This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots
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Tom Curran: Sources made 'clear to me' decision to move on from Belichick made after Germany game
A few more details here--including that Kraft first grew upset with BB in 2017 when the latter's relationship with Brady began to fray--and that Kraft was even more frustrated that BB had no plan in place to replace the GOAT.
A few more details here--including that Kraft first grew upset with BB in 2017 when the latter's relationship with Brady began to fray--and that Kraft was even more frustrated that BB had no plan in place to replace the GOAT.
here is my 02 cents on the trade market
AFC East nope mr kraft wont let that happhed unlees its was for 5 1sts
AFC Nouth no jobs open
AFC South Tenn bill was born in nashvillie tenn i dont see this happhed unlees u take varbel back in the deal
Afc west LAC spacos are way too cheap plus they allways want a head coach and gm together and they are 48 mil over the cap as well
vegas no change here because they been burned by mcd if this was the mid 2000's they wouild the frontrunner through
Nfc
Dal 10% at best and if dallas makes the nfc tittie game its zero
wash harris might be too foward thinking if snyder was still here this wouild be the team
nyg i only put this here because if he wants nyg then he need to go into tv and wait for this to open also couild wait on gb and minn no sea rams for 25 as well
chi they will go harbaugh i think
nfc south
ATL this is my pick u need tampa to win the south if that happheds blank will pay mr kraft whatever he wants
Car lack of a 1st in 24 makes this unlikely
nfc west
AFC East nope mr kraft wont let that happhed unlees its was for 5 1sts
AFC Nouth no jobs open
AFC South Tenn bill was born in nashvillie tenn i dont see this happhed unlees u take varbel back in the deal
Afc west LAC spacos are way too cheap plus they allways want a head coach and gm together and they are 48 mil over the cap as well
vegas no change here because they been burned by mcd if this was the mid 2000's they wouild the frontrunner through
Nfc
Dal 10% at best and if dallas makes the nfc tittie game its zero
wash harris might be too foward thinking if snyder was still here this wouild be the team
nyg i only put this here because if he wants nyg then he need to go into tv and wait for this to open also couild wait on gb and minn no sea rams for 25 as well
chi they will go harbaugh i think
nfc south
ATL this is my pick u need tampa to win the south if that happheds blank will pay mr kraft whatever he wants
Car lack of a 1st in 24 makes this unlikely
nfc west
So frustrated that he kept signing BB to new contracts, including this past offseason when he re-signed him for two more years.
Interesting, he doesn’t even try to cite the counterpoint to that, namely that the team tried to sell out in their cap and roster management strategy to squeeze the last few years out of Brady. Whether you agree with that alternate viewpoint or not, Curran is clearly voicing what is, or what he at least perceives is, the Kraft camp’s uncut POV here. Bill can’t do anything for Curran, after all, but Bob and Jonathan aren’t going anywhere.
To be clear, this doesn’t mean his reporting is wrong, if anything it is more evidence that he got the green light, or saw it as an opportune time, to actually stand behind what previously had been disclaimed intimations that Bill was done here.
Yes--as you and @BaseballJones point out, there are a few holes in what Curran claims about Kraft's PoV on BB in the video, including an existing contract that seemingly did little to nothing to erode BB's authority or decision-making supremacy--as well as a SB victory. More to come I'm sure. Belichick's next press conference will probably shatter all previous records for variations on, "I'm just focused on Kansas City."
If they end up with #2 I think you want someone other than BB making the decision on what to do with it.
If it ends this way it's pretty depressing. The fact that this story has been out for several hours and there's been no public rebuttal is at least notable. The Krafts should realize if they don't nail the next hire and rebuild, fans' ire will quickly turn to them. The narrative will be they couldn't land the airplane with either BB or TB.
@Chad Finn with a piece I almost complete agree with: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/12/12/sports/bill-belichick-patriots/
No, I feel like he was saying this in various interviews since after the Germany game.
If Kraft really is making/made this decision in large part because of Brady.... it makes me think he's in a far steeper decline as an owner than Bill is as a GM/HC. That's bad owner type stuff.
If Kraft is leaking to the media and unceremoniously showing the man that made his franchise one of the cornerstones of the league the door he is a massive ass.
We can debate Bill’s strengths with and without Brady, but is there any doubt that Kraft’s reputation as an owner and winner and all around good fella is based entirely on the two of them? Kraft seems like exactly like the kind of petty, lecherous scumbag who’d act out of the worst motivations.
I know we joke about it, and it’s a far remove, but if I knew a dude in real life who was rich and got busted getting hand jobs in a local mall, like we could still be friends, but would I ever think that person had good judgment or want to be in any way involved with him?
I know we joke about it, and it’s a far remove, but if I knew a dude in real life who was rich and got busted getting hand jobs in a local mall, like we could still be friends, but would I ever think that person had good judgment or want to be in any way involved with him?
Curran explicitly said on his Nov. 30 podcast that Kraft was going to let BB go:
"Let's try to keep this as organized as possible, with a chronological attack of how the situation WILL, not may, but WILL unfold with different opportunities and different scenarios. First, OK, fast-forward to the end of the season. Krafts say, 'Bill, we don't want you to coach anymore. Love ya, mean it, it's time for a new direction."
And then he and Phil Perry worked through various scenarios from that fact pattern.
I'm really curious why that report from Curran TODAY was the one that caught everyone's attention. It might just be that Curran works so hard to sound cute that it's fucking impossible to understand what he's trying to say half the time, and today's report was the first time people actually heard what he was saying.
"Let's try to keep this as organized as possible, with a chronological attack of how the situation WILL, not may, but WILL unfold with different opportunities and different scenarios. First, OK, fast-forward to the end of the season. Krafts say, 'Bill, we don't want you to coach anymore. Love ya, mean it, it's time for a new direction."
And then he and Phil Perry worked through various scenarios from that fact pattern.
I'm really curious why that report from Curran TODAY was the one that caught everyone's attention. It might just be that Curran works so hard to sound cute that it's fucking impossible to understand what he's trying to say half the time, and today's report was the first time people actually heard what he was saying.
I'd be very surprised if Robert Kraft was leaking this sort of thing given the long history and successful partnership with BB.
I'd be less surprised if it was someone close to him, such as his son.
I'd be less surprised if it was someone close to him, such as his son.
Yes. This is what I was referring to earlier in the thread. Be interesting to see if kraft leaves him hanging the rest of the season.
B
The bolded isn't even logical. BB drafted Jimmy G to be that guy but the Krafts would let him bc Brady lasted longer than anyone thought he would. That's a plan.
What was the plan after Jimmy was traded? There was no plan. Also this isn’t just due to the lack of QB. The entire roster kinda blows with the drafts being bad for awhile forcing the team to waste money on garbage in free agency after 2020.
You fire Shit Shitterson after 2 mediocre season and one terrible one. You shouldn't fire Bill Belichick after 20 mostly-great seasons, 2 mediocre ones and one terrible one. Then again, NFL owners are a special kind of human being, to whom normal rules of human behavior dont seem to apply. So whaddoIknow.
Purely speculative/observational, but I thought Robert looked/sounded/ seemed noticeably older , weaker, and slower on Gameday last Saturday. I wonder if he’s fully entered figure head status, and the lucky sperm is steering the ship now. If so, I can definitely see him acting out of the worst motivations you listed above. I think a reasonable case can be made to part ways with BB. But if he really is being smeared/hobbled like this before the season even ends, after everything he’s accomplished and done for the franchise, fuck the Krafts. A reminder that players and coaches are why I still care about and follow professional sports. Not owners. So many of whom are such venal, distasteful human beings.
I’d bring BB back for another season, since I figure it’s best to know for sure that he’s washed up as a GM/Coach than be left wondering if he had one last rabbit to pull out of his hat. Lots of coaches have had a few down years then rebounded.
That being said, it may be the GM part of the equation that’s the deal breaker here. The O is just so damn awful, and there’s almost nothing there to build on.
To me BB’s failure on O goes back to the off-season following 2018 when he barely tried to replace Gronk. That led to the 2 TE draft disaster. And we’ve seen that pattern repeated at other offensive spots for 5 years running.
If the Krafts have completely lost faith in Bill’s ability to build an O then I kinda get a decision to move on.
But again, I’d keep him for 2024.
That being said, it may be the GM part of the equation that’s the deal breaker here. The O is just so damn awful, and there’s almost nothing there to build on.
To me BB’s failure on O goes back to the off-season following 2018 when he barely tried to replace Gronk. That led to the 2 TE draft disaster. And we’ve seen that pattern repeated at other offensive spots for 5 years running.
If the Krafts have completely lost faith in Bill’s ability to build an O then I kinda get a decision to move on.
But again, I’d keep him for 2024.
There is enough momentum that at this point if Kraft says nothing for a week or two, I might to start believe (for the first time) that this is possible.
It is a good time to remind folks that the person hiring the next coach and GM is not going to be a 58 year old Robert Kraft, who himself was 4 years removed from making his own blunder on the hiring front.
FWIW, Pat McAfee kinda hinted that this was the direction the Patriots were going to go when he interviewed Robert on Gameday last Saturday. I can't remember exactly how he said it but it was something along the lines of "I don't envy your position, we know what's about to happen this offseason."
For those who were wondering: View: https://twitter.com/tsv__1/status/1733547748987969615?s=46&t=4DK5sD-8gsSKFExcsnEJqg
I think it’s a little awkward but hardly cringey.
I think it’s a little awkward but hardly cringey.
I think Bill is also a special case. His cantankerous, fuck everyone attitude is fine when the team is winning but a little harder to tolerate otherwise. It's not doing him any favors this season. (It's why Pete Carroll, despite much less success, will probably never go through this same type of scrutiny.) He's earned the leeway to end his career with the Pats on his terms, but that's easier to say from a distance than from inside the building. All that said, we have no idea whether Jonathan has the skills and emotional intelligence to handle this, assuming he's now driving the bus.
Total speculation on my part (I mean, I guess that is most of the posts on these boards), but even in the good times, Kraft struck me as a person whose management style was "get it done". No directions, no assistance, just a sink-or-swim mandate with the implication that jobs and reputation are on the line. For people who meet that directive, they get Kraft's loyalty - they are trusted people who finish the job. People who don't are shown the door. For that reason, I think BB has Kraft's loyalty and will get time to fix this, especially since Kraft (and possibly his son) would infinitely prefer to be hands off and just hang out with Meek Mill or whatever and let someone else keep winning football games and build the value of his franchise. But when they have to intervene and make a decision? I think that's tough because there is no one to delegate that to or blame to get it done. Maybe I am wrong. But I get the strong sense that Kraft would much prefer not having to get rid of BB and that these past few years were a bad dream and he won't have to step in and get a new guy. My prediction is that ultimately BB gets to hang around long enough to beat Shula, then Jonathan Kraft is tasked with cleaning house and starting over. Just a hunch.
I say that as someone who would prefer the franchise move on from BB, in large part because he is an awful GM who has put this team in a hole and without the GOAT at the most important position to bail him out of these bad decisions, he's run out of cover for his mistakes. And I've read all the defenses of BB the GM, so there is no need to rehash them.
I say that as someone who would prefer the franchise move on from BB, in large part because he is an awful GM who has put this team in a hole and without the GOAT at the most important position to bail him out of these bad decisions, he's run out of cover for his mistakes. And I've read all the defenses of BB the GM, so there is no need to rehash them.
Jonathan Kraft would kneecap BB in a heartbeat if he thought it would inure to his (JK's) benefit. He is not nostalgic, nor is he sentimental. If Jonathan is starting to call the shots, this could be his first big move. I think Robert would have to be involved, but it's quite possible that Jonathan can now persuade/cajole/manipulate Bob into doing this.
BB is a great example of someone whose shit is awesome when you are winning and problematic when you're losing. That cantankerous attitude when they lose to drop their record to 11-3 with Brady? Oh shit, you know he is going to come out and destroy the Bears or whatever next game. But that attitude when he is 2-9 and no one knows who the QB is? That comes off as a sour guy who has lost control. Same with his GMing. Spending time turning a UDFA into a playable 5th CB is cute... when the rest of the team looks great as a super bowl contender. When your offense is so bad you can't muster more than 10 points 4 weeks straight though, bringing in FA safeties off the street for tryouts or making transactions related to Malik Cunningham (good for him - I have a feeling the Ravens are going to be a great fit for him) seems a bit lost.
Maybe it's Jonathan, but also Robert Kraft was considered a good owner basically for hiring good coaches/GMs and staying out of the way. But.... maybe that's only because the coaches won. He fired Carroll after he went 27-21 with 2 playoff appearances in 3 years, then got the best coach/GM ever and 20 years of success.
Honestly the rest of Kraft's profile fits with some of the bad owners... likes attention and praise, 80 year old white guy trying to hang out with rappers, parade of models girlfriends younger than his kids, dubious spending record on his other teams in terms of cash outlay.... it may well be Kraft was on track to be a bad owner, he just never got the chance because he lucked into 3 Hall of Fame level coaches (one of whom he fired).
Honestly the rest of Kraft's profile fits with some of the bad owners... likes attention and praise, 80 year old white guy trying to hang out with rappers, parade of models girlfriends younger than his kids, dubious spending record on his other teams in terms of cash outlay.... it may well be Kraft was on track to be a bad owner, he just never got the chance because he lucked into 3 Hall of Fame level coaches (one of whom he fired).
He fired Pete because 1) the record was trending down and quite precipitously (10-6 to 9-7 to 8-8 which included finishing that last year on a 2-6 run), and B) the team was in TERRIBLE shape in regards to the cap and were something like $40 million over with only 36 players rostered. It was clear at that point they needed a full rebuild and it was believed that Pete was not the guy to do so.
There really isn't a need to do this again. We know where Jsinger stands as he has made it clear multiple times, in multiple threads, using the same words. It's a position to take. IMO, it is not a good one. The redundancy is not necessary whatsoever.
I think Kraft should get a ton of credit for keeping the Pats in Foxboro and taking a far less lucrative deal than what was being offered by Hartford. I think Gillette is the last NFL stadium that was built without any taxpayer money, and as a result it is kind of a joke of a stadium compared to many of the other newer ones despite being only 20 years old or so. Not that Kraft needs extra billions but he would probably have extra billions if he moved the team to Hartford way back when.
Beyond that I agree we don't really know much about him and his reputation as a good owner from a football success perspective is almost entirely based around BB and TB.
We keep talking about this choice as “Should Kraft fire Belichick or give him another year?” The far better question should be “Can the Krafts work with Bill to begin transitioning to the next coach/GM?” And I don’t see any reason they can’t or wouldn’t want to.
If I’m Robert, or Jonathan, I approach this like I am building the infrastructure for the next dynasty. Who better than to begin bringing those pieces in—coaches, personnel guys—than the best to have ever done it?
He doesn’t have final say on everything – but he’s one of its chief architects. This isn’t a young guy breathing down Bill’s neck about who to draft and what decisions to make in games. It’s guys Bill and others trust to help identify talent, contribute to the decision-making and to take on a greater share of these responsibilities.
It’s possible this has already begun with BOB, Mayo and Steve but my guess is it hasn’t been explicit and there hasn’t been much brought in from the outside. But this is how you do succession planning. Not by taking away this responsibility or that one but rather coming to Bill and saying “This is a good time to formally begin this process, let’s identify what this organization is going to need in place once you retire.”
Will it happen? No idea. But it’s not only respectful of Bill’s legacy but more importantly appropriate under the circumstances and smart – all of which are consistent with how Kraft has done business for a very long time.
If I’m Robert, or Jonathan, I approach this like I am building the infrastructure for the next dynasty. Who better than to begin bringing those pieces in—coaches, personnel guys—than the best to have ever done it?
He doesn’t have final say on everything – but he’s one of its chief architects. This isn’t a young guy breathing down Bill’s neck about who to draft and what decisions to make in games. It’s guys Bill and others trust to help identify talent, contribute to the decision-making and to take on a greater share of these responsibilities.
It’s possible this has already begun with BOB, Mayo and Steve but my guess is it hasn’t been explicit and there hasn’t been much brought in from the outside. But this is how you do succession planning. Not by taking away this responsibility or that one but rather coming to Bill and saying “This is a good time to formally begin this process, let’s identify what this organization is going to need in place once you retire.”
Will it happen? No idea. But it’s not only respectful of Bill’s legacy but more importantly appropriate under the circumstances and smart – all of which are consistent with how Kraft has done business for a very long time.
Did Curran have a quote from Tom Brady, Sr for his latest report?
As others have said, Curran is no longer a beat/news guy like Reiss. Could Bill be gone after this year? Sure. Is Kraft or someone else going to leak to Tom Curran that they made the decision after the loss in Germany to move on? No. What would a trial balloon even be worth doing? The subject of Bill moving on was already being talked about locally and nationally.
As others have said, Curran is no longer a beat/news guy like Reiss. Could Bill be gone after this year? Sure. Is Kraft or someone else going to leak to Tom Curran that they made the decision after the loss in Germany to move on? No. What would a trial balloon even be worth doing? The subject of Bill moving on was already being talked about locally and nationally.
Having Myra at his side for many of those years didn't hurt how the public perceived him, either.
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