2016-2017 Manchester City: Sgt. Pep's Lonely Hearts Club Band

teddykgb

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Jul 16, 2005
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So seductive. The man, the myth, and the legend has rocked up in England at the best team in the land and all the world. Today marks his first official day in charge, so it's the best day possible to start this season's MCFC (now Man City) thread. There's a whole lot new about City this season.

1) The Badge: Bye bye eagle and bye bye stars representing nothing but certainly not representing the European Championships we didn't win. Replaced by a lovely, slightly cartoonish roundel that Nike will not have to put a dumb shield around to put on the kits because they're too cheap to pay 9 cents an hour to someone to actually put a badge on properly



The guy on the right of the photo is clearly a United fan. He's unhappy and dressed in that dumb goofy Sir Baconface uniform all their supporters wear.

2) The Kit: This season City will wear the exact same dumb kit Nike is making everyone else wear. Not content to only do this dumb thing, they decided to make it as hard as possible for fans to embrace the new badge by making City have navy blue sleeves and sky blue shorts because being mistaken for Coventry is something you want to do when building out a new brand. The away shirt is even worse and I'm not ready to talk about it.



3) The Squad: With the cosmetic stuff out of the way, now down to the nitty gritty. Pep guys! Pep! MOTHERFUCKING PEP. I've always been an admirer because he coaches the game the way I want it to be coached and coaxes out of his players a desire to play "proper" football. Ball skills, space, movement, pressing. Win by the sword or die by the sword but always always always take out your fucking sword.

Two players have already been officially brought in. Gundogan and Nolito. As is tradition, Gundogan is injured and likely won't start the season. Nonetheless, his quality is obvious and he should go a long, long way to strengthening a midfield that had become very one dimensional and broken. He'll likely start every match he isn't on the physio table. The key question with him is how many of those matches will there be?

Nolito is a bit of a head scratcher in that he's not a big name nor a name you'd expect to see transferring to the PL at his age of 29. Barca were reportedly linked and his stats say that he's been creating chances like few in the game for the past few seasons at Celta Vigo. He made Spain's squad and started impressively before fading. He's an attacking forward who seems a natural fit for a 4-3-3 formation and likely a veteran stopgap who can be assured some quality in a team full of question marks.

Other rumored additions right now include: Thiago (likely a lazy thing because he's followed Pep), Stones (I think this gets done, it's too perfect a match), Leroy Sane (another winger forward), Pogba (not happening), Kroos (probably not happening), Bruno Peres (wingback)

4) Formation: This is the big question. Pep showed evolution at Bayern and didn't just force the team shape into his Barca formation, instead embracing wingers and putting together an impressive run of dominance for a team that was, admittedly, already dominant. In order to give myself an erection lasting long enough to call a doctor, I've been reading Pep Confidential and it is fascinating how he approached the entire Bayern setup and makes it quite interesting to speculate about what he might do with the current City roster.

GK: Pep favors his sweeper keepers and nobody would confuse Hart for that. There were some early links to Ter Stegen but that has died down and it seems City is going to try to give Hart a chance to transform himself. Fundamentally, a HG keeper is a massive win for a team in the PL so this makes sense. Hart has struggled low to his left for a while now and will need to work hard on distribution. City were rumored to be chasing Geronimo Rulli and may have some sort of strange deal with him whereby they'll eventually bring him in, so he may be lingering behind Hart. At the youth level, Angus Gunn has been pretty good and will likely loan out to gain experience.

The first major question will be whether Pep plays 3 at the back or 4 at the back. City's fullbacks have been mediocre to dire the last couple of seasons. Zabaleta got old and is almost assuredly off to Roma, which is incredibly sad. Sagna was a solid FB last year in Zabaleta's stead even 2 years older. Clichy has likewise been solid if unspectacular. Kolarov has been a complete mess. Of all the players on City's current roster, he's got the worst ball skills and touch and I just can't imagine he's going to make this team. With Zabaleta's sale, City have only one true RB on the roster in an aging Sagna and have not been linked with much aside from Peres on either FB position. To me, this heavily suggests a 3 CB formation. City have spent at this position and seem like they're going to bring in Stones (and failed to bring in Laporte) so Pep seems to want depth. Kompany, Otamendi, and Mangala are already in place. It's hard to imagine Mangala playing in a Pep team, but this group performed very poorly under Pellegrini. Nonetheless, Otamendi has looked great for Argentina and for Valencia prior (albeit prone to incredibly rash decisions to jump into midfield) so you have to wonder if the system, which included Yaya in a midfield 2, really did them not favors. They seemed both unlucky and exposed at various times last season. They'll need Kompany to stay healthy, which seems impossible, and to bring in Stones and have him realize some of his potential. It would certainly be a bold move to take this at times shambolic defensive unit and reduce the number of defenders but my hunch would be that he does exactly that. Knowing Pep, he'll probably have them drilled in multiple formations with a 3 variant being just an option.

If he does play 3 at the back you then have to see if there are wingbacks or something more along the lines of a 3-4-3. City have been linked with Peres, whom I haven't seen much of but many people describe as someone in the line of Alves. This idea excites me and would suggest that wingbacks aren't out of the question. But I can't see Pep playing Clichy or Kolarov at wing back and City haven't been linked to any left sided players (although Peres apparently can play either side). But this gets interesting because City don't really have a super strong midfield. The current depth is: Gundogan, Fernandinho, Fernando, Delph, Yaya (likely sold), and you can likely look to include De Bruyne, Silva, and Nasri in this group but it'd be a major change for any of them to play as true #8s. Somewhere in the back of my mind there's a belief that Nasri could be an orgasmically good pivot in Pep's system but I just don't think the player has his head on himself correctly enough that he could actually display the discipline that role requires. There's no natural Pivot on this roster --- I'd be shocked if Fernando had the ball skills for the role and his movement is beyond abysmal. He'd be a project at best and he hides from possession today. I don't think Gundogan was signed to play this deep and he and Fernandinho should bring a pretty high energy midfield . At times at Bayern Pep went without his beloved pivot but I'm having a very hard time piecing together who he sees playing that role at City. Obviously, this is where Yaya played for him before being displaced by Biscuits but I can't fathom Yaya staying nor can I see him having the work rate required for this role.

I think if you pencil in Fernandinho and Gundogan in CM you start to look like this:

-------------Hart--------------
CB---------CB-----------CB
WB--Fernandinho---Gundogan--WB
ATK----Aguero---ATK

If Navas stays, he could easily play as a wing back in this system. I have no idea what the plan would be on the left side. If we look at it as more of a 4-3-3, it'd look like this

-------------Hart-------------------
RB----CB-------CB------LB
-----------Pivot TBD------------
---Fern-------------Gundo-----
ATK----Aguero-------ATK

Which then starts to bring us to the attackers. City have a big and varied pool here. Aguero will obviously play. I sometimes wonder if he'll be deployed as a wide attacker instead of a straight #9 but for now I'll assume he's leading the line. You then have Silva and De Bruyne, both of whom play best as a #10. KDB has probably eclipsed Silva because of his goal scoring capability and the fact that he plays so many killer passes but they're probably closer than current reputation might suggest when Silva is not injured and on form. I thought Silva looked fantastic for Spain in the Euros.

Manuel Pellegrini tried to fit them both in by playing them wide of more serious box to box types and it never really worked. De Bruyne hugged his touch line and was too out of the games and Silva abandoned his position constantly which left his full back exposed. Neither puts forth a master class in tracking back. It's a really tough problem for Pep. I think Silva could be a fantastic 2 way CM himself but Pep would have to really motivate him to change the way he plays. For a small player, he has a lot of battle in him, and he is obviously the closest thing City have to both Iniesta and/or Xavi. Take your pick. It's possible that Pep asks him to do this. De Bruyne, imo, is the closest thing to Muller who isn't named Muller. He's not really a #10 nor is he a CF or a striker. He's a guy who just makes things happen. I think he'll be played very close to Aguero as a wide forward with little instruction to hug his touchline. Which means city would have to abandon width on one side--which is something Pep detests because most of his system is about creating those spaces and giving an attacker space to operate in. Nonetheless, Muller was sometimes deployed this way and Bayern certainly made it work.

The remaining attacking position, outside of Aguero, will surely be a dribbling winger type. Sterling and Nolito will probably fill this role. Sterling has had his confidence assassinated by the British fans and press over the last year and seems a shadow of the relatively limited player we bought from Liverpool but hopefully Pep can get him back to being a player who at least takes a man on the dribble and makes things happen. He's certainly got the speed and needs to be played in space to have a hope of beating a man. Nolito has played for Pep before and has played this kind of role for his teams so he should be intimately familiar playing as an inverted winger.

Bony will likely be sold, Ihenacho will probably get chances across the front lone in all 3 ATK positions. I don't know what will happen with Nasri. If City are able to purchase Sane, I think he steps into the same roles as Nolito and Sterling but on the other side. He may be an imperative purchase in that respect as I don't think Navas is capable of actually beating a man and playing in that role if Pep wants to deploy 2 inverted wingers around Aguero.

This is beyond wordy at this point and I think my conclusion on formation is that I haven't got a fucking clue. Pep will probably interpret/invent a new formation anyway. I can't fit the personnel they're likely to have into either, but no matter what I think we're going to see some very interesting lineups out of Pep as he works this out. I'm a tactics junkie so this is absolutely fascinating to me.

4) Upcoming stuff: City are officially unveiling Pep in what is sure to be a cringe fest on Sunday. The rest of the new stuff will trickle out over the weekend as the club have a multi day even going with fans in the region. They kicked it off by throwing the new badge up on the Manchester City Hall, which is unremarkable to me because they are, after all, the only team in Manchester so it was a natural fit. Because City finished 4th, they have a CL Qualifier to play in mid August. There are permutations that can see them playing a very good team very early. It would obviously be a disaster for Pep to go out of CL in the qualifiers so he's got to figure out some of this stuff very quickly. There is the usual pre season tour, which will take the club mostly to China but in reality all around the world. Pep's start up will be hampered by both injury and the players who will take extended break after the Euros. This should give Fabian Delph plenty of time to try to translate his horrible accent into English.

This post is already way too long, I'll post about the Youth in a subsequent post.
 
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wonderland

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Jul 20, 2005
532
Understand your points about the shirt but looking at it as just a shirt, I think it looks great.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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While Pep is a tactical tinkerer, I think he is pragmatic enough not to rock the boat in his first year, without having a great sense of his players and without having had that much time to remake his squad. I would expect fairly conventional 4-3-3/4-1-4-1/4-2-3-1 type formations. I also think Gundogan is very likely to be the pivot player, playing either as a lone DM or alongside a ball winner (much like how Schweinsteiger was used), and that Fernandinho is likely to be more of a rotational player than a consistent starter. I don't know where this leaves the fullbacks but there are still two months left in the window so I wouldn't read too much into who has or hasn't been linked at this point.

My guess is that the front six is more likely to look like this:

Against weaker teams at home when City expects to be on the front foot all match:

Nolito---Aguero---Sterling/Sane
------De Bruyne---Silva------
---------Gundogan---------------

In tougher games that require more steel in midfield and tactical caution:

---------------Aguero-------------------
Nolito---De Bruyne---Sterling/Sane
-----Gundogan---Fernandinho-------
 

teddykgb

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Jul 16, 2005
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Understand your points about the shirt but looking at it as just a shirt, I think it looks great.
The shirt on its own would be only annoyingly copied from the template but they're going to have sky blue shorts like the template and it just stops being a City kit at that point. Even though we've won recently with the sky blue sky blue combo it just looks weird and not like City.
 

soxfan121

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The Roast of ManCity has some good laughs.
Lads, don't forget to roast Yaya Toure too. Don't want him to feel disrespected.
Fun fact; the largest recorded attendance for a league game at a Man City stadium was for Manchester United vs Arsenal.
How do you beat City?

Play the Champions League theme song before the game
The new City badge really encapsulates what Manchester is all about, by closely resembling the emblem of a failing comprehensive school.
GMP StretfordVerified account‏@GMPstretford
Break at Sports Direct Neary Way Large amount of Utd tops stolen, let us know if you get offered one. Unsurprisingly City tops not touched.
 

teddykgb

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Opening day is just a few days away and many of the questions raised in the OP of this thread are not much clearer. The pre season was abbreviated by both rain, late player returns, and ongoing transfer activity.

Leroy Sane and John Stones have joined Zinchenko, Nolito, and Gundogan in the new signings department. Sane has yet to train with the team due to an apparent hamstring injury and will not be involved this weekend. Gundogan still has not returned to training. Zinchenko has looked very good in pre season but it is doubtful he'll play a major role.

From the pre season efforts, it is clear that this is going to be a work in progress. Pep wants to build out from the back and neither keeper has looked comfortable. Well, I should say Caballero hasn't looked comfortable because Hart has only played the 2nd half versus Arsenal and he apparently gave no fucks and spent the entire time lumping long balls forward. The CB pairings have been beyond bizarre, with Fernando and Kolarov tapped for CB in the last pre season match (possibly due to injury). Stones was obviously bought to help in this regard and seems in line to play a ton early season, hopefully partnering Otamendi. But there are probably 5-10 other combinations possible.

I legitimately have no idea who will start on Saturday aside from Aguero. There literally isn't one other name on the team sheet I would say will be playing with 100% certainty. In the good news but possibly bad news department, Kompany returned to training today. This would be great if it didn't concern me so much because of his propensity for returning too early and getting injured. It'd be a huge boost if he can get and stay healthy.

Two issues that are interesting to probably only me:

1) Nasri seems to be seriously on the outs at City. Deep within me, there was a hope that Nasri could be reinvented as a #8 or even a #6 under Guardiola. He's so good at ball retention and recycling possession that I had dreams that he'd see a renaissance. Unfortunately he seems to have turned up to pre season so fat that Guardiola left him out of the team entirely and sent him off to train on his own. The only bright side here is that today's training gallery on MCFC's site features pictures of the leanest Nasri I've ever seen. Maybe he's actually taken this seriously and his relationship with Pep can be repaired. Chances are he'll just be sold. But he seriously looks like a new man, I'd love to see him playing at this weight and with fitness.

2) I'm really, really, super duper worried about Silva and KDB. This is one of those dark thoughts but one I just can't get out of my head. Pep seems to be recreating something like his Bayern blueprint and I think a 4-3-3 seems most likely with Aguero flanked by a couple of speedy beat a man types. Neither KDB nor Silva really seem like a fit for those roles, which means they may need to sit deeper in midfield. I think both can do a job there, but certainly not both of them can play as #8s especially once Gundogan returns. I think KDB can adapt and will more or less make it work but I'm super worried about Silva. I thought he'd be a natural in Pep's system but he hasn't looked good in the limited friendly time he's had and I worry that his tendency to drift all over the pitch is going to drive Pep mad. David Silva is one of my favorite players ever and I'm having convulsions thinking about the idea that he may become a problem now that we've got the greatest coach on the planet.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Jul 2, 2006
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Opening day is just a few days away and many of the questions raised in the OP of this thread are not much clearer. The pre season was abbreviated by both rain, late player returns, and ongoing transfer activity.

Leroy Sane and John Stones have joined Zinchenko, Nolito, and Gundogan in the new signings department. Sane has yet to train with the team due to an apparent hamstring injury and will not be involved this weekend. Gundogan still has not returned to training. Zinchenko has looked very good in pre season but it is doubtful he'll play a major role.

From the pre season efforts, it is clear that this is going to be a work in progress. Pep wants to build out from the back and neither keeper has looked comfortable. Well, I should say Caballero hasn't looked comfortable because Hart has only played the 2nd half versus Arsenal and he apparently gave no fucks and spent the entire time lumping long balls forward. The CB pairings have been beyond bizarre, with Fernando and Kolarov tapped for CB in the last pre season match (possibly due to injury). Stones was obviously bought to help in this regard and seems in line to play a ton early season, hopefully partnering Otamendi. But there are probably 5-10 other combinations possible.

I legitimately have no idea who will start on Saturday aside from Aguero. There literally isn't one other name on the team sheet I would say will be playing with 100% certainty. In the good news but possibly bad news department, Kompany returned to training today. This would be great if it didn't concern me so much because of his propensity for returning too early and getting injured. It'd be a huge boost if he can get and stay healthy.

Two issues that are interesting to probably only me:

1) Nasri seems to be seriously on the outs at City. Deep within me, there was a hope that Nasri could be reinvented as a #8 or even a #6 under Guardiola. He's so good at ball retention and recycling possession that I had dreams that he'd see a renaissance. Unfortunately he seems to have turned up to pre season so fat that Guardiola left him out of the team entirely and sent him off to train on his own. The only bright side here is that today's training gallery on MCFC's site features pictures of the leanest Nasri I've ever seen. Maybe he's actually taken this seriously and his relationship with Pep can be repaired. Chances are he'll just be sold. But he seriously looks like a new man, I'd love to see him playing at this weight and with fitness.

2) I'm really, really, super duper worried about Silva and KDB. This is one of those dark thoughts but one I just can't get out of my head. Pep seems to be recreating something like his Bayern blueprint and I think a 4-3-3 seems most likely with Aguero flanked by a couple of speedy beat a man types. Neither KDB nor Silva really seem like a fit for those roles, which means they may need to sit deeper in midfield. I think both can do a job there, but certainly not both of them can play as #8s especially once Gundogan returns. I think KDB can adapt and will more or less make it work but I'm super worried about Silva. I thought he'd be a natural in Pep's system but he hasn't looked good in the limited friendly time he's had and I worry that his tendency to drift all over the pitch is going to drive Pep mad. David Silva is one of my favorite players ever and I'm having convulsions thinking about the idea that he may become a problem now that we've got the greatest coach on the planet.
You can't read too much into friendlies, especially with the bizarre makeshift backline you started, but I think City should be a bit scared by that match last weekend. If Arsenal had been at all clinical, you could have been 3-0 down within 20 minutes solely off very, very bad turnovers trying to build out of the back. And Arsenal are not a great pressing team. I think Pep has some very interesting choices to make regarding how much to push players out of their comfort zones tactically in this first season. Even at Bayern, where he inherited a better team and especially a much more talented group of ballplaying midfielders and defenders, he didn't go too crazy in his first season. If I were him, I'd try to dial back the tactical innovation and start the year playing systems and tactics that aren't too radically different from Pelligrini.

I haven't watched any other City matches or followed the team news that much in pre-season, but its hard for me to believe that Silva won't be a significant part of Pep's plans. KDB is probably a better player in the abstract and obviously a more natural building block given his age. But Guardiola has always put a big tactical emphasis on having "needle players" in central midfield, guys like Iniesta and Thiago who are amazing in tight spaces and can help break down deep, compact defenses. Silva fits that mold much better than KDB in my view. Much like Muller, I'm not sure that KDB really has a natural fit in Pep's system.
 

teddykgb

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You can't read too much into friendlies, especially with the bizarre makeshift backline you started, but I think City should be a bit scared by that match last weekend. If Arsenal had been at all clinical, you could have been 3-0 down within 20 minutes solely off very, very bad turnovers trying to build out of the back. And Arsenal are not a great pressing team. I think Pep has some very interesting choices to make regarding how much to push players out of their comfort zones tactically in this first season. Even at Bayern, where he inherited a better team and especially a much more talented group of ballplaying midfielders and defenders, he didn't go too crazy in his first season. If I were him, I'd try to dial back the tactical innovation and start the year playing systems and tactics that aren't too radically different from Pelligrini.

I haven't watched any other City matches or followed the team news that much in pre-season, but its hard for me to believe that Silva won't be a significant part of Pep's plans. KDB is probably a better player in the abstract and obviously a more natural building block given his age. But Guardiola has always put a big tactical emphasis on having "needle players" in central midfield, guys like Iniesta and Thiago who are amazing in tight spaces and can help break down deep, compact defenses. Silva fits that mold much better than KDB in my view. Much like Muller, I'm not sure that KDB really has a natural fit in Pep's system.
I am without a doubt concerned. This was the first match with the full squad, however, and few of them had had many training days in the system, so I think a little step backward was inevitable. They looked better versus Bayern than any other match and that was after the first full week of training with a bunch of youth players who just played it the way he wanted.

Fundamentally, Pep's system will break down if the keeper can't play the ball to the feet of defenders who can initiate everything (unless the other team puts on a big press). With no actual CBs and a makeshift, inexperienced defense it probably was inevitable that Arsenal would give them trouble. Stones will obviously go a long way toward making this work and I think Otamendi is good enough with the ball (and better than both Fernando and Kolarov) that things should be a bit easier with those two in place. Kompany is also a converted midfielder who can play so when the CBs are at full strength I'll be much less worried about this.

Moyes isn't known for putting on much of a press and I expect Sunderland will sit deeper, so it may not be as much of an immediate problem anyway.
 

Schnerres

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I don´t know about most of the players, as I haven´t seen enough Premier League matches to judge most of them. And I don´t know about the system Pep will install. After all he could also try something else. But if I had to guess (I did not see any preseason matches, there had to be some action in that way: did they play a speedy counterattacking style or a possessionstyle?), I would also say he´s crazy in his head and will do it his way, no matter what. And that´ll be a 4-2-3-1 system (cannot play a 4-3-3 in a league with other decent teams, IMO), with Gündogan as one of the DMs, who will be a focal point in the build-up, playmaking. KDB is still young, he´s fast, he has lot of technical skill, played in counter-attacking systems in Bremen, Wolfsburg, last years Manchester, so I think he could take a role in the 3man attacking midfield. It doesn´t seem like he´s the Robben-style player who can beat a player via dribbling (he´s able to do it, I think), but at Bayern, Pep also played Müller there, a guy who does everything right it seems, but looks like he can´t do anything good, based on pure skill. Ofc Aguero should play the important matches up front, some combination of Sané, KDB and Sterling plays on the wings. Txiki+Pep will look out closely what will happen at Barca and if they can get Ter Stegen, no matter the money. I don´t think he´s good for a team defending many long high balls in the Premier League. So if Pep installs a system with 70% possession that allows only 5 shots on goal each game (like with Barca, Bayern), Ter Stegen will be a good keper for them.

Possible starting lineup could be (in 2 months):
------------Hart (Ter Stegen)-----------
--Sagna, Stones, Kolarov, Clichy---
-------Gündogan, Fernandinho-------
----------Sané, Silva, De Bruyne-------
---------------Aguero---------------------

Bench: Caballero, Kompany, Fernando, Nolito, Sterling.

I don´t know if that would work. I´d say a lot depends on the 2 CBs+2DMs and how they pace the game, if the 3AMs are able to beat the defenders (especially if the wings can beat the RB,LB) and if Aguero is happy to play this different game, as this would be a back-to-the-goal game for him and not the speedy goal-in-front game. Lewandowski can play everything, pacey, crosses, back-to-the-goal, whatever you need. I think Aguero can do this, too. But I also think he´s the same brand like Lewandowski - a moody player. They are both very consistent these days it seems, but they can also snap each moment, I would think. So Pep has to work on many things here. If they´re not succesful, that will bring more problems. Especially benching longtime stars (Nasri, captain Kompany) can bring trouble.
 

teddykgb

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I don´t know about most of the players, as I haven´t seen enough Premier League matches to judge most of them. And I don´t know about the system Pep will install. After all he could also try something else. But if I had to guess (I did not see any preseason matches, there had to be some action in that way: did they play a speedy counterattacking style or a possessionstyle?), I would also say he´s crazy in his head and will do it his way, no matter what. And that´ll be a 4-2-3-1 system (cannot play a 4-3-3 in a league with other decent teams, IMO), with Gündogan as one of the DMs, who will be a focal point in the build-up, playmaking. KDB is still young, he´s fast, he has lot of technical skill, played in counter-attacking systems in Bremen, Wolfsburg, last years Manchester, so I think he could take a role in the 3man attacking midfield. It doesn´t seem like he´s the Robben-style player who can beat a player via dribbling (he´s able to do it, I think), but at Bayern, Pep also played Müller there, a guy who does everything right it seems, but looks like he can´t do anything good, based on pure skill. Ofc Aguero should play the important matches up front, some combination of Sané, KDB and Sterling plays on the wings. Txiki+Pep will look out closely what will happen at Barca and if they can get Ter Stegen, no matter the money. I don´t think he´s good for a team defending many long high balls in the Premier League. So if Pep installs a system with 70% possession that allows only 5 shots on goal each game (like with Barca, Bayern), Ter Stegen will be a good keper for them.

Possible starting lineup could be (in 2 months):
------------Hart (Ter Stegen)-----------
--Sagna, Stones, Kolarov, Clichy---
-------Gündogan, Fernandinho-------
----------Sané, Silva, De Bruyne-------
---------------Aguero---------------------

Bench: Caballero, Kompany, Fernando, Nolito, Sterling.

I don´t know if that would work. I´d say a lot depends on the 2 CBs+2DMs and how they pace the game, if the 3AMs are able to beat the defenders (especially if the wings can beat the RB,LB) and if Aguero is happy to play this different game, as this would be a back-to-the-goal game for him and not the speedy goal-in-front game. Lewandowski can play everything, pacey, crosses, back-to-the-goal, whatever you need. I think Aguero can do this, too. But I also think he´s the same brand like Lewandowski - a moody player. They are both very consistent these days it seems, but they can also snap each moment, I would think. So Pep has to work on many things here. If they´re not succesful, that will bring more problems. Especially benching longtime stars (Nasri, captain Kompany) can bring trouble.
I think there's a lot of truth in here. I'd love to have Ter Stegen and I think he'd be a natural fit but I'm not sure they're going to be able to get him out of Barca just yet. Wouldn't surprise me if this becomes more of a January issue -- i think both Barca keepers want to be #1 and City will target whomever seems to be getting the short straw in Jan. Both would be an improvement on Hart, whom I like, but just seems like he won't fit this style.

I think you're way off on Kolarov. He's just not good enough with the ball to displace Kompany or Otamendi. I think Pep has had him there in a makeshift role due to making the numbers up in camp. A 4-2-3-1 would go a long way toward making the system a bit better for the Silva/KDB problem in that one of them could be given a role behind a striker and I've said before that I think KDB is the closest thing to Muller in the game today. Not tremendous dribblers, but really talented and versatile footballers with a knack for doing what needs to be done to win. If he's going to play this system, though, he's shown very little of it in pre season although maybe this has to do with Gundogan's absence. It's mostly been 4-3-3 and 3-5-2 thus far.

One player who has made a really good impression is Aleix Garcia. City have a couple of spanish yough in Brahim Diaz and Manu Garcia who seemed like they'd be Pep type players but it's Aleix who has played and even impressed. He's got a long passing range from deep and may figure into the lineup sooner than you might expect.
 

Schnerres

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I think you're way off on Kolarov. He's just not good enough with the ball to displace Kompany or Otamendi.
I thought as a WB he´s better on the ball than say Otamendi. Pep like´s fast, technical CBs, instead of the huge tackling bulls. Just saw you wrote Otamendi is better with the ball than Kolarov, so he could also be Pep´s 1st choice or he wants to bring in another CB.
I think with a 4-3-3 they would be too offensive. It might just be theory, as they could also play the same players I mentioned in the post above in the 4-2-3-1. I mean in the 4-2-3-1 the 2 wingers in the 3AMs (think Robben, Ribery or Coman, Douglas Costa last year) are playing like forwards, if you have possession most of the time. I think the problem with a 4-3-3 is that Pep likes his RB/LB to attack so much time and he basically needs a DM to fall back and help cover the defense. In a 4-3-3, where do you have that, as you only have a single central player, this is super tough. IMO a 4-3-3 means you have one LM, one CM, one RM and it won´t be possible to have two DM in central midfield that will give you cover (think Xabi Alonso/Thiago), build up the attack, link the defense with the offense a la Toni Kroos for Germany, etc.

We´ll see what Pep will draw in his magic book :)
 

teddykgb

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What a first week. To answer some of the initial questions here is what has gone down so far:

- Fernandinho has played the pivot and played it pretty damn well. He's shown a lot of responsibility and has dutifully stepped in between his CBs. In the match versus Stoke he even flashed a few defense splitting passes. It remains to be seen where he will play when Gundogan returns.

- Silva has been very much a part of the plan in a deeper CM role (along with KDB). I was worried about each of them but they've both played in CM ahead of Fernandinho and have been fine. Silva has looked better than KDB but KDB's late return may play a factor in that.

- Pep has compensated for this by placing his FBs in advanced, inverted positions. Zabaleta/Sagna and Clichy/Kolarov have been tucking inside and almost turning the formation into something like a 2-3-2-3. Provides layers to press the ball when the attack is lost and keeps passing options available. Lots of pressure placed on wide players to run at defenders and create


City have looked a bit mechanical thus far but have generated a lot more clear chances, imo, than they were generating last season. The purchase of Stones has been a god send, he was born to play in this kind of system and he's been instrumental thus far. Sterling has also continued to look like a man reborn under Pep. Nolito has provided a few goals. Navas still hits the first man with every cross.

Of everything, I think i'm most happy with the thumping of Bucharest in the CL Qualifier. They'll play the return leg at the Etihad tomorrow but it was an important match. The squad is oversized as it is and it would have been a disaster to not have the extra matches the CL provides for both financial and playing time reasons. Even more importantly, City have struggled against all levels of competition in Europe, it was nice to just see them line up and dominate a continental team.

The news around the team right now continues to be about transfers. It seems Bravo has arrived in Manchester today to sign, finally displacing Hart and Caballero. It shocks me that City are actually signing Barca's #1. Part of the mechanical nature of play has been due to Caballero's clear lack of comfort, so I think Bravo will be a huge huge huge addition. Now the landing place for the players Pep has seemingly decided aren't useful for him is the big story: Yaya, Nasri, Hart, Mangala and slightly strangely the young Belgian Denayer all seem to be struggling to find loans or permanent moves at the moment.
 

teddykgb

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Aguero banned for violent conduct. On a play that was "off the ball" that the "ref didn't see"



Although if I'm honest I'm mostly just having fun. In the end, Aguero threw an elbow that happened to not make contact (Reid grabs his face and certainly wasn't hit there) but there's enough intent there that the only complaint is how absurd it is to say it wasn't seen on the pitch. Probably more of a yellow than a red to me but if it had been dealt with in the match I'd have had no complaints.

The exodus of players seems about to start. Everyone will be on loan and City will have to pay large portions of wages. The guys doing the negotiations at City seem like pros but our inability to get any transfer values for some of these players boggles my mind. Hart is in Turin ahead of a transfer to Torino. Nasri is in Sevilla as they sell Konoplyanka. Mangala seemed set for a transfer to Porto but recent reports say a "mystery team" made a last minute bid. No idea what will happen with Bony. There are some reports that Denayer is headed back to Gala.
 

teddykgb

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Seems like the right time to bump this one. City have stopped "winnin" :)

It's a bad period. My thoughts are all over the place but I'm alternating between laughing my balls off at how much people want to act like England is somehow a special, different league and Guardiola is out of his depth and depressed that the team really needs as much change as it appeared and that the early results were an indian summer of sorts that gave false hope that Pep could turn around a set of players who had already run their race.

All of the talk in England is about the number of changes he's made, formation choices between 3 ATB and 4ATB, and whether or not Pep "understands" English football. As you might expect, it's all nonsense. City have been giving up comical, holy shit how did they concede a goal in that situation goals for nearly 4 years now. We continue to play the same players and expect different results.

Anyway, Christmas period looks tough. Lecicester dismantled City with two early goals. City still had multiple good penalty appeals turned away, which has happened a lot since the first month, and maybe could have gotten back in there, but the defending was shambolic and you can't complain when you do such things to yourself. Watford and Arsenal are on the horizon and you wouldn't fancy City to keep any of these teams out with a clean sheet at the moment. The only question is whether City can find a lethality they've lacked for months now. The stats say they are creating chances at a high volume. My eyes say they're creating half chances or worse but the few real chances they do create are all wasted. I'm more concerned that the opportunities they create are wasted. The entire system is geared to get them moving forward into space quickly and they've done a far better job of that than in previous seasons. But there are a sneaky number of one dimensional players in the City side and they've been unable to interchange and make the right play in such a way as to create goals. The shot always seems to fall to Navas or Silva or the pass to Aguero etc etc. A lethal attack requires players who can interchange and take the chance as it appears. City keeps squandering the chance. Defending gets a lot easier when you're ahead by 2 goals.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Seems like the right time to bump this one. City have stopped "winnin" :)

It's a bad period. My thoughts are all over the place but I'm alternating between laughing my balls off at how much people want to act like England is somehow a special, different league and Guardiola is out of his depth and depressed that the team really needs as much change as it appeared and that the early results were an indian summer of sorts that gave false hope that Pep could turn around a set of players who had already run their race.

All of the talk in England is about the number of changes he's made, formation choices between 3 ATB and 4ATB, and whether or not Pep "understands" English football. As you might expect, it's all nonsense. City have been giving up comical, holy shit how did they concede a goal in that situation goals for nearly 4 years now. We continue to play the same players and expect different results.

Anyway, Christmas period looks tough. Lecicester dismantled City with two early goals. City still had multiple good penalty appeals turned away, which has happened a lot since the first month, and maybe could have gotten back in there, but the defending was shambolic and you can't complain when you do such things to yourself. Watford and Arsenal are on the horizon and you wouldn't fancy City to keep any of these teams out with a clean sheet at the moment. The only question is whether City can find a lethality they've lacked for months now. The stats say they are creating chances at a high volume. My eyes say they're creating half chances or worse but the few real chances they do create are all wasted. I'm more concerned that the opportunities they create are wasted. The entire system is geared to get them moving forward into space quickly and they've done a far better job of that than in previous seasons. But there are a sneaky number of one dimensional players in the City side and they've been unable to interchange and make the right play in such a way as to create goals. The shot always seems to fall to Navas or Silva or the pass to Aguero etc etc. A lethal attack requires players who can interchange and take the chance as it appears. City keeps squandering the chance. Defending gets a lot easier when you're ahead by 2 goals.
I think you've been victimized by a bad (likely unsustainable) run of finishing. Advanced stats continue to suggest that City has been the best performing team in the league so far.

That said, I think it is shortsighted to dismiss the Pep criticism as complete nonsense. There may be a lot of nonsense going around but some of his team building and tactical choices have been truly questionable. Its one thing to be a mad scientist and play three at the back with only one true CB when you can trot out Alaba, Boateng, Lahm, with Neuer behind them to mop up mistakes. But playing a back three of Sagna, Stones, Kolarov in a tough away match, with the sieve that is Claudio Bravo behind them? Frankly, if Wenger (or another manager with analogous players) decided to play a back three of Monreal, Gabriel, and Debuchy away to Leicester, the entire British press - not to mention every Arsenal site on the internet - would be up in arms talking about how he had completely lost the plot.
 

teddykgb

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I think you've been victimized by a bad (likely unsustainable) run of finishing. Advanced stats continue to suggest that City has been the best performing team in the league so far.

That said, I think it is shortsighted to dismiss the Pep criticism as complete nonsense. There may be a lot of nonsense going around but some of his team building and tactical choices have been truly questionable. Its one thing to be a mad scientist and play three at the back with only one true CB when you can trot out Alaba, Boateng, Lahm, with Neuer behind them to mop up mistakes. But playing a back three of Sagna, Stones, Kolarov in a tough away match, with the sieve that is Claudio Bravo behind them? Frankly, if Wenger (or another manager with analogous players) decided to play a back three of Monreal, Gabriel, and Debuchy away to Leicester, the entire British press - not to mention every Arsenal site on the internet - would be up in arms talking about how he had completely lost the plot.
Pep is pep. He thinks that he can flood the midfield and protect the defenders by smothering out the supply. The mistakes made against Leicester were not counter attacking issues. They had 2 v 3, 8 v 4, 2 v 2, and a back pass. Just comical, awful defending. I agree that it is a talent problem.

When i say it is nonsense I mean that the English game isn't some totally different charade to the German or Spanish game as the English press would have you believe. I know that to many in England the game ceases to be played when you hit the channel but Pep has faced a side that plays long balls before, has played against strong strikers before and teams that hit on the counter. The challenge of coaching in England is learning how to manage the rigorous schedule and not overreach to a few bad results from time to time because there's a depth to the league that means losses are going to happen. Football is a brutal sport, if England's "special tactics" were special against the type of football Pep/Bielsa/Barca, etc plays then you'd see it played all over Europe very quickly. The idea that he can't cope with the incredibly difficult challenge of the way PL teams attack you while PL teams fall flat on their faces year after year in Europe is so hopelessly Anglocentric that it really does make me laugh.
 

SocrManiac

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I hope fans of the team don't mind an interloper, but I have to ask how Otamendi seems to get such a pass from fans and media alike. Stones and Bravo are obvious targets of ire (and rightfully so), but he shouldn't be far behind.

He first drew my attention in the CL matches against Juventus. He dove (or fell over with slight contact) in a challenge against Mario Mandzukic, conceding the only goal in a 1-0 Juventus win. Maybe it's confirmation bias, but since then he's appeared to be the weakest "tough guy" center back I've ever seen. He's often out-muscled by guys half his size. He's always looking to the referee, often with the play still in progress. Son's equalizer Saturday is a perfect example- he stopped playing to appeal and got burned. He's a ball watcher, takes stupid yellow cards, and seems like a general liability at the back.

The only area he seems to excel is in one on one situations with an attacker running at him. He's very difficult to beat, but that's only a one of several tools a center back needs. He seems average at best in the air, poor in his positioning, very soft physically... Stones has had some seriously high profile mistakes, but Otamendi's overall level of play and confidence seems far lower.
 

teddykgb

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I'm always happy to talk City. I'm happy to type my thoughts and try to represent the fans.

He's a very controversial player among City fans. The stats LOVE him. If you want to produce a case that Otamendi is great you will not struggle to do so. High volumes of interceptions, duels won, etc. At the very least you can say he's an active defender, he puts himself about and unlke many City defenders he's usually not at fault because he stood 5 yards off his man.

But he's definitely not gone unnoticed and many fans are very tired of him. The diving stuff bothers a fair few, as it always does, although to be fair to him he's been pushed by opponents in two consecutive weeks and received two yellows for his trouble. Players all around the league and world exaggerate contact, especially in these situations, and while it isn't my cup of tea I think it's the least of his problems. As you correctly stated, he has a bad habit of doing it in open play and I don't think it makes any sense for a CB to turn the game into a ref lottery, especially the way things have gone at City as it's clear refs do not view them favorably.

I think the truth is in the middle. He's about as comfortable with the ball at his feet as you can ask for out of a CB. Not always the most accurate passer, but I never worry when he's on the ball that something dumb is about to happen. He does intercept and defend from the front a lot, which can be nice. But fundamentally he's undersized and always has to try to get around a large player or challenge for headers with tall players and every once in a while he gets burned. Or he goes to ground (which he does a lot) and takes himself out of the play leaving his teammates to have to piece together a makeshift defensive line. Every once in a while he plays really within himself and he plays a great match, but it's clear he can go on tilt and when he does he just starts making rash decisions and taking crazy chances and there's no reeling him in.

I think he'd be fine as a 3rd CB on a team with a settled 2. He can play with either foot, works very hard and as I said usually puts himself about (last match not withstanding, he didn't do enough for either goal). I tend to believe that Pep wanted to play a 3 at the back system all along (bought Stones and wanted Laporte to add to Kompany, Otamendi, and ultimately Kolarov) and this is why full backs were neglected in the summer window. But the same poor full backs run out every match and City have shown a real vulnerability to challenging/cutting out crosses, putting the CBs in some difficult situations. Whether Pep sees Otamendi as the 3rd CB in a back 3 or 4th CB in that scenario I do not know. I suspect he's too rash for him. In a non Pep world, I think he'd make a fantastic CDM, as the position plays to his instincts and his selling out wouldn't cost his team as much, but he'll never be a pivot in a Pep team, just isn't an accurate enough passer.

In the end, Valencia were out of money and owed City over the Negredo deal and I think taking their best defender was the best City could do at the time. He's been useful, but he's not the class of CB needed. Nonetheless, he's probably the best City have got, which is reflected in the shots to goals ratio City are seeing.
 

SocrManiac

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Got caught up in some other stuff and forgot to come back to this. Thank you for your thoughts, Teddy. I have a sore spot for his style of play in general, likely coloring my perception to an extreme that doesn't exist. It bothers me enough when I see a striker dive to draw a penalty. Other than Pepe, I can't really name another that goes to ground in his own box that often. Drives me nuts.

That's secondary to goalkeepers making soft, comfortable catches in the 85th minute and diving on the ball. That's fingernails on the chalkboard to me.

In general, it seems that you'd agree that if his partner wasn't so expensive while making high profile mistakes, Otamendi's role would be in higher focus. My view is that he's a larger part of the defensive trouble than he's getting "credit" for right now. Lower hanging fruit, so to speak.