2018 NYFG: How offensive are Opie, the O-line & Odell?

bankshot1

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The New York Football Giants are shaping up to be a shit-show of finger-pointing, second guessing and a lot of bad football this year. And it appears there is no thread. So...

Rather than upset Eli and create a QB controversy, Dave Gettleman hired by NFL royalty, the Mara/Tischs, doubled down on Opie, thinking they had the talent to win it now.

To keep the peace in Mayberry, who revolted when Opie was benched last year, they did not draft the next franchise QB, or trade the 2nd pick in the draft for a package to rebuild and fill and several holes, like the O-line, but instead they drafted a very talented running back. And then they commited to a long-term contract to OBJ, making him the highest paid prima dona head case receiver in the NFL. The PR was this team was an offensive juggernaut, loaded and ready to win.

Poor Opie will make it to Yom Kippur, but may not make it to Halloween if the O-line plays like it played last night. No protection for Eli, no time to let OBJ run routes, not strong enough to open holes for Barkely to scamper through.

So for G-Men fans, kibbitzers, fans of car crashs or schadenfreud share your thoughts, stats, insights, rants or vents, on the blue-bloods of the NFL, BIG-BLUE, the NYFG.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Yes, indeed, nothing like a good rant from him, but what a phony. He was berating callers last week who suggested that the Giants should have drafted Darnold or traded down. "Eli is a proven winner! Why would you draft Darnold only to have him sit on the bench for three years? The Giants could win another championship this year!" I'm traveling and haven't been able to listen, but I take it he's off the bandwagon?
 

dcmissle

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Yes, indeed, nothing like a good rant from him, but what a phony. He was berating callers last week who suggested that the Giants should have drafted Darnold or traded down. "Eli is a proven winner! Why would you draft Darnold only to have him sit on the bench for three years? The Giants could win another championship this year!" I'm traveling and haven't been able to listen, but I take it he's off the bandwagon?
Did he really say they could win the championship this year?

Above, he is cleverly side-stepping Eli and Barkley, arguing that there is no point in discussing them because no o-line = no chance.
 

StuckOnYouk

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They should have traded down and loaded up on picks
Barkley is a hell of a player but I would prefer he not lead the team with 14 catches last week
I thought Solder was good - is it just that he can’t cover up the awfulness of
The rest of the line?
 

SMU_Sox

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Solder got a lot of mixed reviews. I think it’s fair to say he was an average left tackle. He wasn’t spectacular but he wasn’t awful either. Not sure he was worth that contract.
 

Michelle34B

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Solder is way overpaid, New England isn't losing sleep over matching or beating the contract. The Giants are starting a rookie at LG, their RG is learning a new position, and had new starters at C and RT for week three. They missed out on Andrew Norwell, and then signed Solder.
 

bankshot1

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mauf

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Giants’ fans have unrealistic hopes for their team. Looking before the season at the first four games on the schedule (JAX, @DAL, @HOU, NO), the Giants clearly were going be underdogs in all four contests, so 1-3 should be right in line with expectations. The sked gets a tick easier in the second half, so the Giants still might get to 8-8, but 7-9 or even 6-10 ought to be considered a successful season for a team that went 3-13 a year ago.

It’s fine for fans to be unreasonably optimistic, but the Giants’ front office should’ve known better. They had a lot of holes, and they should know they need to address the QB position in the near future. That Barkley pick is going to haunt them for a long time.
 

johnmd20

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Giants’ fans have unrealistic hopes for their team. Looking before the season at the first four games on the schedule (JAX, @DAL, @HOU, NO), the Giants clearly were going be underdogs in all four contests, so 1-3 should be right in line with expectations. The sked gets a tick easier in the second half, so the Giants still might get to 8-8, but 7-9 or even 6-10 ought to be considered a successful season for a team that went 3-13 a year ago.

It’s fine for fans to be unreasonably optimistic, but the Giants’ front office should’ve known better. They had a lot of holes, and they should know they need to address the QB position in the near future. That Barkley pick is going to haunt them for a long time.
I don't think Giants fans are unrealistic. I know scores of Giants fans in NYC and none of them had any hope heading into this season, knowing full well that the team has to rebuild in full. It's not a good team, this is just the reality.
 

soxhop411

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OBJ threw his team and Manning under the bus in an interview with ESPN...


Odell Beckham Jr. and the New York Giants have been searching for answers for their struggling offense entering Sunday's matchup with the Carolina Panthers. In a wide-ranging interview with ESPN's Josina Anderson (that included rapper Lil Wayne) last week, Beckham said he couldn't rule out quarterback Eli Manningas the problem and admitted he wasn't fully content with his role.

Manning has been Beckham's starting quarterback ever since Beckham entered the league in 2014. The two have combined for 38 touchdowns, tied for sixth among active quarterback-wide receiver duos entering Sunday, but they haven't connected for a touchdown this season.

"I don't know," Beckham said when asked if there was an issue at quarterback. "Like I said, I feel like he's not going to get out the pocket. He's not -- we know Eli's not running it. But is it a matter of time issue? Can he still throw it, yeah, but it's been pretty safe and it's been, you know ... cool catching shallow [routes] and trying to take it to the house. But I'm, you know, I want to go over the top of somebody."

Manning has completed 3 of 12 passes thrown 20 or more yards downfield this season entering Sunday. He is 2-of-5 on such throws to Beckham, with both completions coming in the opener. Beckham has been targeted twice downfield in the past three weeks.

It has the Pro Bowl wide receiver questioning whether he is being used in a role that maximizes his potential.

"I haven't been in this situation. I haven't been in the place where I felt like I could really go out and do everything that I'm capable of doing," Beckham said. "I don't get 20 targets like some other receivers, you know."
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24919394/odell-beckham-jr-know-eli-manning-reason-new-york-giants-struggling-offense

more at the link
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Half of me says he’s right, they didn’t pay him that crazy contract to run crossing patterns and short routes; half of me says stfu you just got that crazy contract; half of me says eff Eli. (I’m not sure how to do that math...)
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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As was the decision to fire their coach and unbench their over the hill QB, which probably prevented him from just deciding to retire.
 

RedOctober3829

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I thought the Giants were going to be a good team this year. They seemingly addressed their OL problems with Solder and Hernandez. The defense has playmakers in all 3 levels. Barkley was the wrong pick at #2 but nevertheless he is a dynamic player to go along with OBJ, both Shepards, and Evan Engram. All Eli would have to do is manage the game and not turn the ball over and they should be in the mix for a wildcard or even the division.

But man was I wrong. It is a complete dumpster fire there. Eli is the worst starting QB in the league. Their defense is getting gashed every game. They have the most talented WR and possibly the most talented RB in the league and still have trouble scoring points.
 
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Super Nomario

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But man was I wrong. It is a complete dumpster fire there. Eli is the worst starting QB in the league. Their defense is getting gashed every game. They has the most talented WR and possibly the most talented RB in the league and still have trouble scoring points.
And, despite adding Solder and Hernandez, the OL is still a trainwreck because the other three starters stink. It's a bad team with disproportionate spending in skill players.
 

johnmd20

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And, despite adding Solder and Hernandez, the OL is still a trainwreck because the other three starters stink. It's a bad team with disproportionate spending in skill players.
The OBJ contract will go down as the worst contract in NY Giants history. What a waste of resources. You can't spend that kind of money on a WR, any WR, but a guy like Beckham is brutal because he's so divisive for the team.
 

Montana Fan

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The OBJ contract will go down as the worst contract in NY Giants history. What a waste of resources. You can't spend that kind of money on a WR, any WR, but a guy like Beckham is brutal because he's so divisive for the team.
I took a knee after reading this post. Yes, I’m in agreement. They should have traded him during last season.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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They should have traded him during last season.
I would guess that nobody wanted to take on the combination of cost and baggage in a trade.

I do have to say, however, that its a little suspicious that black guy banging his head into a cooling fan in frustration is a sign that he's a cancer, but when a white guy (I'm thinking Paul O'Neill as the archetype) does something like that, he's a warrior. Beckham has brought a lot of this on himself with his antics over the years, but it does seem like the media are going a bit overboard now looking for evidence of misbehavior.
 
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joe dokes

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Well......Pats got Blount for next to nothing after he walked off the field......
 

bankshot1

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The Giants, with new management, had the opportunity to make some bold moves, and restock the team and start the rebuild for the future, by trading OBJ and the #2 pick for a basket of picks. But instead they IMO made some very questionable decisons all in the belief that this team was a player or two away from being a juggernaut AND they wanted to avoid a QB controversy.

Eli looks cooked and spooked.

Last night in the game thread, someone posted "Barkely Sanders" which was exactly what I was thinking.

Clearly this may be a premature assessment, but the NYFG are so far from being good, Barkley may waste his spectacular skills and the prime of his career, waiting for a team that he can ride into the post-season.

Re: "Water-Cooler" Paul O'Neil---rings forgive a lot of frustration and water-cooler repair bills.
 

johnmd20

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I would guess that nobody wanted to take on the combination of cost and baggage in a trade.

I do have to say, however, that its a little suspicious that black guy banging his head into a cooling fan in frustration is a sign that he's a cancer, but when a white guy (I'm thinking Paul O'Neill as the archetype) does something like that, he's a warrior. Beckham has brought a lot of this on himself with his antics over the years, but it does seem like the media are going a bit overboard now looking for evidence of misbehavior.
It is really unseemly to couch this in racism. How has the history of diva WR's worked out for the teams they have played on? How many vacations did Paul O'Neill take before playoff games? Beckham's problems to the team are far deeper than proposing to a field goal net during the middle of a game. And his contract will become an albatross because you just can't pay one player that much money, as it erodes the cap in a way that is unbelievably difficult to recover from. The color of his skin doesn't change basic math.

Also, baseball is far more individual of a sport than football. I do not recall O'Neill ever questioning his teammates, only himself. Beckham questions everything. Oh yeah, he also literally left the field before halftime last night, when the Giants had one more shot at the end zone. That's indefensible.

Water coolers still get destroyed by all sorts of players in today's baseball, by white, latino, and black players. It's not an apt comparison.
 

joe dokes

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I would guess that nobody wanted to take on the combination of cost and baggage in a trade.

I do have to say, however, that its a little suspicious that black guy banging his head into a cooling fan in frustration is a sign that he's a cancer, but when a white guy (I'm thinking Paul O'Neill as the archetype) does something like that, he's a warrior. Beckham has brought a lot of this on himself with his antics over the years, but it does seem like the media are going a bit overboard now looking for evidence of misbehavior.
I don't think its unreasonable to start there. But I think even a cursory further look dispels the racial angle with OBJ. Even today, whatever the hot-takers are saying about *him*, they are saying that Eli should not be playing professional football anymore.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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The OBJ contract will go down as the worst contract in NY Giants history. What a waste of resources. You can't spend that kind of money on a WR, any WR, but a guy like Beckham is brutal because he's so divisive for the team.
I think I'd rather have the OBJ deal overpriced as it is with one of the top 3 players at his position than the contract Manning signed after the 2015 season. 4 Years, $84M, $67M guaranteed. Compared with Beckham's 5 year, $90M, $65M guaranteed.
 

bankshot1

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IMO Coughlin should have read the riot act to OBJ when he lost his mind against Josh Norman a few years ago, but he got the superstar treatment instead, and has been a clubhouse cancer/pain-in-the-ass ever since. As was once said of a local superstar a long time ago, "he's an all-star from the neck down".
 

johnmd20

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I think I'd rather have the OBJ deal overpriced as it is with one of the top 3 players at his position than the contract Manning signed after the 2015 season. 4 Years, $84M, $67M guaranteed. Compared with Beckham's 5 year, $90M, $65M guaranteed.
Both are obviously horrendous contracts. The Giants should have bitten the bullet and cut Eli after last season. Even if they take Barkley this year, who is incredible, they should have tanked this year. Anyway, they are tanking regardless, so their goal must be a 2-14 season and a high QB draft pick.

Eli is done. They have to move on.
 

dcmissle

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Apology owed to “Mac” — McAdoo — according to Geno Smith.

Francesa should be must listen today with OBJ, this and the season being over.
 

pappymojo

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The OBJ contract will go down as the worst contract in NY Giants history. What a waste of resources. You can't spend that kind of money on a WR, any WR, but a guy like Beckham is brutal because he's so divisive for the team.
I think the correct statement would be "you can't spend that kind of money on a WR, any WR, when your QB is either this bad or this expensive, and you most certainly can't spend that kind of money when your QB is both this bad and this expensive." In short, Eli is the main problem for the Giants from a roster construction standpoint.

As to OBJ's value, according to my informal googling results (really just this link https://www.nflshop.com/top-selling-jerseys/x-249520+z-98608802-3043109587) OBJ is still making the Giants money off the field. I'm sure that's part of the analysis when negotiating a contract with a player.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Apology owed to “Mac” — McAdoo — according to Geno Smith.
I've been saying this to my Giant fan friends since last year -- the decision to bench Eli was absolutely correct, and the decision not to make any moves to address the Giants QB deficiency in the off-season compounded it.
 

scott bankheadcase

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I've been saying this to my Giant fan friends since last year -- the decision to bench Eli was absolutely correct, and the decision not to make any moves to address the Giants QB deficiency in the off-season compounded it.
If they had benched him for Webb, you would have seen only a small amount of pushback. It was that they were benching their supposed hall of famer for Geno Smith, a man that all of New York watched be terrible with the Jets.
 

dcmissle

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“This is now a BAD football organization ..!”

Francesa on epic rant
 

bankshot1

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Francesa's Giants open

https://wfan.radio.com/articles/francesa-giants-have-entered-cleveland-browns-territory



"This once proud franchise has become one of the real laughingstocks of the NFL. The Giants- if you start with the last game in the playoffs from the 11-5 season, and you go 0-1 there, then you go 3-13, and then you go 1-5... the Giants have won four- four!- of their last 23 games. That's 4-19. 4-19 in the NFL is garbage! That is at the bottom of the league! That is Cleveland Browns territory, and that's what the Giants have become."
 

Royal Reader

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The obvious diagnosis is that the Giants brass correctly diagnosed that the O-line blew, but that gave them the cover to ignore that the QB also blows. Thing is, when they went out and splurged in the 2016 offseason, pretty much everyone knew that might get them one run. It did.
 

Super Nomario

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The obvious diagnosis is that the Giants brass correctly diagnosed that the O-line blew, but that gave them the cover to ignore that the QB also blows. Thing is, when they went out and splurged in the 2016 offseason, pretty much everyone knew that might get them one run. It did.
They might have correctly diagnosed the OL blew, but they didn't do enough to fix it. They signed Solder and drafted Will Hernandez, but they let their two best holdovers (Justin Pugh and Weston Richburg) walk in free agency. The plan was journeymen Jon Halapio (a Pats pick in 2014) and Patrick Omameh, plus Ereck Flowers magically becoming good moving from LT to RT, with 33-year-old John Greco and 2017 UDFA Chad Wheeler as the backups.
 

dcmissle

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Their entire offseason had a double-down, in-your-face, petulant quality to it. Our crazy HC, enabled by our dissipated GM, stole the keys, debased our icon — and we broke into the building and set things right. Crimson Tide.

Which is fine, so long as you’re right about the QB not being on his way out.

Nobody can argue with a straight face that they found no QB in last year’s class worthy of the # 2 pick.

The half full part of the glass — they may suck so badly they’ll have a chance to do it again with a top 5 pick.

OBJ with a rookie QB is going to be a blast, I’m sure.
 

Royal Reader

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Their entire offseason had a double-down, in-your-face, petulant quality to it. Our crazy HC, enabled by our dissipated GM, stole the keys, debased our icon — and we broke into the building and set things right. Crimson Tide.

Which is fine, so long as you’re right about the QB not being on his way out.

Nobody can argue with a straight face that they found no QB in last year’s class worthy of the # 2 pick.

The half full part of the glass — they may suck so badly they’ll have a chance to do it again with a top 5 pick.

OBJ with a rookie QB is going to be a blast, I’m sure.
The distinction is that 2018 may have been a historically good QB class, and this looks like a bad one. I couldn't even say who the top prospect is right now. The best QBs in CFB seem to be a guy who will play one more year in college and a guy who will play for the Oakland Athletics.
 

SMU_Sox

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They might have correctly diagnosed the OL blew, but they didn't do enough to fix it. They signed Solder and drafted Will Hernandez, but they let their two best holdovers (Justin Pugh and Weston Richburg) walk in free agency. The plan was journeymen Jon Halapio (a Pats pick in 2014) and Patrick Omameh, plus Ereck Flowers magically becoming good moving from LT to RT, with 33-year-old John Greco and 2017 UDFA Chad Wheeler as the backups.
That’s the thing that confused me with the Giants and I mentioned this more in the game thread for week 6... Manning is toast. He’s been on the decline for some time now (3+ years) and he was not an elite guy to begin with. He’s the kind of QB that needs a good running game because he’s, again, toast. It’s hard to have a running game when that’s your offensive line group. I think had they invested more in the line and less on skilled position players they’d be in a much better position offensively.

We still have plenty of college football to be played but this years QB crop looks mediocre. Herbert is probably the best guy but he might not come out.
 

RedOctober3829

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Giants owner John Mara just now at owners meetings, re: Odell Beckham: "I wish he would create the headlines by his play on the field as opposed to what he says and what he does off the field. I think he needs to do a little more playing and a little less talking."
 

tims4wins

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It's ok guys, easy explanation for cramping: OBJ just doesn't like water

LOLOLOLOL. Good luck Giants. Nice work on that contract