbers when it was garbage time thats a big Red Flag.
Bridges would be a nice piece to add. Colangelo definitely has to hit on this pick because he’ll be picking in the 20s from here on out.I scouted Tatum wrong man, Duke sucks.
To hear the sixers were committing to drafting Tatum at three ... Oi
He's just so good and (like Mitchell doing things he never showed in college - esp his speed) damn it.
The sixers need Fultz to bounce back (for sure possible) and get lucky on the sac pick to come out of this.
It's possible, Fultz bounces back and the swap costs a mid to late first. Even this is hardly a disaster for the Celtics. That's a mild win they get something for. That's the best case for the sixers.
Worst case Fultz is never the same and they lose a top 3 pick as well. It sort of speaks to how well set Hinkie left the setup, how many frickin teams can puke two top 3 picks and still have a real shot at being a contender.
I also would LOVE to know what Hinkie thought of the move. As I say I totally got it, Fultz was so legit in college and such a great fit.
But if they end up getting a free agent who can shoot off ball and run pick and roll then oops.
Then again they end up with Kawhi or PG then you can at least see the plan. They had moves to get a stud wing and needed a pull-up/ PNR handler and shooter.
Maybe they get a Bridges at 10 and he's great too.
Can Tatum play the role of DWade?Fultz could be the equivalent of Darko on the early 2000s Pistons teams with Tatum playing the role of Melo
It is rather amazing. I'd love to see a recap of all the deals Hinkie did to drive this treasure trove of picks. What year did he start? Would also like to see his subsequent list of picks. Did he initially call it the process?Worst case Fultz is never the same and they lose a top 3 pick as well. It sort of speaks to how well set Hinkie left the setup, how many frickin teams can puke two top 3 picks and still have a real shot at being a contender.
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LondonSox can do this with more insight but here is my take. Hinkie, a hotshot analytics guy with Houston, arrived as Philly GM in time for the 2013 draft and traded Jrue Holiday to New Orleans for a 2014 Top 5 protected pick and Nerlens Noel. In the Draft, he chose Michael Carter-Williams, a point guard with shooting issues, with Philly's first-round pick.It is rather amazing. I'd love to see a recap of all the deals Hinkie did to drive this treasure trove of picks. What year did he start? Would also like to see his subsequent list of picks. Did he initially call it the process?
The revisionist history is strong here.Meanwhile, Colangelo's odd choice of Fultz with the top pick in the 2017 draft could determine his legacy in Philly.
I was curious too. Pretty good read from B/R on the phrase roots, not so much on the deals (tho that’s all on Wikipedia)It is rather amazing. I'd love to see a recap of all the deals Hinkie did to drive this treasure trove of picks. What year did he start? Would also like to see his subsequent list of picks. Did he initially call it the process?
People were even questioning it at the time due to his fit with Ben Simmons, not because he'd suck. It was an odd pick, not a bad pick.The revisionist history is strong here.
Fultz could write his own history, too. The company line is he's only 19 and can be fixed.The revisionist history is strong here.
Pretty good summary, thanks for putting it together. Three corrections on this part though:The 76ers still have Sacramento's first-round pick in 2019, thanks to Hinkie. They gave away Jrue Holliday, who is still a scoring guard making an impact in the playoffs.
Meanwhile, Colangelo's odd choice of Fultz with the top pick in the 2017 draft could determine his legacy in Philly.
Was Ben SImmons an odd pick too? His team didn't make the NCAA and I believe he skipped any other tournaments.I called the pick odd because of Fultz's one collegiate year with a losing team in the PAC-10. That raised more than a few eyebrows in Philly
I definitely remember people here questioning how good Simmons really would be given his collegiate 'career'.Was Ben SImmons an odd pick too? His team didn't make the NCAA and I believe he skipped any other tournaments.
Holy shit it’s amazing reading that 11 months later.
A reminder of who is worth listening to
Significant defensive improvement over rookie year performance is the rule, not the exception for most 2nd year players. Brown showed excellent man-on-man smothering defense with plenty of blocks, intensity and movement. Where he came up short was in recognizing rotations automatically (ie, without thinking first). That seems to me like exactly the kind of skill where huge improvement is most plausible because it comes with repetition.
I don't see a huge shooting improvement as essential, merely a marginal improvement over 34% on 3pointers. He already showed a dramatic improvement in finishing around the basket between November (bricking layups) and May (catching and finishing reverse layups in mid-air), and his February-March-April shooting numbers are quite acceptable.
Where I'd like to see Brown improve would be in tightening his handle. By the end of his rookie season, he was strictly a lane-filler, backdoor cutter and spot-up 3 pointer shooter. Adding the dribble-drive back to his game would take him from a complementary low-usage offensive player to a multi-threat asset.
Well, it's not the Sixers, but: https://www.theringer.com/2017/6/18/16076942/markelle-fultz-solves-phillys-ben-simmons-problem-c6b989782c29Was it ever articulated by 76er management how Fultz and Simmons would play together?
Markelle Fultz Is the Perfect Partner for Ben Simmons
Looming over the 2017 Sixers draft was the no. 1 pick of the 2016 NBA draft — the point forward Ben Simmons. When you think about fit with Simmons, Fultz was exactly the player the Sixers needed to target this time, and they did what they had to do to get him.
I'm going to put this out thereFultz could be the equivalent of Darko on the early 2000s Pistons teams with Tatum playing the role of Melo
I think the ceiling is higher tooI'm going to put this out there
Tatum will be better than Melo
Not just old Melo, either.
Linked is a preseason article by Tom Moore, who has covered the 76ers for 30 years and tends to mouth the company line. Written before Fultz's shot went MIA, Moore suggests a starting lineup of Embiid, Covington, Reddick, Simmons and Fultz. Saric coming in as sixth man.Was it ever articulated by 76er management how Fultz and Simmons would play together?
I've asked on at least two occassions here (76ers don't return my calls) was a 2-PG offense planned? And if so who really was going to run the offense.
How close do you think they are? Celtics have exposed huge structural problem. Two No. 1 draft picks cannot shoot the ball effectively.The general idea was that Fultz’s shooting would allow him to play off the ball with Simmons and be a secondary ball handler. His mental/physical issues have put a lot of that thinking at risk. This really is going to be a fascinating situation, as there are so many angles at play here.
I would love to know what Fultz’s current trade value is around the league. Can’t be much at this point, which means Philly has to hold onto him and hope he improves but doing so may create a lot of distractions for a team that is close to being ready to compete for a title.
A number of SoSHers, including myself, were Tatum all the way and opposed to Fultz. So, let's not pretend that Fultz was considered a guarantee around these parts.The revisionist history is strong here.
He didn't say Fultz was considered a guarantee, he said it's revisionist history to say that Fultz to the Sixers was an "odd choice". Pointing to a couple of message board posters doesn't exactly counter that.A number of SoSHers, including myself, were Tatum all the way and opposed to Fultz. So, let's not pretend that Fultz was considered a guarantee around these parts.
I think they’ll be ready as soon as next year depending on what they do this summer with the cap space. If Colangelo swings a trade for Kawhi, which I think he should be all over, they vault right into contention. The #10 pick should also yield a valuable piece like potentially Mikal Bridges.How close do you think they are? Celtics have exposed huge structural problem. Two No. 1 draft picks cannot shoot the ball effectively.
I do agree, 76ers have a fascinating situation to work out. Colangelo is not going to trade Fultz. He staked his rep on Fultz when he traded up to get him.
I know that once DA traded the pick the consensus around here was Tatum (there's a poll on this) but from the moment BOS won the #1 pick, almost all of us were on Fultz. http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/the-plan-for-the-1-er-3-overall-pick.19334/A number of SoSHers, including myself, were Tatum all the way and opposed to Fultz. So, let's not pretend that Fultz was considered a guarantee around these parts.
I wonder when, and if, GS will look to move Thompson. To me, he is the absolute best fit for PHI. Offers JJ Redick spacing but without the shitty defense.I think they’ll be ready as soon as next year depending on what they do this summer with the cap space. If Colangelo swings a trade for Kawhi, which I think he should be all over, they vault right into contention. The #10 pick should also yield a valuable piece like potentially Mikal Bridges.
I'll listen to Sprowl on anything he shows expertise on.A reminder of who is worth listening to
He didn't say Fultz was considered a guarantee, he said it's revisionist history to say that Fultz to the Sixers was an "odd choice". Pointing to a couple of message board posters doesn't exactly counter that.
And for the record, searching your username for "Fultz" or "Tatum" doesn't yield any results prior to the draft, and doesn't pull up any posts expressing a preference between them.[/QUOTE]
DM me and I'll send you my emails saying as such. I don't know if I said it here or not.
Mea culpa on how many SoSHers favored Tatum.
That’s not what Bowman was saying. A lot of us did like the deal because we liked Tatum more than Fultz (including myself), but no one was questioning the fit of Fultz with Simmons.A number of SoSHers, including myself, were Tatum all the way and opposed to Fultz. So, let's not pretend that Fultz was considered a guarantee around these parts.