The Bill Simmons Thread

kenneycb

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Simmons also mentioned on his podcast that nobody watches TV in July. No idea if that's based on any facts or any historical basis but he at least knew the ratings for this week, which I liked, especially the Bosh pieces, were going to be shit.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Simmons also mentioned on his podcast that nobody watches TV in July. No idea if that's based on any facts or any historical basis but he at least knew the ratings for this week, which I liked, especially the Bosh pieces, were going to be shit.
Doesn't seem like a smart decision to debut his show in a month where no one watches TV.
 

Carmine Hose

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Or is it? Get the kinks worked out and filter all the various internal and external feedback so tighten up the product while waiting for a larger audience to get back on their couches, at least for traditional-type HBO watchers.

Since he has a long term deal, I don't think he has to come out with a bang like other TV shows.
 

8slim

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TV usage tends to be lower in the summer, but that's a bit of a cop out. People still watch a TON of TV this time of year. His ratings are low because the appeal of a show like his is niche. And ratings aren't terribly important to HBO anyway.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Or is it? Get the kinks worked out and filter all the various internal and external feedback so tighten up the product while waiting for a larger audience to get back on their couches, at least for traditional-type HBO watchers.

Since he has a long term deal, I don't think he has to come out with a bang like other TV shows.
I guess. But if you're not ready and you come out with four stinkers in a row (and I'm not saying that his last four shows are stinkers, I saw the first one and was fascinated that someone could film another person staring at teleprompter on the ceiling reading to me) who's going to stick around for the fifth week or seventh week or eleventh week when things "get better"?

Can it happen? Sure. John Oliver's first couple of shows weren't great, but I'm not sure if that's the best way to break in a new show.

But both you and 8slim are right: he's got a long term deal and HBO doesn't really give a shit about ratings. So Simmons will be fine.
 

rmurph3

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HBO/Simmons also seem to have been pretty clear from the get-go that this show is targeted toward the HBO GO demographic/crowd. These ratings may not be the primary way they are evaluating the audience.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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I just think the show's bad right now. Way, way too much Bill Simmons. Eventually he'll hit his stride, and realize that he needs to let the strength of his guests carry things, and that weird monologues with jokes that pretty much all fall flat have nothing in common with what's made him so successful as a podcaster.

Right now he just feels completely constrained by the medium. It's like he felt the format had to look like a scaled down version of Bill Maher or John Oliver, and Simmons doesn't have the presence or skill as a performer to carry segments on his own. And I'm not sure it's something he'll grow into, either. It just feels flat and completely void of energy.
 

blueline

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He's also significantly cut down on podcasts since the show started. Only 4 in the last month. It's understandable given the amount of time he probably has to dedicate to TV, but I far prefer podcasts to the show for a number of reasons.
 

JBill

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He's also significantly cut down on podcasts since the show started. Only 4 in the last month. It's understandable given the amount of time he probably has to dedicate to TV, but I far prefer podcasts to the show for a number of reasons.
He said it was going to be one a week while the show is in the early stages.
 

Three10toLeft

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I've only watched the extra material from the Aaron Rodgers interview, but after listening to this podcast of odds and ends from all the other interviews it seems like they should hire a new editor, or at least extend the time limit of the show to 45 minutes.

Barkley's speed round was hilarious. And Ben Affleck's reflection on the early days of his career was lightyears better than his Deflategate rant.
 

Mooch

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I've only watched the extra material from the Aaron Rodgers interview, but after listening to this podcast of odds and ends from all the other interviews it seems like they should hire a new editor, or at least extend the time limit of the show to 45 minutes.

Barkley's speed round was hilarious. And Ben Affleck's reflection on the early days of his career was lightyears better than his Deflategate rant.
I agree. The stuff they cut out has been more compelling than what they've aired.

After a few episodes, it seems like the format might work better with either a funny co-host or maybe pairing up a weekly comedian with a sports or entertainment person for a discussion. Bill can't really carry a show on his own.
 

allstonite

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I actually thought the episode was pretty good last night.
I agree. I rolled my eyes when I saw he talked about deflategate again but then I watched it and it was well done. I wish that was the only time his show touched on it because he's not good arguing about it for real.

Rapaport is great. "Watch his upper lip curl when he looks at this picture! Look at it!"
 

Dehere

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LOL, down to 163,000 viewers last night.
8 million dollars. 163,000 viewers for 30 minutes a week.

Worst TV talent deal of all time. If there has ever been a worse ratio of dollars spent to viewers attracted I'd love to know what it is.
 

JimD

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Pretty fair criticism here: http://thebiglead.com/2016/08/01/bill-simmons-and-any-given-wednesday-it-has-issues-but-its-still-early/

A good parallel for “Any Given Wednesday” is “Last Week Tonight.” Both shows face a similar challenge. They are on for a half hour, once a week. Every news story has been picked apart by the time it airs. Any timely joke has been made on Twitter. You have to take a different approach.

John Oliver does what the rest of the media doesn’t. He takes a comprehensive, mutlifaceted look at a specific topic. It’s funny and irreverent. But, it’s also considered and very well researched. He makes you laugh and does the defining TV work on whatever topic he’s tackling. He changes the conversation. Those pieces get shared on social media and in real life. He has a “steaming, profane Ben Affleck” video or better every week, without a celebrity.

The scripted segments are where “Any Given Wednesday” has potential. Those need to be much stronger. Topics must be fresh. Insight has to be novel and essential. The rest of the sports world has come to terms with Deflategate. Move on. “Baseball HOF sanctimony” and “James Dolan’s ineptitude” are well trodden. “Tim Duncan was good at basketball” isn’t going to set social media alight.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Well, theres some conflicting ideas in there, and maybe thats the point.

If by Wednesday, most of the news for the week has been beaten to death, Simmons has to revert to non-timely news (deflategate, baseball HoF, James Dolan, etc) since he can't compete with timely news due to the timeslot. The only way he'll be able to succeed by focusing on more universal topics, however, will be with fresh takes. It's really hard to find fresh takes on topics that are multiple weeks/months old.

I'm in the minority on this forum in that I actually don't mind the show. I do think there's been a clear improvement on the show from episode 1 to today, but I also realize that there needs to be much more significant growth if the show is going to succeed.

One thing I think could help is expanding the interview portion of the show. If Simmons has set pieces that he really thinks will work, throw them in. But I wanted to hear more from Chris Bosh about the process of joining a superteam. I wanted to hear more from Cuban and Gladwell when they started a strong disagreement about publicly financed sports stadiums. I want to hear more from Aaron Rodgers about concussions (as he's potentially one away from being Steve Young). I wanted to hear more from Danny McBride about fucking anything. Simmons' strength has either been in his long form casual writing style, or his ability to get casual interviews with interesting answers (his weakness being that he never fucking follows up on those interesting answers). I know that there is bonus material online or whatever, but thats not how most people operate. They want to sit down for a dumb sports TV show. They don't want to start tracking shit around the internet and fast forwarding through videos to find some snippets of cool information.

Anyway, I think theres enough interesting tidbits throughout a show to keep me recording this on the DVR and watching it while the wife sleeps and theres nothing on the TV at 11PM. I don't think the show as currently constituted will survive for very long, however.
 
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dirtynine

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I think a revamped show with Simmons and two interesting guests from different parts of the sports and/or pop culture worlds would work well. A 25-minute interview show, with no superfluous segments, on a pared-down set. Cold open, just the three of them sitting around a table. Maybe you put a few props in the middle to indicate what's on the agenda (a particular football helmet or a ball or a NY Post back cover or something). Bill starts them talking. Maybe halfway through they run through an exercise like a speed round or something, or they throw it to a pre-taped 2-3 minute news segment style piece and return to talk about it. But no prepared comedy, monologues or skits. Ideally Simmons would just set up the topics, spur conversation, be the glue that connects the guests, and and then generally get out of the way. Call it The Triangle or The Weave or something. I don't enjoy Simmons very much any more but I'd watch that.
 

8slim

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8 million dollars. 163,000 viewers for 30 minutes a week.

Worst TV talent deal of all time. If there has ever been a worse ratio of dollars spent to viewers attracted I'd love to know what it is.
I'm sure HBO would claim that the ratings don't matter, per se, and that they signed him to bolster their original content lineup, appeal to Millenials, and sell HBO NOW subscriptions direct-to-consumer.

Now, I can't imagine many people have subscribed to HBO NOW because of him, but I imagine that's what they would say.
 

johnmd20

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On Simmons' last podcast with House, it highlighted the worst of Simmons. Take an opinion, "The PGA golf tournament is awful, has no soul, because it's awful to me and therefore awful to everyone," and broadly generalize that it's a complete waste of time. I am not sure where he's coming from on that topic. The PGA is a great tourney. It's a weak hottake.

Otherwise, good podcast. It's stupid when he does this, tho. It's CHB-esque.
 

Remagellan

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On Simmons' last podcast with House, it highlighted the worst of Simmons. Take an opinion, "The PGA golf tournament is awful, has no soul, because it's awful to me and therefore awful to everyone," and broadly generalize that it's a complete waste of time. I am not sure where he's coming from on that topic. The PGA is a great tourney. It's a weak hottake.

Otherwise, good podcast. It's stupid when he does this, tho. It's CHB-esque.
Hey, it's nothing that couldn't be fixed by having the golfers carry their own clubs!
 

kenneycb

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On Simmons' last podcast with House, it highlighted the worst of Simmons. Take an opinion, "The PGA golf tournament is awful, has no soul, because it's awful to me and therefore awful to everyone," and broadly generalize that it's a complete waste of time. I am not sure where he's coming from on that topic. The PGA is a great tourney. It's a weak hottake.

Otherwise, good podcast. It's stupid when he does this, tho. It's CHB-esque.
Well we did have more or less the same discussion in the PGA thread so it's not like a hot take out of thin air. At least to me, the PGA seems like the "least" important major (for no real rational reason as I think about it more) but YMMV.
 

soxfan121

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On Simmons' last podcast with House, it highlighted the worst of Simmons. Take an opinion, "The PGA golf tournament is awful, has no soul, because it's awful to me and therefore awful to everyone," and broadly generalize that it's a complete waste of time. I am not sure where he's coming from on that topic. The PGA is a great tourney. It's a weak hottake.

Otherwise, good podcast. It's stupid when he does this, tho. It's CHB-esque.
Hot takes get more views. The temptation to use them, even if it's just mixed in to an otherwise good podcast, is pretty big.

That said, the specifics of this hot take are really weak and stupid. Who gives a fuck about golf? My dad didn't even bat an eye when I called him for his opinion on the 8th green this morning. "Who cares? You love it or you hate it...and I gotta go. My turn to putt. Talk to you later."
 
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johnmd20

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Well we did have more or less the same discussion in the PGA thread so it's not like a hot take out of thin air. At least to me, the PGA seems like the "least" important major (for no real rational reason as I think about it more) but YMMV.
And that discussion was ridiculous, too. The PGA in the last few years had Keegan Bradley winning after splashing a ball late in the round. It had the amazing Dustin Johnson grounding club debacle at Whistling. A couple of Rory wins. Obviously, the tourney where YE Yang, in the final round, ground down Tiger before his SUV accident. And Jason Day's first major win last year and JW's win this year.

It's a great tourney and it doesn't need to be fixed and it's nothing like the Australian Open, which has its own issues mainly due to time zones.
 

kenneycb

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And that discussion was ridiculous, too. The PGA in the last few years had Keegan Bradley winning after splashing a ball late in the round. It had the amazing Dustin Johnson grounding club debacle at Whistling. A couple of Rory wins. Obviously, the tourney where YE Yang, in the final round, ground down Tiger before his SUV accident. And Jason Day's first major win last year and JW's win this year.

It's a great tourney and it doesn't need to be fixed and it's nothing like the Australian Open, which has its own issues mainly due to time zones.
You're not arguing the same thing as me. I didn't say it's been boring, just that it feels less important.
 

johnmd20

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It probably hasn't helped him that he went 5-6 weeks without doing many podcasts because he was ramping up for his TV show.
 

ifmanis5

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It probably hasn't helped him that he went 5-6 weeks without doing many podcasts because he was ramping up for his TV show.
True. And most of his guests were his dad, House and Bananas.
I thought his new gig would give him access to better guests on the podcast. So far, it's been the same or worse.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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True. And most of his guests were his dad, House and Bananas.
I thought his new gig would give him access to better guests on the podcast. So far, it's been the same or worse.
I would suspect he'd probably rather have the better guests on his show than on his podcast for now, while trying to build up the brand for his show.

It's a shame because I much prefer him in podcasts form.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I would suspect he'd probably rather have the better guests on his show than on his podcast for now, while trying to build up the brand for his show.

It's a shame because I much prefer him in podcasts form.
What would probably be a best of both worlds scenario is sitting down with his guest for an hour on camera, edit it down to the best 15-20 minutes for the show, then put the whole interview up as a podcast the day or week after the episode airs.
 

ifmanis5

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Feels like his podcast career has slowly faded into a mirror of his writing career.

When he first burst onto the scene with his blog/column he got there first, wrote with a voice and point of view that was fresh (certainly in comparison to traditional written media of the time) and it seemed his possibilities were limitless. He certainly thought so as he trashed some of those easy targets that had been mailing in the same columns for years. However, as time went on he fell into the same trap. All those possibilities had gone away as he chased a TV career and started up his website but what was left of his writing was only the NFL picks column on a regular basis. And it was the same column over and over. He became what he used to mock. It was basically a dead end.

With his podcast once again he got their first, which has been his real secret of success. There were very few podcasts at all when he started, let alone sports content, and once again the possibilities were wide open (well, as much as ESPN was willing to let him, but still) as to what he could do with it, who he could talk to and what it could be about. Years later his podcast has slowly devolved into the same old Cousin Sal picks and lots of hoops talk. Yet even the NBA analysis has been degraded to where it's mainly just House giving him 'atta boys and useless 'I love watching xx play basketball!' He's with a new company, I presume they would love to see him stretch out with some higher quality guests and grow his audience rather than just talk to his dad again. His producer seems to be of no help. Is that all there is? Again?
 

WayBackVazquez

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Simmons's lead-in tomorrow is Straight Outta Compton, so his theme is apparently black people and weed. Guests are Rembert Browne, Seth Rogan, and Ricky Williams as the double box checker.

I guess HBO didn't have a Wahlberg, Damon, or Farrelly brother flick queued up.
 

kenneycb

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Those guests are interesting as all hell. Not sure what would lead you to believe the theme as being "black people" outside of the fact that Rembert, who is hilarious and well versed on a wide variety of topics, and Williams, who hasn't spoken up about much outside of the use of weed, are black.