2016 Tour de France

Time to Mo Vaughn

RIP Dernell
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
7,204
Not sure how many cycling fans we have on here, but the TdF kicks off today. Chris Froome is the defending champion as well as a heavy favorite (5/4) to win again. Can American Tejay Van Garderen compete for a podium spot this year? Will we see in or out of form Mark Cavendish?
 

Orange Julia

kittens kitttens kittens kittens
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
13,828
NatsTown!
I'm in. I haven't yet seen all of today's stage but it looks like Contador took out one of the American riders but both seem to be ok--I think that Katusha rider will abandon though.

On a "world so small" note--there's a SoSHer here in The Netherlands who somehow is connected to one of the riders who is thought to be a GC contender this year--Bauke Mollema who is riding for Trek. @Verryfunny2 will pop in and let us know!

Have both Schlecks retired?
 

StupendousMan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,910
Hi-ho. I'm a cycling fan and will be watching or following in some way each of the stages for the next three weeks.

The first stage was just what the race organizers probably expected when they put it so close to the coast: flat roads and strong sidewinds led to a break in the peloton. None of the favorites was caught behind, though. The peloton caught up to the break, as usual, with about 5 km to go. From that point, the sprinters' teams took over, and the final 500 m featured a nice race between Peter Sagan, Marcel Kittel and old friend Mark Cavendish, who waited to make his move and took first (and the yellow jersey).

Tomorrow's stage is mostly flat, but has a few small hills at the start and near the end, so it favors sprinters who can climb a bit, too. I'd put my money on Sagan.

One good way to follow the action is at Liveupdateguy's site:

http://liveupdateguy.com/

The frequent text updates include both expert commentary _and_ plenty of non-race-related blah-blah-blah for the interminable hours in the middle of long stages when nothing interesting is happening.

By the way, Frank Schleck is riding in the Tour this year, as part of the TREK - SEGAFREDO team. He finished with the main group and so is just 10 seconds out of the lead. My guess is that he'll spend most of his time carrying water bottles and providing support for Bauke Mollema, the leader of his team, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go for a stage win the mountains at some point.
 

RoDaddy

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 19, 2002
3,247
Albany area, NY
I've watched it for many years and will tune in again this year off and on, but it's never been the same since the Armstrong scandal. I watched him win so many thrilling finish line sprints through the years and was so inspired by the guy until he and others were caught. I wonder how many other people have been turned off by the sport since then including on this site. Froome has never been implicated as far as i know aside from suspicions about how he improved so much going back to his first Tour de France win
 

CSteinhardt

"Steiny"
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
3,201
Cambridge
Stupid question: usually in a bunch finish either they all end up with the same time or there's a split somewhere in the field and they're separated by a few seconds. And if there's a crash in the last few km, it gets ignored and they get the same time anyway. But today it looks like that didn't happen. Did the rules change?
 

StupendousMan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,910
Yes, there's a rule for flat stages with expected sprint finishes that, if a crash occurs within 3 km of the finish line, then everyone who was in the front bunch at that point will be given the same finishing time. That's what happened today ... EXCEPT for the time bonuses.

In some (but not all) races, the organizers give "bonus seconds", or "bonifications", to the first few riders to finish the stage. Today, for example, the winner was given 10 bonus seconds, the second place finisher 6 seconds, and the third place finisher 4 seconds.

These bonus seconds may only be given for some stages. In this year's Tour, I believe that they may not be given for some of the big mountain stages, for example.

Back in the OLD days, the bonus times could be more than a few seconds: minutes, or even hours. Back then, the separation between the first few riders at the end of the race could be many hours; these days, it is typically 1-5 minutes.
 

Orange Julia

kittens kitttens kittens kittens
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
13,828
NatsTown!
I think I heard somewhere (or read) that the points will be smaller in the beginning stages especially for KOM because too many riders were frontloading points and then there was no competition by the time they actually got into the mountains. I'll see if I can find where I read that.
 

StupendousMan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,910
The official rules at

http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2016/us/sporting-stakes-rules.html

state that the bonus seconds (10, 6, 4) will be awarded on all stages except individual and team time trials. This year, there are two individual time trials, in stages 13 and 18, and no team time trial.

There certainly have been lots and lots and lots of discussions and arguments over the years about these bonus seconds. The organizers tend to change the rules every few years, perhaps in response to perceived problems, as OJ says.
 

CSteinhardt

"Steiny"
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
3,201
Cambridge
There weren't just those gaps, though, but gaps the whole way through the field. So it wasn't just the bonus seconds...
 

Verryfunny2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
708
Leeuwarden
With the Sprinters teams going 70 kph gaps are inevitable. If the teams of Contador, Froome, Nibali get involved so they dont lose time things would get ugly fast. Giving everybody the same time on these kind of stages is common sense.

I know Bauke Mollema pretty well. Our kids play together, wifes are good friends. Really nice guy, down to earth. The amount of training cyclist do is ridiculous. Follow him on twitter to get a glimpse of that.

Hope he does well, could not happen to a nicer guy.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

RIP Dernell
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
7,204
Breakaway looking very good to win the stage today, especially since it's an uphill finish. 2:20 ahead of the peloton with just about 10k to go.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

RIP Dernell
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
7,204
Caught with 500m to go, but the polls polka dot jersey as a consolation prize to Stuyvan. Sagan gets the stage win and will also wear yellow.
 

Verryfunny2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
708
Leeuwarden
Great race to bad he got caught. The jump he made was textbook.

Mollema finished strong but got closed in and finished in the top 10.

Dutch have a strong young pack in Mollema, Kelderman, Dumoulin.
 

Orange Julia

kittens kitttens kittens kittens
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
13,828
NatsTown!
Peter Sagan's comments yesterday about no real leader and lack of respect is telling... On the pre race show they are biting their tongues to keep from mentioning the Patron, Lance Armstrong.
 

jimv

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 5, 2011
1,118
Can anyone recommend a link to watch stages on the same day but a few hours later (iow on the east coast after I get home from work)
 

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
Hoping for the 1st German win today. Keeping position in the leadup will be decisive - 50km to go.
-->Greipel will win today :banana::banana::banana:
 

Orange Julia

kittens kitttens kittens kittens
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
13,828
NatsTown!
Can anyone recommend a link to watch stages on the same day but a few hours later (iow on the east coast after I get home from work)
They do an evening show of the days stage, with commentary on NBC sports.
 

StupendousMan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,910
Well, tomorrow (Wednesday), Stage 5 introduces the hills, if perhaps not the really big mountains. There should be quite a lot of action in the second half of the stage, with some riders trying to push the peloton hard enough to knock the weaker riders off the pace. There's also a decent chance for the break to survive; at least, a better chance than there has been so far.

In today's stage, the sprinters' teams delivered them to the line, as expected, and there was a photo finish. Peter Sagan keeps his yellow jersey and takes over the lead in the sprinters' points competition, too.


profile.jpg
 

Orange Julia

kittens kitttens kittens kittens
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
13,828
NatsTown!
What do you think of all the whining the last two days about these very long stages which the riders say are "boring?"
 

Verryfunny2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
708
Leeuwarden
In my opinion today's stage proved why. 2 mass sprints or a great race with a succesful escape. The peloton getting pulled apart by Movistar and Sky. Same with stage 2. On the flat stage the outcome is assured. The sprinter teams are just too good. They hit 70 kph in the first stage, teams know when to start riding. In the olden days riders could stay ahead of the peloton, i feel thats not possible anymore. I understand dumolin when he states its boring. Why ride in front, knowing you will get caught?
 

pockmeister

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2006
372
London, England
The truly flat stages are indeed a poor spectacle for much of the day - and making them 200+km seems rather unnecessary in the first week. At least there's the chance to look at the French countryside. But they're a necessary evil - the excitement of the sprint finish is the part that makes the evening news, and that's what gets the required exposure for sponsors. And without sponsors...well, you know the rest. If there were no sprints, some of the big names wouldn't come - it's vital to have Cav, Kittel etc in the race from a PR perspective.

To be fair to the Tour, of the 6 stages so far, only 4 of them have been completely flat - stage 2 was a bumpy mini-classic that punched some holes into the GC, and stage 5 was a perfect breakaway opportunity that van Avermaet took brilliantly. And there's not another flat one until stage 11.

With the riders warmed up and into the race, it's time to hit the high mountains of the Pyrenees. Stage 7 should also suit a breakaway on the final climb (probably someone well down the GC), whilst stages 8 and 9 should really sort out the true GC contenders over the weekend. Sprinters teams will just be looking to hang on until next week. Lots of work for Sky and Movistar to do to position their guys. Froome v Quintana starts here.
 

Greg29fan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
20,487
NC
The 1 KM to go advertising thing ended up on the road right before the peloton got there. Never seen that before.
 

pockmeister

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2006
372
London, England
Yep, that's a new one on me too. Hopefully Yates is OK - he took the brunt of it. Assuming he's in one piece, it's as amusing as Orica getting their bus stuck under the finish line a couple of years back.



Fabulous win from Cummings today. That's becoming his specialism, and 4/7 stages have now gone to Brits riding for Dimension Data. The French are weeping into their (delicious) cheese, and focusing on the soccer instead. It's also now pretty clear that neither Nibali or Pinot are in any sort of shape to affect the GC. Tomorrow will be the first big GC showdown, with the main course to follow on Sunday
 

crystalline

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 12, 2009
5,771
JP
With the Sprinters teams going 70 kph gaps are inevitable. If the teams of Contador, Froome, Nibali get involved so they dont lose time things would get ugly fast. Giving everybody the same time on these kind of stages is common sense.

I know Bauke Mollema pretty well. Our kids play together, wifes are good friends. Really nice guy, down to earth. The amount of training cyclist do is ridiculous. Follow him on twitter to get a glimpse of that.

Hope he does well, could not happen to a nicer guy.
Can you explain Bauke's team status? Based on wikipedia, It looks like he raced in a few Grand Tours a few years ago, and then not much the past year or two. And now he's on Trek-Segafredo, although he's not listed on their Wikipedia roster. Has he been changing teams? Did Trek just pick him up for the TdF? What are his future team plans, and how do teams choose guys and pick guys like him to run for the GC title?
 

semsox

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 14, 2004
1,742
Charlottesville
Can't believe the chase group just let Froome do that at the crest of the mountain. No organization, no chance to catch him
 

StupendousMan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,910
I think that one of the reasons that Froome was able to create a gap when going over the final climb of the day was a clever bit of strategy earlier in the stage. When the main group was going over the penultimate climb, and Rafael Majka started to speed up to go over the peak first so he could grab points in the mountain competition, Froome saw him and sped up himself -- just enough to beat Majka. As they coasted a bit down afterwards, I saw Majka talking to Froome, who gave a shrug of the shoulders as if to say "Hey, I might want the King of the Mountains jersey, too."

So, by making that move, Froome showed others that he was interested in getting mountain points.

Then, on the FINAL climb of the day, when he again broke from the pack at the top, some of the riders might have thought "Oh, he's just looking for a few more mountain points," rather than "Look out -- Froome is trying to establish a gap and really escape."

Today's stage is one of the pointiest of the Tour. Contador abandoned early -- he tried to mount an early attack, but his body just wouldn't respond (apparently, he has a fever). Sagan managed to get into the break and stay with it over three big climbs, long enough to win 20 sprint points at the intermediate sprint. Chapeau!

The big question of the day is -- will Nairo Quintana make an attack on the final HC climb of the day? Stay tuned ...
 

StupendousMan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,910
And the answer is -- no, Nairo Quintana will not make an attack on the final climb. He was glued to Froome's wheel all the way up the mountain, as part of the main favorites' group. Just about every other member of the group made one or two small attacks, to which Froome always responded ... but not Quintana.

In his defense, the weather was really awful today: sunny with temperatures over 100 F in the valley for 4 hours, then rain on the final climb, turning to hail at the very end. Perhaps it was a good day to concentrate on surviving and losing no time. There are still two weeks of racing to go.
 

semsox

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 14, 2004
1,742
Charlottesville
And the answer is -- no, Nairo Quintana will not make an attack on the final climb. He was glued to Froome's wheel all the way up the mountain, as part of the main favorites' group. Just about every other member of the group made one or two small attacks, to which Froome always responded ... but not Quintana.

In his defense, the weather was really awful today: sunny with temperatures over 100 F in the valley for 4 hours, then rain on the final climb, turning to hail at the very end. Perhaps it was a good day to concentrate on surviving and losing no time. There are still two weeks of racing to go.
I was also a bit disappointed that Quintana never attacked, but I think the weather probably did play a role. Even with two weeks of racing left, it sure is hard to see how anyone is going to beat Froome. Sky are so good and disciplined, that I don't know when or how anyone can make a real run at him. There was actually probably more of an opening today than there will be most stages, since Froome himself launched the attack about 5 or 6 km out to, separating him from the rest of his team. If anyone in the group could have launched a successful attack after that point, he wouldn't have had the support anymore to help reel it back in.
 

Verryfunny2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
708
Leeuwarden
Can you explain Bauke's team status? Based on wikipedia, It looks like he raced in a few Grand Tours a few years ago, and then not much the past year or two. And now he's on Trek-Segafredo, although he's not listed on their Wikipedia roster. Has he been changing teams? Did Trek just pick him up for the TdF? What are his future team plans, and how do teams choose guys and pick guys like him to run for the GC title?
This is Bauke's second season with trek. He rode for the dutch Rabobank/lotto jumbo for a number of years.

Think the wiki is off. He finished top 10 last 3 years.

2013 6th place, 2014 10th place, 2015 7th place.

Trek picked him up to be a threat in any gc. Tdf being the most important.

He is young only 30 and still getting stronger every season. This year the focus has been on the tdf. Last year he was alone in the mountain stages. Now the team is more build around him and it shows.

The signing of the replacement of Cancellara will be important, will they sign a veteran Climber to give Bauke more support or another timertrail specialist/winner of one days.

Not sure its an exact science. Except for Sky which uses exact science [emoji6]. Im not sure, ill ask him when i talk to him. Im curious about the proces myself.

What i heard was that there is a signing period in August, people who are free agents can be signed.

The attack he placed on the climb was great and the first time i ever saw him do that in the tdf. He lost some time but is 7th in the standings. But it shows his strength.
 

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
:) Lovely. It had to happen eventually. I mean, probably they do something again vs. this crap (stop the time at the 3km mark), but this is ridiculous. Biggest bike race in the world, years of training and such a shame. Wow.
 

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
It´s only good for action and tension. (And of course for future security, but after past events/Guerini, seemlingly nothing changed.)
You can only laugh at Froome jogging.
When you saw how Sky and Froome dominated the other Top10 riders, this makes it exciting. He has to make a move and go for it. He always looks like he has trouble. Quintana attacked, Sky held him back, then Froome went off and Quintana fell back, with only Porte following and Mollema climbing back into their heels (luckily).

And be honest, it´s not the first bullshit event, the crashing down of the red flag a few days ago was also ridiculous. I mean, that´s as grotesque as the goal crashing back in the days in the CL match at Madrid. But with multiple such events, it´s now at the level of twice crashing down per half...:)

Who is the winner? The fan. You have no idea, what will happen now. Maybe Froome will get back, maybe someone can sit on him, but if they don´t gift him a minute or smth today, he will definitely have to fight back. And this is way more interesting than it looked 500m before the end of this stage.
 

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
Can someone explain what just happened.
Porte led a group of 3, a bike with a cam had to break hard, he crashed into it. Then Froome fell over him. Mollema could stop(?). Then Mollema could restart after a huge pile erupted. Froome started to run, as his bike was broken somehow. Porte could also restart, but not as fast as Mollema, who found his pace as the winner of that group (finished 10th, I think). Porte was overtaken by the next group (including many of the Top15 guys), Froome was jogging, jogging, then got a yellow bike from the yellow car for the Tour leader. It had no special pedals for his shoes, etc. He really had trouble to finish the stage (was just a few 100m, if I remember correct!).
Behind that crap, it was a good day for Belgians (1-2, 8) and Netherlands (4, 6, 10).

Yellow shirt for Adam Yates. Nobody knows what will happen and if they will give a time bonus to Froome (never happened before).
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,297
AZ
I think you have to try to place the GC times as they were at the time of the crash, as best you can.

What I don't know is whether there is a sanction for running without the bike. If the rules are specific, he should be punished based on whatever the rules require. If they have discretion, they should use it.
 

Orange Julia

kittens kitttens kittens kittens
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
13,828
NatsTown!
Holy crap that was the craziest stage end I've seen in the 16 years of watching the Tour.

Amazing that he actually gained time on Yates, in the end.
 

Orange Julia

kittens kitttens kittens kittens
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
13,828
NatsTown!
Porte led a group of 3, a bike with a cam had to break hard, he crashed into it. Then Froome fell over him. Mollema could stop(?). Then Mollema could restart after a huge pile erupted. Froome started to run, as his bike was broken somehow. Porte could also restart, but not as fast as Mollema, who found his pace as the winner of that group (finished 10th, I think). Porte was overtaken by the next group (including many of the Top15 guys), Froome was jogging, jogging, then got a yellow bike from the yellow car for the Tour leader. It had no special pedals for his shoes, etc. He really had trouble to finish the stage (was just a few 100m, if I remember correct!).
Behind that crap, it was a good day for Belgians (1-2, 8) and Netherlands (4, 6, 10).

Yellow shirt for Adam Yates. Nobody knows what will happen and if they will give a time bonus to Froome (never happened before).
Actually, he got a generic bike first from a Neutral Car but it wasn't fitted properly so after a few meters he realized he had to wait for the team car to come up and give him one of his spare bikes.
 

Verryfunny2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
708
Leeuwarden
My boy got screwed over by the jury.

Protest pending though. Froome should be disqualified. You're not allowed to run.

Giving quitana the same time as Mollema makes no sense.

Looks like the guy with the heads up play is the only one who gets punished [emoji35].

The jump Mollema made to Froome and porte was great stuff. Real threat for the podium this year.

Insane conditions with all the motors and the crowd. Massive fail of the organisation.
 

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
Was all of this because the finish line was shortened/lowered by a few km because of the bad weather at the top of the Ventoux and then there basically were not enough rails at that level? The street looked small (especially in the tight curves), but probably big enough to place some rails on both sides and the fans behind it.
 

Orange Julia

kittens kitttens kittens kittens
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
13,828
NatsTown!
That was a big part of it. They shortened the stage by 6km and had to put all those people (on Bastille Day, in France) in a much smaller space along the road. Jerks along the side of the road have been a problem for a very long time.
 

Greg29fan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
20,487
NC
I agree with giving Froome the same time as Mollema in the end, but there should have been a time penalty regardless for running up the hill w/o a bike. That's a black and white call, and even if the accident was caused by something totally out of his control, you have to take the broken bike w/you.

Really the big loser was probably Porte who had great legs and was probably going to attack again hard in the final 1K and needs to gain back time.
 
Last edited:

Orange Julia

kittens kitttens kittens kittens
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
13,828
NatsTown!
Bauke had a great time trial yesterday and it is nice to see him in second (as of this morning--I'm watching today's stage on the DVR right now) And I agree--there should have been some kind of ping for Froome running without a bike. Did Yates get any kind of similar time deal when the 2km banner came down as he was just about to go under it?