That works when you can reasonably expect to win 75% of your games.If I recall, Belichick has always viewed the first few regular season games as extended training camp.
That works when you can reasonably expect to win 75% of your games.If I recall, Belichick has always viewed the first few regular season games as extended training camp.
True. But the Pats could easily get to Week 5 at 0-4.If I recall, Belichick has always viewed the first few regular season games as extended training camp. Probably more so now with the reduced time allowed in camp for full contact practices.
I don’t get too high or too low until we get into Week 4 and get a better handle on who plays where, for how long, with who, etc.
That was awesome when they had Brady and could be 4-2 while still figuring out their identity before turning it on for the stretch run, now a slow September could end their season.If I recall, Belichick has always viewed the first few regular season games as extended training camp. Probably more so now with the reduced time allowed in camp for full contact practices.
I don’t get too high or too low until we get into Week 4 and get a better handle on who plays where, for how long, with who, etc.
pretty sure the 9ers know. They have tons of practice tape etcNo one knows. Dude has 130 passing attempts over the past 3 years.
It's hard to say b/c there was so little to see of front line players, but: I'm not wildly impressed yet with the corners. Could be some growing pains, especially if Jack Jones is out (and, according to last night, even if he's in). Depth is good at safety, but not sure about replacing McCourty. I think the OL determines so much and it is a trainwreck of injuries and unprovens. Fingers crossed. Hoping once ALL THE STARTERS are playing across the roster, things will look brighter.Is it the whole team, or just the OL? It seems like the defensive units are quite solid for both now and future seasons. The OL they've run out this preseason is so crazy bad in pass protection though, it's impossible to judge the quality of QB/receiver play. They do seem to do ok in the run game, but giving up a sack on virtually every series is going to kill any chance to win games.
And with as many failed drives, we know for sure that Barringer is a keeper at punter.
Playing late in the last preseason game, you have to wonder about their futures
DT Carl Davis: This one is shocking to me since, if you were to part with a Lawrence Guy, Davis would be the top run-stuffing replacement. Maybe they feel they can get the Two-Gap King onto the practice squad. This makes me uneasy. Not a lot of run stuffers on this roster.
RB Pierre Strong: He needed to play, so it's not all bad. But I'd still rather player JJ Taylor (minus the dumb punt return) than Strong, who has yet to show much.
CB Shaun Wade: Really good in practices, but has yet to transfer to games.
DE Ronnie Perkins: Just hasn't worked out here for the third-round pick.
This looks like a mediocre roster to me but there are enough young guys to keep me interested. The defense has a good amount of talent so that’s the “get off the ledge” angle. The offense is a complete unknown but we do know they’re in much better hands than they were last year.The Pats have started 1-3 in both of Jones season as starter. With this schedule a good start seems imperative. I am just having a hard time getting excited about the season. Jones has never mounted a fourth quarter comeback. He is terrible when pressured and the line is the biggest question on the team. The defense is good but this offense is so blah. Talk me off the ledge.
The AEast schedule is so tough that I figure the Pats are favored in 4 or 5 games but I can’t see that happening to BB. I’m very interested in seeing what type of coaching master class he puts on. Assuming health the pats have the better qb in 2 games (Howell/Richardson) and then Jimmy G and Dimes are the others he might be even with.The Pats have started 1-3 in both of Jones season as starter. With this schedule a good start seems imperative. I am just having a hard time getting excited about the season. Jones has never mounted a fourth quarter comeback. He is terrible when pressured and the line is the biggest question on the team. The defense is good but this offense is so blah. Talk me off the ledge.
If I recall, Belichick has always viewed the first few regular season games as extended training camp. Probably more so now with the reduced time allowed in camp for full contact practices.
I don’t get too high or too low until we get into Week 4 and get a better handle on who plays where, for how long, with who, etc.
That works when you can reasonably expect to win 75% of your games.
I think the "extended training camp" comment is either misstated or misinterpreted. Bill has said that he does use the first few games to evaluate where the team is at, with the intention of seeing what changes, if any, should be made. But that doesn't mean that the first few games are simply shrugged off as not mattering.That was awesome when they had Brady and could be 4-2 while still figuring out their identity before turning it on for the stretch run, now a slow September could end their season.
Stevenson, Ezekiel Elliot, Henry, hopefully a revitalized Bourne, and an interesting draft pickup in Douglas. Disagree that it is bad team building.I am just amazed that they have no blue chip offensive players while having a QB on a rookie contract. It’s bad team building.
I don't think either were expected to be at the level of Gronk or Moss. 900 yards isn't bad for TE1 and WR3 combo, and that was with Bourne firmly in the dog house. Henry was league-average as a TE (15th overall in yardage), underachieving his contract value (tied for 9th league wide), but not by a ton.Elliot is not a blue chip player in 2023. Henry and Bourne are decent players, but not exactly Gronk and Moss. They combined to like 900 yards last year.
Just curious as to what folks think would happen to BB if the Patriots went 5-12 this season? 5-12 would represent his worst season ever as Patriots head coach, which might suggest that it's not all that likely (I'm bearish on Mac Jones and the offense, and still think the Patriots will win at least 7 games).There was an article about every team a few weeks back that had the Pats worst case scenario at 5-12, and best at 10-7. Feels about right, I just don’t see how a team with an OK offense can win games in this league. Hopefully they luck out and play every teams backup QB again this year, but this team hasn’t really had a compelling win against a good team in normal weather in the past three years. Note expecting much at all, and hoping to be surprised.
It is going to be painful watching Pickens go for 1k yds 8tds when we thought that was what NKeal would give us while Thornton spends another lost season on IR. Bill's inability to draft WRs may keep him from catching Shula. Add AJ Brown or Deebo or even Pickens to this team and they are light years better.I am just amazed that they have no blue chip offensive players while having a QB on a rookie contract. It’s bad team building.
So where are these blue chip players supposed to come from? They don't just magically appear and the one free agency where they had the money to spend they got the best players available.I am just amazed that they have no blue chip offensive players while having a QB on a rookie contract. It’s bad team building.
Could have had Mapu in 3rd and Dawand in the 4th. We chose a center, Jake Andrews, instead. We’ll see how that turns out but Dawand is apparently looking good so far. Obviously, hard to really know until the games start.I don't think either were expected to be at the level of Gronk or Moss. 900 yards isn't bad for TE1 and WR3 combo, and that was with Bourne firmly in the dog house. Henry was league-average as a TE (15th overall in yardage), underachieving his contract value (tied for 9th league wide), but not by a ton.
There just weren't a ton of WR options available this off-season, and missing on TT really hurts. Juju was worth the pillow contract, and IMHO, WR talent is not the problem. I would have doubled down on OT, as it's clearly the team's biggest weakness. Pay Andrew Wylie in free agency (he's making $8M, 500K less than the Pupu platter of Reiff and Calvin Anderson) and draft Dawand Jones in the 3rd, and we'd be in far, far better shape. I think BB wanted to prepare for Dugger's departure in free agency, and thinks Mapu is that guy, but it was a reach for a luxury, rather than drafting for need.
Who knows, maybe Anderson turns out to be a steal, but he hasn't played at all. Reiff seemed like a huge reach (old, couldn't start on a bad team), and he's not played well even when he could stay on the field.
I think 5-12 only happens with some crazy bad injury luck, to me this team has a very narrow band of outcomes, can't see them winning fewer than 7 games or more than 10.There was an article about every team a few weeks back that had the Pats worst case scenario at 5-12, and best at 10-7. Feels about right, I just don’t see how a team with an OK offense can win games in this league. Hopefully they luck out and play every teams backup QB again this year, but this team hasn’t really had a compelling win against a good team in normal weather in the past three years. Note expecting much at all, and hoping to be surprised.
Just recently teams have acquired AJ Brown, Tyreek Hill and Davante Adams, all of whom put up monster seasons and two of those guys elevated the level of previously unimpressive offenses immediately. If you don't want to make that kind of deal for receivers that's perfectly understandable, but these guys are available if you want to go grab them. Could have had Hopkins for peanuts as well.So where are these blue chip players supposed to come from? They don't just magically appear and the one free agency where they had the money to spend they got the best players available.
So yeah.
Should a team I keep hearing is lacking in talent be giving up multiple higher draft picks for a WR? If you told me it was going to be for a top LT, I might be interested.Just recently teams have acquired AJ Brown, Tyreek Hill and Davante Adams, all of whom put up monster seasons and two of those guys elevated the level of previously unimpressive offenses immediately. If you don't want to make that kind of deal for receivers that's perfectly understandable, but these guys are available if you want to go grab them. Could have had Hopkins for peanuts as well.
Orlando Brown Jr was available for nothing but money this off-season and could have solidified the tackle spot. And as I have mentioned I don't think the team is lacking in talent overall, it lacks top tier talent on offense, which one of those guys could provide. If you don't have an elite QB, you have to build like the Dolphins (still think they could have made some noise last year were it not for Tua's injury), the Eagles or the 49ers (by the way, they could have been in on Christian McCaffrey as well).Should a team I keep hearing is lacking in talent be giving up multiple higher draft picks for a WR? If you told me it was going to be for a top LT, I might be interested.
Same for McGlinchey at RTOrlando Brown Jr was available for nothing but money this off-season and could have solidified the tackle spot. And as I have mentioned I don't think the team is lacking in talent overall, it lacks top tier talent on offense, which one of those guys could provide. If you don't have an elite QB, you have to build like the Dolphins (still think they could have made some noise last year were it not for Tua's injury), the Eagles or the 49ers (by the way, they could have been in on Christian McCaffrey as well).
Definitely in agreement overall, but I think Hurts has elite QB potential, if he isn’t there already.Orlando Brown Jr was available for nothing but money this off-season and could have solidified the tackle spot. And as I have mentioned I don't think the team is lacking in talent overall, it lacks top tier talent on offense, which one of those guys could provide. If you don't have an elite QB, you have to build like the Dolphins (still think they could have made some noise last year were it not for Tua's injury), the Eagles or the 49ers (by the way, they could have been in on Christian McCaffrey as well).
Additionally, Justin Jefferson was picked 1 pick before us in 2020 draft not to mention the 2019 Harry draft disaster. Getting a top WR isn’t like climbing Everest. Almost every team seems to be able to do it except us.Just recently teams have acquired AJ Brown, Tyreek Hill and Davante Adams, all of whom put up monster seasons and two of those guys elevated the level of previously unimpressive offenses immediately. If you don't want to make that kind of deal for receivers that's perfectly understandable, but these guys are available if you want to go grab them. Could have had Hopkins for peanuts as well.
Over time, Bill has not taken enough swings at the top of the draft for WR talent.Additionally, Justin Jefferson was picked 1 pick before us in 2020 draft not to mention the 2019 Harry draft disaster. Getting a top WR isn’t like climbing Everest. Almost every team seems to be able to do it except us.
I agree.Orlando Brown said he took less money than the Jets offered to go to Cincy. Not clear he would have gone to Pats without a much bigger contract.
That and they haven’t made the right evaluations later on in the draft.Over time, Bill has not taken enough swings at the top of the draft for WR talent.
Yup, many people in the draft game thread wanted Pickens there, including myself.That and they haven’t made the right evaluations later on in the draft.
2019 alone had Deebo, AJ Brown, DK, Diontae Johnson, Terry McLaurin after the first round.
2020 had Higgins, Pittman in early round 2
2021 had Amon-Ra in 4th round
2022 we actually made a pick in TT 2 picks ahead of Pickens, which isn’t looking great
Opportunities are out there and we just aren’t making the right evaluations. Here’s to hoping TT surprises us as some point or Douglas/Boutte become revelations like Jakobi.
There were plenty of good RTs available this off-season if you think Orlando Brown Jr got too much money (which I don't believe he did and the Patriots certainly had both the cash and cap space to sign him with ease). I don't know why we keep talking about the budget for a team with the second most cap space combined in the next two seasons and no big money QB on the books until 2026 at the earliest.Orlando Brown wants a ring, and CIN gives him that chance. He would not have been coming to NE. He also got paid far more than the Pats had budget for, which is why I suggested Wylie.
Edit: luckiestman nailed this
I've got them at 8-9, 9-8, that schedule is brutal, as is their division.I think 5-12 only happens with some crazy bad injury luck, to me this team has a very narrow band of outcomes, can't see them winning fewer than 7 games or more than 10.
I just sent him a DM on instatwitxbookAmazing that a guy as smart as Belichick isn't aware that throwing money and picks at big name wide receivers is the way to championships. Someone should fucking tell him.
These are the top teams by record from last season. Every single one of them has a top receiving weapon that they pay a lot of money to or gave up a lot of resources for.Amazing that a guy as smart as Belichick isn't aware that throwing money and picks at big name wide receivers is the way to championships. Someone should fucking tell him.
I don't think Brown got too much money. I think he made top-of-the-market LT money, which he 100% deserves. He's one of the best in football, and was a free agent. I do think that, for this specific season, the Pats did not have the cash and cap space to make it work:There were plenty of good RTs available this off-season if you think Orlando Brown Jr got too much money (which I don't believe he did and the Patriots certainly had both the cash and cap space to sign him with ease). I don't know why we keep talking about the budget for a team with the second most cap space combined in the next two seasons and no big money QB on the books until 2026 at the earliest.
Good question.At what point is it okay to admit that, for all his brilliance, BB and his staff might not excel at the offensive side of football in 2023?
Interesting, but I have a question about record and WR acquisition success that I’m not sure I know how to answer in my own, but which I think is critical here.These are the top teams by record from last season. Every single one of them has a top receiving weapon that they pay a lot of money to or gave up a lot of resources for.
Buffalo - Diggs
Bengals - Chase/Higgins
Chiefs - Kelce
Eagles - AJ Brown/Smith
Cowboys - Lamb
Niners - Samuel/Aiyuk/Kittle
Vikings - Jefferson
Sure, we can sarcastically toss aside the idea that receiving talent matters because the Patriots have won in the past without it, but the game has changed over the past 20 years. if you don't have an elite quarterback, you better have great receiving weapons if you want to compete at high levels (and even if you have an elite quarterback, great receiving weapons will amplify their excellence). Defense alone isn't going to carry a team to a championship anymore. Offenses are too good and the rules are too skewed in their favor.
The idea that adding one of these guys comes at great cost to the rest of the roster... sorry, I don't agree with that either. They could've trumped the Eagles offer for AJ Brown last year. Instead, they did some draft shenanigans with the 21st pick and spun that into:
- Cole Strange
- Jack Jones
- Bailey Zappe
- Marte Mapu
So instead of top 10 receiver who could help Mac grow as a QB, we have a decent guard, a talented CB who's been a knucklehead off the field in just the one season he's been here, a shitty backup QB with no upside, and a wildcard safety/linebacker hybrid. Is it really that much of a sacrifice to find other solutions at these fairly fungible positions? They wouldn't have needed to pick Thornton at 50, so they could've filled those spots with a second rounder (or trade back for more picks).
The line has sucked for years at this point. The receiving position has sucked since Brady was here. Tight end has been a revolving door since Gronk left. At what point is it okay to admit that, for all his brilliance, BB and his staff might not excel at the offensive side of football in 2023?
Lets try this:These are the top teams by record from last season. Every single one of them has a top receiving weapon that they pay a lot of money to or gave up a lot of resources for.
Buffalo - Diggs
Bengals - Chase/Higgins
Chiefs - Kelce
Eagles - AJ Brown/Smith
Cowboys - Lamb
Niners - Samuel/Aiyuk/Kittle
Vikings - Jefferson
Sure, we can sarcastically toss aside the idea that receiving talent matters because the Patriots have won in the past without it, but the game has changed over the past 20 years. if you don't have an elite quarterback, you better have great receiving weapons if you want to compete at high levels (and even if you have an elite quarterback, great receiving weapons will amplify their excellence). Defense alone isn't going to carry a team to a championship anymore. Offenses are too good and the rules are too skewed in their favor.
The idea that adding one of these guys comes at great cost to the rest of the roster... sorry, I don't agree with that either. They could've trumped the Eagles offer for AJ Brown last year. Instead, they did some draft shenanigans with the 21st pick and spun that into:
- Cole Strange
- Jack Jones
- Bailey Zappe
- Marte Mapu
So instead of top 10 receiver who could help Mac grow as a QB, we have a decent guard, a talented CB who's been a knucklehead off the field in just the one season he's been here, a shitty backup QB with no upside, and a wildcard safety/linebacker hybrid. Is it really that much of a sacrifice to find other solutions at these fairly fungible positions? They wouldn't have needed to pick Thornton at 50, so they could've filled those spots with a second rounder (or trade back for more picks).
The line has sucked for years at this point. The receiving position has sucked since Brady was here. Tight end has been a revolving door since Gronk left. At what point is it okay to admit that, for all his brilliance, BB and his staff might not excel at the offensive side of football in 2023?
That, and:Lets try this:
Buffalo - Josh Allen
Bengals - Joe Burrow
Chiefs - Patrick Mahomes
Eagles - Jalen Hurts.
I think if you were to go down that list which of those teams would swap Mac in as their QB? I guess I go back to the older view of the elite WR as the hood ornament or the last final piece you add to your team to push it over the top. It is what BB did when we got Moss. I think you also assume Mac is going to show tremendous growth, when he came in as a high floor lower ceiling guy. BB built his teams in recent years even when Brady was here around defense, tough running etc. It was the model for our last super bowl.