2016-2017 NBA Game Thread
- Thread starter Kliq
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Now all we have to do is keep David Stern (I know) from the screwing with the ping-pong balls for the next 6 weeks..
He's been awesome this year; 26.5-5-6 with good shooting percentages and he didn't make the all-star team and won't make All-NBA; just a crazy good year for guards.
Speaking of All-NBA, things are starting to get interesting. For the forwards, you have imo 5 locks in Kawhi, LeBron, Giannis and Draymond and Anthony Davis. That last spot will be really interesting; Durant had a first-team spot locked up until he missed a good chunk of games and that opened the door for other guys. Jimmy Butler, at 24-6-5 with 2 steals a game plus great defense, could be named. I think Paul George may have overtaken the pole position though thanks to some monster play during Indy's playoff push. Since the beginning of March he is averaging: 28-7-3 and is shooting 49/41/86 with great defense.
The guards are ridiculous, Harden, Westbrook, Thomas, Curry, Wall are all locks. Then you have to argue about Dame, Klay, DeRozan (27-5-4, 55 TS%, kept Toronto afloat minus Lowry) and CP3. Then you have guys like Conley, Kemba, Dragic, Bledsoe, Beal, etc.
The guards are ridiculous, Harden, Westbrook, Thomas, Curry, Wall are all locks. Then you have to argue about Dame, Klay, DeRozan (27-5-4, 55 TS%, kept Toronto afloat minus Lowry) and CP3. Then you have guys like Conley, Kemba, Dragic, Bledsoe, Beal, etc.
All NBA 2016-17...
First team: Westbrook, Harden, Leonard, James, Davis
Second team: the Warriors
Third team: Thomas, Butler, Antetokounmpo, George, Gobert
First team: Westbrook, Harden, Leonard, James, Davis
Second team: the Warriors
Third team: Thomas, Butler, Antetokounmpo, George, Gobert
Scoreless in six minutes in the second quarter, also the only time he sat all game, so 59 in the other 36 minutes.
All NBA is super hard to figure out this year. Good to hear some media guys talking about how serious they are taking it, considering the amount of money it means to players like George and Hayward.
Can't figure out a way to squeeze all the deserving players in. Davis as 1st team center helps a bit, for then you can put Gobert and Cousins as 2nd and 3rd. Leaving Durant off seems foolish, but I am wondering if the 60 games played is gonna be enough. If he is on, and he should be, that means one of Butler or George needs to be left off. Or if you put Butler at guard, it means one of Thomas or Wall need to be left off.
Harden, Westbrook, Kawhi, Lebron, Davis
Curry, Paul, Durant, Giannis, Gobert
Thomas, Wall, George, Green, Cousins
Ugh
Can't figure out a way to squeeze all the deserving players in. Davis as 1st team center helps a bit, for then you can put Gobert and Cousins as 2nd and 3rd. Leaving Durant off seems foolish, but I am wondering if the 60 games played is gonna be enough. If he is on, and he should be, that means one of Butler or George needs to be left off. Or if you put Butler at guard, it means one of Thomas or Wall need to be left off.
Harden, Westbrook, Kawhi, Lebron, Davis
Curry, Paul, Durant, Giannis, Gobert
Thomas, Wall, George, Green, Cousins
Ugh
I just can't see leaving Butler out of there. He'd be ahead of both Giannis and George for me, or Wall if you want him at guard. But agreed, tough choices.
The amount of talent in the NBA might be at an all time high. Towns stats are unbelievable and he won't sniff an All NBA team.
I feel more comfortable with Westbrook as MVP (where I think it's reasonable to factor in hype, crazy non-stop effort despite mediocre teammates, eye-popping counting stats, etc.) than I do with him as "all NBA first team," which to me is supposed to be more of a dispassionate snapshot for posterity of the actual best players at each position in a given year. Curry to me is pretty clearly a *better* player than Westbrook (far more efficient, generally owns him head to head, beats him easily by statistical measures that relate to wins, and leads a team that is 20+ games better than Russ's).
Meanwhile, Durant generally owns everyone in the NBA not named LeBron and is fairly plainly the second-best basketball player in the world (has clearly been the best player on the last 2-3 Team USA gold medal teams, significantly outplayed both Kawhi and Draymond in last year's playoffs, etc.) so should not be on anyone's "second team."
Throwing it out there..
First: Curry-Leonard*-James-Durant-Davis
Second: Paul-Harden-George-Green-Gobert
Third: Westbrook-Butler-Antetokounmpo-Millsap-MGasol
*Invoking the "a wing is a wing" clause, cos I don't want Harden over Kawhi.
Meanwhile, Durant generally owns everyone in the NBA not named LeBron and is fairly plainly the second-best basketball player in the world (has clearly been the best player on the last 2-3 Team USA gold medal teams, significantly outplayed both Kawhi and Draymond in last year's playoffs, etc.) so should not be on anyone's "second team."
Throwing it out there..
First: Curry-Leonard*-James-Durant-Davis
Second: Paul-Harden-George-Green-Gobert
Third: Westbrook-Butler-Antetokounmpo-Millsap-MGasol
*Invoking the "a wing is a wing" clause, cos I don't want Harden over Kawhi.
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24.9 PPG and 12.1 boards with a 57.1 EFG% and 1.3 blocks per game. He is within the top 15 of all three categories and yet you are right - he doesn't even rate for All NBA. Insane...
Yea, I think there is almost zero chance. With George's amazing finish, and Durant making his way back before the end of the season, there really isn't any room on it for him.
Still a chance that George doesn't make it. If Davis is considered a forward on enought ballots, there is a chance that he sneaks onto 2nd team as a forward, putting Gobert as 1st team center.
Arguably not even in the top 3 for Centers 24 and under with Davis, Jokic, Embiid, and maybe even Gobert. Even the 2nd tier of young centers is stacked with guys like Myles Turner and Josef Nurkic. Then you have Hernangomez, WCS, Zubac and the like showing flashes with the playing time they have gotten. This is the best group of centers we've had since the late 80s and early 90's with Shaq, Mourning, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Parrish, Smits and the like. Towns has stepped it up a notch since the LaVine injury. They are 12-17 since, but 15-17 for the season without LaVine. Compared to 16-31 with him.
Towns after LaVine's injury: 29 games, 37.8 minutes, .585/.398/.872 28.1 points, 12.3 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 0.8spg, 0.8bpg.
Towns before Lavine injury: 50 games, 36.4 minutes, .548/.341/.807 23.0 points, 11.9 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 0.6spg, 1.5bpg.
Paul George has been really good all year minus a terrible February. His especially strong finish makes me wonder why people think he's damaged goods. He's now shooting a career high from the field and FT line while posting his 2nd best 3 point shooting season to date. Granted, he was really, really bad in February.
Cavs have Miami and Toronto left. Miami is playing for a playoff spot. I'm not sure if Toronto is playing for anything unless they hold tie breakers over the Celtics and Cavs... Celtics could still win the division and have games against the Nets and Bucks. The Bucks game might matter but it might not.
lololol
Russ eliminates the Nuggets, puts the Blazers in the playoffs, and wraps up the MVP (if it wasn't wrapped up already) with one shot.
Russ eliminates the Nuggets, puts the Blazers in the playoffs, and wraps up the MVP (if it wasn't wrapped up already) with one shot.
Why are nugs eliminated?? Only a game behind blazers and they have 3 to play and Portland has 2?
Also Russ with the record. What an incredible season. He's amazing. Deserves MVP and shouldn't be debatable. You get a record that no one thought would ever be broken you get MVP. Case closed
Haha. First one is a straw man you invented. I'd agree with the second — if the criteria for "all NBA" is "best players at helping their team win." It's no shame to be worse at basketball than Chris Paul and Steph Curry, who are arguably the two best small guys ever to play the game.
As for the third, I mean, he doesn't play for a contender. I'm cool with that not being one's overriding criterion for MVP, but I think it's at least worth noting.
Westbrook has scored 50 or more points 4 times this year. In 3 of those games, he had a triple double.
Do you think Chris Paul has had a better season than Westbrook? I already know you think Curry did.
Miami will be at home in a must win game tomorrow night against the Cavs. LeBron played 47 minutes, Irving played 45 minutes and Love played 42 minutes today. Gotta think the plan was to rest those guys if they beat Atlanta. Wonder how much they will play on the second night of a back to back.
So, I guess the Cavs just decided to "turn it on" for one game.
They can be had, and that's why I was disappointed the other night.
I agree. I would buy the "flip the switch" argument more if Kyrie and LeBron were resting a lot or playing under 30 minutes a game frequently. Cleveland has struggled and LeBron and Kyrie are bringing their A games. Tonight Kyrie scored 45 and LeBron had a monster triple-double and it still wasn't enough. Cleveland is in a position where LeBron can have a ridiculous game and they can still beaten. They are the favorites but this is maybe the weakest LeBron team since before he left Miami.
No, but that's largely because he only played 60 games. I think I made it pretty clear in my post that my criteria for all NBA first team / second team / third team is a little different from my criteria for MVP: not so much "who had the best season?" as "who's the best player at their position at this point in history?" ("a dispassionate snapshot for posterity of the actual best players at each position in a given year").
In that sense, missing 20 games matters less to me than the fact that Curry and Paul are currently better at basketball (better = better at helping their teams win) than Westbrook. Again, that doesn't mean Westbrook isn't freaking awesome, in his own totally unique way.
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Two things - first, that Westbrook shot was amazing. He is getting the MVP regardless of the arguments in favor of Harden's efficiency or Kawhi's two way prowess or LeBron being the best player on the face of the planet.
Regarding the Cavs/Cs game last week, I will simply say that you cannot read too much into one NBA game. I realize I am in a very tiny minority but I think under the right circumstances, the C's can still steal a series from Cleveland. It won't be easy - no playoff series will be easy for Boston - but they can take a closely contested set of games if their defense shows up and they get enough points out of the other guys not named Thomas. The coaching also favors Boston. Again, I realize that I am probably the last person on this board who believes this so all grief aimed here will be accepted without tears.
Regarding the Cavs/Cs game last week, I will simply say that you cannot read too much into one NBA game. I realize I am in a very tiny minority but I think under the right circumstances, the C's can still steal a series from Cleveland. It won't be easy - no playoff series will be easy for Boston - but they can take a closely contested set of games if their defense shows up and they get enough points out of the other guys not named Thomas. The coaching also favors Boston. Again, I realize that I am probably the last person on this board who believes this so all grief aimed here will be accepted without tears.
I would love to be on this train but I just can't see it, even with Cleveland struggling a little bit. I think the Celtics are more likely to get swept by Cleveland than to win a series.
One way to look at it: Gregg Popovich (shorthand for best basketball mind out there) has to put together the best team of NBA players, right now, to win a death match seven-game series against the best players he doesn't pick. If his team wins, Trump is peacefully impeached. Who do you think he picks? My guess:
First: LeBron
Second: Durant
Third: Leonard
Fourth: Curry (because being the best shooter ever never goes out of style)
Pure conjecture, but I'd bet Russ, amazing as he is, is pretty far down his list.
First: LeBron
Second: Durant
Third: Leonard
Fourth: Curry (because being the best shooter ever never goes out of style)
Pure conjecture, but I'd bet Russ, amazing as he is, is pretty far down his list.
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I am biased as Westbrook has long been my favorite player and I'd rather watch some of his misses than most people's makes, but to me he has pulled out in front down the stretch. OKC is awful without him contributing his standard superhuman effort, I don't think any other player has that much of a constant load. Harden has been amazing but is also lucky to have a perfect coach/system and personnel around him, Leonard is the best two-way player but again helped by Popovich, LBJ like Jordan could get it every year, Durant and Curry are amazing but teammates with each other and two other top 15-20 guys, to me it should be Westbrook.
No argument on either count. I think the other three are pretty much disqualified at this point:
- Harden is more efficient than Westbrook, but has had a significantly less positive overall impact on his team (a measly +1.5 net on-off per 100 possessions to +12.5 for Russ); his team is only 8 games better; and he and has team have both closed the season rather meekly. Plus (grey ink) he's like a zillion times less fun to watch.
- Kawhi's "two-way prowess" — this season alone — is undermined by the fact that his team has been MUCH better defensively (8 pts per 100 possessions) with him on the bench. He also has no notable statistical milestones; and while a fantastic player, he's not as fun to watch as Westbrook.
- LeBron's team can only be viewed now as a huge regular-season disappointment. That's a tough hurdle to clear when you're a four-time MVP and voters are going to look for reasons to disqualify you.
It's basically a one-man race at this point. Even the staid, analytical types (Zach Lowe, Nate Duncan, et al.) are fully on board.
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