Goddammit, I miss DRS because he was an awesome guy, but I miss him even more in times like this. Without knowing the grade of the strain, we're looking at a range between days and months. So yes, Giannis suffered the same injury, but the severity is absolutely critical to determine here.Same injury Giannis suffered. Obviously we don’t know the severity, or how he’ll respond to treatment/rest, but it seems doubtful we see him soon.
Although tbf, Giannis will be out much longer, because his team is going home tonightMy sister is an athletic trainer and she thinks he’ll be out as long as Giannis because they won’t want setbacks given his prior injury history.
Bingo!!!Although tbf, Giannis will be out much longer, because his team is going home tonight
Giannis has had achilles problems in the same foot for months and might well have a higher grade strain. KP injured his other calf like 4 months ago and fully healed. Not sure I understand?My sister is an athletic trainer and she thinks he’ll be out as long as Giannis because they won’t want setbacks given his prior injury history.
I hope so, but it's been odd that he's been glued to the bench so far--I expected at least a few minutes with a huge lead and KP out last night. Al is going to wear out if it's a 2-man rotation with Kornet until KP is back.Tillman is going to get an opportunity also now.
I'm not so certain. Tillman seems like insurance for Al with Kornet in the Porzingis role. Barring further issues, I'd expect to see Tillman now about as much as we've seen Kornet to this point.Tillman is going to get an opportunity also now.
Agree. No need to do anything but a Horford/Kornet rotation against the upcoming matchups and Miami.I'm not so certain. Tillman seems like insurance for Al with Kornet in the Porzingis role. Barring further issues, I'd expect to see Tillman now about as much as we've seen Kornet to this point.
What rule change was that?Seems about as good as could be hoped for, given initial concerns. It helps a lot that the rest of the East is mediocre or injured, but the C's top 8 even without KP is just a really, really good team.
One under-talked-about thing is that KP just hasn't been the same cheat code since they changed the rules in Feb. You can really body him now, and stop that FT-line postup from being 1.5 points or whatever stupidity it was in the Old NBA. I don't think they'll miss him quite as much as people worry about.
Not a rule change but a directive from the league to call the game differently. Basically, let them play. It's hurt KP's numbers.What rule change was that?
I think it’s likely he’d be back by the ECF (21 days away). They certainly should be able to get that far.Celtics should be able to make the finals without him
Key word should. But given the stated timetable, back for the Finals sounds like an attainable goal, provided we get there.
This team without KP is still better than last year’s team with bummy Timelord. I think the Knicks are legitimately good and a significant threat to Boston without KP (even with him), but it’s not like Boston couldn’t beat them or even a WC team in the finals without him. They’re loaded.Seems about as good as could be hoped for, given initial concerns. It helps a lot that the rest of the East is mediocre or injured, but the C's top 8 even without KP is just a really, really good team.
Different calf.This may have been reported somewhere, but do we know if he has injured the same calf at the start of the season as he did last night? Or was it the other one.
As most folks here know, repetitive injures to the same muscle tend compound in severity/recovery time, and also make the muscle more prone to further injury in the future
With all due respect to your sister, without having examined the severity of the injury and possibly without understanding the context of playoffs v. regular season, how would she know?My sister is an athletic trainer and she thinks he’ll be out as long as Giannis because they won’t want setbacks given his prior injury history.
They lost Bojan too.I think it’s likely he’d be back by the ECF (21 days away). They certainly should be able to get that far.
This team without KP is still better than last year’s team with bummy Timelord. I think the Knicks are legitimately good and a significant threat to Boston without KP (even with him), but it’s not like Boston couldn’t beat them or even a WC team in the finals without him. They’re loaded.
I agree - if he's going to be bullied out to the free throw line and given no room to breathe, well I don't love that shot anyway. Of course they're better off with him by a long shot and they'll miss is rim protection, but this is survivable.Seems about as good as could be hoped for, given initial concerns. It helps a lot that the rest of the East is mediocre or injured, but the C's top 8 even without KP is just a really, really good team.
One under-talked-about thing is that KP just hasn't been the same cheat code since they changed the rules in Feb. You can really body him now, and stop that FT-line postup from being 1.5 points or whatever stupidity it was in the Old NBA. I don't think they'll miss him quite as much as people worry about.
Exactly. He's a good player now, not a human cheat code.I agree - if he's going to be bullied out to the free throw line and given no room to breathe, well I don't love that shot anyway. Of course they're better off with him by a long shot and they'll miss is rim protection, but this is survivable.
I’d feel pretty good about him being back for ECF based on his own reaction and the mean timeline you just posted. You know he isn’t going to want to miss sticking it to the Knicks in the ECF.Obviously nobody can know the degree, but one of the injury analytics guys pulled the data and came up with 17 days as the average missed game time for injuries NBA teams released as a soleus strain, so 2-3 weeks seems a reasonable expectation
100% the absolute best case scenario for both maybe The Finals but for the future too.Initial tone here is best case scenario from where we were last night. I’ll take it.
You should get her an account here. Doesn't she want to hang out with a bunch of internet geeks?My sister is an athletic trainer and she thinks he’ll be out as long as Giannis because they won’t want setbacks given his prior injury history.
Because calf injuries, like other soft tissue injuries in the leg, are temperamental and can linger on. Need to be extra careful to not come back too early and risk an Achilles injury as well.With all due respect to your sister, without having examined the severity of the injury and possibly without understanding the context of playoffs v. regular season, how would she know?
Knicks are going to have a much harder time with the Pacers than people are expecting.I’d feel pretty good about him being back for ECF based on his own reaction and the mean timeline you just posted. You know he isn’t going to want to miss sticking it to the Knicks in the ECF.
They're still the Knicks. I expect them to lose in 7.Knicks are going to have a much harder time with the Pacers than people are expecting.
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not questioning it... ...but what's your source? Has this been reported somewhere?Different calf.
Here's one link. It's right now, and was left last time:Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not questioning it... ...but what's your source? Has this been reported somewhere?
It was also 5 months ago at this point, so I'm not sure it would matter too much with a low grade sprain to begin with, but Rad knows more about that. My thoughts were the more severe ones can impact you later, but a small one that fully heals probably wouldn't.Porzingis was originally diagnosed with "right calf tightness" when he left Game 4 on Monday, April 29.
The next-day MRI revealed a "right soleus strain," per the Celtics.
That is the same injury that caused Giannis Antetokounmpo to miss the first five games of the Bucks' first-round series with the Pacers.
The shot blocker had a calf injury earlier this season ahead of the In-Season Tournament playoffs. He endured a left calf strain in late November and nursed it through December. He initially missed Boston's next four games over the span of eight days, then sat out another four of the next 11 games.
That’s plenty to add!! Much appreciated!I don't have much to add, the team will know a bit more having seen the MRI. Though even with that there is some guesswork as far as prognostication and return to play estimates.
Taking all comers in this general range (i.e grade 1 or grade 2, excluding the extremes of MRI negative cases and potentially surgical grade 3 cases), the midpoint return to play tends to be 3-4 weeks or so. If we knew for a fact this is a grade 1, more like 2-3 weeks. But because there are only 3 grades to keep things simple, you can really have different degrees of each. mild grade 1, severe grade 1, mild grade 2, severe grade 2 etc. Just knowing "grade 1" tells us it's not too bad but not really enough.
Most of the data on return to play is actually in European rugby and soccer players. They've done a lot of work trying to pinpoint things a bit better by measuring the length of tearing, the cross sectional area, position of the tear within the muscle or tendon etc . But there are so many variables re: prior injury, time of the season, importance of the player, individual healing that the data tends to be all over the map from about 2-8 weeks.
I'm putting together a lecture for the residents now about MRI grading of muscle injuries in elite athletes and return to play. The bottom line is that it's tricky and in the end the clinical factors tend to be very important, often outweighing the MRI findings.
People fault people for things they have no control over all the time and especially here. Your team lost? Somebody definitely messed up and we will get to the bottom of it!I’d be curious is the leg that was questionable before the game was the one with the initial tweak or the calf injury that took him out. If his left leg was bothering him before the game, and that was the initial tweak, you could fault Joe more for leaving him in. But, as others pointed out, a coach has to rely on his players to tell him or her how they are doing (except for Grady Little - he can burn in Hell).
This team should be fine without KP in the EC.Agree. No need to do anything but a Horford/Kornet rotation against the upcoming matchups and Miami.
I would be shocked if Horford played any less than heavy starters minutes without KP around in the playoffs if all is going well. He was playing mid-30’s, sometimes even high-30’s in regular season games that KP missed. The times he was around 30 was when we won in a blowout and he didn’t return for his 4Q rotation.This team should be fine without KP in the EC.
The only thing that has me concerned would be if CJM started running Horford out there for 36++ mpg in playoff intensity and didn't incorporate X & Kornet more.
Tillman is a very high-level defender (maybe their best perimeter-defending 5?). Joe should lean into building a 10-minute lineup around X.
Kornet actually missed G1 of this series with what was listed as a calf.Everyone has been pointing to GA's injury for guidance here, but we have homegrown Luke Kornet who also had a recent calf strain and only missed two games (and who also had calf strain issues earlier in the season, IRC). Seems possible that KP will indeed be all good by the next series, but we'll see.
That's what I mean - Kornet was out G1 and G2 with the "calf strain" and played G3 and was fine. So hopefully KP is on a similar track, close it out tonight, couple more days off, maybe miss G1 of next round, then good.Kornet actually missed G1 of this series with what was listed as a calf.
New York is scarier than a full health Bucks without KP. The issue is going to be with any team that can stall out the offense. Orlando is the scariest team left.Couple of things:
-They can beat New York, Indiana, Philadelphia without him. Frankly I'd be a little skeptical about their chances vs Milwaukee (fully healthy) without him; would like the Pacers to close that series out asap.
-This really reduces their margin for injury over the next 2 series. A top 8 of Tatum-Brown-White-Holiday-Horford-Kornet-Hauser-Pritchard is still really good obviously, but if you lose any of that top 5 for a period of time someone is going to get stretched far beyond their comfort zone.
-This is going to put quite the load on an old Horford...I know it's tough in the playoffs but they'll really have to try and spot check minutes for him when they can. More ideal would be this team winning a few consecutive short series for the first time ever to reduce the load on everyone.
That would be a great outcome, though probably a bit optimistic seeing the reports and the way KP reacted immediately to the injury.Everyone has been pointing to GA's injury for guidance here, but we have homegrown Luke Kornet who also had a recent calf strain and only missed two games (and who also had calf strain issues earlier in the season, IRC). Seems possible that KP will indeed be all good by the next series, but we'll see.