2015-16 Bruins Post Mortem

timlinin8th

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I think next offseason is when trading Chara becomes a possibility because of his cap number dropping.
While true, at that point is it even worth moving him? They would have to fill his spot for that year and may not be able to find better in the FA market at a $4M cap hit. They don't have enough D prospects in the system that would be ready that would be cheap alternatives.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I don't think we can say with any certainty which defensemen in the system will be ready after next season.

Does Zboril take a step up? O'Gara? Grzelcyk? Morrow? Miller? Carlo?
 

timlinin8th

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I don't think we can say with any certainty which defensemen in the system will be ready after next season.

Does Zboril take a step up? O'Gara? Grzelcyk? Morrow? Miller? Carlo?
I agree and probably should have been more clear about this in my previous post, my feeling is with the D already being as weak as it is, if you had a best case scenario and a few of their D prospects managed to make the jump the team would still probably better be served by allowing Chara to play out on the lower cap hit, unless he gets hurt in which case nobody will trade for him.

There's just SO many holes that need to be filled right now, and while some will be filled via moves this offseason I can't envision a scenario where the team will be in a position where they can afford to clear out another D at a reasonable cap hit (albeit a declining one).
 

cshea

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Cam, Charlie and the old man are speaking now. Basically calling the season a failure, but they are on board with Sweeney's plan, whatever that is. They expect to be a playoff team while integrating youth. Of course none of the media there, to my knowledge, asked the obvious follow up of why they shipped out 4 draft picks for Liles and Stempniak if draft and developing is the plan.

To me it is one of the other, but what do I know. Either go all in with the kids or go for the playoffs. Haven't seen a team have any sort of success when trying to do both at the same time.

Edit: Charlie says this is Cam's team, so I guess that would mean the guillotine is dangling over Cam's head if this doesn't work.
 

Toe Nash

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While true, at that point is it even worth moving him? They would have to fill his spot for that year and may not be able to find better in the FA market at a $4M cap hit. They don't have enough D prospects in the system that would be ready that would be cheap alternatives.
His cap number doesn't drop, just the salary he's due does, right? The cap number is the same for the whole contract which is why teams add on extra years at a low salary (and used to do it moreso before they changed the rules).

The $5 or 4m salary with a ~$6.9 cap makes him attractive to teams who have cap space and are looking to save actual money spent, but usually those are bad teams who aren't looking for someone to put them over the top for the playoffs.
 

burstnbloom

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Cam, Charlie and the old man are speaking now. Basically calling the season a failure, but they are on board with Sweeney's plan, whatever that is. They expect to be a playoff team while integrating youth. Of course none of the media there, to my knowledge, asked the obvious follow up of why they shipped out 4 draft picks for Liles and Stempniak if draft and developing is the plan.

To me it is one of the other, but what do I know. Either go all in with the kids or go for the playoffs. Haven't seen a team have any sort of success when trying to do both at the same time.

Edit: Charlie says this is Cam's team, so I guess that would mean the guillotine is dangling over Cam's head if this doesn't work.
Wait, this can't be real. Jimmy Murphy said that Cam was being demoted.
 

The Napkin

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Hey Patrick, you know who's big and strong? Adam McQuaid! And Kevan Miller! Did you see all those pull-ups he did?


 

cshea

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Apparently today was the deadline for the Oilers to decide which pick to send us for the Chiarelli compensation. No surprise, it is next years 2nd round pick. Hey, we can trade it for JML at the deadline!

 

cshea

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DJ Bean had a good primer on what the B's could/should do over the next 2 weeks.

http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/hockey/bruins/dj-bean/2016/06/13/now-offseason-has-come-heres-what-awaits-bruins

Nothing earth shattering, but he lists the B's needs as defense and right wing. UFA D's are not appealing (Yandle, Goligoski), but there are some good RFA D's that might be available (Trouba, Dumba, Vatanen, Barrie) in trade. The problem is that basically 29 teams need D so the Bruins might not have enough assets to win a bidding war for a player like that since a team desperate for D like Edmonton could be dangling a RNH, Eberle type player. On RW, he suggests maybe making a play for Okposo if Eriksson ends up leaving. Good read as the offseason gets underway.
 
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Maximus

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DJ Bean had a good primer on what the B's could/should do over the next 2 weeks.

http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/hockey/bruins/dj-bean/2016/06/13/now-offseason-has-come-heres-what-awaits-bruins

Nothing earth shattering, but he lists the B's needs as defense and right wing. UFA D's are not appealing (Yandle, Goligoski), but there are some good RFA D's that might be available (Trouba, Dumba, Vatanen, Barrie) in trade. The problem is that basically 29 teams need D so the Bruins might not have enough assets to win a bidding war for a player like that since a team desperate for D like Edmonton could be dangling a RNH, Eberle type player. On RW, he suggests maybe making a play for Okposo if Eriksson ends up leaving. Good read as the offseason gets underway.
Sweeney knows he has to trade for a top pairing D from that grouping + Shattenkirk, (Spooner, 1st round pick, etc.). My concern is that he'll overpay. I'd rather have Okposo than Eriksson but he will be expensive.
 
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j44thor

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Bruins traded Hamilton for the 15th, 45th and 52nd picks. Does the 14th and 30th net you Trouba?
Word is he also wants a big $$ long term contract so the financials may be tough but would be nice to fill the hole created last year. No doubt Trouba is more of the mold Sweeney/Neely are looking for.
 

cshea

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The Jets have picks 2 and 22 already. If they move Trouba I think they'd be looking more for an similarly aged, established, NHL player. There have been Duchene for Trouba rumors, and that's the sort of package the Bruins can't compete with.
 

PedroSpecialK

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I keep coming back to Anaheim or Minnesota.

Anaheim has 9 NHL-caliber defensemen under contract or RFA, and the rumors of Goligoski going to MIN seem pretty substantial.

A package headlined by Spooner for any of Dumba, Theodore, Vatanen, etc would fill a huge need. I love Lindholm and Brodin but those teams would need to be nuts to move them.
 

j44thor

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I keep coming back to Anaheim or Minnesota.

Anaheim has 9 NHL-caliber defensemen under contract or RFA, and the rumors of Goligoski going to MIN seem pretty substantial.

A package headlined by Spooner for any of Dumba, Theodore, Vatanen, etc would fill a huge need. I love Lindholm and Brodin but those teams would need to be nuts to move them.
Can Spooner really headline any package? He appears to be the C version of Reilly Smith albeit on a better contract but less proven. He has no defensive value and his offensive ceiling is still questionable after doing nothing last two months of the season. I have a hard time seeing him as a major piece of a Dumba or Vatanen deal. If you include the #14 pick perhaps you can pull something off.
 

TheRealness

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Can Spooner really headline any package? He appears to be the C version of Reilly Smith albeit on a better contract but less proven. He has no defensive value and his offensive ceiling is still questionable after doing nothing last two months of the season. I have a hard time seeing him as a major piece of a Dumba or Vatanen deal. If you include the #14 pick perhaps you can pull something off.
I don't think he can. Buffalo didn't want to trade him for a re-tread power forward in Chris Stewart, and I believe we offered to include a decent draft pick in that offer and they still said no.

I am all for trading Spooner, as I think Austin Czarnik has his speed but appears to be much more of a guy who will mix it up and put himself on the line out there. They are both small and fast, but I would be perfectly fine with them dealing Spooner. I doubt they do it given the contract he has, but if I'm Sweeney I am listening intently and very willing to trade him if a team wants him added to a deal.

My pessimism is at an all time high. I doubt Sweeney even gets a call back for any of the above players, let alone gets a deal done. The defense is going to stay, for the most part, as it is now. But, hey, maybe that Carlo kid can make the leap. Probably our best hope at this point for a remotely viable Defense.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Can Spooner really headline any package? He appears to be the C version of Reilly Smith albeit on a better contract but less proven. He has no defensive value and his offensive ceiling is still questionable after doing nothing last two months of the season. I have a hard time seeing him as a major piece of a Dumba or Vatanen deal. If you include the #14 pick perhaps you can pull something off.
Given his $950k salary and RFA status, I think Spooner carries more value than we'd think at this point. I doubt you get either of Dumba or Vatanen without including #14, or the 2017 1st rounder - but short of beginning to shift pieces like Pastrnak, Carlo, etc I think that's the best bet to try and get quality without forking over $6m AAV for a guy like Yandle.
 

burstnbloom

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I could see Spooner and 29 bringing back Dumba. The issue then is who plays C on the third line? Czarnik?
 

j44thor

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Given his $950k salary and RFA status, I think Spooner carries more value than we'd think at this point. I doubt you get either of Dumba or Vatanen without including #14, or the 2017 1st rounder - but short of beginning to shift pieces like Pastrnak, Carlo, etc I think that's the best bet to try and get quality without forking over $6m AAV for a guy like Yandle.
Dumba is an interesting target, MN already has 30% of their cap tied up in 4D for the next 4+ years. Going to be very tough for them to fit Dumba in long term unless they move one. Doubt they would have interest in Spooner given their depth at C but Pastrnak could be of significant interest both because they have a need at RW and because he can fit into their tight cap space.

Losing Pastrnak would hurt but he is probably the piece a contender would value enough to move a top 4 D. Probably takes Pastrnak + at least the SJ pick, possibly the 14th. Pastrnak + 14 is a lot but I think that is a trade I make. This team needs a top 2D that can play in all situations. Dumba can give you that.
 

McDrew

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I totally support a speculative trade for Dumba, and would be ok giving up one of Spooner/Pastrnak to do so. Offense was not the B's problem last year, and I'm sacrificing a significant piece for an uprade on D, where it actually is needed. If we do get Dumba though, can we ensure he still gets to wear 55?
 

burstnbloom

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Dumba is an interesting target, MN already has 30% of their cap tied up in 4D for the next 4+ years. Going to be very tough for them to fit Dumba in long term unless they move one. Doubt they would have interest in Spooner given their depth at C but Pastrnak could be of significant interest both because they have a need at RW and because he can fit into their tight cap space.

Losing Pastrnak would hurt but he is probably the piece a contender would value enough to move a top 4 D. Probably takes Pastrnak + at least the SJ pick, possibly the 14th. Pastrnak + 14 is a lot but I think that is a trade I make. This team needs a top 2D that can play in all situations. Dumba can give you that.
I would not give up Pasta for Dumba, no way. People talk about him like he is some stalwart but he's not. He's a good offensive minded D that has a tremendous amount of development to do before he is considered a top 2D, if ever. The guy only played 20 min twice last season.
 

j44thor

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Tough to play 20min on a team with Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin etc. MN has a lot of quality D.
Dumba was the #7 overall pick in 2012 and has developed like you would expect. Pastrnak is a potential 30G scorer (though career high is 15) with a lot of work to do both in his own end and away from the puck in general. Seems like they both have top 4/6 potential and if you assume that a D is more valuable than a RW then I think the price starts at Pastr +.
 

kenneycb

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The issue is who would play RW for the B's? Assuming they lose Eriksson, trading Pasta would leave Hayes as the default first line RW, which would be a dumpster fire.
 

burstnbloom

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Tough to play 20min on a team with Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin etc. MN has a lot of quality D.
Dumba was the #7 overall pick in 2012 and has developed like you would expect. Pastrnak is a potential 30G scorer (though career high is 15) with a lot of work to do both in his own end and away from the puck in general. Seems like they both have top 4/6 potential and if you assume that a D is more valuable than a RW then I think the price starts at Pastr +.
I think he played the minutes he played because of his game as much as his competition. He was extremely sheltered in his minutes and as I said before, he didn't have that many. Dumba is not a great defender and may never be. He's got a big shot, good wheels and likes an open ice hit but he's not ready to play against strong competition. He's also going to need a relatively significant deal. Pasta is the bruins most valuable trade chip and I wouldn't move him unless a better player is coming back. I certainly wouldn't trade Pasta and say, Fabbro for the right to pay dumba $4mil.
 

jk333

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The issue is who would play RW for the B's? Assuming they lose Eriksson, trading Pasta would leave Hayes as the default first line RW, which would be a dumpster fire.
Eriksson and Okposo are the best available free agents but will get big long term contracts. Maybe the Bruins could get Backes on shorter term but with a higher cap hit? With his physical play, he'd fit in well with some of the young smaller players like Griffith and Vatrano. http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/right-wing/ufa/

Marchand Bergy Hayes
Vatrano Krejci Backes
Beleskey Spooner Griffith
Vessey Ferraro/Czarnik Connolly

They could also sign Stempniak if they preferred him to Griffith.

Chara Dumba
Krug McQuaid
Morrow* Miller
Miller

The lineup's problems are only 3 top 4D and 4 top 6 forwards.The 3rd and 4th lines would have potential compared to other teams. The defense is still a weakness and injury prone. I hate Morrow as a player.
 

cshea

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I wouldn't be trading Pastrnak. Over 2 seasons, Pastrnak's 2.24 points per 60 at even strength ranks 13th in the entire league over the past 2 seasons. The 12 guys ahead of him? Tarasenko, Benn, Palat, Crosby, Kane, Nash, Mike Hoffman, Seguin, Hudler, Huberdeau, Tyler Johnson and then Wheeler. He has produced at an elite clip, although he has played less than the other players. He needs to bulk up to be stronger on the puck but his ceiling is very high. I know Julien lamented his turnovers, which is certainly an issue, but part of the reason he turns it over a lot is because he has the puck a lot. 52.9% CF since entering the league puts him 3rd on the Bruins behind only Bergeron and Marchand who are possession gods. There aren't a lot of guys that I would trade him for.
 

The B’s Knees

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I wouldn't be trading Pastrnak. Over 2 seasons, Pastrnak's 2.24 points per 60 at even strength ranks 13th in the entire league over the past 2 seasons. The 12 guys ahead of him? Tarasenko, Benn, Palat, Crosby, Kane, Nash, Mike Hoffman, Seguin, Hudler, Huberdeau, Tyler Johnson and then Wheeler. He has produced at an elite clip, although he has played less than the other players. He needs to bulk up to be stronger on the puck but his ceiling is very high. I know Julien lamented his turnovers, which is certainly an issue, but part of the reason he turns it over a lot is because he has the puck a lot. 52.9% CF since entering the league puts him 3rd on the Bruins behind only Bergeron and Marchand who are possession gods. There aren't a lot of guys that I would trade him for.
I agree 100%. Let's not forget that he only turned 20 just last month. Almost half the players selected ahead of him in his draft class haven't even sniffed the NHL yet, and only two (Ekblad and Draisaitl) have played more NHL games.
 

cshea

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The buyout window is 6/15 to 6/30. After that, there is a second window that opens for teams that have a player go to arbitration.
 

burstnbloom

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I wouldn't be trading Pastrnak. Over 2 seasons, Pastrnak's 2.24 points per 60 at even strength ranks 13th in the entire league over the past 2 seasons. The 12 guys ahead of him? Tarasenko, Benn, Palat, Crosby, Kane, Nash, Mike Hoffman, Seguin, Hudler, Huberdeau, Tyler Johnson and then Wheeler. He has produced at an elite clip, although he has played less than the other players. He needs to bulk up to be stronger on the puck but his ceiling is very high. I know Julien lamented his turnovers, which is certainly an issue, but part of the reason he turns it over a lot is because he has the puck a lot. 52.9% CF since entering the league puts him 3rd on the Bruins behind only Bergeron and Marchand who are possession gods. There aren't a lot of guys that I would trade him for.
Totally agree. If Pasta goes I need a very good young players back. Lindholm or someone of his caliber that has it all.
 

veritas

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Agree with all the Pasta love. I don't trade him for any of the players mentioned, even Lindholm, who is the best of the D-men talked about in this thread. It would be incredibly short sighted to trade a player with his offensive upside, especially with no real chance of the Bruins being great next season. For this team to rebuild it's going to need to develop some elite players and IMO he has the potential to be a top 10 NHL forward. For a team with a much stronger roster, poised to be serious contenders over the next 2 years, Lindholm would make a ton of sense. But that's not the Bruins.
 

burstnbloom

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I can't say that I strongly disagree but Lindholm is a legit top pair D. He is big, can skate, is good offensively and is a possession monster. I see the upside in Pasta but I'd,move him for that, depending on what else needed to be included, of course.
 

Dummy Hoy

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You know- that would probably be a really even deal...20 year old potential top 20 scorer for 22 year old potential #1 D.
 

j44thor

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You know- that would probably be a really even deal...20 year old potential top 20 scorer for 22 year old potential #1 D.
Except one is already a top pairing D. The other requires a massive amount of projection. I think Pastr is getting massively overrated here. His offensive potential is high but his defense needs so much work. I don't think Pastr gets you anywhere close to a young top pairing D unless you include significant draft assets equal to him. We've seen what it actually takes to acquire a top pairing D with the Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones trade this past season. Pastr is not currently a Ryan Johansen.
 

jk333

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Pasta for Lindholm would need a pretty big addition from the Bruins. Lindholm is a top pair D who has real #1 potential. I'd expect the Bruins would have to include at least a 1st round pick.

He's also a left defensemen which isn't ideal for next year's team but I would make the trade because it helps the current core compete. Pastrnak can be part of the core next year but it won't matter without a 3rd competent D. They have to give up fewer goals.

If the plan is to develop the picks like Veritas says, they need to make some moves to the core. A Marchand trade is needed, they can't lose Eriksson and Marchand in two years without getting any return. They should also look to trade Krejci if he has any value. I prefer to bolster the current core because I don't see any player coming up that will be more elite than Bergeron is now. Marchand and Krejci are very good now.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Except one is already a top pairing D. The other requires a massive amount of projection. I think Pastr is getting massively overrated here. His offensive potential is high but his defense needs so much work. I don't think Pastr gets you anywhere close to a young top pairing D unless you include significant draft assets equal to him. We've seen what it actually takes to acquire a top pairing D with the Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones trade this past season. Pastr is not currently a Ryan Johansen.
That's a good comp, and you're right, Pasta isn't currently Ryan Johansen (although I don't think it's far fetched that he will be)
 

cshea

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I would considere Pastrnak for Lindholm, but I'd argue that Pastrnak is ahead of where Johnansen was at the same stage of his career. Johnansen had 107 games, 33 points in his first 2 years. Pastrnak has had 53 points in 97 games. Johansen also had the benefit of an extra year in junior. We'll see where he goes from here, Johansen's leap came in his 3rd NHL season. Johansen already had broken out when he was traded, but I think dangling Pastrnak would net a similar return. I don't think they would have to attach a lot of other assets to Pastrnak to land a #1.
 

cshea

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In real news, Peter Cehlarik signed his ELC.


11g, 9a in 46 SEL games last year. 6 foot 1, 194 lb left shot winger.
 

burstnbloom

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I would considere Pastrnak for Lindholm, but I'd argue that Pastrnak is ahead of where Johnansen was at the same stage of his career. Johnansen had 107 games, 33 points in his first 2 years. Pastrnak has had 53 points in 97 games. Johansen also had the benefit of an extra year in junior. We'll see where he goes from here, Johansen's leap came in his 3rd NHL season. Johansen already had broken out when he was traded, but I think dangling Pastrnak would net a similar return. I don't think they would have to attach a lot of other assets to Pastrnak to land a #1.
Johansen is also 1 year away from demanding $8mil plus a year, which he will given his history, and was traded at the lowest point of his value after his organization let it get out into the public that his work ethic issues were becoming a problem. I don't think it's apples to oranges.

Regarding the hypothetical trade I brought up, I would also consider it but I don't think the ducks do it unless the Bruins add and that is where I start to get iffy. I value Pasta highly and I would imagine the Ducks value Lindholm even more so adding a lot from the bBruins is a bit scary. I think they are much more likely to move Vatanen, though, and I am less interested in him.