2014 Draft Day 1: Grades & Discussions

bbc23 · May 8, 2014

How are the Raiders both in your top and bottom 4?

DanoooME · May 8, 2014

I'd have to agree with SSF on the top 3. My bottom 3 is:

1. Bills - agree, paid way too much for Watkins
2. Dolphins - James is a big stretch whose ceiling is good RT. You don't pick that in the 1st round.
3. Panthers - Yeah, they needed a WR, but I think he's more Reggie Williams than Calvin Johnson

Freddy Linn · May 8, 2014

SeoulSoxFan said:
Honorable mention: Vikings jumping in late to grab TBW. I think he'll be a much better starter than EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, and Bortles in year 2 and on.

Right in front of the Texans, who can't possibly draft another Carr.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · May 8, 2014

SeoulSoxFan said:
Honorable mention: Vikings jumping in late to grab TBW. I think he'll be a much better starter than EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, and Bortles in year 2 and on.

And the price they paid (4th) is basically cancelled out by picking up a 5th earlier to move down one spot.

I'm a big TBW guy but I love what they did.

SMU_Sox · May 9, 2014

TBW will be the least paid 5th year contract QB. Love that part of it too for the Vikings.

Greg29fan · May 9, 2014

SeoulSoxFan said:
Who came out winners on day 1? Losers?

Here are my top 3 + Bonus:

Browns: what a haul stealing lunch money from the Bills. They get their 2nd corner in Gilbert opposite Hayden, JFF and next year's round 1 pick. A++, will do business with seller again

Rams: gets a new starting LT, builds a monster line with the addition of Aaron Donald. Jeff Fisher building a winner

Radiers: Khalil's mini "fall" lands with with the most polished and ready-to-produce player in the draft
* Bonus. Texans: not easy to screw up a #1, but JJW and Clowney is just insane

My worst 3:

Bills: EJ Manuels is not going to get Watkins enough balls to make it worth the steep price

Cowboys: passing on Texas' own JFF with a 34 year old Romo?

Giants: Beckham is a great receiver, but Giants should have filled the holes on defense

Getting interior rush with Easley is a good move, obviously with the red flags. Jets going with a box-type safety is a middling move.

Overall, a good and fun day.

JFF would have been fun but Dallas not taking a safety when Pryor and Clinton-Dix were both there (Jeff fucking Heath is still their starting FS right now) is a crime. F- for Jerrah.

SMU_Sox · May 9, 2014

Losers:
1. Eagles - Marcus Smith in the 1st?! I saw him as more of a round 3-5 guy and my personal bias was more towards 5 than 3.
2. Cowboys - great idea to invest in the OLine. But the Oline is really deep in this draft. And when your defense is that bad and safety is a shallow pool...if they invested 3 picks on the Oline in the draft I'd be fine with that. But not in the 1st round when you have even more pressing needs on defense. I'm also not very high on Martin. Quick edit: Like him more as a G than an RT. Definitely gets a plus for his versatility but a G in round 1 with that defense? Same point applies. Like him as a G. Do not like as an RT - at least at this point in his career.
3. Giants - Have glaring holes at more pressing positions.

I don't want to call these guys losers but I'm not high on the following 1st rounders I didn't mention: Dee Ford, Bortles, Benjamin, and Roby. Lukewarm on Bucannon and Ward - don't see them as 1st round talent.

Winners:
1. Browns. I don't think this needs an explanation.
2. Vikings - again, imo, the best QB in the draft class at 32. They get a 5th year option at a low price for him. AND they nabbed Barr, a high ceiling guy. TBW has weapons around him and I like the Vikings drafting the past two years - he'll have weapons.
3. Rams - This is an award partially in recognition for their big trade that netted them these picks. But Donald on that line? Good golly...
4. Pats - for taking a risk on a top 5 or 10 talent who can give us the interior pass rush presence we have not had since.... the Big Dick himself?

SMU_Sox · May 9, 2014

SeoulSoxFan said:
May I suggest Mike Wright, until he got his bells rung.

I think that's fair - good call. He certainly did give us some decent pressure - still feel terrible how his career ended.

Gunfighter 09 · May 9, 2014

Greg29fan said:
JFF would have been fun but Dallas not taking a safety when Pryor and Clinton-Dix were both there (Jeff fucking Heath is still their starting FS right now) is a crime. F- for Jerrah.

There were only two moves there- just embrace the circus and take the best QB who is a fucking god in Texas, or take the best player who fills a need in Pryor. I guess the real crime is that $100M deal that they gave Romo that essentially made it impossible to pick JFF.

Two teams who I thought did poorly are:

KC- I think there are 3-4 other DEs who are better than Dee Ford.
SD - I just don't like Verrett, I am pretty happy he is in San Diego.

SoxVindaloo · May 9, 2014

Winners
Browns--Gilbert and Jonny Football a good combo.
Vikings--Barr and late jump to 32 for TBW is a great haul.
Rams--Robinson and Donald great build up of the trenches.
Honorable mention--Pats. Bold move for a team without a glaring need. Easley is a train wreck of an interior DL, plays with a mean streak too.

Of all the winners I love the order they picked these guys. The Browns and Vikes picked the QBs at the right spots.

Losers
Jax--Too high for Bortles even if he is their guy.
Detroit--Ebron is good but do a little to fix your shitty D first. How many yards does Stafford need to throw for?
NO--WR Cooks, same as Detroit, fix your D first.

pdaj · May 9, 2014

I think if you're going to criticize the Dolphins, it should be for several of the moves they made prior to the draft, all of which put them in this position tonight. This includes last year's trade-up for Dion Jordan over Lane Johnson. The O-line need for Miami was so glaring, it had to be addressed in the 1st round.

McShay had James as Miami's selection in his final mock. While it's not a sexy pick, Ja'Waun is a good player who excels in pass protection and will start from day 1. Tannehill was sacked for a league-high 58 times last year. If this were to continue in '14, a reply like, "Well, at least we picked the BPA in the 1st round!" will sound silly. I think it was a slight reach for the Dolphins, as several draft gurus pegged James as an end-of-the-first-round talent or lower; but I think it was the right choice considering the state of offensive line pre-draft.

E5 Yaz · May 9, 2014

I think the Rams come out of this the biggest winners, with the Vikings second. I like what Cleveland did to get the 2015 first-rounder, but the question mark over Manziel's head means their overall draft could go either way.

Do not understand the Watkins pick by Buffalo.

The Pats get an Incomplete. It all depends on the kid's health

E5 Yaz · May 9, 2014

By Sam Farmer
Los Angeles Times
NEW YORK - Johnny Manziel turned out to be a dropback passer after all.

Ouch

LondonSox · May 9, 2014

Criticism of the Cowboys for not taking JFF is insane.
Have you looked at Romo's contract? He is Untradable and uncuttable for at least 3 years and the Cowboys have so many holes.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · May 9, 2014

LondonSox said:
Criticism of the Cowboys for not taking JFF is insane.
Have you looked at Romo's contract? He is Untradable and uncuttable for at least 3 years and the Cowboys have so many holes.

Yeah, exactly. That contract is awful but, given its existence, taking a QB made zero sense for them.

j-man · May 9, 2014

3 winners 1 SF getting S J Ward is a Steal 2 Ciny i like Denrard a lot 3 Den getting Roby is a steal as well pro bowl player if he stays clean Losers 1 MIA J James its a 3rd 4rd round guy 2 Buff gave up too much for sammy 3 CLE Manziel is too hit/miss and Fuller and Denrard are better corners than gilbert

Eck'sSneakyCheese · May 9, 2014

Winners:
Rams - Robinson and Donald are great picks. Building on the lines. Very smart. Long, Donald, Brockers and Quinn. Would not want to be a QB in the NFC West.
Raiders - Second best player in the draft at #5. Mack along with Tuck and Woodley are going to really boost that defense.

Losers:
Bills - Way too much to give up for Watkins. Too much pressure on Manuel now.
Eagles - They need interior help. They had their pick of any DT on the board and they took Smith... puzzling.

ivanvamp · May 9, 2014

I think yesterday belonged to Cleveland and St. Louis. Cleveland got a terrific DB and then still managed to land Manziel. Plus, due to the trade with the Bills, they also get a 1st and 4th rounders in 2015. Wow. Great job by them.

And St. Louis landed two premier players in Donald and Robinson. Talk about building a team the right way - the lines. Their D-line is now absolutely ferocious, and their O-line is suddenly solid. They just need Bradford to improve or get that position right (maybe they address it today), but they suddenly have the building blocks of a very good football team.

As an aside, I love the Easley pick for NE. Perfect kind of pick for this team at this moment at that point in the draft. Incredible upside (top 5 talent), if he stays healthy, he's going to be an absolute beast for the Pats. If he doesn't, well, that'll suck, but it's a risk worth taking, IMO. I was as shocked as anyone they went with him, but the more I think about it, read about him, and see his video, the more impressed I am. He was clearly the guy they (and, as it turns out, Seattle) wanted.

SMU_Sox · May 9, 2014

j-man said:
3 winners 1 SF getting S J Ward is a Steal 2 Ciny i like Denrard a lot 3 Den getting Roby is a steal as well pro bowl player if he stays clean Losers 1 MIA J James its a 3rd 4rd round guy 2 Buff gave up too much for sammy 3 CLE Manziel is too hit/miss and Fuller and Denrard are better corners than gilbert

Some guys we'll agree to disagree on. I don't doubt Roby is an athletic marvel and that helps him be a successful corner because his athleticism makes up for a lot of his mistakes. But the three times I actually watched him in depth last year he played poorly. He was routinely burned against Wisconsin, Michigan, and Northwestern. He gambles too much and can be undisciplined. I like that he can be aggressive and won't shy away from tackling runners (he embraces that). When a guy loses more battles than he wins against top receivers like Abbrederis that is a problem. It's possible he was on cruise control this season - but what does that say about him? Physical skills are there. He needs polish and coaching. I'd also argue he needs to play less aggressively in the NFL or he is going to ride the bench.

Jimmie Ward is a SS type who I thought was a mid 2nd rounder. I don't consider him too much of a reach but can't see how taking a SS at 30 makes SF a winner.

Agree on Cincy - although I wonder if Dennard is going to get called for PI or holding in the NFL on a semi-frequent basis. Xavier Rhodes had some similar concerns but did well.

As for losers... Manziel at 22 and Gilbert (one of the top 3 corners YMMV) seems like a pretty good haul. Agree to disagree on their evals.

Super Nomario · May 9, 2014

SMU_Sox said:
Agree on Cincy - although I wonder if Dennard is going to get called for PI or holding in the NFL on a semi-frequent basis. Xavier Rhodes had some similar concerns but did well.

Rhodes has 2 inches on Dennard and his arms are 3 1/2" longer. Dennard is a funny player - he has a rep as a press corner but doesn't have the length typically associated with that, and some people think he can play in the slot but his agility drills weren't good. (OTOH, he's said to lack top-end speed but ran a 4.42 40 at the Combine - go figure). He seems like a low-ceiling guy to me and I'm not sure he has the high floor to compensate.

SouthernBoSox · May 9, 2014

Losers
Bills. Honestly, it's almost unforgivable to move from 9 to 4 for a 2015 first and 4th.
Dolphins. Took OL because they had to, but they drafted first of the second tier of linemen
Cowboys. That defense is so bad. They had blue chip safeties there. I have no idea how they passed on them for interior OL.

Winners
Rams. Two great picks on the line. I'm a big fan of teams making strengths even stronger. They probably have the best collective fronts in professional football.
Cleveland. They land a big physical corner with unlimited potential to tandem with Hayden, the most exciting player/QB/Ticket seller in the draft aaaaand they swapped 2014 3rd and 5th for 2015 1st and 4th. Mercy is that a beautiful first round.

SMU_Sox · May 9, 2014

Super Nomario said:
Rhodes has 2 inches on Dennard and his arms are 3 1/2" longer. Dennard is a funny player - he has a rep as a press corner but doesn't have the length typically associated with that, and some people think he can play in the slot but his agility drills weren't good. (OTOH, he's said to lack top-end speed but ran a 4.42 40 at the Combine - go figure). He seems like a low-ceiling guy to me and I'm not sure he has the high floor to compensate.

Yeah, Dennard is a somewhat polarizing player imo from a family that seems to have DB genes. Loved him at Michigan State. But, like you, I wonder if he can maintain his level of dominance against a different level of competition. Smaller physical corner without elite speed (I don't give that much credence to the 40. I like the 3-cone, jumps, bench reps, etc). Corner is a position I think is worth the gamble though and Cincy needed to invest there with their roster and injuries. He is a good gamble where they picked - again though I definitely have questions about him and I'd argue that Rhodes was a better prospect.

triniSox · May 9, 2014

Adding my voice to the "Browns did awesome" chorus. They can even get Marqise Lee in the 2nd (sitting tight or moving up a few).

Reverend · May 9, 2014

SeoulSoxFan said:
My worst 3:

Bills: EJ Manuels is not going to get Watkins enough balls to make it worth the steep price

Cowboys: passing on Texas' own JFF with a 34 year old Romo?

Giants: Beckham is a great receiver, but Giants should have filled the holes on defense

Getting interior rush with Easley is a good move, obviously with the red flags. Jets going with a box-type safety is a middling move.

In my very limited understanding, Pryor is incorrectly considered a box safety because he hits so hard when in reality he is all over the place in the field--the video they showed in the draft was him coming across and getting receivers and making in-play adjustments to the offense.

We know what Rex has done with pieces like that in the past. The Jets defense may be getting a whole lot scarier. I can see it perhaps being a middling move for some teams in a vacuum, but outside that vacuum and knowing that he's going to a Rex Ryan coached team, well, Rex may have his queen.

soxfan121 · May 9, 2014

Reverend said:
We know what Rex has done with pieces like that in the past. The Jets defense may be getting a whole lot scarier. I can see it perhaps being a middling move for some teams in a vacuum, but outside that vacuum and knowing that he's going to a Rex Ryan coached team, well, Rex may have his queen.

I hate to concur, but I must. Pryor on a Ryan defense scares the crap out of me, if Pryor is as good as advertised.

Credit to Idzik for recognizing what his coach does well and maximizing it.

The offense, however, will most likely remain putrid so we Pats have that going for us.

2014 Draft Day 1: Grades & Discussions

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