I don’t believe he ever tested positive.Didn't Devers have Covid?
Are we sure he is at 100% after "recovering"? So much we don't know
I don’t believe he ever tested positive.Didn't Devers have Covid?
Are we sure he is at 100% after "recovering"? So much we don't know
If you're Charlie Blackmon, it makes you hit .500. Too bad he couldn't have gotten those symptoms.Didn't Devers have Covid?
Are we sure he is at 100% after "recovering"? So much we don't know
Pretty much.This season is a throwaway. This year is a throwaway. I’m sure a lot of players aren’t playing 100% because they know this season could be canceled at a moments notice
Also agree on this, and it's making this board less enjoyable to read.This is WEEI-caller level nonsense.
Actually Ron Roenicke is low on my list of culpability for this pathetic season. He just doesn't have the pitching staff, and there's not a thing he can do about that. Blaming him is like blaming the bartender because the bar ran out of beer.Time to can Ron Roenike and put Carlos Febles in charge. It can not get worse.
I'm stealing this.Blaming him is like blaming the bartender because the bar ran out of beer.
It's hardly nonsense at all. You think players, knowing full well that ownership has written off the season by gutting the talent on the team, are going to be as motivated and focused to play well as they would be otherwise? I'm one of the biggest proponents of Sabremetrics on the board, but to dismiss the human element in the game is going far to much the other way. It's quite obvious from the way they're playing this year that among their numerous issues is a screaming lack of focus and effort.This is WEEI-caller level nonsense. You think professional players getting paid millions of dollars are playing poorly because...they're sad a teammate was traded away? I thought saying stuff like this with no actual evidence to back it up was frowned upon on this site. The team, with Mookie and with Cora, started off with literally the exact same record last year. One can acknowledge that this team sucks and is in the process of a rebuild without having to resort to unsupported suggestions that they're playing bad because they're embarrassed about the Mookie trade or whatever.
No one disagrees with this.It's hardly nonsense at all. You think players, knowing full well that ownership has written off the season by gutting the talent on the team, are going to be as motivated and focused to play well as they would be otherwise? I'm one of the biggest proponents of Sabremetrics on the board, but to dismiss the human element in the game is going far to much the other way. It's quite obvious from the way they're playing this year that among their numerous issues is a screaming lack of focus and effort.
Yes, I do, because ultimately their performance is what gets them paid, and in the end - that is what they care about. Not the fans, not the city/team, but the money, so I have a very hard time believing since they know the team will suck, they do not care about their performance.It's hardly nonsense at all. You think players, knowing full well that ownership has written off the season by gutting the talent on the team, are going to be as motivated and focused to play well as they would be otherwise? I'm one of the biggest proponents of Sabremetrics on the board, but to dismiss the human element in the game is going far to much the other way. It's quite obvious from the way they're playing this year that among their numerous issues is a screaming lack of focus and effort.
Having seen how the 2012 team ended their season......I have to disagree. That team didn't care one whit.Yes, I do, because ultimately their performance is what gets them paid, and in the end - that is what they care about. Not the fans, not the city/team, but the money, so I have a very hard time believing since they know the team will suck, they do not care about their performance.
Other teams have dealt with the pandemic and shutdown a tad more positively than this one has. No one doubted that there was a lot of young talent on this team even without Mookie, the problem is that it hasn't shown up this season at all.No one disagrees with this.
But isn't it far more likely that a global pandemic and 4+ month shutdown, followed by this weird no-fans baseball, probably has a hell of a lot more to do with it than the trading of a teammate that happened 7 months ago?
I'm struggling with the logic that the league is employing here. If they are going to use multiple year results to determine draft order citing a 60 game season, why not do the same to determine your playoff teams as well? Shouldn't it work both ways?It's been posted already a few times but it's unlikely (although unknown at this point) that the 2021 draft order will be solely based on 2020 record, it's up to Manfred and probably won't be announced until after the season is done.
"What I do know is that the March agreement between MLB and the MLB Players Association gave Commissioner Rob Manfred the power to modify the Draft order after consulting with the union. I'm going out on a limb here, but I believe the Commissioner's Office has much more to worry about right now than the 2021 Draft.
In a normal year, the Draft order is based on the reverse order of winning percentages from the previous season. With the 2020 season reduced to 60 games, a case could be made for aligning the Draft order with the combined winning percentages from 2019-20, or for doing that but maybe placing extra weight on this year's results. Perhaps we could see the first MLB Draft lottery."
https://www.mlb.com/news/which-dominican-teen-shortstop-will-be-best?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage
Maybe on the margins, but they started last year with the exact same record despite management doing the exact reverse of gutting the team - they pretty much brought everyone back. Which if anything suggests this team is playing a bit better relative to expectations, given the talent disparity on this year's team vs. last year's team. Put another way, if you told me before the 2019 season began that the Red Sox would start 6-13 I'd have said "wow, that's terrible, everything must be going wrong for them!" But if you told me before this season that the Red Sox would start 6-13 I'd have said "eh that's maybe a bit worse than I hoped but not particularly surprising."It's hardly nonsense at all. You think players, knowing full well that ownership has written off the season by gutting the talent on the team, are going to be as motivated and focused to play well as they would be otherwise? I'm one of the biggest proponents of Sabremetrics on the board, but to dismiss the human element in the game is going far to much the other way. It's quite obvious from the way they're playing this year that among their numerous issues is a screaming lack of focus and effort.
They haven't said they're going to do that, that's just Callis guessing.I'm struggling with the logic that the league is employing here. If they are going to use multiple year results to determine draft order citing a 60 game season, why not do the same to determine your playoff teams as well? Shouldn't it work both ways?
I can't disagree that other teams have dealt better. But to pin it on the Mookie trade seems too simplistic. They're also down EdRo and Sale.Other teams have dealt with the pandemic and shutdown a tad more positively than this one has. No one doubted that there was a lot of young talent on this team even without Mookie, the problem is that it hasn't shown up this season at all.
No, but I think the problem with the comparison to last year is that with all the talent still on the team you could much more easily figure "Eh, it's just a slump." Having a superstar around makes everyone more comfortable with the idea that they'll snap out of it.Maybe on the margins, but they started last year with the exact same record despite management doing the exact reverse of gutting the team - they pretty much brought everyone back. Which if anything suggests this team is playing a bit better relative to expectations, given the talent disparity on this year's team vs. last year's team. Put another way, if you told me before the 2019 season began that the Red Sox would start 6-13 I'd have said "wow, that's terrible, everything must be going wrong for them!" But if you told me before this season that the Red Sox would start 6-13 I'd have said "eh that's maybe a bit worse than I hoped but not particularly surprising."
Plus, even if your theory is completely right, what's the real-world impact on record over 20 games from the motivation/focus concerns you're raising? One more win? Two? Would we really be feeling that much better about this team if they were 8-11 right now as opposed to 6-13?
In baseball, a high draft pick is a total crapshoot. You need years of bad play ala Houston to get multiple high draft picks. Not going to happen in Boston (I hope)Look at the positive - we will have a top 3 pick!
Losing Mookie has to hurt the team chemistry but I also think that losing Cora has a negative effect on the young players like Devers. I would speculate that if Cora was managing the team, Devers would not have shown up fat.It's hardly nonsense at all. You think players, knowing full well that ownership has written off the season by gutting the talent on the team, are going to be as motivated and focused to play well as they would be otherwise? I'm one of the biggest proponents of Sabremetrics on the board, but to dismiss the human element in the game is going far to much the other way. It's quite obvious from the way they're playing this year that among their numerous issues is a screaming lack of focus and effort.
I agree with all of this.In baseball, a high draft pick is a total crapshoot. You need years of bad play ala Houston to get multiple high draft picks. Not going to happen in Boston (I hope)
Losing Mookie has to hurt the team chemistry but I also think that losing Cora has a negative effect on the young players like Devers. I would speculate that if Cora was managing the team, Devers would not have shown up fat.
Watching Mookie last night was really depressing. He's not Ellsbury, he's not Andrew McCutchen. He's going to be great for the Dodgers.
Yeah that would have been much better I guess. (sharing sarcasm with you here) I mean, let's keep Mookie and Price, stay over the luxury tax, stink this year anyway in a wacky, surreal season (not that anyone could forsee Covid), and then not have the money to not only keep Betts, but rebuild the team itself.I can't disagree that other teams have dealt better. But to pin it on the Mookie trade seems too simplistic. They're also down EdRo and Sale.
Would people really be happy if they had Mookie, won 25 games this year, and then Mookie left anyway?
Agreed as well. The dropoff from a young, player-friendly, stats-friendly manager like Cora to a mediocre retread like Roenicke is substantial. I don't think it really matters this season, and I was okay with them going with Roenicke even before this season started because we all assumed they'd be bad regardless, but I certainly hope they don't retain Roenicke after this year (unless he goes back to being Cora's bench coach, of course).I agree with all of this.
Joe Kelley's remarks in the wake of his suspension so a deep dissatisfaction with the Astros in part because Cora became a fall guy, and his players don't think it was fair. I think that speaks highly of the way Cora is viewed in the Red Sox clubhouse.
So you're going to sit Devers for Dalbec in order to see if he can be a borderline starter? Or you're going to sit Chavis, who is a better version of Dalbec (better performance at higher levels of minors, already hitting decently in majors, more positional flexibility, same age), when Chavis is actually performing well? I get wanting to "play the kids". But they're already playing better "kids" in this example.Bobby Dalbec is 25, it's time to let him play the rest of this season and find out if he can become a cheap version of Mark Reynolds or not.
Might as well give Jarren Duran a shot too, he's going to be 24 in a few weeks and reportedly looked great in preseason V2.
There's very little to lose by throwing these guys out there, it's not like they are teenagers.
So instead of the better players in Devers and Chavis playing the field and improving their skills there, you would DH them. And then JD plays in the outfield along with Verdugo and JBJ. And I guess all of them DH instead of playing their positions here and there so you can play Duran, a one tool player who stunk at AA last year and hasn't been playing competitively this year to show he's improved. Or maybe you're just going to sit JBJ entirely? None of that makes sense.Dalbec can play first base, third, and DH. Devers can play third and DH (and has been fielding like a DH lately.) Chavis can play second, first or DH. JD can stand in left field, since Benintendi is out.
There is no reason not to play Dalbec and Duran. There's plenty of playing time for them.
They were probably just upset about not bringing Kimbrel back.I'll say this though: last year was WEIRD. They never gelled all season. It was so odd.
The rumor about him going to an alternate site (BC) during camp because he was out of shape was refuted shortly after it came out. They isolated him because of a possible COVID exposure, not for some two day fat camp.I remember Devers talking about it feeling weird not playing when the season should have started, around April. So the claim he's "disinterested" doesn't hold water to me.
What was reported by beat reporters such as Pete Abe is he looked out of shape, again, and was sent to the alternate training site for a couple days in summer camp. And now he's started really slow. It may be related, it may not be as he might just be a chronic slow starter (hello Big Papi), as pointed out in 2019 he had a bad April then.
Two beat writers last night also suggested Cora might be needed to keep Devers in line:
View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1294036158289252364
OK. I guess people have been extrapolating everything because he's looked fat. Such is the natural prejudice in this case.The rumor about him going to an alternate site (BC) during camp because he was out of shape was refuted shortly after it came out. They isolated him because of a possible COVID exposure, not for some two day fat camp.
2012 Pitching numbers Games 105-162 (16-42) IP 511.67 H 550 R 333 ER 314 BB 213 Ks 430 HR Allowed 81 ERA 5.52 AVG GAME SCORE 45.05 WPA AVG -.105There we go. I figured the close of 2012 was close to the bottom of the barrel. Is there an easy way to isolate the pitching/batting numbers?
To be fair, it's pretty much only 1 person here who thinks that.I’m baffled by the bizarreness of the speculation in this thread. People really think that [...] the team trading Betts [...], are why Devers appears out of shape, lacking in focus, and/or just doesn’t care as much??
Ron Roenicke says Sox need to clean up mental mistakes, but adds: ‘I don’t know that that’s necessarily the issue, the focus. I don’t know. Things just aren’t going well.’
Wow I really don't understand where you are coming from at all.So instead of the better players in Devers and Chavis playing the field and improving their skills there, you would DH them. And then JD plays in the outfield along with Verdugo and JBJ. And I guess all of them DH instead of playing their positions here and there so you can play Duran, a one tool player who stunk at AA last year and hasn't been playing competitively this year to show he's improved. Or maybe you're just going to sit JBJ entirely? None of that makes sense.
Face it, barring injuries or trades you're pretty much stuck with this team. The good prospects are in the deeper minors and aren't going to jump to the majors. Dalbec is blocked by better players and Duran is too far away.
Chavis has only played one game this year at 2B for a reason, he's an emergency 2B not a full time guy. His future is at 1B. If Moreland goes, it will be Chavis seeing more time there as they try to figure out what he, the so far same aged yet better version of Dalbec, is going to be.Wow I really don't understand where you are coming from at all.
At this point, why would anyone care about getting at-bats for Jackie Bradley? I love him, but his time here is ending very soon. JBJ has 2 weeks left of his Red Sox career before he is dumped at the deadline for whatever they can get for him-- probably very little, but there is no reason to keep him. He's a free agent after this season and we have nothing left to play for.
Moreland is another guy I like, but he is also gone in 2 weeks for whatever they can get. Pillar and Peraza have played a lot so far, but there's no need for them to play much now either. They are mediocre veterans who aren't going to be part of the next good Red Sox team and this season is a complete tire fire with nothing left to play for.
It's time to see what we've got with Duran and Dalbec because of their ages and because this season is a complete disaster. I don't care if you don't like either guy, they are in the pipeline and some observers think they have potential. There is no downside to giving them playing time now.
There is plenty of room for them to play basically every day after Bradley and Moreland are traded in 2 weeks. They can also play most days before the deadline too, with Chavis playing second base and JD playing some LF, and other guys getting occasional days off.
It's not hard, because this team sucks, and there is nothing left to play for.
It's time to see what they can do. Why are you so adamantly against the idea of giving playing time to these rookies over veterans in this dumpster fire of a season? Either the rookies play well and maybe we have something here, or they suck and we know for sure we don't. It's time to find out.
That is what teams do when they are completely out of contention, unless they are stupid.
I like this approach and I’d enjoy watching the kids. My only change would be to see if there is any trade value to Hembree and Barnes as well. And I would keep JDM.This is the type of team I'd be throwing out for the 2nd half of the season. There is no reason not to play the kids after the trade deadline.
SP: Eovaldi, Perez, Houck, Mata, Brewer (opener)
RP: Barnes, Taylor, Hernandez, Brice, Hembree, Osich, Stock, Valdez
Lineup: Duran, Verdugo, Bogaerts, Devers, Dalbec, Vazquez, Benintendi or Pillar, Chavis, 9th
Bench: Pillar or Benintendi, Arroyo, Aruaz, Plawecki, Lin, Munoz
(trade: Workman, JBJ, Martinez, Moreland for pitching or draft considerations, if possible)
(dump: Brasier, Walden, Godley, Covey, Springs)
I disagree. Roenicke can't be blamed for being stuck with primarily minor leaguers and castoffs for pitchers, but he can be held responsible for the constant stream of mental errors, physical errors, and players looking unprepared and uninterested in being on the field. These are the things that are supposed to be worked on in spring training. The Sox' opponents aren't exhibiting similar problems so it can't be just the shortened and split spring training. When I see things like Brasier making a mental error that leads to an important run in a close game, Devers making far too many errors, barely hitting, and looking like he doesn't want to be there, outfielders throwing to the wrong bases, runners getting thrown out on the bases, etc. I think it goes back to the manager.Actually Ron Roenicke is low on my list of culpability for this pathetic season. He just doesn't have the pitching staff, and there's not a thing he can do about that. Blaming him is like blaming the bartender because the bar ran out of beer.
After Brazier's balk last night I have to agree that I have may have cut Roenicke a little too much slack. In any case I very highly doubt Roenicke will be in charge when pitchers and catchers report to spring training next February.I disagree. Roenicke can't be blamed for being stuck with primarily minor leaguers and castoffs for pitchers, but he can be held responsible for the constant stream of mental errors, physical errors, and players looking unprepared and uninterested in being on the field. These are the things that are supposed to be worked on in spring training. The Sox' opponents aren't exhibiting similar problems so it can't be just the shortened and split spring training. When I see things like Brasier making a mental error that leads to an important run in a close game, Devers making far too many errors, barely hitting, and looking like he doesn't want to be there, outfielders throwing to the wrong bases, runners getting thrown out on the bases, etc. I think it goes back to the manager.
His name is Alex CoraI like Roenicke and I really feel for the guy, but Bloom needs to find the next Kevin Cash, preferably as soon as this 'season' is over.
Chavis started 40 games at second base last year, 43 at first. I think he's pretty bad defensively at second (and everywhere else too) but he needs to be a versatile player to get the most out of him.Chavis has only played one game this year at 2B for a reason, he's an emergency 2B not a full time guy. His future is at 1B. If Moreland goes, it will be Chavis seeing more time there as they try to figure out what he, the so far same aged yet better version of Dalbec, is going to be.
On JDM, he has an opt-out after the year and almost assuredly will use it, given that both leagues will likely be DH leagues going forward. Therefore, I'd trade him now and get a viable prospect for him.I like this approach and I’d enjoy watching the kids. My only change would be to see if there is any trade value to Hembree and Barnes as well. And I would keep JDM.
A 32 year old DH declining each of the past three years, with a .737 short sample OPS this year, in a pandemic in which teams may not have fans next year? I was surprised Mookie got close to his pre-Covid market value, but would be more surprised if JD took that risk. I mean, he declined the same opt out last year, and his market is probably much less now.On JDM, he has an opt-out after the year and almost assuredly will use it,
Agreed. He’s not opting out.I don't think any other team will take on JD's contract at this point. There is no garauntee that the NL will have the DH permanently, and it's very unlikely that he opts-out of the contract.
They will.There is no garauntee that the NL will have the DH permanently