Wow, somehow I had missed the bolded. A little googling answered how (theirs plus a compensatory plus winner of ROY) but that’s trouble….to quote Reddit ‘welcome to our new feathered overlords’
So....who is the new GM/head of baseball ops?
- Thread starter moondog80
- Start date
- Status
I absolutely love that ROY pick incentive. Sucks that Orioles are the ones to benefit but they deserve it. They stuck by Gunnar when he was struggling in April/May. Yankees did that with Volpe as well but he never quite figured it out.
The DIamondbacks have the same thing, a compensatory one plus they'll get one for Corbin Carroll.
That’s amazing…and I love the ROY pick’s too except I want a second rounder for Casas coming second instead of the nonexistent international draft help
Was John Farrell a big impediment to Dave Dombrowski? Is there anyone among the potential candidates who have the bonafides that Dombrowski did when he was hired? If Dombrowski didn't have the "autonomy" to immediately fire Farrell and re-shape the coaching staff as he desired, is there someone the Sox can hire now who could demand it?
I just think way too much is being made of Cora's job security and it's potential impact on this hiring process.
It's not just that his job as manager is secure, it seems as if he has won an internal power struggle and wants more input on player personnel, presumably to move to the front office in a few years. I'm sure you can see how that might not be ideal for an incoming GM.
At the same time, though, he has one year left on his deal and hasn’t been extended. It’s a weird situation.
Sure, if we 100% buy into the speculation that there was indeed a power struggle between Cora and Bloom and the notion of Cora eventually moving into the front office is more than just Cora wishcasting out loud. I don't.
I'd rather wait and see who gets formally interviewed and eventually hired than worry about hypotheticals.
Dombrowski also didn't have any sort of overall plan he was looking to implement & had the complete autonomy to do away with Farrell whenever he wanted. & apparently a primary reason he let him go after the '17 season was because of a lack of retribution against the Orioles when they hit Mookie.
There wasn't a power struggle. DD had the power, JF didn't, as evidenced by JF getting fired after a 93-69 season.
https://www.providencejournal.com/story/sports/2017/10/11/in-firing-john-farrell-with-little-explanation-dave-dombrowski-puts-pressure-on-himself/18329368007/
But of course, if all the reporting about Cora being untouchable or blah blah blah are completely made up, & the CBO actually has autonomy? Sure, then it's an interesting job for the best & brightest again.
Or they already know whom they want, know that said person is coming and is on board with Cora - as well as the front office staff already in place.
I can see there being a wink / wink; nod / nod with a team that is in the playoffs and not wanting the distraction of this being announced now (ie Josh Byrnes). That's my hope anyway.
I suppose it's possible. If it's a hire from another organization, they will have needed permission and some serious stealthy/ninja skills to have interviewed without anyone knowing.
Yeah, which is why I think it's only at all possible with a team where the other team is in the playoffs and would (possibly) have a vested interest in making sure the news doesn't get out. It'd probably also have to be someone that wouldn't majorly rock the boat of said franchise (which makes me think Byrnes, since he isn't their GM AND isn't their PoBO).
It's doubtful, but it would make sense (ie already having everyone in place and not getting rid of anyone). The only two candidates I can see this working for are Byrnes and Hazen due to their existing relationships with not only FSG but also pretty much everyone in the FO that is staying on board. Then, as @moondog80 alluded to, there is only one for which it would be a promotion and who would also have at least some level of relationship with Cora since Byrnes was the A-GM under Theo when Cora was signed prior to the 2005 season.
It's probably just playing conspiracy theorist (or hopeful thinking since Byrnes is whom I hope gets the job now that he's at least been mentioned), but it would make all the pieces fit together.
Last edited:
Farrell was diagnosed with cancer right around the time Dombrowski joined the Red Sox, so he wasn't going anywhere.
This is a very good point. Theo seems like the most likely next commissioner of baseball, Cherington is running the Pirates and Dombrowski the Phillies, and a ton of Boston FO diaspora have scattered across the Diamondbacks, Padres, Cubs, and so on. Bloom leaves with his reputation more or less intact, and will likely be asked to interview for the next available PoBo opening.
View: https://twitter.com/jaketodonnell/status/1707929983140634754?s=46
Jake makes a good point here. Wrt to the offseason plans that seem to be leaking.
Would not shock me if it turns out to be Romero
Jake makes a good point here. Wrt to the offseason plans that seem to be leaking.
Would not shock me if it turns out to be Romero
Kennedy confirmed they will fill two slots. I get the feeling that Ramiro will be appointed GM with someone like Fuld or Ng above him
Was there a confirmation after he said they are considering one or two hires at the press conference?
Yes there was:
"Team president Sam Kennedy offered a little clarity, telling Tom Caron on NESN’s pregame show that the Sox planned to hire two people: a head of baseball operations and a general manager below that person."
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/09/27/sports/red-sox-getting-ready-transition-one-season-next/
I also don't like the Cora Coup. I feel he went out of his way to make the FO look bad after the trade deadline, and I still feel he undermine Bloom after the Vasquez trade last year. Sox needed to keep selling and instead started buying. I firmly believe we needed to sell this year before the deadline, but Cora was pushing to buy again. I get it, the manager's job is to win ballgames, but I think the organization needed to be more foreword looking.
Here is a blurb from today's Pete Abraham article:
Ken Rosenthal had an interesting note in The Athletic. He wrote that friends of Chaim Bloom “believe Cora was not as supportive of Bloom as he could have been.”
Maybe that had something to do with Bloom getting little in return for Mookie Betts, mishandling the negotiations with Xander Bogaerts, signing an injured Trevor Story, thinking Yoshida was worth $105 million, and making Corey Kluber the big addition to the rotation this season.
That said, Cora and the coaching staff wearing T-shirts with the cartoon character Underdog as a mocking reference to Bloom rightly terming the team underdogs in the playoff hunt at the trade deadline was unnecessary if not insubordinate.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/09/30/sports/sunday-baseball-notes/
Question, since I'm not a subscriber, is the last sentence true? If so, there is no way I want this guy back. He has just as big of a hand in the last-place finishes as the CBO.
Well it’s kinda immature definitely. I just get the impression that he’s a little too chummy with the players. That strikes me as another flag for a potential GM hiring
Definitely true. Chaim allegedly did not take great offense to it . . . or he took the high road.
View: https://twitter.com/TheGregHillShow/status/1694721916526059722?t=zNi0ft-rkE4sd5Oxf5ZQow&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/BriMarieD/status/1693372912760185147?t=inOhTfARZhjHn51CD3WcSg&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1692660336816488540?t=XVZ4T7o-1QTpsDA2T1DKYA&s=19
If you're firing Alex Cora, who are you bringing in that is a clear upgrade on him? I don't see one out there. Cora mixes analytics with old school baseball feel and did it better than just about anybody in baseball during that 2018 run. I would be willing to bet that any executive that comes in would inherit Alex Cora.
They will also get an Alex Cora whose teams have played poor fundamental baseball the past two seasons, which makes you wonder why Cora was unable to make that a point of emphasis.
What's the case (beyond common sense, which I acknowledge) that a manager has an influence on "fundamental baseball?" Is there a particular historical example of a new managerial emphasis on fundamentals transforming a team's play? Or is it just something people say?
edit: cards on the table -- I think the most important thing a manager in Boston can do is protect the roster from the media, and I think Cora mostly does that well. The alternative is Valentinism.
edit: cards on the table -- I think the most important thing a manager in Boston can do is protect the roster from the media, and I think Cora mostly does that well. The alternative is Valentinism.
I have a vague memory of a guy passing through a few years back who did pretty well. Franco, Francis, something like that...
The whirligig of SOSH Cora analysis:
Poster 1: Cora's so great, he inspires his players to play hard and they just love him. Wasn't 2018 the best?
Poster 2: If Cora has this ability, why has he chosen not to use it in the 3 of the 4 campaigns since 2018?
Poster 1: Oh, that's because he had shitty players.
Poster 2: But the players were exactly the same in 2019.
Poster 3: I just want to point out we have no evidence that managers have any influence on how a season unfolds.
Poster 2: Then why keep Cora in particular?
Poster 4: Well, unless you're prepared to do a job search yourself and white-paper each candidate, you shouldn't suggest Cora be replaced.
Poster 2: But what does it matter if he's fungible?
Poster 1: That's right, it does not matter. So Cora FOREVER!
Poster 2: But won't the same approach be most likely to just yield the same result next year?
Poster 5: Connie Mack himself couldn't win with the guys we had this year. In fact, in 2012. . .
All posters: Fuck off Bobby V!
Poster 3: I just want to clarify when I said that managers can't influence seasons, I only meant all managers except Bobby V.
Poster 2: So do they or don't they matter?
Poster 1: They matter. Cora's great gift is that he's both old-school and new school. And the Latin players love him. All the players love him and play so hard.
Poster 2: If Cora has this ability, why has he chosen not to use it in the 3 of the 4 campaigns since 2018?
Poster 1: Oh, that's because he had shitty players.
Poster 6: Hey guys, what do you think of my plan to trade for Ohtani, Soto, Verlander, Scherzer, and get rid of Yorke?
Last edited:
I don't know. Francona managed some great teams, but do we feel like his teams were particularly strong fundamentally? I don't know how to approach that except anecdotally, but, well, Francona was the manager when Manny Ramirez cut off Johnny Damon's throw. He was the manager when Julian Tavarez would roll the ball to first base. His teams were mostly terrible at base running, and often quite uneven defensively.
You might say, well, that's on the particular players in question: and yeah, that's my point.
I guess the question is, "How much of baseball fundamentals are coachable vs. skill?" If the Red Sox were able to extend Betts instead of trading him then does Cora get credit for Mookie's fundamentals?
Also the even larger question of ‘What does a MLB manager actually do?’ in 2023. Lineups? Probably in conjunction with the front office. Pitching moves? Ideally this is more on the pitching coaches. Press secretary before and after games? Yep.
What comes to mind is the old maxim, "If you give players an excuse, they'll take it."
It looks like Cora may have indulged, or at least didn't work hard to stamp out, the players' despondency post-trade deadline the last 2 seasons, arising first with the loss of their "Captain" Vasquez and then the lack of adding some help this year.
I think that there's nuance being lost in the conversation around the new CBO/PBO regarding the difference between whether he/she would want to work with Cora and other org types (and O'Halloran, Romero, etc.).
One option would be for the team to largely remain silent on the player personnel and manager and let those conversations percolate behind closed doors. For one, it could be part of negotiations and wouldn't preclude/deter a candidacy. Second, if Kennedy/Henry feel really strongly about one of the individuals involved, they could discuss the reasons with the potential hire and make appropriate announcements together as a united front. There could be very solid reasons why they don't want to dismantle some of the working pieces of the org and would encourage or even insist that the new person work within some of those constraints, at least in the beginning. But keeping those conversations private would make the decisions seem like the new CBO was a part of them.
The option that the Sox seem to have chosen, however, is for Kennedy at al. to announce that the new CBO isn't making any of these crucial calls and will be stepping into the job in those circumstances. It's weird to me. And for all of the Cora Coup talk, it seems more like Kennedy is the one putting down stakes and trumpeting his control of baseball operations. Not sure why any of us should be psyched about that. Whether some of these cats are the right choice or not is almost beside the point.
One option would be for the team to largely remain silent on the player personnel and manager and let those conversations percolate behind closed doors. For one, it could be part of negotiations and wouldn't preclude/deter a candidacy. Second, if Kennedy/Henry feel really strongly about one of the individuals involved, they could discuss the reasons with the potential hire and make appropriate announcements together as a united front. There could be very solid reasons why they don't want to dismantle some of the working pieces of the org and would encourage or even insist that the new person work within some of those constraints, at least in the beginning. But keeping those conversations private would make the decisions seem like the new CBO was a part of them.
The option that the Sox seem to have chosen, however, is for Kennedy at al. to announce that the new CBO isn't making any of these crucial calls and will be stepping into the job in those circumstances. It's weird to me. And for all of the Cora Coup talk, it seems more like Kennedy is the one putting down stakes and trumpeting his control of baseball operations. Not sure why any of us should be psyched about that. Whether some of these cats are the right choice or not is almost beside the point.
Mookie didn't look like Jarren Duran when he arrived in the majors, he looked like Mookie Betts, the guy who was already teed up to go on a multiyear Gold Glove streak, but I suspect you know that. The point isn't that Cora is responsible for turning the team into a roster full of Mookies, but he is responsible for getting guys to optimize the skills they do have, and in the very least do damage control in all sorts of very basic ways, like hitting the cut-off guy, knocking down the ball to make sure runners don't advance, not running into outs. If this year's edition of the team is really the best Cora and his staff can do in that respect, he might not be the right guy for this roster.
If it's skill to the extent that coaching can't significantly change outcomes, we can simply fire all the coaches in the major and minor leagues.
Phrased a different way, are there other managers or coaching staffs that would have turned this 5th place team into a contender? I think there are signs that Cora and Bloom didn't have the relationship that Cora and Dombrowski had. Cora has been regarded as a top 10 manager in baseball, but so too has Terry Francona. It was probably the right move to let Francona move on after 2011 if he lost the clubhouse. There are signs that point to the Cora/Bloom dynamic being the issue and that likely contributed to the Sox moving on from Bloom. If the Red Sox felt Bloom's vision was more important than they would have moved on from Cora instead.
Okay. But isn’t Duran a pro-Cora example in the managers-shape-fundamentals canon? Cora intervened to make Duran stop screwing with his swing; the coaching staff rebuilt how Duran approached getting his jumps on plays, and he went from unplayable in CF to okay.
I'd also give him credit with knowing his players as well. Last year when Duran played the Tapia ball into an Inside the Park Homer, some managers would have torn Duran a new one but Cora was able to read the room. Conversely, with Verdugo he's been more of a hardass. I imagine both were conscious choices on how to get the best out of each guy.
Oh, I'll absolutely give Cora and staff credit for Duran. He's proof of concept that if you spend time working with guys, most of them are good enough to show some improvement. But that doesn't negate the lousy fundamental play of his teammates. This team stinks defensively.
These guys are pros who've been playing baseball for decades, some of the. Defensively most of them are who they are by the time they get to the big leagues. A good manager cannot turn bad defensive players magically into good ones. He can't cure the yips for Kike or get Devers to focus at third base for him. He can't magically turn Casas into a lithe John Olerud. A manager can certainly have some effect but I don't know what he could have done to reverse the train wreck.
I'll admit I'm completely agnostic about the effect of managers on this kind of thing but I lean towards thinking it's on the players for being as good as they are and the GM for putting that team on the field.
So Jarren Duran thought some thoughts on his own and improved a bunch because he really wanted it? As @Rovin Romine noted above, let's just sack all the coaches then. Certainly some of what the FO acquires from the scrapheap comes with well-known shortcomings, but it's on Cora to get Casas's glove in the same time zone as his bat.
- Status