View: https://twitter.com/BAT1STA/status/1196228571485933570Could you (or someone) refresh my memory on this—have seen a couple references to it and can't recall specifics.
View: https://twitter.com/BAT1STA/status/1196228571485933570Could you (or someone) refresh my memory on this—have seen a couple references to it and can't recall specifics.
Actually is interesting that report lays most of the blame on Cora when he is no longer with the team, and goes out of its way to say Luhnow knew little about it and Hinch tried to stop it. Maybe everyone in Houston threw Cora under the bus since he is with the Sox.Right, because everything in a report is always factual. Just ask Ted Wells.
It's hard to read Manfred's comments about Cora and not come to the conclusion that he'll be suspended for multiple years if not banned.Cora may be banned.
Other than to make yourself feel important, what is the purpose of this comment?Right, because everything in a report is always factual. Just ask Ted Wells.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dy9H7b8eO0Could you (or someone) refresh my memory on this—have seen a couple references to it and can't recall specifics.
That really doesn't matter if MLB is using that report for punishment though.Right, because everything in a report is always factual. Just ask Ted Wells.
The reasoning for not penalizing players has more to do with it being impossible to judge whether a player was participating because they felt that their playing time was dependent on following the lead of the rest of the team and (especially) managerial staff.I'd love to know who if anyone backed up Hinch's claim that he "disapproved" of the system, and that he "disabled" the monitors (by what, turning them off??). What kind of weak-ass manager silently disapproves of his players and coaches cheating? If you disapprove, then stop it. You're the manager. If you don't stop it, then you don't really disapprove. Manfred clearly didn't excuse Hinch's failure to, you know, do his f'n job.
But I don't actually buy Hinch's story. Sounds like after-the-fact excuse-making, made possible because Cora is gone, and done to try to mitigate the penalty.
For Cora to be suspended, I think Manfred will want to know that he took some kind of cheating on to the Sox. Otherwise, the part of his reasoning behind not penalizing players who have moved on to other clubs would apply to Cora as well. He'd likely just get a big fine. But if he did cheat with Boston, then he's going to get hammered.
So we'll likely need at least a fill-in. Paging Joe Morgan...!
It'll be fun for a week ...until everyone realizes he can't manage.Pedro?
Cmon, who wouldn't love it?
I suspect Cora was interviewed as well. If this were a he-said he-said and Cora were trying to lay the blame on others, one would think Manfred would have noted a conflict in the various accounts.Actually is interesting that report lays most of the blame on Cora when he is no longer with the team, and goes out of its way to say Luhnow knew little about it and Hinch tried to stop it. Maybe everyone in Houston threw Cora under the bus since he is with the Sox.
Good points, Cora likely was interviewed about this.I suspect Cora was interviewed as well. If this were a he-said he-said and Cora were trying to lay the blame on others, one would think Manfred would have noted a conflict in the various accounts.
The report reads as though Cora acknowledged his role. If Cora was not interviewed, then, yeah, possibly. The report does not say exactly who the 68 who were interviewed were. If we find out that Manfred actually resolved disputed facts without disclosing the he-said/he-said dispute or that Cora wasn't interviewed, then it would suggest the possibility that Cora is being thrown under the bus. I really haven't seen anything from Manfred to suggest that he rolls like that.
My guess is they will line up a manager now and wait for the actual report to fire him.It would be shocking if Cora is not fired...the only questions are timing and who Bloom gets to replace him and anyone else fired along with him.
Nothing anyone can do about this.The more enduring concern I have is how this stink will follow around the 2018 team. The greatest Sox team we ever saw, at least record wise, will seemingly always be referred to in the same breath along with this sign stealing crap.
You sort of wonder how this all played out. If the Commissioner decided early on that no player would be disciplined, I would think the way it could have gone was that every player was told, "there will be no discipline here for you if you answer completely honestly, but if not all bets are off."Good points, Cora likely was interviewed about this.
I'd put my money on this. IIRC, there was a report or MLB statement as the investigation began about people being held accountable for not being 100% truthful in the course of the investigation.If that, or something like it, got the players to roll, then he had everything he needed. Because then they can basically ask the managers questions the league already knows the answer to with enough detail to make the managers know for sure that they better tell the truth.
Yes, I don't have a citation but I read earlier that this is exactly what happened, which is why Beltran's testimony changed drastically from what he had been saying in public about this.You sort of wonder how this all played out. If the Commissioner decided early on that no player would be disciplined, I would think the way it could have gone was that every player was told, "there will be no discipline here for you if you answer completely honestly, but if not all bets are off."
(1) I have real memories that actually happened. That team was SO DAMN FUN to follow, game to game and week to week, certainly mostly based on its overall success but also the personalities and attitudes and narrative arc. Frankly, so was the 2019 team, they just didn't all quite have epic seasons all at the same time.The more enduring concern I have is how this stink will follow around the 2018 team. The greatest Sox team we ever saw, at least record wise, will seemingly always be referred to in the same breath along with this sign stealing crap.
To add to this, MLB is on record that personnel were on hand during the 2018 postseason to ensure that the replay monitors weren't being used for nefarious purposes. So, there is no way the supposed sign-stealing scheme could have been taking place when the Sox rolled the Yankees, Astros and Dodgers en route to the championship.(1) I have real memories that actually happened. That team was SO DAMN FUN to follow, game to game and week to week, certainly mostly based on its overall success but also the personalities and attitudes and narrative arc. Frankly, so was the 2019 team, they just didn't all quite have epic seasons all at the same time.
(2) I also personally know that, barring further allegations, they weren't doing anything that all their opponents weren't also doing, and even that much was actively prevented by MLB themselves when in the postseason. They won that title fair and square.
So my conscience is clean with respect to those memories. If other people want to wring their hands about it, that's on them, I don't feel the slightest bit bad about it. The Cincinnati Reds' 1919 championship banner hangs today, and likewise the banner for the 2018 Red Sox will hang up a century from now.
Probably miss him but after today, they should be resigned to it.Wonder how Red Sox players would react to Cora being fired?
It’s all fun and games when your winning. They will distance themselves from him publicly like he has the plague.Wonder how Red Sox players would react to Cora being fired?
The Athletic reports that MLB had something like 76,000+ emails to wade through, plus some slack coms. Doesn't sound like unsubstantiated "he said/he said" stuff.Does anyone think
Actually is interesting that report lays most of the blame on Cora when he is no longer with the team, and goes out of its way to say Luhnow knew little about it and Hinch tried to stop it. Maybe everyone in Houston threw Cora under the bus since he is with the Sox.
I think the opposite. They need him more than ever this year. Do everything they can to sign him.Is it a prudent idea to explore trading Betts a bit more given that the farm system is likely going to take a hit with draft pick penalties?
Interesting approach by LoMo to rat out the MFY and the Dodgers too. Just not sure if he means back in 2014 they pulled this or recently.FWIW, Logan Morrison posted that he thinks that HOU's cheating started well before Cora was there:
View: https://twitter.com/KyleNYY/status/1216830546803818496
It seems likely Cora will be suspended/fired for his actions with the Astros. Have we heard the Red Sox were cheating to the same extent as the Astros? If not, the Red Sox should not be penalized to the same extent. That said, we'll see what other information comes out.We can probably say goodbye to the 17th pick in the MLB draft this year....
Yeah, to be clear I wasn't trying to whitewash anything, I didn't see that other part until after I posted.Interesting approach by LoMo to rat out the MFY and the Dodgers too. Just not sure if he means back in 2014 they pulled this or recently.
Wonder how Red Sox players would react to Cora being fired?
Well-earned reputation as media-unfriendly. Hard to see that working out in Boston market.Any good reason that Billy McMillon shouldn't be given a shot? Solid MiLB resume and it seems like most of the players who came up through the system played for him at one point.
He was ready to take the Mets job last year, no bigger handicap than working for the Wilpons.Here's a question: If the Sox get hammered in draft picks like the Astros, or worse, does Chaim make a break and quit? Sucks to be handicapped so badly in your first major market role.
Having never gotten an MLB job, I suppose he might be willing to play along and keep the seat warm for Cora just to get his foot in the door (should the Sox decide to go that route).Any good reason that Billy McMillon shouldn't be given a shot? Solid MiLB resume and it seems like most of the players who came up through the system played for him at one point.
Why? They installed personnel to monitor the room in 2018.Suspensions and draft picks aside, seems to me the simplest solution to the electronic sign-stealing problem is to get rid of video replay review rooms. Make managers make review decisions based on what they see on the field and what players say.
Manfred just signed himself up for a tenure filled with wall to wall investigations.FWIW, Logan Morrison posted that he thinks that HOU's cheating started well before Cora was there:
View: https://twitter.com/KyleNYY/status/1216830546803818496
Thank you for this. It won't stop the moralizing but it spells out that these practices are likely way more widespread and enduring than MLB and whitewashers like Costas would have you believe.FWIW, Logan Morrison posted that he thinks that HOU's cheating started well before Cora was there:
View: https://twitter.com/KyleNYY/status/1216830546803818496
Granted that I haven’t followed this very closely, I’m already a Patriots fan so I don’t have the energy to pay much more attention to cheating scandals, but I thought I heard that what we were doing was more akin to jaywalking while the Astros committed murder. Now we’re going to be the subject of some extreme punishment?It seems likely Cora will be suspended/fired for his actions with the Astros. Have we heard the Red Sox were cheating to the same extent as the Astros? If not, the Red Sox should not be penalized to the same extent. That said, we'll see what other information comes out.
They will not.It would have been interesting to see what would have happened to Cora if there were no allegations against the Red Sox.
That would have put the Commish in a difficult spot -- do you punish the Red Sox for something that its manager did before he got there? Even if he masterminded it.
But with the 2018 allegations, none of that matters now. Even if, on the culpability spectrum, what the Red Sox did in 2018 was less pernicious and more closely in line with an "everyone is doing it" defense, it just doesn't matter. The mere fact of some improper conduct while he was here makes it so that the team is screwed.
Henry has to be apoplectic. I wonder whether they will even wait for MLB's findings before they act.
I would agree with you that in isolation, what the Sox did with the replay video feed was small potatoes. Honestly, I think Manfred way overreacted with the Astros punishment, but as it's been noted in the other thread, the gambling connection makes a lot sense. Anyway, ....Guess I’m in the minority — unless what happened in Boston on Cora’s watch is worse than we’ve heard, I’d gladly welcome him back after a suspension of not more than one year, with someone currently on staff handling interim managerial duties. (If Cora’s suspension extends into the 2021 season, however, then I agree the Sox need to move on.)
Stealing signs is gamesmanship. Cora went too far and should be punished; he doesn’t need to me made a pariah. It’s a lot different than betting on games, or even PEDs (though I think the moral outrage over PED use is overblown too).
Not a chance. There are only 30 of these jobs, and only a couple in this kind of market. He has the chance to turn the organization around and I bet he relishes the opportunity.Here's a question: If the Sox get hammered in draft picks like the Astros, or worse, does Chaim make a break and quit? Sucks to be handicapped so badly in your first major market role.
Shocking that the national media downplays any Yankees involvement. Truly shocking.Interesting approach by LoMo to rat out the MFY and the Dodgers too. Just not sure if he means back in 2014 they pulled this or recently.