Seriously. If I were as wealthy as Cohen, I might do the same thing.Stunning. But it's only money. And it's only Cohen's money. I respect the boldness. Maybe they'll regret it, but you only live once.
Seriously. If I were as wealthy as Cohen, I might do the same thing.Stunning. But it's only money. And it's only Cohen's money. I respect the boldness. Maybe they'll regret it, but you only live once.
Thing is, has there ever been a "mess" that wasn't ultimately solvable? People have been predicting doom-and-gloom for various franchises due to contracts for the past 30 years. I'm not recalling a single instance where a franchise was 5+ years into a "regret" era (that was due solely to said contracts). A couple years, sure. But teams find a way to mitigate the damage after a while.Yeah, I’m going to love watching this from afar. The Mets could be a mess in a few years but, for now, they have a strong rotation, a fun lineup, and the #1 prospect in baseball playing catcher. Life is good for Mets fans. This is a perfect situation for Senga. He wasn’t the biggest splash so there won’t be any oversized Dice-K pressure on him.
The Tigers are still trying to climb out of their post-Dombrowski hole.Thing is, has there ever been a "mess" that wasn't ultimately solvable? People have been predicting doom-and-gloom for various franchises due to contracts for the past 30 years. I'm not recalling a single instance where a franchise was 5+ years into a "regret" era. A couple years, sure. But teams find a way to mitigate the damage after a while.
The Tigers are still trying to climb out of their post-Dombrowski hole.
I don't follow them closely. How so?The Tigers are still trying to climb out of their post-Dombrowski hole.
$10m per year from 2035-2039.Yeah, the Red Sox will be paying Chris Sale until 2039 or 2040 due to deferrals.
I don't follow them super closely either, but it's not so different from what he did in BOS. Ownership brings in DD to try to go for a quick title, he is very good at adding MLB assets but not so concerned with the long-term health of the organization, and when he leaves, it's not so easy to get back on track. The main example in DET is that he signed Miggy Cabrera to a 10/292 deal in 2014, he put up two more very good seasons and has been terrible since.I don't follow them closely. How so?
I hear ya, but I have a hard time believing that a bad deal for $29M/year is largely why they've been terrible for 6 years running. I get that DD may have stip mined the farm system, but that's different that what I was suggesting.I don't follow them super closely either, but it's not so different from what he did in BOS. Ownership brings in DD to try to go for a quick title, he is very good at adding MLB assets but not so concerned with the long-term health of the organization, and when he leaves, it's not so easy to get back on track. The main example in DET is that he signed Miggy Cabrera to a 10/292 deal in 2014, he put up two more very good seasons and has been terrible since.
I mean, if you're looking for a cautionary tale along the lines of what Cohen is doing specifically, no one in baseball history has really tried this before. The Yankees used to outspend everyone, but there were no penalties back then, and they might have dug themselves into a hole if Steinbrenner hadn't been suspended from the game for a few years, as he wanted to trade every prospect for immediate help.I hear ya, but I have a hard time believing that a bad deal for $29M/year is largely why they've been terrible for 6 years running. I get that DD may have stip mined the farm system, but that's different that what I was suggesting.
Did he actually fail a physical? Sounds more like Giants saw something, tried to renegotiate, doctors disagreed.
That's fair. I just find the finger-wagging about "regret" a bit overheated. I mean, maybe. But I tend to believe there are always ways to endure some short term pain and extricate a team from the worst of contracts.I mean, if you're looking for a cautionary tale along the lines of what Cohen is doing specifically, no one in baseball history has really tried this before. The Yankees used to outspend everyone, but there were no penalties back then, and they might have dug themselves into a hole if Steinbrenner hadn't been suspended from the game for a few years, as he wanted to trade every prospect for immediate help.
The 2019 Nats say hello.Very true: have to wonder that maybe it is a degenerative condition like an arthritic knee for example that the Twins would not have bothered checking on over such a short contract last season, but the issue would have come up for them as well if their offer was agreed upon.
In any case, the Mets do get him for less AAV than the Twins offer and what Bogey signed for. But those last few years are going to REALLY not be worth the AAV if Correa is still in fact anywhere near the organization.
Edit: It may actually be a blow to the Mets long-term success if they win in the first year of this window. Can you imagine sobering up from the victory parade with the elusive "first championship in more than 30 years" and ownership seeing these contracts extending out for 5 years to more than a decade with no greater mountain left to climb? Maybe the quickest fire sale of a WS winning team since the Marlins.
Thank you. The Bonilla jokes are dumb. Paying deferred money isn't a bad thing. The deal may have been bad but not because they deferred a chunk of money for years.I know the story behind Bonilla and why it’s so bizarre but beyond the Madoff and the fact that they bought him out of a contract etc it’s not unusual to paying a player well after he plays for you. The Red Sox have paid Manny about $2 million every year since 2011 and until 2026.
The Reds are paying Griffey Jr about$3.5 every year since he retired until 2024. It’s all over the place, the Nationals even owe Max Scherzer $105m over 7 years from 2022-2028 from his $215 million deal. Strasburg will only be collecting about $28 million each year for 3 years around the same time from his extension a few years ago.
Right. Maybe something like "if you go on the DL for [insert particular condition] for [x number of days] , [this] will be the consequence.Did he actually fail a physical? Sounds more like Giants saw something, tried to renegotiate, doctors disagreed.
Also, wasn’t Miggy’s second extension basically rammed through by Illitch based on pure sentimentality? That one looked bunkers on Day 1, and you can’t really fault the GM for that.I hear ya, but I have a hard time believing that a bad deal for $29M/year is largely why they've been terrible for 6 years running. I get that DD may have stip mined the farm system, but that's different that what I was suggesting.
*edit* Just looked it up and Detroit was 18th in total payroll in 2022. Wayyyy under the cap. So seems like they could spend money now to get better if they choose to.
Howie Rose (mets PBP radio) wins the dayThis might be the most closely scrutinized physical since doctors tried to figure out how a whole Junior Mint suddenly found its way into a patient’s stomach mid-procedure.
I understand the sentiment, but the "team-friendly" part only matters if the Mets are hamstrung if some of the 9-figure contracts don't work. It doesn't appear Cohen has hams to string (or fucks to give) in that respect.I think I’d rather be the Braves than the Mets long term. Atlanta has so much young talent they got to sign team friendly deals.
Machado got 10/$300M with an opt-out after his age 30 season.Also doesn't the fact that they're paying him as a 3B when some of his value comes from being a good SS make this even dumber? This is like signing ARod to play 3B instead of SS, except in this case the incumbent SS is actually the better option.
I don't doubt that he'll be a good defensive 3B. I'm saying that they're paying him as if he's a SS to play a position lower on the defensive spectrum and he's wasting part of his value by playing a lesser position. I don't think the comparison to Machado is all that important. I'm comparing him to Turner and Bogaerts.Machado got 10/$300M with an opt-out after his age 30 season.
Correa got 12/$315M
Machado age 20 to 27: 38.5 bWAR (122 OPS+)
Correa age 20 to 27: 39.5 bWAR (129 OPS+)
Correa is an elite defensive SS with a first class arm. Maybe he won't be Machado good at 3B but he should still be very good.
The Yankees don’t have any either.I think it's legitimately hilarious that there are multiple teams with multiple All-Star shortstops and the Red Sox have none.
Thanks for this info. What Cohen is doing may be unprecedented, so there could be a level of future harm that we've never seen before. But it's not like 8+ year deals are a totally new phenomena. And while some of those have turned sour, I think the "this will hamper them for years" takes rarely turn out to be true. We'll see.Detroit has not helped themselves post-DD. For example, when they recently splurged in free agency, they got a deteriorating Javy Baez and Eduardo Rodriguez, who developed a personal issue. I do think DD left that team in rough shape, but some of their recent terribleness was self-created/bad luck. There's a reason they have a new President of Baseball Ops.
I agree. The Braves still look the better team and it wouldn't not surprise me if the Mets had a sell off at the All-Star break in 2023 or 2024I think I’d rather be the Braves than the Mets long term. Atlanta has so much young talent they got to sign team friendly deals.
You're assuming the Twins made that offer with a real expectation he might accept it. I don't share that view. It was window dressing to sell the fans.The Twins had offered 10/285 before the Giants agreement, and they had his medicals and watched him play all season. Whatever got flagged, it didn’t seem to bother Minn.
The Giants just released this statement from Farhan Zaidi: "While we are prohibited from disclosing confidential medical information, as Scott Boras stated publicly, there was a difference of opinion over the results of Carlos’ physical examination. We wish Carlos the best."
Yeah, if anything they’re a cautionary tale that the “burn it down” rebuilds don’t always go according to plan. Building around Torkelson, Greene, and the Mize-Manning-Skubal trio was defensible - hardly unheard of - and it even made sense for 2022 to be the “pivot” year since they looked good in the second half of ‘21. But last year at least, none of it worked.Detroit has not helped themselves post-DD. For example, when they recently splurged in free agency, they got a deteriorating Javy Baez and Eduardo Rodriguez, who developed a personal issue. I do think DD left that team in rough shape, but some of their recent terribleness was self-created/bad luck. There's a reason they have a new President of Baseball Ops.
Nothing is signed until after the physical. The agreement up until that point is a verbal commitment pending the results of the physical.How do player contracts that are subject to a physical work?
Is it like a home inspection where the buyer basically has an out no matter how non-material? Or is it required that it actually must be something material?
Or is there nothing even signed before the physical? Does the team just get a look before they actually sign something?
I guess this is both a legal question (what do the contracts allow) and a practical one. I don't think any team wants to be perceived as doing a player dirty. In this case, the Giants made a decision that cost the player more than most of us will come close to making in a lifetime. I assume if you do that even if you legally can, you don't risk your relationship with Boras and every other player out there over nothing.
I know that social media makes it impossible, but I sort of wonder why physicals don't quietly happen before the deals are announced. Maybe part of it is that the player wants the deal out there precisely to put pressure on the team not to screw the player over minor stuff.
Yes, Detroit gave out a series of bad contracts because Ilitch was chasing (unsuccessfully) one last championship before he died. They also gave an ill-advised extension to a 36-year-old Victor Martinez. It didn't matter who the GM was, those deals were brokered from ownership. The Tigers extended struggles (and the shortcomings of their GMs) were their inability to replenish the MLB roster with anything of value from the minors for several years. Their payroll really never sent them into the abyss. Now it's as much bad luck as anything with a plethora of young pitching injuries and "can't miss" prospects missing.Also, wasn’t Miggy’s second extension basically rammed through by Illitch based on pure sentimentality? That one looked bunkers on Day 1, and you can’t really fault the GM for that.
I'm not sure that's right. DD was the GM of the Tigers for almost fifteen years, starting in December 2001 and ending in August of 2015. They set the AL record for most losses in a season in 2003, then turned things around and won the pennant in 2006, then retooled, then made the ALCS for three straight years from 2011-2013 and made the playoffs in 2014 before DD's complete gutting of the farm system finally did him in in 2015.I don't follow them super closely either, but it's not so different from what he did in BOS. Ownership brings in DD to try to go for a quick title, he is very good at adding MLB assets but not so concerned with the long-term health of the organization, and when he leaves, it's not so easy to get back on track. The main example in DET is that he signed Miggy Cabrera to a 10/292 deal in 2014, he put up two more very good seasons and has been terrible since.
Just one year earlier, the Giants won the NL West with a 107-55 record, and the Red Sox made it to the ALCS and were two wins away from making it to the World Series, having dispatched the hated Yankees along the way.Bloom and Zaidi are neck-and-neck for the title of team president most hated by their fan base. It's a wild time to root for the Sox with the Giants as your #2 team.
https://theathletic.com/4024383/2022/12/21/giants-carlos-correa-disaster?source=user-shared-articleThe whys of the situation are important, and there will be a lot of time to dig through them, assess blame and direct the anger in an appropriate direction. Right now, though, the anger isn’t nearly as important as the disappointment. The Giants had a clear goal this offseason, and they managed to do the exact opposite. Even worse, they somehow managed to claw through the floor of the worst-case scenario and head straight for the molten core of an existential crisis for the entire fanbase. Somehow, the Giants managed to exceed the expectations of the most cynical Giants fan alive. It’s almost impressive.
It is most certainly not impressive. There are unfortunate turns of events, and then there’s whatever this is. This isn’t the kind of offseason that’s forgotten with a bag of peanuts on opening day. This is the kind of offseason that will be one of the clearest before-and-after demarcation lines in franchise history, regardless of who the bad guys are.
The only way that will be true is if it impedes their financial flexibility in the future. If Cohen really is fine with potentially paying whatever it takes to win, there might not be a number the Mets could spend that qualifies for that condition.Mets are gonna wind up regretting this.
I know, I can't read some of this stuff without laughing:Just one year earlier, the Giants won the NL West with a 107-55 record, and the Red Sox made it to the ALCS and were two wins away from making it to the World Series, having dispatched the hated Yankees along the way.
What have you done for me lately, indeed.
"The Anger?" Jesus - grow the fuck up Grant.Grant Brisbee, my favorite Giants writer, is not doing great.
and there will be a lot of time to dig through them, assess blame and direct the anger in an appropriate direction. Right now, though, the anger isn’t nearly as important as the disappointment