(2) Denver Nuggets vs (3) Minnesota Timberwolves - 2024 WC Second Round

HomeRunBaker

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To me at least, the NBA is missing an opportunity: the Nuggets are one of the most fun teams in the league to watch (and Joker, for my money, is the best single player to watch in the league), so having their games specifically be played so late on the east coast seems unwise. NY, Philly, and Boston are three of the top TV markets: why not tap more deeply into that?

And personally, I’m annoyed that I struggle to watch the second half of these games. I love me some Joker!
The problem is that you have Boston and New York occupying the early time slots every night this round. That’s the thing….you can’t have it both ways. I don’t know why there have been 8 est starts on some nights but none of us see the data showing why. We’d have to go back to compare each weeknight 7p/9:40p start time numbers w the 8p/10:40p numbers.
 

tims4wins

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The problem is that you have Boston and New York occupying the early time slots every night this round. That’s the thing….you can’t have it both ways. I don’t know why there have been 8 est starts on some nights but none of us see the data showing why. We’d have to go back to compare each weeknight 7p/9:40p start time numbers w the 8p/10:40p numbers.
I think staggered starts are the solution, especially in a sport like the NBA. It makes sense in the NFL where you want to watch games from start to finish. But if I miss the first half of an NBA game, it's less of a big deal, since so many games are close. Some overlap is ok, so long as we don't have dueling 4th quarters. So a 7pm / 830 approach could work, at least that way the late game ends around a more reasonable 11pm.
 

dhellers

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I would pay $20/month to get a TNT service that has NBA games with no Reggie Miller. He makes the games worse
De rigeur for all nationally televised Celtics games: NBA league pass, listen to game using local radio feed, use DVR (or whatever) to sync cable signal to internet radio (can be off by a minute).
Will also work for non-Celtics games!

Much less than $20 month
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think staggered starts are the solution, especially in a sport like the NBA. It makes sense in the NFL where you want to watch games from start to finish. But if I miss the first half of an NBA game, it's less of a big deal, since so many games are close. Some overlap is ok, so long as we don't have dueling 4th quarters. So a 7pm / 830 approach could work, at least that way the late game ends around a more reasonable 11pm.
From a numbers perspective how is this ok when majority of NBA fans can only watch one at a time? You are actively giving up viewership this way.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Around 75%-80% of the US population lives in either the Eastern or Central time zone, if the goal is to maximize TV eyeballs on the playoffs, they should be catering to that demographic unless they worry that a 7:30 pm local start time in Denver is going to make it so they can't fill the seats in the stadium or something. And with so many people working from home or otherwise able to watch the start of games on phones or otherwise during working hours these days, it's very hard to see why last night's games couldn't have been bumped up an hour each. I know I thought about watching the western conference game but gave up early since I wasn't going to watch until the end anyways.

I mean, last night’s game involved one team from Mountain time and one from Central, it’s not like there were any Pacific time zone teams playing anyways, why have tipoff at 10:30 pm Eastern on a weeknight?
 

tims4wins

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From a numbers perspective how is this ok when majority of NBA fans can only watch one at a time? You are actively giving up viewership this way.
Are you though? The neutral fans on the east cost are going to watch from say 7 to 11. It's not like the fans out in MT or WC are tuning in at 4-5pm to watch the Knicks series. They're probably watching the 4th quarter when they get home or whatever. I think if you assume that we only have a finite number of hours to watch, then it doesn't really matter. Playing a later 2nd game will definitely add overall eyeballs from 11-12 because some people will stay up, but it also means that a lot of fans will go to bed and miss the end of those games. So yes there will be somewhat less viewers because you lose that last hour, but at the detriment of fans being able to watch the ends of those games, which could hurt in the long run.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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I'm on the west coast now but games should start 6:30/9:30 ET. I'm not even sure why they start at 7 tbh, maybe because of Central and commute home?
 

lovegtm

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People on the east coast forget how insanely early everything starts when you're on the west coast. The early game feels like it's over before you've finished work, picked up kids from school, and settled in for some dinner.

Particularly when the main fanbases for west coast teams are in at least Central Time, you probably don't want to be starting earlier than they do now for those games.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm on the west coast now but games should start 6:30/9:30 ET. I'm not even sure why they start at 7 tbh, maybe because of Central and commute home?
Rest of the announce playoff schedule is:
Early game 7pm eastern and 9:30 Eastern
When 1 game it starts at 8:30 Eastern.
 

InstaFace

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I think staggered starts are the solution, especially in a sport like the NBA. It makes sense in the NFL where you want to watch games from start to finish. But if I miss the first half of an NBA game, it's less of a big deal, since so many games are close. Some overlap is ok, so long as we don't have dueling 4th quarters. So a 7pm / 830 approach could work, at least that way the late game ends around a more reasonable 11pm.
If you have a west coast team, an 8:30 ET start means you're making the game tip off at ~5:30pm local. Nobody will be in their seats by then. At least a 6:30pm-local tipoff has a hope of having a full arena and also a conclusion time within reach for most east coast viewers.

(for DAL, MIN, even DEN, I think an 8:30 ET start would be fine for live attendees, but I don't like the ~60 minute overlap, would prefer it to be 30' and tip at 9:00pm ET)
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Around 75%-80% of the US population lives in either the Eastern or Central time zone, if the goal is to maximize TV eyeballs on the playoffs, they should be catering to that demographic unless they worry that a 7:30 pm local start time in Denver is going to make it so they can't fill the seats in the stadium or something. And with so many people working from home or otherwise able to watch the start of games on phones or otherwise during working hours these days, it's very hard to see why last night's games couldn't have been bumped up an hour each. I know I thought about watching the western conference game but gave up early since I wasn't going to watch until the end anyways.

I mean, last night’s game involved one team from Mountain time and one from Central, it’s not like there were any Pacific time zone teams playing anyways, why have tipoff at 10:30 pm Eastern on a weeknight?
My guess - and this is just a guess - is that the Powers To Be wanted NYK on at 8:00 p.m. to maximize Knick fans. Thus pushing DEN back, which is fine for DEN's fan base in their time zones.

Sucks for us in the ET zone though.

I would pay $20/month to get a TNT service that has NBA games with no Reggie Miller. He makes the games worse
TNT has some fees without announcers. TNT Overtime I believe it's called.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Are you though? The neutral fans on the east cost are going to watch from say 7 to 11. It's not like the fans out in MT or WC are tuning in at 4-5pm to watch the Knicks series. They're probably watching the 4th quarter when they get home or whatever. I think if you assume that we only have a finite number of hours to watch, then it doesn't really matter. Playing a later 2nd game will definitely add overall eyeballs from 11-12 because some people will stay up, but it also means that a lot of fans will go to bed and miss the end of those games. So yes there will be somewhat less viewers because you lose that last hour, but at the detriment of fans being able to watch the ends of those games, which could hurt in the long run.
Your last sentence is crucial here. The suits are caring about the immediate results of their scheduling….they don’t care about down the road and if it can have an impact. The other thing is that we are not factoring in how many viewers are from outside of the country where the time a game is schedule doesn’t really matter as much.
 

dhellers

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Around 75%-80% of the US population lives in either the Eastern or Central time zone, if the goal is to maximize TV eyeballs on the playoffs, they should be catering to that demographic unless they worry that a 7:30 pm local start time in Denver is going to make it so they can't fill the seats in the stadium or something. And with so many people working from home or otherwise able to watch the start of games on phones or otherwise during working hours these days, it's very hard to see why last night's games couldn't have been bumped up an hour each. I know I thought about watching the western conference game but gave up early since I wasn't going to watch until the end anyways.

I mean, last night’s game involved one team from Mountain time and one from Central, it’s not like there were any Pacific time zone teams playing anyways, why have tipoff at 10:30 pm Eastern on a weeknight?
The tone of this thread is borderline arrogant.

Is it really a good thing to cater to a small fraction of a populous region (NBA aficionados on the East coast), with zilch consideration for the fanbases of the teams ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME.

Personally, as a NBA afficionado on the East coast, I don't want that kind of treatment. If I cared I would figure out a way to stay up (take a nap in the evening?)

That said, 8:30 local time starts are a nice gesture -- especially if it goes both ways (for example: an 8:30 EDT Boston start would be appreciated by Denver fans).
 

RSC3000

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It turns out that being able to impact the game when your jumper isn't falling is really important, after all.
How about that! Conley being out must of been a factor last night. TWolves really had no answer on offense at all, Edwards was doubled quite often and struggled to generate any momentum. Slo-Mo was also comically bad, I really can't believe they had no one better to run out there.
 

lovegtm

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How about that! Conley being out must of been a factor last night. TWolves really had no answer on offense at all, Edwards was doubled quite often and struggled to generate any momentum. Slo-Mo was also comically bad, I really can't believe they had no one better to run out there.
Generating offense when you're doubled is really hard and valuable. 22 year-old Tatum was much worse at it than 26 year-old Tatum. Ant will improve a ton at this over the years, but this is why he and young Tatum both caused overreactions: EVERYONE looks like a superstar when the stepback 3s/middies are falling at crazy clips.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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The tone of this thread is borderline arrogant.

Is it really a good thing to cater to a small fraction of a populous region (NBA aficionados on the East coast), with zilch consideration for the fanbases of the teams ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME.

Personally, as a NBA afficionado on the East coast, I don't want that kind of treatment. If I cared I would figure out a way to stay up (take a nap in the evening?)

That said, 8:30 local time starts are a nice gesture -- especially if it goes both ways (for example: an 8:30 EDT Boston start would be appreciated by Denver fans).
First of all, if we’re focusing on the fanbases of the teams involved in the game, how about the Minnesota fans whose game didn’t start until 9:30 local time and finished after midnight? This game was between a Mountain time zone team and a Central time zone team, why is this being broadcast as late as if this were two west coast teams?

On the broader point, this was a conversation about growing the game. If we assume die hard fans of the teams playing will watch anyways, the question is how do you get neutral/casual fans to tune in as well? I don’t think it’s all that arrogant to say that showing games at times that are convenient for larger portions of the population has the greatest chance to draw the most eyeballs (and I included Central as well as Eastern time zones in that category, for the record), but your mileage may vary.
 

tims4wins

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First of all, if we’re focusing on the fanbases of the teams involved in the game, how about the Minnesota fans whose game didn’t start until 9:30 local time and finished after midnight? This game was between a Mountain time zone team and a Central time zone team, why is this being broadcast as late as if this were two west coast teams?

On the broader point, this was a conversation about growing the game. If we assume die hard fans of the teams playing will watch anyways, the question is how do you get neutral/casual fans to tune in as well? I don’t think it’s all that arrogant to say that showing games at times that are convenient for larger portions of the population has the greatest chance to draw the most eyeballs (and I included Central as well as Eastern time zones in that category, for the record), but your mileage may vary.
Plus, all of the weekday games are still at night. It's not like baseball where they are playing playoff games at 1pm on a Thursday. 5 or 6pm local is too early? Boo hoo.
 

Jimbodandy

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The tone of this thread is borderline arrogant.

Is it really a good thing to cater to a small fraction of a populous region (NBA aficionados on the East coast), with zilch consideration for the fanbases of the teams ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME.

Personally, as a NBA afficionado on the East coast, I don't want that kind of treatment. If I cared I would figure out a way to stay up (take a nap in the evening?)

That said, 8:30 local time starts are a nice gesture -- especially if it goes both ways (for example: an 8:30 EDT Boston start would be appreciated by Denver fans).
Of course everyone is viewing through their own lens. And folks don't want their team's games starting while they're still sitting in traffic on the way home from work. But if you're the NBA, your current and future consumer base is not evenly distributed among time zones. Nobody is worried, for example, about optimizing Alaska viewership because nobody lives there. Making games too late for east coast folks is eliminating a huge chunk of your audience. It's just numbers.

82679

edit: I don't say this selfishly, not typically going to bed much before 1AM most days.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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On the one hand, I don't think the Celtics have an answer for him. So, I'm half rooting for Minnesota.
On the other hand, I love the idea of watching this guy for multiple nights against our boys.
(And yes, I know I'm making a big assumption that the Celts are making the finals).
Yeah, terrified of Jokic. One thing that I just noticed is how often he can play off the wrong foot. That, combined with his ability to score with both hands and the way he spins around and fakes, makes him impossible to time up as a defender.

No one on MIN had any success against him last night. (In an example of how statistics don't always tell the full story, Jokic was 1-6 against KAT but looking closer - one miss was Jokic wide-open missing a short jumper after he got past KAT - KAT was the closest defender so he got the "credit"; a second miss was an end of the quarter shot; a third miss was a turnaround where KAT clearly pushed Jokic but wasn't called; and the fourth miss (NBA.com didn't have video of the 5th one) was where Jokic just missed a turn-around jumper.)

If CJM follows his earlier strategies, he's going to try to take everyone else out of the game and see if Jokic can win it himself but I'm afraid that yes indeed Jokic can win multiple games if DEN's entire offense consists of him in the half-court + whatever transition DEN can get.

82680
 

RSC3000

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Generating offense when you're doubled is really hard and valuable. 22 year-old Tatum was much worse at it than 26 year-old Tatum. Ant will improve a ton at this over the years, but this is why he and young Tatum both caused overreactions: EVERYONE looks like a superstar when the stepback 3s/middies are falling at crazy clips.
I agree, this is a real challenge for all great players in the league. Good bet he'll improve quite a bit given his age, but at least last night, it was a real struggle. Doesn't seem like he's catching much heat for that.
 

HomeRunBaker

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tims4wins

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I think the clock should stop in the NBA after every made shot. It wouldn't lengthen games by more than a couple minutes, and would prevent these shenanigans. It's a pretty easy fix IMO.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think the clock should stop in the NBA after every made shot. It wouldn't lengthen games by more than a couple minutes, and would prevent these shenanigans. It's a pretty easy fix IMO.
Now that this is being brought to the forefront there will be some change made in the offseason. For now, I wouldn’t be surprised if a memo went out instructing the officials to be prepared for this and immediately retrieve the ball to start the 5-count…..or one brave soul will whistle a delay of game.
 

Euclis20

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I think the clock should stop in the NBA after every made shot. It wouldn't lengthen games by more than a couple minutes, and would prevent these shenanigans. It's a pretty easy fix IMO.
Even less if the new rule would only apply to the 4th quarter. No one really cares about running the clock down before then.
 

lovegtm

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He does this every 4Q when Denver has a lead, then once he corrals it the 5-second count begins so he holds it for another 4 seconds. He takes 2-4 full possessions off the clock every game they are protecting the lead.
Jokic and the Celtics both understand the extreme value of shortening the 4Q when you have a lead. The math is inexorable.

You can do it by wasting time, and by working the shot clock deeper. Both are inordinately valuable.
 

jon abbey

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I think the clock should stop in the NBA after every made shot. It wouldn't lengthen games by more than a couple minutes, and would prevent these shenanigans. It's a pretty easy fix IMO.
I think they will fix this this summer, it really shouldn't be a thing.