The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

j44thor · Nov 5, 2023

Kenny F'ing Powers said:
The mental lapses are absolutely tragic to me. The gameplan and offensive stuff just doesn't concern me as much. He's not calling the offense, Obrien is. It's why he was brought in. And we have no idea what the ceiling of this offense is with Mac Jones at QB.

It always kills me when Mac goes on his one drive a game where he makes good decisions and good throws. The offense looks like a real NFL offense, and suddenly people forget how "horrible" the line and receivers are. But in the other 95% of his shitastic game, well, what is Mac supposed to do with this terrible tram around him!??!

Not throw rainbow passes would be a nice start. He can't throw the ball on a line. That is his fatal flaw. I was a Mac supporter up until a few games ago but even when he has time he throws off his back foot, even when WR are wide ass open he tries stupid touch passes instead of putting the ball on a line. Sure the WRs drop more than you would like though not egregiously compared to other average WR corps but the bottom line is Mac can't make all the throws an NFL QB needs to make, at least not this current version. He was a better QB as a rookie than he is today both arm strength and decision making. It is puzzling to see someone go so far backwards as Mac has.

Kenny F'ing Powers · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
Gonzalez and…..who else is missing at the CB position?

Jonathan Jones played
Jack Jones played
JC Jackson played

Who are the other two “top” missing CBs?

Marcus Jones finished as a top 2 outside corner for them last season, he's done for the season. Jonathan Jones missed 3 games so far. Jack has only played in 2 games. The only corner to play in all 9 games is Myles fucking Bryant. The secondary has no cohesion.

Petagine in a Bottle · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
Because smart people can learn from their mistakes, and Bill is a smart guy?

So we should have confidence in BB turning this thing around, simply because he’s a smart guy? I mean, we were told this year was gonna be great because of all the coaching changes and it’s been a complete and utter disaster from the get go. It doesn’t matter what we think, but is this season going as Kraft expected? If not, he may be a little reluctant to open up the purse strings for more underwhelming additions by the same decision maker whose recent track record isn’t great.

Bill Belichick has done amazing things for this organization and will be fondly remembered forever- but he’s not the only smart guy in the NFL.

johnmd20 · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
Are we going to go through this all over again? Really?

With Brady, Belichick has a .770 winning percentage. Without him, it's .450.

Huge sample sized on both sides and that is a massive difference. Yes, Belichick was carried by Brady more than Brady being carried by Belichick.

Bill was a great coach. He's still a defensive genius. But the offense is completely toothless and has been so since Brady left.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Marcus Jones finished as a top 2 outside corner for them last season, he's done for the season. Jonathan Jones missed 3 games so far. Jack has only played in 2 games. The only corner to play in all 9 games is Myles fucking Bryant. The secondary has no cohesion.

Marcus Jones is not one of their top CBs. He’s fine but he’s not one of their best.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

johnmd20 said:
With Brady, Belichick has a .770 winning percentage. Without him, it's .450.

Huge sample sized on both sides and that is a massive difference. Yes, Belichick was carried by Brady more than Brady being carried by Belichick.

Bill was a great coach. He's still a defensive genius. But the offense is completely toothless and has been so since Brady left.

So you think that Belichick isn’t smart because he has a worse record without the GOAT QB than he did with him?

NickEsasky · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
So you think that Belichick isn’t smart because he has a worse record without the GOAT QB than he did with him?

I think it just means we shouldn’t blindly have a IBWT mentality any more.

johnmd20 · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
So you think that Belichick isn’t smart because he has a worse record without the GOAT QB than he did with him?

I said he was a great coach and a defensive genius. I literally used the word genius.

I mean, how can you read the above and say I said Belichick wasn't smart? That said, he's a good coach, not a great one. His offense stinks and it is getting worse every year.

And he doesn't have a worse record without Brady. He has a SIGNIFICANTLY worse record without Brady. Aren't you a numbers guy? 770 versus 450. He's below 500 without Brady in like 150 games.

Kenny F'ing Powers · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
Marcus Jones is not one of their top CBs. He’s fine but he’s not one of their best.

he finished his rookie season as a starter the last handful of games and was ranked 3rd in coverage on last year's team according to PFF (caveats and all). Gonzalez bumped him down a spot, but once Gonzalez was out, he was an important piece for them.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

NickEsasky said:
I think it just means we shouldn’t blindly have a IBWT mentality any more.

That’s fine. That’s worlds different from essentially claiming that he isn’t smart.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

johnmd20 said:
I said he was a great coach and a defensive genius. I literally used the word genius.

I mean, how can you read the above and say I said Belichick wasn't smart? That said, he's a good coach, not a great one. His offense stinks and it is getting worse every year.

And he doesn't have a worse record without Brady. He has a SIGNIFICANTLY worse record without Brady. Aren't you a numbers guy? 770 versus 450. He's below 500 without Brady in like 150 games.

I got you mixed up with a different poster. My bad.

NickEsasky · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
That’s fine. That’s worlds different from essentially claiming that he isn’t smart.

Agreed. The hyperbole was over the top.

E5 Yaz · Nov 5, 2023

So, does Mac get one more week, then they have two weeks to prepare Zappe or Grier ready to start? With the Germany travel and all, might not make sense to start someone else against the Colts

Arroyoyo · Nov 5, 2023

He’s gotta be finishing the season.

8slim · Nov 5, 2023

NickEsasky said:
I think it just means we shouldn’t blindly have a IBWT mentality any more.

Precisely.

What Bill did in 2001, or 2007, or 2014, or even 2018 is pretty much irrelevant at this point.

He’s now 27-31 since 2020. And needless to say, he’s trending down. He’s blown a slew of personnel decisions over that stretch. There’s a bunch of former Pats playing better elsewhere as we speak — that almost never used to happen.

But to get on topic of this thread, I imagine these are the last few weeks we’ll have to kick Mac Jones around. He can’t be back next season.

DennyDoyle'sBoil · Nov 5, 2023

E5 Yaz said:
So, does Mac get one more week, then they have two weeks to prepare Zappe or Grier ready to start? With the Germany travel and all, might not make sense to start someone else against the Colts

I kind of feel like Bill is not overthinking this. Mac is our best QB. Our best QB will start.

It sucks that our best QB is bad, but he is the best we have.

E5 Yaz · Nov 5, 2023

DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
I kind of feel like Bill is not overthinking this. Mac is our best QB. Our best QB will start.

It sucks that our best QB is bad, but he is the best we have.

Is that on BB the coach, or BB the GM?

DennyDoyle'sBoil · Nov 5, 2023

E5 Yaz said:
Is that on BB the coach, or BB the GM?

Who knows, right? Mac at 15 seemed like a pick that a team that needs a QB needs to make. Beyond that, it is the supporting cast issue we have debated for two years. Bill the GM is responsible for the supporting cast, but the answer to the question may be unknowable unless and until Mac gets a chance with another team.

j44thor · Nov 5, 2023

DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
I kind of feel like Bill is not overthinking this. Mac is our best QB. Our best QB will start.

It sucks that our best QB is bad, but he is the best we have.

If he is the best QB NE can find then the GM needs to be fired. I find it hard to believe there aren't PS QBs that can do what Mac has done which is score only 17pts vs. one of the worst Def in the NFL who got measurably worse by trading away their top 2 DL. This team is struggling at home against bad teams, how much worse can it get?

E5 Yaz · Nov 5, 2023

j44thor said:
... how much worse can it get?

We'll know when they play the NYG

ShaneTrot · Nov 5, 2023

Howell made some throws that Mac just cannot make. He was inconsistent but Howell threw some beautiful deep balls and deep outs. Mac had one really excellent throw today, the TD to Henry, otherwise it’s a ball off target or it’s just a floater with no velocity. a

johnmd20 · Nov 5, 2023

ShaneTrot said:
Howell made some throws that Mac just cannot make. He was inconsistent but Howell threw some beautiful deep balls and deep outs. Mac had one really excellent throw today, the TD to Henry, otherwise it’s a ball off target or it’s just a floater with no velocity. a

Aiden O'Connell has made 10 throws today that Mac couldn't make. It's his 2nd game.

SoFloSoxFan · Nov 5, 2023

j44thor said:
This team is struggling at home against bad teams, how much worse can it get?

The answer to this question, no matter how many times it is asked, is much much worse.

rodderick · Nov 5, 2023

SoFloSoxFan said:
The answer to this question, no matter how many times it is asked, is much much worse.

The worst team in football has won one fewer game.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

j44thor said:
If he is the best QB NE can find then the GM needs to be fired. I find it hard to believe there aren't PS QBs that can do what Mac has done which is score only 17pts vs. one of the worst Def in the NFL who got measurably worse by trading away their top 2 DL. This team is struggling at home against bad teams, how much worse can it get?

He's the best QB on the roster currently. If Mac is so horrendously awful, he's certainly not the best QB that "NE can find". It just can't happen NOW, for a variety of reasons. But here's the thing: people better be ready because as rough a go as it's been with Mac, he's 18-22 as a starter with a career passer rating of 87.6 (that number doesn't take today's game into account, though the W-L record does). It's going to be VERY easy to find a guy WORSE than that, and not quite so easy to find a guy BETTER than that.

rodderick · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
He's the best QB on the roster currently. If Mac is so horrendously awful, he's certainly not the best QB that "NE can find". It just can't happen NOW, for a variety of reasons. But here's the thing: people better be ready because as rough a go as it's been with Mac, he's 18-22 as a starter with a career passer rating of 87.6 (that number doesn't take today's game into account, though the W-L record does). It's going to be VERY easy to find a guy WORSE than that, and not quite so easy to find a guy BETTER than that.

Who cares about passer rating in 2023, year of out lord? There are very, very few QBs who got multiple starts and have been worse than Mac Jones by EPA/Play since the start of 2022. Even the Josh Dobbs and Gardner Minshews of the world are outplaying him handily. I'd argue as of now it would be hard to envision finding a QB that would to worse than what Mac offers. Worst case scenario you sign Jacoby Brissett and get the same level of performance. The downside in moving on is minuscule.

SoFloSoxFan · Nov 5, 2023

rodderick said:
The worst team in football has won one fewer game.

That's fine, and NE has the worst point differential it looks like.

But it can always get worse. Every time some depth starter has a bad game for the sox, someone says cut him and call someone up, they can't be any worse, they can. They can be much worse. And some PS guy from another team can be much much worse too. Just because we haven't yet seen specifically how each one of them is bad doesn't mean they aren't bad.

I am not defending Mac, but the rhetorical HOW MUCH WORSE CAN IT GET is old and tired.

Petagine in a Bottle · Nov 5, 2023

It probably can’t be worse in any ways that are actually meaningful. Of course, perhaps not better either.

j44thor · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
He's the best QB on the roster currently. If Mac is so horrendously awful, he's certainly not the best QB that "NE can find". It just can't happen NOW, for a variety of reasons. But here's the thing: people better be ready because as rough a go as it's been with Mac, he's 18-22 as a starter with a career passer rating of 87.6 (that number doesn't take today's game into account, though the W-L record does). It's going to be VERY easy to find a guy WORSE than that, and not quite so easy to find a guy BETTER than that.

Rookie Mac probably has this team playing .500 ball if not better. He has regressed in every meaningful category each year he has played in the league, his Y/A, Comp % and TD/INT ratio have all gone down each year for the last 3 years and he doesn't pass the eye test either. He is sadly a shell of his rookie self.

Jinhocho · Nov 5, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/ChadGraff/status/1721285440072769929?t=EB7ZugaMAmd3GasWfM0eOA&s=19

genoasalami · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
He's the best QB on the roster currently. If Mac is so horrendously awful, he's certainly not the best QB that "NE can find". It just can't happen NOW, for a variety of reasons. But here's the thing: people better be ready because as rough a go as it's been with Mac, he's 18-22 as a starter with a career passer rating of 87.6 (that number doesn't take today's game into account, though the W-L record does). It's going to be VERY easy to find a guy WORSE than that, and not quite so easy to find a guy BETTER than that.

But. They win NOTHING with him unless they surround him with a top 5 NFL roster. Good luck with that.

E5 Yaz · Nov 5, 2023

Jinhocho said:
View: https://twitter.com/ChadGraff/status/1721285440072769929?t=EB7ZugaMAmd3GasWfM0eOA&s=19

He really doesn't know how to answer questions at a press conference

Old Fart Tree · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
He's the best QB on the roster currently. If Mac is so horrendously awful, he's certainly not the best QB that "NE can find". It just can't happen NOW, for a variety of reasons. But here's the thing: people better be ready because as rough a go as it's been with Mac, he's 18-22 as a starter with a career passer rating of 87.6 (that number doesn't take today's game into account, though the W-L record does). It's going to be VERY easy to find a guy WORSE than that, and not quite so easy to find a guy BETTER than that.

dude.

He sucks.

Jinhocho · Nov 5, 2023

E5 Yaz said:
He really doesn't know how to answer questions at a press conference

I think he knows. He has subtly undermined (in his mind) his coaches, his line, and his receivers. He has a tendency to blame others or try to shift the blame that shows up repeatedly.

tims4wins · Nov 5, 2023

Did he not miss a wide open receiver on the 4th down play? Like - wide openn

Ralphwiggum · Nov 5, 2023

SoFloSoxFan said:
That's fine, and NE has the worst point differential it looks like.

But it can always get worse. Every time some depth starter has a bad game for the sox, someone says cut him and call someone up, they can't be any worse, they can. They can be much worse. And some PS guy from another team can be much much worse too. Just because we haven't yet seen specifically how each one of them is bad doesn't mean they aren't bad.

I am not defending Mac, but the rhetorical HOW MUCH WORSE CAN IT GET is old and tired.

It’s not that it can’t get worse, it obviously can. The issue is we pretty much know what we are going to get with Mac at this point and it sucks and is boring and frustrating to watch. So I think what people are saying is it is worth the risk that it can be worse because it also maybe might be better, and the status quo sucks ass.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

rodderick said:
Who cares about passer rating in 2023, year of out lord? There are very, very few QBs who got multiple starts and have been worse than Mac Jones by EPA/Play since the start of 2022. Even the Josh Dobbs and Gardner Minshews of the world are outplaying him handily. I'd argue as of now it would be hard to envision finding a QB that would to worse than what Mac offers. Worst case scenario you sign Jacoby Brissett and get the same level of performance. The downside in moving on is minuscule.

I'm just saying....don't be surprised if the next guy they get isn't even as good as Mac.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

genoasalami said:
But. They win NOTHING with him unless they surround him with a top 5 NFL roster. Good luck with that.

Agreed. I'm all for moving on to the next guy. I've said for several weeks now that they need to draft a QB this next draft.

j44thor · Nov 5, 2023

The only question that should be asked of Mac is why he continues to float touch passes when receivers are wide open, why can't he just throw the ball with pace and hit them in stride instead of trying to drop it in the bucket. I've never seen a QB try so many touch passes as Mac has this season, especially when there is no reason for it.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

j44thor said:
Rookie Mac probably has this team playing .500 ball if not better. He has regressed in every meaningful category each year he has played in the league, his Y/A, Comp % and TD/INT ratio have all gone down each year for the last 3 years and he doesn't pass the eye test either. He is sadly a shell of his rookie self.

Why do you think that is? (that's a genuine question - I don't know the answer)

Ralphwiggum · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
I'm just saying....don't be surprised if the next guy they get isn't even as good as Mac.

So what? They’d have one win or no wins? They suck. The next guy might be worse or might be better but they are going nowhere with this stiff at QB so make a fucking change and see what happens. What’s the point of continuing to play a guy at QB who quite obviously is not good enough to win consistently in the league?

Joe D Reid · Nov 5, 2023

The spectrum of possibly correct opinions on this guy currently starts at “He’s bad” and ends at “He’s good, just not good enough”. I find myself caring less and less about exactly where he falls on that spectrum.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

Ralphwiggum said:
So what? They’d have one win or no wins? They suck. The next guy might be worse or might be better but they are going nowhere with this stiff at QB so make a fucking change and see what happens. What’s the point of continuing to play a guy at QB who quite obviously is not good enough to win consistently in the league?

See my post #7438 just a few above this one. I'm all for moving on, and I've been as big a Mac supporter as there is here. I'm just saying that it's quite possible that the next guy is even worse than Mac.

Ralphwiggum · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
See my post #7438 just a few above this one. I'm all for moving on, and I've been as big a Mac supporter as there is here. I'm just saying that it's quite possible that the next guy is even worse than Mac.

Um, yeah sure. So what?

Jinhocho · Nov 5, 2023

I think if Jones is going to be out there as QB they need to run the ball a ton more. There is no hidden upside and either his turnovers and/or inability to score points put us behind often, so I get why they get away from the run. I wouldnt mind seeing 40 runs per game the next few weeks.

Awesome Fossum · Nov 5, 2023

j44thor said:
The only question that should be asked of Mac is why he continues to float touch passes when receivers are wide open, why can't he just throw the ball with pace and hit them in stride instead of trying to drop it in the bucket. I've never seen a QB try so many touch passes as Mac has this season, especially when there is no reason for it.

The lob passes are downright bizarre.

BaseballJones · Nov 5, 2023

Ralphwiggum said:
Um, yeah sure. So what?

My point is, to those who think that Mac is so bad that getting an improvement should be pretty easy, I'm just saying, prepare yourself for the distinct possibility that it's not easy at all. But yes, they have to try.

tims4wins · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
My point is, to those who think that Mac is so bad that getting an improvement should be pretty easy, I'm just saying, prepare yourself for the distinct possibility that it's not easy at all. But yes, they have to try.

They’re the worst team in the AFC. I mean I guess it can technically get worse. But I’d rather be 0-9 than 2-7 at this point.

Euclis20 · Nov 5, 2023

Jinhocho said:
I think if Jones is going to be out there as QB they need to run the ball a ton more. There is no hidden upside and either his turnovers and/or inability to score points put us behind often, so I get why they get away from the run. I wouldnt mind seeing 40 runs per game the next few weeks.

The Pats entered today 28th in the league in rushing yards per attempt (and take away the one big run today, and they averaged just 2.7 yards per designed rush). It takes a special running game (offensive line and running backs) to overcome a stacked box (which happens when the passing game scares no one), and the Patriots do not have a special running game by any stretch of the imagination. If the Pats really tried just running the ball 40x per game, the only benefit would be that the game would end sooner.

j44thor · Nov 5, 2023

BaseballJones said:
Why do you think that is? (that's a genuine question - I don't know the answer)

It is the $100M question as in rookie Mac probably gets a contract in that neighborhood if he just slightly improved over rookie year ala Daniel Jones. This version will be lucky to get 10% of that moving forward.
Part coaching, part supporting cast, part Mac stagnation is my guess probably equal parts of the blame pie.

The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

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