I’m a 4, but trending towards a 5 when I think about how any young players that really break through will end up on the Dodgers, while I get lectured about sustainability, and how baseball players cost money once again.
This reads like they're not spending anything.Do we even know if Breslow/FO are planning to spend money this year, or if they're more focused on acquiring prospects? Because my answer would depend a lot on what their strategy is -- if we ever know it.
There's some discussion of this in the rumors thread, and you're not alone in your feelings, but a bunch of folks also read it differently. Is there any quote from that blurb that makes you feel that way specifically. , or is it just that you don't feel you can trust them no matter what they say? Edit: which is absolutely fine, you would not be alone in that by any means.This reads like they're not spending anything.
View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1747306690263781564?t=wYRIJzml9eBcm_X898gwOQ&s=19
They might start charging for cokes in the clubhouse at this rate.
I feel this way because he said that in answer to a question about whether the team was going to pay for free agents to fill current needs they need to address in order to compete. This is how Pete described his question to Craig:There's some discussion of this in the rumors thread, and you're not alone in your feelings, but a bunch of folks also read it differently. Is there any quote from that blurb that makes you feel that way specifically. , or is it just that you don't feel you can trust them no matter what they say?
I'm genuinely curious, personally I think he spoke today mostly to correct the impressions the ill advised "full throttle" comments left people with, and Werner's quotes later seem to back that up. I certainly don't see it as saying they won't spend anything, and I doubt without the uproar he would have felt the need to say anything today.
His answer is "no, and here's what that means" only he skipped saying "no" (for obvious reasons) and expanded upon "here's what that means."When he was hired in October, Breslow said he believed ownership was committed to building a contender and would spend what it took to reach that goal.
What’s his answer now?
You know I was right there with you.#3 for me. I think I was one of the few who really enjoyed last season's team before whatever the hell happened in September. I just love watching baseball, and love watching Red Sox baseball specifically. I am not a passionate about the "winning" as I used to be, though, so that might be why I seem pollyannish at times around here. I really just want them to play well enough for us to all be able to discuss baseball again, without all the stress and anxiety.
Thanks for posting this article. To me it says that prospects are hard to value except the very top. And we know that the most likely way of finding those guys is to draft high. The Red Sox need some cost-controlled premium talent. Hopefully they already have a couple but I think mors is necessary.I guess I am somewhere on the spectrum between 3 and 5. If the team truly doesn't care about competing next year I am not going to waste my time watching or buying tickets. Plus I have concerns this will be a one-year thing. It puts so many eggs in the prospect and development basket which isn't a high-success rate strategy (https://community.fangraphs.com/your-teams-prospects-are-probably-not-going-to-work-out/). But I still love the Red Sox so I will check the standings, follow IG stories, and still read and post here.
You're forgetting the first rule of being a Sox fan. Giving up too early is unacceptable. Any eventual defeat is going to be slow and agonizing.It's January 16, it's been snowing all day and realistically, the best that I see my favorite baseball team doing is fourth place in the American League East. That's such a depressing sentence to write.
Those last two words are perfect to describe the offseason.You're forgetting the first rule of being a Sox fan. Giving up too early is unacceptable. Any eventual defeat is going to be slow and agonizing.
I wouldn't have it any other way. Makes the years that we reach the mountaintop all the much sweeter.You're forgetting the first rule of being a Sox fan. Giving up too early is unacceptable. Any eventual defeat is going to be slow and agonizing.
I'm confused a little, do you think Breslow won't try to win? It's not as if Gorman was given a blank check, to say the least. If those were the types of moves that passed for a big splash here today, I don't want to even think about it.Jack Clark, Danny Darwin and Matt Young were terrible acquisitions, but I never thought that Lou Gorman wasn't trying to win.
Do I think that Breslow wants to win? Yes, I do. Do I think that ownership wants to win? I'm not sure, but it doesn't appear to me that they want to. My point was that Gorman was given money to improve the team by Harrington/Yawkey, he thought that he could improve the team with Clark, Darwin and Young. Those moves didn't turn out great (though Clark had a decent enough first year in Boston) but it wasn't for lack of trying.I'm confused a little, do you think Breslow won't try to win? It's not as if Gorman was given a blank check, to say the least. If those were the types of moves that passed for a big splash here today, I don't want to even think about it.
Surely you don't think that winning was the primary focus during the Yawkey/Harrington years, do you? I'd argue that the torch and pitchfork anger we've seen lately could have been more deservedly applied to that era. They were never, ever as committed to winning as this group has at least sometimes demonstrated.
Thanks, man, you know I understand and respect where you're coming from, it just seemed that you conflated the GM and ownership roles a bit. I think Breslow and Gorman are/were both at the mercy of ownership. Such is the way, but I think both want/wanted to build and win within whatever that framework is/was. What I don't see is that Yawkey/Harrington ever really gave Gorman much of a chance to accomplish his goal ('86 aside). Which, if anything, is what I worry about with the current regime and Breslow, not his commitment to winning.Do I think that Breslow wants to win? Yes, I do. Do I think that ownership wants to win? I'm not sure, but it doesn't appear to me that they want to. My point was that Gorman was given money to improve the team by Harrington/Yawkey, he thought that he could improve the team with Clark, Darwin and Young. Those moves didn't turn out great (though Clark had a decent enough first year in Boston) but it wasn't for lack of trying.
I'm not sure if I agree with you about winning not being the primary focus during the Y/H. The overall answer to that is that it's more complicated than yes or no--which to be fair is probably the answer to whether this ownership is committed to winning now. I think that the evidence points that they really haven't been in the last four seasons. Like the Y/H ownership, it appears that a commitment to winning ebbs and flows with both ownership groups; so I'll walk that claim back a little bit.
As far as ownership right now, I don't think that they care whether they win or lose. I know that they'd prefer to win (that's better for business) but I don't think that they prefer it enough to spend the money that it takes to field a winning ball club in 2024. And yes, I know that they were committed to winning, and I thank them very, very much from the bottom of my heart for spending the money to build a winner (and reaping the untold spoils that one gets when the team wins). But they simply aren't doing this any more. I've resigned myself to the fact that this is true and while I'm not okay with it, I'm not going to riot in the streets.
To put it another way, say you went to a Chinese restaurant because for the last 20 years they served great food at slightly higher prices but you didn't care about what you spent because the food was excellent and the times you spent there were so fun. However in the last four years, the restaurant's chef quit, the service is terrible, the quality of food has plummeted but the prices are still high and the owners are raising them every year. You still go back to that place because you remember how much fun you had and how much you liked the food, but it's just not the same. You don't want to torch the place, but you're still a bit bummed out and you're going to other non-Chinese food places to spend your cash.
That's where I am.
I agree that things aren't the way they used to be. Using your restaurant analogy is not a bad way to go...so many restaurants fail, and they are universally seen as an unwise business opportunity. With MLB, I think the market has gotten more competitive in the last 20 years. It used to be the Sox were mostly competing with the Yankees in terms of getting to (or through) the playoffs, and those two teams were perpetually head and shoulders above the rest of the AL, and most of MLB in payroll. Now, in addition to NY and Boston, we have a whole new tranche of teams with deeper pockets who suddenly are also competing for all the top free agents. Teams like San Diego, Philly, the Cubs, the Giants, Texas, Houston, Toronto, and a few more are now seemingly "in" on a lot of top dollar free agents, where previously the competition was more limited. This has also had the effect of driving contracts even higher. It's a more level playing field for the Sox, and it is that much harder to separate yourself from your opponents. Now there a bunch of good restaurants, and prices are going up all over town.To put it another way, say you went to a Chinese restaurant because for the last 20 years they served great food at slightly higher prices but you didn't care about what you spent because the food was excellent and the times you spent there were so fun. However in the last four years, the restaurant's chef quit, the service is terrible, the quality of food has plummeted but the prices are still high and the owners are raising them every year. You still go back to that place because you remember how much fun you had and how much you liked the food, but it's just not the same. You don't want to torch the place, but you're still a bit bummed out and you're going to other non-Chinese food places to spend your cash.
That's where I am.
While we disagree on some other things, I'm with you on this. I think most are.If someone told me in October that the major acquisitions for this offseason were going to be Lucas Giolito, Vaughn Grissom and Tyler O'Neill; I'd be pretty bummed out.
I know you can't force the players to take contracts, but - to me at least - I'd be singing a much different tune about the Giolito acquisition if the Red Sox had given him 5yrs/$125m/$25m AAV (I think a younger version of Sonny Gray is a pretty reasonable comp, which is where I'm getting the numbers).While we disagree on some other things, I'm with you on this. I think most are.
Yep. One can be disappointed without needing to assign blame.I know you can't force the players to take contracts. .
Didn't I tell you to get out of my head once already? I want to buy this post dinner. Or something.I agree that things aren't the way they used to be. Using your restaurant analogy is not a bad way to go...so many restaurants fail, and they are universally seen as an unwise business opportunity. With MLB, I think the market has gotten more competitive in the last 20 years. It used to be the Sox were mostly competing with the Yankees in terms of getting to (or through) the playoffs, and those two teams were perpetually head and shoulders above the rest of the AL, and most of MLB in payroll. Now, in addition to NY and Boston, we have a whole new tranche of teams with deeper pockets who suddenly are also competing for all the top free agents. Teams like San Diego, Philly, the Cubs, the Giants, Texas, Houston, Toronto, and a few more are now seemingly "in" on a lot of top dollar free agents, where previously the competition was more limited. This has also had the effect of driving contracts even higher. It's a more level playing field for the Sox, and it is that much harder to separate yourself from your opponents. Now there a bunch of good restaurants, and prices are going up all over town.
To me, the last few years of free agency has raised the risk teams take when signing the top players. I just don't think teams are going to be able to stay competitive making mistakes like SD made with Bogaerts. Maybe the contracts the Dodgers gave Ohtani and YY will make sense from a business perspective, but I have real questions whether that will translate into success on the field. And the Glasnow contract seems like total insanity. If I'm a Dodgers fan, they better bring a title home in the next 2-3 years, because they are likely going to paying for a world of past performance at that point. It may work out for them, but it also has the potential to be disastrous, especially if either of those pitchers get (or remain) injured.
I still have faith in this ownership. The 4 titles they've won buys them a lot of slack with me. I've mentioned before that we know that one skill John Henry possesses is an ability to read markets better than most others. I might have carmine colored glasses on, but I think he is still shrewd, sees that the market has changed (and not in a way that preserves the advantage the Sox had), and realizes the Sox need to be much more deliberate than they used to be. There are some teams currently that seem to be subscribing to the idea that big money free agent contracts can lead them to the promised land, and they are making that avenue for success more expensive and difficult for everyone else. Time will tell, but sitting back a bit to see how these new market forces play out might be a wise strategy. John Henry didn't just get lucky making all his money.
Thanks. Even if my post likes mediocre overpriced Chinese?I want to buy this post dinner. Or something.
Have they done first base?I think this might be the place for this thought, but MLB Network is doing their Top 10 for each position right now and I have not seen a Red Sox player yet (I don’t think they’ve done third base). It just seems depressing that they are so mid all over the diamond.
edit: However, I voted for Option 3, like many I am between 3 and 4.
I think this might be the place for this thought, but MLB Network is doing their Top 10 for each position right now and I have not seen a Red Sox player yet (I don’t think they’ve done third base). It just seems depressing that they are so mid all over the diamond.
edit: However, I voted for Option 3, like many I am between 3 and 4.
Those things have turned into engagement bait.Have they done first base?
This is where I am at. Just give me a team that is interesting to watch all season. In 4 out of the last 5 years we have not had that.I want exciting late-season baseball when the weather is cool at night and I can listen by the firepit to an engaged Uncle Joe. It'll be disappointing if the exciting September doesn't lead to October games, but the September '21 run of 7 straight wins, losing 5 of 6, then winning the last 3 really tight games is what its all about for me.
I'm looking for competition and quality baseball this season, though I'm not optimistic.This is where I am at. Just give me a team that is interesting to watch all season. In 4 out of the last 5 years we have not had that.