2016-2017 NBA Game Thread

Cesar Crespo

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Former Celtic Jordan Crawford played his first game in the NBA in 2 years with NO last night. 8/15 from the floor, 3/7 from 3. 19 points, 3 assists, 2 steals and a rebound in 20 minutes.

Khris Middleton seems to be playing without a minutes restriction now too and the Bucks look like a totally different team. He also seems to have improved his game some, mostly with distributing the ball.
 

Kliq

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Nurkic and Sabonis get tangled up going for a loose ball. I couldn't care less about them getting in a fight, but if their Dads got in a fight; that would be a PPV level event.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Dirk becomes just the sixth player to score 30,000 points in league history. The bizarre thing was how he did it...

Actually, it was not bizarre at all. It was classic Dirk...
 

Kliq

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Westbrook with an incredible individual performance right now on NBATV.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I wonder if his amazing performance of late could potentially cost him MVP votes. He's only 2 assists above the needed amount to average 10 and if he doesn't average a triple double things could get interesting. Assuming voters vote for that sorta thing.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I wonder if his amazing performance of late could potentially cost him MVP votes. He's only 2 assists above the needed amount to average 10 and if he doesn't average a triple double things could get interesting. Assuming voters vote for that sorta thing.
The MVP vote is kind of fascinating this year if you are into that sort of thing (to me its so subjective that its virtually meaningless). There are ostensibly five candidates in Westbrook, Harden, Leonard, Thomas and DeRozan though the latter two won't get much serious consideration. Were he not injured, I might throw Durant into the mix as well but we've already discussed the fact that being part of a super-team dings you.

That said, after Kawhi's big night out on Monday, it seemed as if the odds shifted in his favor a bit. While the media is fascinated with Westbrook and marvels at Harden and his elite offensive skills, they seem to genuinely love Leonard for his versatility and his quiet efficiency. In short, like BSF, I won't be shocked nor could I argue with him winning it.

The side benefit of that outcome is that Westbrook might actually best this year's performance on a mission to prove everyone that they got this one all wrong. Aside from Harden, it might be an everyone wins scenario...
 

jmm57

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LeBron won't win, but I'd put him ahead if IT and Derozan. Betting sites seem to agree.
 

Schnerres

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There´s no way to make an MVP statement for/against a single player and include "no way".
I hope it plays out like this:
Spurs overtake the Warriors and stay ahead although both teams rest their guys in the final 10 games. Rockets go 12-6 to end season 56-26, OKC goes 9-9 to finish 44-38, I hope(!! although I don´t think he can finish it, based on how the last few weeks have been going) Westbrook gets enough assists to finish with the triple double. Kawhi averages 30+ ppg for the rest of the season and he wins the MVP award. Westbrook goes nuts and gets swept in the 1st round vs. the Rockets.
 

DannyDarwinism

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The MVP vote is kind of fascinating this year if you are into that sort of thing (to me its so subjective that its virtually meaningless). There are ostensibly five candidates in Westbrook, Harden, Leonard, Thomas and DeRozan though the latter two won't get much serious consideration.
While I agree that IT and Derozan won't (and shouldn't) get much serious consideration, I'm curious why you included Derozan. Was your "ostensibly" meant to imply that these are the guys talked up the most as MVP candidates in the NBA media? Because I don't really see the case for Derozan over Leonard, Butler or Wall, and barring Lowry's bum wrist, I wouldn't even have him as the Raptors' MVP.
 

Sam Ray Not

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There's no way to make an MVP statement for/against a single player and include "no way".
Hmmm, how about this: there's no way DeMar DeRozan will be or should be seriously considered for MVP. Dude is not even the best player on the 9th best team in the league. By RPM, he's currently the #138 ranked player in the league — heck, not even the best player named "DeMar(re)" on his team. I mean, RPM is far from a perfect gauge, but #138? You really have to worship at the altar of PPG and/or long two-pointers to consider DeRozan a viable MVP candidate.

My $.02: it should be Kawhi or LeBron (the Cavs being 4-20 without LeBron since he returned is really pretty remarkable). "Will be" is always a tougher call, but with the Spurs now making a serious run for the #1 seed, I totally see Kawhi winning it, with Draymond picking up DPOY as a consolation prize. #2 MVP Harden, #3 Westbrook, #4 James.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah LeBron was a huge oversight and he will get votes but he isn't likely to win. Insofar as DeRozan is concerned, some of the recent national broadcasts have mentioned him presumably because of his scoring average (efficiency aside).

The larger point is that none of those three are likely to get enough support to win though LeBron certainly should be in the conversation.

Instead it will boil down to Westbrook, Harden and Leonard. Based entirely on the unscientific NBA Twitter sentiment method it seems like Leonard surpassed Harden of late. That was my main point.
 
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the moops

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I hope it plays out like this:
Spurs overtake the Warriors and stay ahead although both teams rest their guys in the final 10 games. Rockets go 12-6 to end season 56-26, OKC goes 9-9 to finish 44-38, I hope(!! although I don´t think he can finish it, based on how the last few weeks have been going) Westbrook gets enough assists to finish with the triple double. Kawhi averages 30+ ppg for the rest of the season and he wins the MVP award. Westbrook goes nuts and gets swept in the 1st round vs. the Rockets.
Why exactly do you want this scenario to unfold?
 

BigSoxFan

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Spurs without Kawhi/Aldridge were down 28 to the Kings in the first half.

They won by 10.
 

Schnerres

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Why exactly do you want this scenario to unfold?
From my hundreds of personal conversations i´ve had with both of them, it seems to me that Kawhi is the more likable person. I admit it would be fun to see a triple-double for the season, but without the wins and a top5 finish in the West it´s not worth as much, I think. Then Westbrook either gets frustrated or does come back even better, I have no idea.


(I know, I´m just fantasizing. I have no idea of the NBA.)
 

NoXInNixon

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I want whatever scenario makes the Thunder most likely to want to trade Westbrook this offseason to the Celtics.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The Spurs lose their back-to-back in OKC 102-92. Westbrook is unWestbrookian...or maybe he wasn't, shooting 7-21 and scoring 23 points with Oladipo chipping in 20 points. This week's new MVP darling Kawhi Leonard only notched 19 points though he played just 26 minutes. The Warriors lead, which was 1.5 last night, went back to two.

In other seeding news, a team known as LeBron James, Kyrie Irving and their average rotation buddies lost in Detroit 106-101. Bron was great in the game, notching a triple double (13 boards, 10 assists), while shooting 12-22 for 29 points. Irving added 27 points on good shooting while supposed Cleveland saviors, the Williamses (Deron and Derrick) were -12 and -21 in BPM respectively.

The most remarkable stat of the night was that LeBron played 39 minutes as did Kyrie. I know the guy is superhuman but this is just nuts for an older player playing in shitty, late-season game in Detroit when the Cavs are the favorite out of the East, one seed or not. Their lead over the C's is now just two...
 

Sam Ray Not

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Cavs last 2 games…

LeBron on the floor: +32 in 77:46
LeBron off the floor: -45 in 18:14.

-45 in 18 minutes??
 

Kliq

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Deron Williams looks cooked. It's strange to see LeBron lose even when he and Kyrie play exceptionally well, to an average team. Is their supporting cast THAT bad? I know they don't have Love, but Korver, Thompson, Frye and Shumpert are solid specialists that should be enough when you get A performances from LeBron and Irving.

I have no idea who I'd vote for MVP; whoever wins it has definitely earned it.
 

NWsoxophile

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Nurkic has looked really good since joining the Blazers. He put up a pretty impressive line tonight against Philly with 26 pts, 20 rbs, 8 assists, 6 blocks, 2 steals.
 

Devizier

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Deron Williams looks cooked. It's strange to see LeBron lose even when he and Kyrie play exceptionally well, to an average team. Is their supporting cast THAT bad?
Yes, they really are. I think it merits mentioning that Smith, Williams, Korver, Frye, etc. are all >31 years old.
 

smastroyin

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It's great that they are competing or trying to compete every night, but it's really gotta hurt to not give your stars any rest and still lose.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The most remarkable stat of the night was that LeBron played 39 minutes as did Kyrie. I know the guy is superhuman but this is just nuts for an older player playing in shitty, late-season game in Detroit when the Cavs are the favorite out of the East, one seed or not. Their lead over the C's is now just two...
LeBron has also sat out 5 games this year due to "rest" and will probably tag on a few more before the playoffs begin. Strategically sitting out 10% of his teams games seems like a responsible way to prepare a high usage veteran like LeBron for the playoffs. If he played 34 minutes instead of 39 a night I wouldn't feel it affects him either way. If you're going to play him then play him......6-7 extra trips up the floor is pretty irrelevant imo. It isn't like LeBron is Kareem circa 1987.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Nurkic has looked really good since joining the Blazers. He put up a pretty impressive line tonight against Philly with 26 pts, 20 rbs, 8 assists, 6 blocks, 2 steals.
I thought Denver largely traded for Plumlee because of his passing for when Jokic sits. It's amazing how many of these big Euros can pass and have complete games compared to the American bigs. 8 games, 30.3minutes, 16.5 points, 9.6 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.63 steals, 1.88 blocks on .539/---/.750 since being traded to Portland. He's at 4 personal fouls and 3.3 turnovers too. The turnovers looked like a problem in Denver but not so much in Portland when he's distributing the way he is. He's also shown the ability to get to the free throw line. I can't wait to see Ante Zizic.

I wonder if Denver ends up regretting that deal. Nurkic/Jokic can't really exist on the floor together at the moment because they are both turnstyles but Nurkic could develop into a decent rim protector in the next few years. He is showing signs of doing that in Portland while also being able to disrupt passing lanes. Denver didn't really have minutes to give him while pushing for the playoffs but he's stepped it up with playing time. Kinda wish the Celtics got involved now, he'd at least help with rebounding. That deal may come to bite Denver in the ass long term and possible short term. It could cost them a playoff spot this year. Portland is 5-3 in those games and winners of 4 straight, 1 game behind Denver for the 8th spot.

Dallas is still in the hunt and with their defense, can never be ruled out. Minnesota is also 10-6 without Zach LaVine and haven't missed a beat offensively with KAT and Wiggins taking the load. Defensively, they are better with Rush and Jones getting LaVine's minutes. I thought Denver would run away with it, but these other teams are stepping up too. If this is the real Nurkic though, it changes the dynamic in Portland greatly. It gives them a 3rd legit player behind Lilliard and McCollum, and one who can potentially play defense. I think we could see some really inspired ball from some of these teams and a great race for the last playoff spot.



Also, I'll never understand the hatred of DeMar DeRozan on this board. I get it's a saber metric community, but he's a top 20-30 player in the NBA. It doesn't really mean anything but the Raptors are 6-2 without Lowry, they are 3-4 without DeRozan. He's kinda like IT4 in that he has his warts and some advanced metrics don't like him very much. I'd take him on the Celtics in a heartbeat though.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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DeRozan is very good but, speaking only for me, its tough to love high volume mid range shooters in today's NBA.

Regarding LeBron's minutes, HRB, makes a good point that he has sat out games. However I still think playing 37-39 minutes a night for a 32 year old with his milage is tempting fate. As we all know, in addition to his 14 seasons, he has played the equivalent of over two more counting playoffs where he has averaged 42 high stress minutes per game. If I am Lue, I am hiding LeBron's uniform a few more games this season and keeping him on the bench for extended times over the next few weeks.

Finally, its worth noting that Korver sat out last night with foot issues. The Cavs are a pretty old team.
 

Sprowl

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...and Tronna loses! Atlanta continues to make trouble for the Eastern conference contenders.
 

Kliq

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Warriors lose by one in Minnesota; Minnesota tried really, really hard to give away a 17 point lead.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Wizards have come back from at least 15 down in the 4th quarter in Sactown to cut the game within 2 with 5:32 left. A win would put them in a tie with Boston, but give them a higher win %.

edit: Wizards win in OT. Beal scores 17 in the 4th and 5 in OT to help seal the deal. Tied with Boston.
 
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jon abbey

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Wizards have come back from at least 15 down in the 4th quarter in Sactown to cut the game within 2 with 5:32 left. A win would put them in a tie with Boston, but give them a higher win %.

edit: Wizards win in OT. Beal scores 17 in the 4th and 5 in OT to help seal the deal. Tied with Boston.
Thanks for posting about this one, I wasn't paying attention and I watched the last few minutes and the OT, fun one.
 

Sam Ray Not

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The inactive list for tonight's Spurs/Ws tilt would be by a pretty wide margin the best team in NBA history.

Warriors: Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Durant, Green
Spurs: Parker, Murray, Leonard, Aldridge

lol@ABC (and get well soon, Kawhi, Aldridge and KD!)
 

Kliq

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The inactive list for tonight's Spurs/Ws tilt would be by a pretty wide margin the best team in NBA history.

Warriors: Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Durant, Green
Spurs: Parker, Murray, Leonard, Aldridge

lol@ABC (and get well soon, Kawhi, Aldridge and KD!)
I know the Warriors want rest, but why give away this game to SA? Let's be honest here; SA is going to win this game when Dallas Bertans scores 35 points.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I know the Warriors want rest, but why give away this game to SA? Let's be honest here; SA is going to win this game when Dallas Bertans scores 35 points.
Not if Pat McCaw has something to say about it. Let's see if he passes up open looks like he has been doing all season now that there will be nobody else on the court.
 

AMS25

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The inactive list for tonight's Spurs/Ws tilt would be by a pretty wide margin the best team in NBA history.

Warriors: Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Durant, Green
Spurs: Parker, Murray, Leonard, Aldridge

lol@ABC (and get well soon, Kawhi, Aldridge and KD!)
Battle of the JV Teams! Actually, I think it will be pretty interesting to watch, even without the stars.
 

Kliq

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Not if Pat McCaw has something to say about it. Let's see if he passes up open looks like he has been doing all season now that there will be nobody else on the court.
I'll never doubt Pop's ability to piece together a game between bench guys. I think he could win 30 games with a college team.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I'll never doubt Pop's ability to piece together a game between bench guys. I think he could win 30 games with a college team.
The guy is the best basketball coach I have ever seen and the Spurs are the best run franchise in the NBA so argument here. What is also awesome is that they are doing it in San Antonio and not one of the larger markets which is great for all sorts of reasons. I think Shea Serrano may die from sadness the day Pop retires.
 

Kliq

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The guy is the best basketball coach I have ever seen and the Spurs are the best run franchise in the NBA so argument here. What is also awesome is that they are doing it in San Antonio and not one of the larger markets which is great for all sorts of reasons. I think Shea Serrano may die from sadness the day Pop retires.
This is my point though. Kerr is a very good coach but the Spurs are basically giving SA a free win here by benching its stars for rest. In a WC race for the one seed, I don't know why GS isn't just taking the free head-to-head win tonight. Bench them when you play the Kings.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This is my point though. Kerr is a very good coach but the Spurs are basically giving SA a free win here by benching its stars for rest. In a WC race for the one seed, I don't know why GS isn't just taking the free head-to-head win tonight. Bench them when you play the Kings.
One of Golden State's beat writers (Tim Kawakami) was on Twitter last night speculating that they are playing so poorly right now that to go in and lose to the Spurs at full strength would be a bad outcome for the psyche of the team.

The truth is, Golden State is gassed and Durant had been covering up some of their flaws on both sides of the ball. Thompson and Curry have regressed off of prior years and career averages from deep and are taking more shots around the basket (and making them too - Curry is having his second best 2P% season while Thompson is having a career year inside the arc). However this team is built on them making threes, not twos - the combination of their shooting woes and Durant's absence has messed up their spacing on offense. Missed threes also have resulted in more fast breaks for opponents. On the defensive side of the ball, they miss Durant as well and especially with Thompson regressing defensively and Iguodala continuing to decline.

So there you have it. The Spurs may be without LaMarcus Aldridge for a while (or not). The Warriors are sputtering and even when Durant returns, its not clear what he will be able to give them. And the Cavs are without Love for a while and its not clear what he will be able to do upon his return. Furthermore, they are heavily dependent on LeBron and Kyrie to play big minutes to carry the load.

In short, the playoffs and even championship may be more wide open than we think. Any one of San Antonio (assuming Aldridge comes back in short order), Houston, the Clippers from the West may make the finals instead of Golden State while the East might still get one of Toronto, Washington or Boston instead of Cleveland.
 

mauf

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I'll never doubt Pop's ability to piece together a game between bench guys. I think he could win 30 games with a college team.
Vegas agrees with you -- the Spurs are 11-point favorites tonight.

Wouldn't be surprised if tonight is an inflection point, and we see different rules about resting players going forward. Easy fix would be to make it a violation of league rules to rest more than one of your top six players (by minutes), unless they are legitimately hurt (defined as also missing the preceding or following game).
 
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Kliq

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One of Golden State's beat writers (Tim Kawakami) was on Twitter last night speculating that they are playing so poorly right now that to go in and lose to the Spurs at full strength would be a bad outcome for the psyche of the team.

The truth is, Golden State is gassed and Durant had been covering up some of their flaws on both sides of the ball. Thompson and Curry have regressed off of prior years and career averages from deep and are taking more shots around the basket (and making them too - Curry is having his second best 2P% season while Thompson is having a career year inside the arc). However this team is built on them making threes, not twos - the combination of their shooting woes and Durant's absence has messed up their spacing on offense. Missed threes also have resulted in more fast breaks for opponents. On the defensive side of the ball, they miss Durant as well and especially with Thompson regressing defensively and Iguodala continuing to decline.

So there you have it. The Spurs may be without LaMarcus Aldridge for a while (or not). The Warriors are sputtering and even when Durant returns, its not clear what he will be able to give them. And the Cavs are without Love for a while and its not clear what he will be able to do upon his return. Furthermore, they are heavily dependent on LeBron and Kyrie to play big minutes to carry the load.

In short, the playoffs and even championship may be more wide open than we think. Any one of San Antonio (assuming Aldridge comes back in short order), Houston, the Clippers from the West may make the finals instead of Golden State while the East might still get one of Toronto, Washington or Boston instead of Cleveland.
I guess something that flew under the radar was that Curry was making a superhuman amount of threes last season, many being very difficult shots. In the midst of everyone losing their mind over how good he was (and rightfully so, he was amazing last year) I guess most people never really thought it was unsustainable, which it looks like it was. Then their depth took a hit when they lost Barnes, Bogut, Ezeli and Speights, plus guys like Iggy and Livingston are another year older.

I don't know what the odds are but I wouldn't be surprised to see Houston win the championship this year. Things are starting to break for them and they are just unstoppable on offense similar to the way peak GS runs. They rely on the three more than anyone, but I think they do it in a more sustainable way, by having a bunch of deadeye shooters to space the floor. GS relied on threes, but I feel like they are more difficult looks and rely on Thompson or Curry getting really hot.