Let's Lay Off That Throttle
- Thread starter soxhop411
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Slight correction: median NBA salary is 4.6MM. Median MLB is 4.9MM. NBA salaries are capped, of course, so the top end is way lower than MLB as well.
Median Cs tickets are way more expensive, though.
If they settle for below market deals it won’t be with the Boston Red Sox. They will go to committed winning organizations.
We have no value add. I pray that changes with Breslow and pitchers seek out the dev team. But we just aren’t a value add program yet. It sucks.
BY THE WAY. Cora is beyond gone. You can feel whatever you want about that. Maybe you don’t care. Maybe you think it doesn’t matter.
But he’s gone. It’s over with him after 2024 unless you get a 99th percentile outcome with this team.
But he’s gone. It’s over with him after 2024 unless you get a 99th percentile outcome with this team.
Honestly, stuff like the quotes we're getting tonight makes me not WANT it to work. THEY DONT DESERVE IT! They don't deserve to stumble assbackwards into success they weren't even trying to achieve.
I hold out some hope for this, too. It's surely part of it. But after all this, I'm just not giving them the benefit of the doubt. If we parlay this into Montgomery, there's plenty of time to get happy again.
As a fan I think it's always better to be surprised while having low expectations than being crushed by artificially high ones. They didn't have to take the approach they did, and that's what I find so maddening.
I guess tonight I'm just destined to be disgusted. At least I have a lot of company.
He’ll get top dollar from any team looking for a change. I’d wager he tops Council’s deal.
But you think he sucks?
Total dollars maybe, but there are 15 players in the NBA making more than the $46M/yr that Otanhi’s contract is actually worth and that number is going to go up a lot faster than the number of MLB players making that much. The max contract length just means the top players sign 3+1’s and bump their AAV every 3 years.
I think his strengths don't really involve the type of active management that can squeeze the most wins out of a club.
Which would seemingly make him a bad fit for a team that currently needs to win on the margins.
Dan Shaugnessy III is going to make a killing on "The Curse of the Mookbino" in 2050. Robbed of getting to watch one of the most fun players to ever play the game to fill the decrepit old monkey skeleton's wallet. And the whole time it was an absolute load of shit.
Exactly. But he's thinking about addressing defense and baserunning this spring training, so perhaps he's learning.
(More seriously, his PH and PR rates went up significantly last year. . .so perhaps he's learning.)
Great post. I very much agree with all of it. I’ll just add that if I never see the words “patience” and “entitlement” in a post here it’ll be too GD soon.
That’s not what’s embarrassing.
I thought he should have exited with Bloom. I've never thought of him as anything more than a good manager, but I certainly don't lay the faults of these past few seasons entirely on him. He's a lame duck with FO aspirations and the direction that the team appears to be taking doesn't really require him at the helm. The young players on this team moving forward might be better served to develop under someone who might have a longer term investment in them. That is of course assuming that he is done at the end of the season.
Regarding the current RSN situation… obviously the Diamond Sports-owned Bally’s nets are a mess. However, the NBC Sports group RSNs are still doing well and making a tidy profit. The major market, team owned RSNs like NESN, YES, SNY, Marquee and Sports Net LA are also doing well.
Needless to say, the cable model is in secular decline, and these nets are only going to see their subscribers and margins shrink. At the same time, there’s a likely future where MLB partners with Amazon to offer in-market “RSN”-type services and substantial money will keep flowing to the teams.
In short, the RSN situation is absolutely no excuse for what the Sox are doing. None. Hell they just bought the RSN in Pittsburgh. If it’s such a bad business why are they getting into it again?!
Needless to say, the cable model is in secular decline, and these nets are only going to see their subscribers and margins shrink. At the same time, there’s a likely future where MLB partners with Amazon to offer in-market “RSN”-type services and substantial money will keep flowing to the teams.
In short, the RSN situation is absolutely no excuse for what the Sox are doing. None. Hell they just bought the RSN in Pittsburgh. If it’s such a bad business why are they getting into it again?!
They own the penguins. So they had no other option (imo).
Its like how the Astros took over their broadcast network due to Att bankruptcy.
I know everyone’s always eager to play gotcha but I thought the theory we were mad about was that the payroll is mandated by FSG to be lower.
Kennedy’s statement, as published in Masslive, is “It probably will be lower than it was in 2023. I don’t know that for sure. We don’t talk about specific payroll numbers.” So, that’s another member of ownership saying there is no self-imposed budget.
I guess it just doesn’t seem like malpractice to me if Breslow comes in, brings in a whole new pitching development team to see what they can do with Houck, Whitlock, Crawford and Bello (and Giolito), and identifies a couple free agent starters they’re in on (like Montgomery) before going all in on Max Fried or Corbin Burnes next year.
Like, go look at the free agents that have signed. Which player is it such an atrocity that we didn’t get? To me, it’s maybe Nola, but it’s a stretch to think we would have won that bidding war if he re-signed so quickly with Philly. And it’s maybe Imanaga, who there are some questions around. Is it really such a big fucking deal we didn’t sign Seth Lugo?
Kennedy’s comment, if that’s how it shakes out, simply reflects the sub-CBT payroll of last year. It also reflects the Sale trade, which people seem to like. Wasn’t it just a few months ago that people were howling mad that Bloom didn’t trade Sale to the Rangers? Breslow traded him and the majority of his salary for a good young player — but for some reason all people are seeing (because that’s how it’s being framed) is that it lowered salary.
I’m frustrated with the team’s record over the past few years too. But it really feels like a lot of people want to spin every single thing they say or do into some catastrophe or conspiracy. It doesn’t make sense.
Kennedy’s statement, as published in Masslive, is “It probably will be lower than it was in 2023. I don’t know that for sure. We don’t talk about specific payroll numbers.” So, that’s another member of ownership saying there is no self-imposed budget.
I guess it just doesn’t seem like malpractice to me if Breslow comes in, brings in a whole new pitching development team to see what they can do with Houck, Whitlock, Crawford and Bello (and Giolito), and identifies a couple free agent starters they’re in on (like Montgomery) before going all in on Max Fried or Corbin Burnes next year.
Like, go look at the free agents that have signed. Which player is it such an atrocity that we didn’t get? To me, it’s maybe Nola, but it’s a stretch to think we would have won that bidding war if he re-signed so quickly with Philly. And it’s maybe Imanaga, who there are some questions around. Is it really such a big fucking deal we didn’t sign Seth Lugo?
Kennedy’s comment, if that’s how it shakes out, simply reflects the sub-CBT payroll of last year. It also reflects the Sale trade, which people seem to like. Wasn’t it just a few months ago that people were howling mad that Bloom didn’t trade Sale to the Rangers? Breslow traded him and the majority of his salary for a good young player — but for some reason all people are seeing (because that’s how it’s being framed) is that it lowered salary.
I’m frustrated with the team’s record over the past few years too. But it really feels like a lot of people want to spin every single thing they say or do into some catastrophe or conspiracy. It doesn’t make sense.
The Jazz and Suns watched their respective RSNs literally fold. So they struck a broadcast TV deal and sell the remainder of their games via a direct to consumer streaming service.
So, IMHO, FSG had options. They certainly didn’t *have* to buy an RSN. And it makes zero sense that they’re not spending on Red Sox salaries because of a looming issue with a business they doubled down on this year.
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Can't wait for the 2025 offseason thread where everyone speculates about how signing Giolito was a 4-D chess-move to sign his former high school teammate Max Fried before Fried finally signs a $250M contract with his hometown Dodgers.
Personally for me, the biggest sin here is that they got the fan base ginned up for a legitimate acceleration of the rebuild. I'm of the mind that there is still a lot to build on and am on record as in support of Breslow, but ownership jerking us all around for months, only to pull the Lucy with the football shit, is another matter altogether.
And when they talk, they still keep putting foot firmly in mouth. Why didn't just Kennedy simply say "we don't talk about specific payroll numbers" and leave it at that? Why must they keep offering unnecessary red meat? Probably lower/I'm not sure? Come on Sam, GTFOH. Just fucking zip it already. They're a legit clown show.
Again, I look at that separately from whatever the team ultimately looks like. If they had just said largely what they did today three months ago, there would have been grumbling for sure, but they would not have lost nearly the amount of goodwill and credibility they will after this cluster. And it's not like they were overflowing with the stuff already.
Yup. Max Fried will be 31 before he starts his next big contract. Burnes will be 30.5. Why should we believe that this ownership group will win what will likely be very competitive bidding for either pitcher?
People are mad about the team being bad and not getting better. The hard budget ceiling theory is some posters' attempt to explain it, but it's not what people are displeased with.
That's the President and CEO saying it will probably be lower. Not "it might be lower," not "it's lower now but we're still looking to sign some important players." So, in their current plan it's not going up before Opening Day. And, again, people are pissed that the payroll is low not that there might be a hard number. Personally, I may be more pissed it's staying low and there isn't a mandated ceiling keeping it down.
Show me Monty. Show me Max or Corbin. Is this just one year because they think the market sucks (2 generational talents aside) or is this how the team operates now? When do they start signing people? 2026? 27?
They're telling us they're not spending. They're saying it to reporters, they're saying it to agencies, now they're just plain telling us in public. That's not a conspiracy, that's just what's happening.
Are they telling us that they’re not spending? Or are they reflecting on a GM who just traded Chris Sale’s salary ($17M of it), Alex Verdugo’s $9 million, Luis Urias’s $4.7 million, and will likely trade Kenley Jansen’s $16 million — all good baseball moves so far — and rationally recognizing that there are very few players available whose salaries make up that difference?
They literally told us they are not spending. Nothing is stopping them from going out tomorrow, signing Montgomery, taking a bad contract off another team’s hands in order to get prospects, and increasing the payroll. Nothing, that is, except the leader of the organization saying the payroll will be lower next year.
Look, it’s frustrating that a team we all devote too much attention to is operating this way, but at a certain point we have to engage with the team as it is, not as we wish it to be.
I'll actually take that a step further and suggest that maybe the Sox did indeed just completely misjudge how high the market would actually end up going on YY. Which is a failure in itself for sure, but at least a less offensive one then the idea that it was only the perception (a word Breslow use quite a bit in yesterday's interview) of pursuit that really mattered there.
At the time that comment was made the common YY projections going around were what, 6-7 years at $200+ million? I can buy into a line of thought suggesting that this FO was fairly confident on Nov 4th that their decided willingless to extend a Dice-K v2 level overbid flirting north of 10/$300m was gonna get them to the winners circle. Combine that with the confirmations that we have at least been trying to be competitive on tier 2/3 SP options we reportedly liked after YY fell through, while simply falling short, and that has me at least holding at the edge of making a full jump right now.
Hearing Breslow all but confirm we won't be pursuing Montgomey/Snell was still a major gut punch though.
It’s actually literally not what the man said! I know people are eager to see this as a smoking gun but I don’t think it is.
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There was some talk here that some of that may have been for Boras's benefit, but I'm in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode right now.
My initial thought at hearing him wrap up the interview with that one less vague answer was to wonder if that earned him a scolding call from upstairs.
Rookie mistake and all.
Well if you have a chance to piss off your fanbase AND employ a goofily transparent negotiating ploy, you gotta shoot that shot!
Seriously, the notion that the Sox are secretly negotiating with Boras in the media like the Kennedy administration putting items for the Russians in the Washington Post during the Cuban Missile Crisis seems preposterous to me.
I'm Shocked... Shocked to discover that what was patently obvious (saving money/increasing profit was a priority over winning baseball games) was in fact true.
The thing is they own the penguins. So they would have had to find a willing partner in Pittsburg to take on the entire broadcast apparatus. And in thiis climate that is no guarantee. it could have been cheaper (in a sense) for NESN To take over the network for the time being because NESN already has the infrastructure (for bruins and sox games).
Only have ourselves to blame. Remember that last year’s booing force FSG to pay up.
And a portion of the fanbase thinks it was a terrible overpay for someone who’s a DH.
I gotta say, it's amazing how this franchise can do so many things to signal that it is not interested in spending money the way it used to, including a literal quote to that effect, and we still have people here saying -
"The offseason isn't over yet"
"It's just a negotiating ploy"
"Yes, they're passing on everyone this year, but NEXT YEAR they'll be really active!"
How far do the Sox have to fall in the payroll standings for people to accept reality. 13th last season according to Sportrac - where are they going to be in 2024 if we're spending less than last year?
"The offseason isn't over yet"
"It's just a negotiating ploy"
"Yes, they're passing on everyone this year, but NEXT YEAR they'll be really active!"
How far do the Sox have to fall in the payroll standings for people to accept reality. 13th last season according to Sportrac - where are they going to be in 2024 if we're spending less than last year?
See? I told you Krusty is coming! He's going to bring us food and water and smite our enemies!
Replace Krusty with John Henry and you have front office apologists.
My friends, they told us who they were the minute they shipped Mookie to Los Angeles and said it was “a baseball trade”. Wake up.
This sums it up for me. It sucks that we still need to talk about a 4 year old trade, but it’s hard to see it any other way. The Red Sox, NESN, and Fenway make gobs of money. There is zero reason why they should be non-competitive for this long and admit to their fans they have no plans to be competitive for at least another year. They should be competitive every year, this isn’t the freakin Royals.
Hey, the Royals signed Wacha, Lugo, Renfroe and traded for Nick Anderson! They’re trying!
That might nudge them a bit too close to last year’s payroll, but otherwise I fully agree that it would be a great step in the right direction.
Celtics have 1/4 the regular season seats as the Red Sox, with a team that's much better, and no worry about rain delays/weather.
Furthermore, NBA is a more global game, with a more international, more diverse, and less elderly fanbase. And half the players to pay.
What the Royals are trying to do is get locals to approve a ballot measure that would put taxpayers on the hook for $5 billion over 40 years toward a new stadium. Maybe they’ll contend too in a weak Central but more than a few baseball writers have pointed out that the sudden stoking of enthusiasm in for the team is probably more than a coincidence.
You nailed it here. Agree with literally all of this.
What bothers me a lot about this is that these completely unforced errors by ownership have put Breslow in a really bad position. And what really sucks, to me, is that I’ve liked all of Breslows moves but this is still going to look like a bad offseason because they didn’t spend
This post should be sticky’d at the top of this forum at least until October 1st.
Fenway park holds 80000 people now?
edit: guess you're counting games played not per game, which still isn't right, but at least it's kind of close
Yeah it's about 3.81 times, but I think he can be forgiven for rounding it to 4.