EdRo tweaks right knee (the bad one) in winter ball

Papelbon's Poutine

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So that we can go back into luxury tax status and have an even more injury prone guy battle for the fifth rotation slot?

It's winter ball. I'd imagine they pull players - especially pitchers - over any discomfort. Let's not freak out huh?
 

SouthernBoSox

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He is playing winter ball to get ready for the WBC.

They really need to sit him down and explain that he shouldn't play in the WBC. He needs to be 100% going into the season.
 

Rovin Romine

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Can we give the bag of balls back and get Clay back?
Counting Skillz:

One Starting Pitcher - Price
Two Staring Pitchers - Price and Porcello
Three Starting Pitchers - Price, Porcello and Sale
Four Starting Pitchers - Price, Porcello, Sale, and Pomeranz
Five, That's Five, Starting Pitchers - Price, Porcello, Sale, Pomeranz, and Wright!
 

Cesar Crespo

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He is playing winter ball to get ready for the WBC.

They really need to sit him down and explain that he shouldn't play in the WBC. He needs to be 100% going into the season.
He's probably going to be pitching anyway so does it really matter where? Hanley is doing the same thing atm.
 

moondog80

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Is there any reason to think this is anything more than precautionary?
 

snowmanny

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So that we can go back into luxury tax status and have an even more injury prone guy battle for the fifth rotation slot?

It's winter ball. I'd imagine they pull players - especially pitchers - over any discomfort. Let's not freak out huh?
Let's not freak out? Have you met us?
 

The Gray Eagle

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Edit: Now the thread title says right knee, so it agrees with the article.
 
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Green Monster

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I know this news has been tempered with "nothing serious", however this is what we were told last spring......"skipping start as precaution, etc, etc"........it ended up being an issue for nearly half the season and now apparently its still not 100%. If there is a silver lining here, perhaps he will back out of the WBC as a result.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Also sometime in the last week the Globe went on record saying how it was a *good* sign that he wanted to play in the WBC.
Why is this even a thing? (I know, marketing and money). What GM in their right mind wants to see their players missing spring training time and entering a field of play at full gait?

Plus, I hate the idea of breaking down teams into ethnic/national groups. Kumbaya and all that.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Why is this even a thing? (I know, marketing and money). What GM in their right mind wants to see their players missing spring training time and entering a field of play at full gait?

Plus, I hate the idea of breaking down teams into ethnic/national groups. Kumbaya and all that.
They may prefer it, but they don't seem to care too much and sometimes even ask players to play over the winter and make a big deal about it when they don't. Hi, Will Middlebrooks. He pitched 170 innings in 2015 and 145 in 2016, so maybe they wanted him to get a little extra work in the winter regardless of the WBC.

There was the whole DiceK thing to sour us on the WBC, but EdRod would be pitching somewhere else if he wasn't for Navegantes del Magallanes.
 

moondog80

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ESPN has a story (I'd link but I'm on my phone) where DD says he tweaked it after slipping on a wet mound, he's not really concerned and they're not going to have him examined.
 

geoduck no quahog

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They may prefer it, but they don't seem to care too much and sometimes even ask players to play over the winter and make a big deal about it when they don't. Hi, Will Middlebrooks. He pitched 170 innings in 2015 and 145 in 2016, so maybe they wanted him to get a little extra work in the winter regardless of the WBC.

There was the whole DiceK thing to sour us on the WBC, but EdRod would be pitching somewhere else if he wasn't for Navegantes del Magallanes.
This is why I ask questions on the site. Thanks.
 

Erik Hanson's Hook

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He's probably going to be pitching anyway so does it really matter where?
EdRod would be pitching somewhere else if he wasn't for Navegantes del Magallanes.
Could you elaborate on this? No snark intended. Was it always a given that he would log innings this off season? Seems like kind of a strange decision from the FO, given that he dealt with injury issues this past year.

Personally, I would have liked to see him get a good couple months of rest.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Could you elaborate on this? No snark intended. Was it always a given that he would log innings this off season? Seems like kind of a strange decision from the FO, given that he dealt with injury issues this past year.

Personally, I would have liked to see him get a good couple months of rest.
Just my opinion. Many young Latin American pitchers pitch in Winter Leagues, especially if they missed time during the regular season. Plus, I don't think it's a decision from the FO at all. But if they had huge issue with it, we'd have heard some stink prior to him being injured. I'd rather EdRod not pitch off a wet mount, but outside of that I don't see how he's more likely to be injured here than doing whatever off season throwing regimen he has. These winter league games aren't super serious affairs.
 

rembrat

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Just my opinion. Many young Latin American pitchers pitch in Winter Leagues, especially if they missed time during the regular season. Plus, I don't think it's a decision from the FO at all. But if they had huge issue with it, we'd have heard some stink prior to him being injured. I'd rather EdRod not pitch off a wet mount, but outside of that I don't see how he's more likely to be injured here than doing whatever off season throwing regimen he has. These winter league games aren't super serious affairs.

Right.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Guess it depends on your take of the word super serious. I doubt EdRod is going balls to the walls pitching for Navegantes del Magallanes but I could be wrong. I'd be far more worried about him doing that in the WBC.
 

In my lifetime

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Of course, the bigger picture issue is that patellar subluxation is typically caused by anatomic issues. Strengthening the Quad and stretching the hamstring can help somewhat, but for an athlete who is constantly landing on his foot with a substantial amount of force, this type of injury is likely to become recurrent. Depending on the anatomic issue, surgery may or may not be an answer. I will let our Orthopedic forum members (Dave Roberts' shoes) comment more precisely.
 

NDame616

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Guess it depends on your take of the word super serious. I doubt EdRod is going balls to the walls pitching for Navegantes del Magallanes but I could be wrong. I'd be far more worried about him doing that in the WBC.
So you think he's going to go there, pitch at say, 80%. risk injury and screwing up his mechanics (or maybe get lazy and go back to tipping pitches)? I think in any winter league, pitchers are the position that is most likely to play at full effort, because there are risks if you don't. This isn't like a fat DH being told not to try to go 1st to 3rd on a single. If pitchers aren't going "balls to the wall" bad things can happen
 

Cesar Crespo

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So you think he's going to go there, pitch at say, 80%. risk injury and screwing up his mechanics (or maybe get lazy and go back to tipping pitches)? I think in any winter league, pitchers are the position that is most likely to play at full effort, because there are risks if you don't. This isn't like a fat DH being told not to try to go 1st to 3rd on a single. If pitchers aren't going "balls to the wall" bad things can happen
Maybe, but if the games are such a serious affair, why is everyone using them as tune up games for the WBC? Sounds like an exhibition. And if he's going to pitch at full effort regardless, it doesn't matter where he is pitching unless you just don't want him pitching at all.
 

Cesar Crespo

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You really think that an athlete with typical competitive spirit is going to half-ass a season of winter ball in their home country?
I think he would treat it far less seriously than he would a MLB game and is far less worried about his results. He'd also be more likely to experiment.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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While NESN's news isn't the worst I've ever heard, if EdRo has to take it even slower than most pitchers next month when pitchers and catchers report, then I suspect the Sox may want to keep Kelly stretched out as a starter in Fort Myers, making him understudy for the 7th starter role previously held by Clay Buchholz.

Because let's face it -- even Joe Kelly's unrealized potential is a better option for a non-spot 7th starter than Johnson or Owens, and almost certainly a better option than Elias. At least one of the three of them really should be converted to a lefty reliever this season...maybe two of them.
 

Rasputin

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While NESN's news isn't the worst I've ever heard, if EdRo has to take it even slower than most pitchers next month when pitchers and catchers report, then I suspect the Sox may want to keep Kelly stretched out as a starter in Fort Myers, making him understudy for the 7th starter role previously held by Clay Buchholz.

Because let's face it -- even Joe Kelly's unrealized potential is a better option for a non-spot 7th starter than Johnson or Owens, and almost certainly a better option than Elias. At least one of the three of them really should be converted to a lefty reliever this season...maybe two of them.
I think you're forgetting about Steven Wright. I think he'd be the first candidate and I'm not sure Kelly is a candidate at all. He could do it, but they've decided he's a reliever so I would imagine they want to not jerk him around.

I'm guessing that Elias is the first lefty reliever depth with Johnson the first starter depth no on the big club, and I suspect Owens gets converted to relief sometime this year.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I think you're forgetting about Steven Wright. I think he'd be the first candidate and I'm not sure Kelly is a candidate at all. He could do it, but they've decided he's a reliever so I would imagine they want to not jerk him around.

I'm guessing that Elias is the first lefty reliever depth with Johnson the first starter depth no on the big club, and I suspect Owens gets converted to relief sometime this year.
I think since he was talking about 7th starter, he already had Wright pegged as sixth. Unless I'm missing someone.
 

chrisfont9

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I think he would treat it far less seriously than he would a MLB game and is far less worried about his results. He'd also be more likely to experiment.
This may be true, but physically speaking you have to be ready to throw a baseball more or less the same way you do in an MLB game, at least at a batting-practice level if not something close to 100%. I'd guess (what do I know?) that there's a distinction in terms of arm effort but for his lower body -- which is what we're talking about -- surely it's basically the same thing?
 

shaggydog2000

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This may be true, but physically speaking you have to be ready to throw a baseball more or less the same way you do in an MLB game, at least at a batting-practice level if not something close to 100%. I'd guess (what do I know?) that there's a distinction in terms of arm effort but for his lower body -- which is what we're talking about -- surely it's basically the same thing?
Wouldn't you think that the much lower level of competition would mean he only needed to go max effort much less often than an MLB game, and would be putting himself under much less stress? Sure there are some other Major Leaguers, but mostly it's minor league guys and local players, right? Throwing fewer pitches per inning, and less pitches per game, not throwing when he is already tired and likely to lose his mechanics.
 

chrisfont9

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Wouldn't you think that the much lower level of competition would mean he only needed to go max effort much less often than an MLB game, and would be putting himself under much less stress? Sure there are some other Major Leaguers, but mostly it's minor league guys and local players, right? Throwing fewer pitches per inning, and less pitches per game, not throwing when he is already tired and likely to lose his mechanics.
Oh, OK that sounds logical. If knee issues are related to repetition (and surely that's *a* factor), then that should mean winter league is less stressful in its lower number of reps.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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I think since he was talking about 7th starter, he already had Wright pegged as sixth. Unless I'm missing someone.
That's exactly what I meant. Even if the top-3 starters each make 34 turns through the rotation, that leaves 60 starts. There's still likely a real need for depth reaching 7 starters deep.

Last season the guy penciled in to start the season at #6 (Wright) got 24 starts and the team gave up its top pitching prospect for a #7 (Pomeranz) able to make 13 decent starts after the other options had all spit the bit.

AS STARTER (MLB CAREER):
Wright - 4.04 FIP, 4.60 xFIP
Rodriguez - 4.16 FIP, 4.37 xFIP
Pomeranz - 4.21 FIP, 4.08 xFIP
Kelly - 4.27 FIP, 4.21 xFIP
Elias - 4.33 FIP, 4.18 xFIP
Johnson - 4.52 FIP, 5.54 xFIP
Owens - 5.00 FIP, 5.34 xFIP

AS RELIEVER (MLB CAREER):
Pomeranz - 3.10 FIP, 3.31 xFIP
Kelly - 3.37 FIP, 3.41 xFIP
Wright - 4.02 FIP, 4.03 xFIP
Elias - 4.14 FIP, 5.73 xFIP
Rodriguez - no data
Owens - no data
Johnson - no data

Honestly, by career FIP/xFIP splits a case could easily be made where both Kelly and Pomeranz shuffle off to the pen, Wright and EdRo are made the #4-5 starters, and Elias rides the Pawtucket shuttle as the #6.

But, due to SSS, it's not likely to be much of a good case. What actually happens appears more likely to depend on player health, management's preferences, expectations of improved performance, and spring training results.

Still, IMO if he's healthy then Wright should be the #5 starter rather than in the bullpen, at least to start the year before the weather gets too hot.
 

Cesar Crespo

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This may be true, but physically speaking you have to be ready to throw a baseball more or less the same way you do in an MLB game, at least at a batting-practice level if not something close to 100%. I'd guess (what do I know?) that there's a distinction in terms of arm effort but for his lower body -- which is what we're talking about -- surely it's basically the same thing?
As I mentioned before, this could all be true but then it becomes an issue of him pitching vs resting, not where he is pitching. It wouldn't matter if he's pitching to a net in his backyard or in winter ball. I don't know a pitchers workout regimen in the winter, but I doubt EdRod shuts it down completely and that pitching a game in winter ball isn't any more taxing on his body than his daily routine. I know they throw a lot, but I'm guessing they still pitch. Plus what Shaggydog said, and what I meant by "super serious." The talent ranges from rookie ball players to Hanley Ramirez, but overall it's probably a notch below AAA.

These leagues are usually full of ex MLB players, MLB players supporting their homeland by making a few appearances, players who were injured, and players working on a new pitch, a new swing or a new defensive position.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I guess Brandon Workman would be in the mix as a PawSox starter, putting him in the potential 7th starter discussion.
While NESN's news isn't the worst I've ever heard, if EdRo has to take it even slower than most pitchers next month when pitchers and catchers report, then I suspect the Sox may want to keep Kelly stretched out as a starter in Fort Myers, making him understudy for the 7th starter role previously held by Clay Buchholz.
Workman was converted to the bullpen and I don't see that changing, especially coming off his injury. He was always projected to be a bullpen arm anyway and was dreadful in his 20 innings last year. On the slim chance he is in the mix, I don't see him being a better option than Johnson or Owens.

As far as Joe Kelly, I think that ship has sailed. Last year, his combined bullpen line in AAA/MLB was 27g 37.1ip 24h, 3er, 1hr, 7bb, 49k and an .830 WHIP. .183/.223/.244 overall slash line. It's time to find out what he can really do over a bigger sample. edit: 35.3% K rate, 5.0% bb

With regards to 7th starter, chances are it's some guy who isn't even on the roster yet making 3-4 starts mixed in with a few starts from Johnson and Owens as well. You really aren't going to get a much better 7th starter anyway.
 

phenweigh

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Workman was converted to the bullpen and I don't see that changing, especially coming off his injury. He was always projected to be a bullpen arm anyway and was dreadful in his 20 innings last year. On the slim chance he is in the mix, I don't see him being a better option than Johnson or Owens.
I don't really disagree with what you're saying, but I think the chance he is in the mix might be more than slim. Pitchers have returned from Tommy John surgery as starters. Workman has started before, and absent possible acquisitions there is room in the PawSox rotation. The Sox currently seem to have more relief depth than starter depth with Clay gone. (Though I guess that's based on my low opinion of Elias, Johnson, and Owens) The Sox may change their mind about how to best use Workman as an asset. If/when the Sox need to call up a starter, whoever is chosen will have earned the promotion ... it won't be based on who seemed most likely to succeed in January.
 

leftfieldlegacy

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E Rod will not pitch in the WBC. Hopefully this is just precautionary and not indicative of an injury more serious than previously thought.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213920190/eduardo-rodriguez-wont-pitch-in-classic/?topicid=209143850
Red Sox lefty Eduardo Rodriguez won't pitch for Venezuela in the World Baseball Classic due to a minor right knee injury he sustained in winter ball last month.

"Given what transpired in his last start in Venezuela, we'd like to hold him out," Red Sox manager John Farrell said. "We need to determine that physically, there are no issues or questions about his knee."

Rodriguez injured that same knee in a fielding drill during Spring Training last year and started the season on the disabled list.