I'm on the same page. Seems to me that if a player has made it to the highest level in the game, they don't need a manager telling them where to be and where to throw.This is probably a dumb question, but how much control does a major league manager have over defense and fundamentals during the season?
I presume they don't have full practices during the season often (or at all?). Can Cora make a big impact? Is this a spring training problem? Should he be giving them more quizzes about different scenarios during batting practice? Is it more a failure of the farm system? Not prioritizing this when making trades and FA signings?
There obviously seems to be a deficiency here, but I just don't know how much of it is Cora's fault.
Similar stories about the Twins under Kelly and then Gardenhire running some serious infield & positioning drills deep into the season relatively close to gametime.There have been stories for years, going back to when Maddon was manager, that the Rays are one of the few teams who regularly take early infield practice and run drills.
In the day and age of the "player's manager," I wonder if it's tougher and tougher to get players to respond well to this.There have been stories for years, going back to when Maddon was manager, that the Rays are one of the few teams who regularly take early infield practice and run drills.
Yeah a lot of these things are basic... "try not to throw the ball over someone's head", "back up the cases", "hit the cut off man" kind of stuff. Is Cora on the hook for that? It's like blaming Joe Mazzulla when Jaylen keeps dribbling the ball off his foot.I'm on the same page. Seems to me that if a player has made it to the highest level in the game, they don't need a manager telling them where to be and where to throw.
Managers as well, no? I mean aren't the managers and coaching staffs responsible for instruction and correcting flaws that they see? When it comes to hitting we always hear about extra time being put in at the cage and in the video room, swing corrections, hand positions, etc... We hear about guys working on pitching mechanics, strength and conditioning etc...Maybe it happens, but I've yet to hear Cora say "Yeah we're going to dedicate more time to base running techniques, fielding drills, situational positioning, cutoff drills etc...". It seems that when it comes to these aspects of the game the usual response is that "We have to get better.". I'd like to hear, "We going to dedicate ourselves to spending a bit more time on the field to reinforce certain fundamentals."Yeah a lot of these things are basic... "try not to throw the ball over someone's head", "back up the cases", "hit the cut off man" kind of stuff. Is Cora on the hook for that? It's like blaming Joe Mazzulla when Jaylen keeps dribbling the ball off his foot.
There has to be some expectation on these guys once they've made the majors.
Could that be a perception aided by them being the team you watch the most/follow the closest? I don't know your viewing patterns so maybe it's not that. I do think sometimes we're too close and simply see this team doing frustrating things that other teams do as well, only we don't see them as often to notice. I mean, there are currently 15 or so teams with similar or worse records that have to be doing some stupid shit to be where they are. They're not all small market, low budget teams that don't have enough talent to be competitive. It's the Mets and Phillies and Padres and Mariners and Guardians (all 2022 playoff teams) that are limping along at or below .500 as well.I feel like the Sox are the only team in baseball (other than the Nationals whenever Natstown was a thing) who constantly make little league mistakes.
The Braves have committed one more error than the Red Sox so far this season. I imagine some of them have been stupid.Could that be a perception aided by them being the team you watch the most/follow the closest? I don't know your viewing patterns so maybe it's not that. I do think sometimes we're too close and simply see this team doing frustrating things that other teams do as well, only we don't see them as often to notice. I mean, there are currently 15 or so teams with similar or worse records that have to be doing some stupid shit to be where they are. They're not all small market, low budget teams that don't have enough talent to be competitive. It's the Mets and Phillies and Padres and Mariners and Guardians (all 2022 playoff teams) that are limping along at or below .500 as well.
Like erroneously concluding that the pitcher has "a rubber arm" or that a hitter "can't hit, he can't hit, he's a whiffer"?I feel like the Sox are the only team in baseball (other than the Nationals whenever Natstown was a thing) who constantly make little league mistakes.
I don't think it is a case of needing to tell them as it is more of a case of needing to practice more. Yes, we are talking about practice. Tiger Woods reportedly practiced on the range and practice green 10-12 hours a day. Even the great players need practice.I'm on the same page. Seems to me that if a player has made it to the highest level in the game, they don't need a manager telling them where to be and where to throw.
While this is undoubtedly true, being a better team the Braves have more of a margin for error than the Red Sox. When a marginal team like Boston makes mistakes on fundamental matters -- pitching, hitting or defense -- well, it just magnifies why they are a marginal teamThe Braves have committed one more error than the Red Sox so far this season. I imagine some of them have been stupid.
I'm with you 100% on this one Teddy. Baseball defense isn't like football where you have intricate blocking schemes, ever changing defensive schemes, precise timing concerns and lots of moving parts. There's only a few of things any defensive fielder can do in any given scenario, and they should know what they're going to do in any of them before each at bat begins. By the time they reach the major league level they should have been in any situation literally hundreds of times. If players are graduating to the major league level and not sound in the basics, it's an organizational failure and not the manager's fault.I'm on the same page. Seems to me that if a player has made it to the highest level in the game, they don't need a manager telling them where to be and where to throw.
So then fuck it? The manager and coaching staff are absolved from attempting to fix flaws? If it's a matter of issues with arm positioning for throwing accuracy, foot work, working with players to find better routes to the ball or proper cut off procedures we just throw our hands up and say, "Not my fault." or should there be every effort made to help the player improve those flaws?I'm with you 100% on this one Teddy. Baseball defense isn't like football where you have intricate blocking schemes, ever changing defensive schemes, precise timing concerns and lots of moving parts. There's only a few of things any defensive fielder can do in any given scenario, and they should know what they're going to do in any of them before each at bat begins. By the time they reach the major league level they should have been in any situation literally hundreds of times. If players are graduating to the major league level and not sound in the basics, it's an organizational failure and not the manager's fault.
Well it’s a mental preparedness thing isn’t it? Yes they all are likely physically similar and know what they are supposed to do but mentally is a day to day, game to game thing which again to me is a management thing.I'm with you 100% on this one Teddy. Baseball defense isn't like football where you have intricate blocking schemes, ever changing defensive schemes, precise timing concerns and lots of moving parts. There's only a few of things any defensive fielder can do in any given scenario, and they should know what they're going to do in any of them before each at bat begins. By the time they reach the major league level they should have been in any situation literally hundreds of times. If players are graduating to the major league level and not sound in the basics, it's an organizational failure and not the manager's fault.
So practice would benefit them?They can practice all they want (which probably isn’t much), but they’ve got a roster filled with guys who are either below average fielders and / or are playing out of position.
Certainly. But I watch a lot - and the teams they play don’t seem to make the same mental errors the Sox do as often. But I definitely have a more critical eye towards the Sox than other teams.Could that be a perception aided by them being the team you watch the most/follow the closest? I don't know your viewing patterns so maybe it's not that. I do think sometimes we're too close and simply see this team doing frustrating things that other teams do as well, only we don't see them as often to notice. I mean, there are currently 15 or so teams with similar or worse records that have to be doing some stupid shit to be where they are. They're not all small market, low budget teams that don't have enough talent to be competitive. It's the Mets and Phillies and Padres and Mariners and Guardians (all 2022 playoff teams) that are limping along at or below .500 as well.
My hunch is there is a coaching/practice deficit that could be addressed to help on the margins.So practice would benefit them?
But some players do improve on D over the years. Raffy and Verdugo are two examples of players who certainly seem to be better this year. The organization deserves some level of credit for their role in thatMy hunch is there is a coaching/practice deficit that could be addressed to help on the margins.
But 90% of the defensive performance is probably baked in already with below average defenders, (sometimes) playing out of position, and a poor fundamental base.
We can blame Cora if we want, and some of that may be justified. But a lot of the issues seem basic and mostly on the players (and the FO who brought in the players).
There's a reason Cora is called the manager and not the head coach. Yes, the coaching staff is there to help fix physical flaws that develop, but aside from yelling at a guy or sitting his ass down there's not much Cora can do if an outfielder rainbows a throw over the cutoff man's head or if a cutoff man doesn't know where he's supposed to be sixty games into the season.So then fuck it? The manager and coaching staff are absolved from attempting to fix flaws? If it's a matter of issues with arm positioning for throwing accuracy, foot work, working with players to find better routes to the ball or proper cut off procedures we just throw our hands up and say, "Not my fault." or should there be every effort made to help the player improve those flaws?
Seriously? You don't see the manager as the team's head coach? So who's the head coach? Who calls the shots when it comes to the day to day on field decision making and putting the team and its players in the best position to succeed on the field?There's a reason Cora is called the manager and not the head coach. Yes, the coaching staff is there to help fix physical flaws that develop, but aside from yelling at a guy or sitting his ass down there's not much Cora can do if an outfielder rainbows a throw over the cutoff man's head or if a cutoff man doesn't know where he's supposed to be sixty games into the season.
A manager's job is to run the game. A coach's job is to instruct. Maybe a manager can determine if a pitcher is tipping pitches and correct that, but if a major league manager has to teach a weak armed major league outfielder that it's important to hit the cutoff man on a routine single then there's something very wrong. Would you expect a medical school professor to have to teach their students basic biology?Seriously? You don't see the manager as the team's head coach? So who's the head coach? Who calls the shots when it comes to the day to day on field decision making and putting the team and its players in the best position to succeed on the field?
You can't un-coach stupid.Seriously? You don't see the manager as the team's head coach? So who's the head coach? Who calls the shots when it comes to the day to day on field decision making and putting the team and its players in the best position to succeed on the field?
First off,your analogy is apples to watermelons. Students don't get to med school without knowledge of basic biology. However, baseball players often arrive to the bigs needling additional instruction. Alex Cora played in over 1200 MLB games over the course of 14 seasons. 1146 of them as a middle infielder and 61 as corner infielder. With that sort of pedigree I would hope that he as my manager would be more than capable of coordinating if not running sufficient cutoff drills. FWIW I've not advocated for Cora to be let go, but if he has the same vision for his responsibilities to the team as you do, perhaps he does need to go because this organization looks to be depending on a very young core of talent in the not so distant future. If Cora's not willing to play some sort of role in their development at the major league level then we're screwed.A manager's job is to run the game. A coach's job is to instruct. Maybe a manager can determine if a pitcher is tipping pitches and correct that, but if a major league manager has to teach a weak armed major league outfielder that it's important to hit the cutoff man on a routine single then there's something very wrong. Would you expect a medical school professor to have to teach their students basic biology?
Cool, but it doesn't address my question.You can't un-coach stupid.
I certainly agree with your conclusion here, but I also think that @Papo The Snow Tiger's analogy of med school is somewhat apt. Maybe "basic biology" is a bit of a stretch, but I don't think you'd have to try too hard to find Year 1 med school professors bemoaning knowledge gaps of their first years. Yes, getting into med school is hard, and you would think that those without the necessary skills and knowledge would get weeded out in the application process, but getting into the big leagues is even harder. Harvard Medical School alone "admits" more each year than MLB!First off,your analogy is apples to watermelons. Students don't get to med school without knowledge of basic biology. However, baseball players often arrive to the bigs needling additional instruction. Alex Cora played in over 1200 MLB games over the course of 14 seasons. 1146 of them as a middle infielder and 61 as corner infielder. With that sort of pedigree I would hope that he as my manager would be more than capable of coordinating if not running sufficient cutoff drills. FWIW I've not advocated for Cora to be let go, but if he has the same vision for his responsibilities to the team as you do, perhaps he does need to go because this organization looks to be depending on a very young core of talent in the not so distant future. If Cora's not willing to play some sort of role in their development at the major league level then we're screwed.
Turner has played six innings at 2B already this season. While Wong obviously could do the job too, there's a simpler option.I think part of the problem is Cora's passive, non-creative approach. Game 1 Saturday while facing a lefty both Hernandez and Reyes started. Why not put Reyes at SS and Hernandez at 2B? That's the game Kike made 2 throwing errors from SS. Game 2 bottom 8th, 2-2 tie, 2 on 2 outs, Kike batting. Why not pinch hit Turner? Yes, it would leave the Sox short an infielder for the 9th, but Wong has played 2nd before both this year and last year and could have again for 1 inning. Obviously there's no way to know if either of these moves would have worked out but what's happening now isn't working either. Kike at SS is a disaster and he's not hitting enough to make up for it.
Yes, that would be simpler. But evidently not to Cora.Turner has played six innings at 2B already this season. While Wong obviously could do the job too, there's a simpler option.
I think the assumption that he's not involved with that stuff is baseless, post-hoc rationalization of "why he sux."First off,your analogy is apples to watermelons. Students don't get to med school without knowledge of basic biology. However, baseball players often arrive to the bigs needling additional instruction. Alex Cora played in over 1200 MLB games over the course of 14 seasons. 1146 of them as a middle infielder and 61 as corner infielder. With that sort of pedigree I would hope that he as my manager would be more than capable of coordinating if not running sufficient cutoff drills. FWIW I've not advocated for Cora to be let go, but if he has the same vision for his responsibilities to the team as you do, perhaps he does need to go because this organization looks to be depending on a very young core of talent in the not so distant future. If Cora's not willing to play some sort of role in their development at the major league level then we're screwed.
Do you think a manager's job is much different than head coaches in other pro sports? What about the rest of the staff?There's a reason Cora is called the manager and not the head coach. Yes, the coaching staff is there to help fix physical flaws that develop, but aside from yelling at a guy or sitting his ass down there's not much Cora can do if an outfielder rainbows a throw over the cutoff man's head or if a cutoff man doesn't know where he's supposed to be sixty games into the season.
So should he be fired because he's terrible at that? Because he really is bad at running games.A manager's job is to run the game. A coach's job is to instruct. Maybe a manager can determine if a pitcher is tipping pitches and correct that, but if a major league manager has to teach a weak armed major league outfielder that it's important to hit the cutoff man on a routine single then there's something very wrong. Would you expect a medical school professor to have to teach their students basic biology?
Eh, I've been to a few White Sox games this year...I feel like the Sox are the only team in baseball (other than the Nationals whenever Natstown was a thing) who constantly make little league mistakes.
I do think there are differences between being an MLB manager and other head coaches. Obviously, baseball is different than other sports. and a manager has considerations that aren't in the cards for head coaches in other sports. In no particular order, baseball is the only sport that I can think of where the usage of a player has to be monitored. In other sports a player should be available if healthy, but in baseball a manager has to monitor, or manage, the workload of his pitching staff. You just can't start your ace every day, and sometimes your best reliever for a given situation may just not be available. A manager also shouldn't start the same catcher in a day game following a night game. About the only similar thing I can think of is a hockey head coach not wanting to start the same goalie on consecutive nights. Also, baseball is the only major US sport that literally plays every day, meaning that there are times the manager may see the need to give one of the best players a day off. Playing every day also puts practice time at a premium. If Bill Belichick sees something that needs to be worked on he can dedicate a day of practice to the issue. If the Red Sox are in the midst of nineteen games in nineteen days stretch would he really want his team out on the field practicing on a hot humid afternoon? Finally baseball is the only major US sport I can think of where there isn't unlimited substitution. If Linus Ullmark has a rough start, Jim Montgomery can pull him for a stretch to get his head together, bring in Jeremy Swayman, and then send Ullmark back out after a few minutes. When a baseball manager makes a change it's a committment. I'm not saying being a manager is any easier or harder than being a head coach, it's just different.Do you think a manager's job is much different than head coaches in other pro sports? What about the rest of the staff?
No, if anything I think Cora deserves some slack because of what he has to work with. He's far from perfect, but the front office deserves a huge part of the blame with the roster construction.So should he be fired because he's terrible at that? Because he really is bad at running games.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TBA/TBA202304120.shtmlI do think there are differences between being an MLB manager and other head coaches. Obviously, baseball is different than other sports. and a manager has considerations that aren't in the cards for head coaches in other sports. In no particular order, baseball is the only sport that I can think of where the usage of a player has to be monitored. In other sports a player should be available if healthy, but in baseball a manager has to monitor, or manage, the workload of his pitching staff. You just can't start your ace every day, and sometimes your best reliever for a given situation may just not be available. A manager also shouldn't start the same catcher in a day game following a night game. About the only similar thing I can think of is a hockey head coach not wanting to start the same goalie on consecutive nights. Also, baseball is the only major US sport that literally plays every day, meaning that there are times the manager may see the need to give one of the best players a day off. . .
I agree. He was brutally honest last night after the game. Earned my respect.No, if anything I think Cora deserves some slack because of what he has to work with. He's far from perfect, but the front office deserves a huge part of the blame with the roster construction.