2017 Australian Open

bosoxsue

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Fed is 13-0 against him on hard courts. Ouch. We're Team Stan here, in the minority of course, and encouraged that he seems to be playing better as he goes deeper into this tournament. Should be a fun match.
 

BigMike

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Have to love her wiki entry

Mirjana Lučić-Baroni (née Lučić; born 9 March 1982[1]) is a Croatian tennis player. She enjoyed a promising career on the WTA Tour in the late 1990s, during which she set several "youngest-ever" records, won the Grand Slam women's doubles title at the Australian Open in 1998 when she was only 15 years old, partnered with Martina Hingis; won the first ever professional tournament she entered, the 1997 Croatian Bol Ladies Open, and defended it the following year at age 16, making her the youngest player in history to successfully defend a title.[2] She reached the semifinals of Wimbledon in 1999, beating World No. 4 Monica Seles en route.[1] Following a series of personal problems from 2000 onwards, she faded from the scene.
Her being here is amazing. It also points back to the AMazingness of the Williams sisters. Most of their contemporaries retired 9-13 years ago, many made brief comebacks.
 

jon abbey

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But again, as amazing as the Williams sisters are, especially Serena, the women's game being historically awful for years now has really helped Serena pile up the majors. I am a huge Serena (and Venus) fan and have rooted for both for their entire careers, but I thought this recent quote from Serena was absolutely absurd:

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On being the greatest athlete of all time: “I think if I were a man, I would have been in that conversation a long time ago. Like six, seven years ago”

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I don't even understand it really. If she was a male tennis player with 22 Grand Slams? Well, yeah, duh, but she wouldn't be because while the women's game has been historically awful recently, the men's game is as good as it's ever been at the top, with Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and even Wawrinka now. Who has Serena's main rival been since Justine Henin retired in 2011? She should really STFU and be happy that no genuine challengers have emerged for more than a tournament or two.
 

InstaFace

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Well, that's a bit of a chicken-and-egg issue, isn't it? If there were someone Serena consistently lost to, or at least lost to a surprising fraction of the time, it would be framed as a knock against her because "well, she can't really beat ___, that's her kryptonite". If Roger Federer isn't your favorite male player, the first thing you'd say about him is "well sure, but he could never beat Nadal in Paris". For Serena, for a bit that was Kuznetsova, or Azarenka, or Clijsters out of retirement. Kerber, last year. Yet none of them have lasted. Isn't Serena more impressive for having maintained her consistency for so long? Isn't it better that she just beats everyone?

Suppose there were some other players out there who could have easily beaten top players from earlier in Serena's career - but, having further perfected her craft, Serena simply beats them all. How would we separate their underlying skill from Serena's?

Now, speaking of Serena, she is currently warming up on Rod Laver for her QF vs Konta. I'd encourage you to watch - Konta is at her peak form and could make a real game of it.

But suppose she doesn't. That would leave the 4 semifinalists for this major championship at:

Venus Williams, 36
Serena Williams, 35
Mirjana Lucic-Baroni, 34 (just beat world #5 Pliskova with some incredibly ballsy hitting)
Coco Vandeweghe, 25

So much for it being a sport that worships youth.
 

InstaFace

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You remember last year when the WADA database of testing was hacked and the records showed that since 1999, the Williams sisters had tested positive for neither jack nor shit, right?

I hate when people cry PEDs anytime they're presented with an image of greatness.

Meanwhile, after some initial pressure (and a break point, when Serena couldn't land a first serve for love or money), Konta absolutely folded in the first set. But now in the second set, she starts with a tough hold, and then breaks Serena. Currently serving up 3-2. We have an actual match.
 

jon abbey

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I feel like we have this discussion every major now, but I don't think anyone would question Serena's being in the top 3 or 5 female players of all time. Personally I think Navratilova (who I rooted against her whole career) is pretty much impossible to topple (longevity and doubles being the tiebreakers), with Graf and Serena being roughly tied for #2. Navratilova had Evert and Graf to deal with, Graf had Navratilova and Seles to deal with. Serena is playing the #9 seed now, who is in her second career Grand Slam quarterfinal, and this is the highest seed she'll face all tournament.
 

InstaFace

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If you really weight Navratilova's doubles work heavily, then yes, it's basically impossible to topple her. But that is also partially due to the much deeper pool of talent in today's game. 538's work with long-term tennis Elo ratings suggests that pretty strongly.

A few months ago I went back and watched one of the famous (pre-stabbing) Graf-vs-Seles matches, the 1993 AO Final. I expected to see a very familiar-looking match. However, even with mostly-modern racquet technology, good god was that a totally different spectacle than we see today.

- Serves were mere rally balls. Graf could occasionally hit upper 90s.
- Pace on balls was good but far from impressive by today's standards
- Footwork, while not bad, was occasionally sloppy, and neither of them would have elite speed on today's tour
- Few errors, but they almost never went for the edges and corners, most balls were very safe
- Net play was not very daring, though passing shots were more reliable

With a similar level of development in their tactics, I think both would struggle to make the top 20 were they in their prime today, nevermind threaten Serena. The "depth of tour" argument really holds a lot of water for me. Graf helped propel Women's Tennis to a new level of respect and following, but the current talent at the top of the women's tour is at unprecedented heights imho.

Anyway, hope some of you guys are night owls who have a chance to see Nadal-Raonic live. I may fire that up on replay in the morning during some conference calls, it's probably going to be a real good one.
 

Infield Infidel

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It's interesting to think how good Venus would be if Serena wasn't around. Venus has 7 grand slam titles, and has only lost once in a final to someone not named Serena (Hingis in 98 US). She's lost to Serena in 6 finals, 1 semi and 1 QF and 1 4th rd. So without Serena around she'd have 13 slams at least.
 

jon abbey

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Dimitrov rolls over Goffin into the semis and is now hoping for a five hour five setter between Nadal and Raonic.
 

Apisith

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You remember last year when the WADA database of testing was hacked and the records showed that since 1999, the Williams sisters had tested positive for neither jack nor shit, right?

I hate when people cry PEDs anytime they're presented with an image of greatness.

Meanwhile, after some initial pressure (and a break point, when Serena couldn't land a first serve for love or money), Konta absolutely folded in the first set. But now in the second set, she starts with a tough hold, and then breaks Serena. Currently serving up 3-2. We have an actual match.
It's the lack of testing in tennis that is obvious to anyone who pays attention to this stuff. Tennis is continually mentioned as having one of the least rigorous testing regime of any major sport, with holes in implementation and execution. I'm 100% certain that there are major dopers in tennis because the players benefit from the same set of drugs as cyclists and other sports do. The lack of positive test results actually show the failure of the regime since it's such an anomaly compared to other sports.

If the testing regime were exceptionally strict then a lack of positive results could be seen as a successful drug testing program that has produced a clean sport, but the lack of positive results in tennis actually shows the failure of the drug testing program and how the authorities turn a blind eye to this stuff. Even the head of testing rolls out regular excuses for tennis' lack of transparency.

I'm not referring to only the Williams' sister although Serena not having an out of competition test for two straight years just boggles the mind. All the top players are not tested often enough. The testing regime is a complete joke. They used cheap tests for many years and have zero transparency when testing, which is why players like Cilic become 'injured' when they test positive rather than it being open and transparent. There have been many rumours of long 'injuries' which were due to positive tests.
 

SumnerH

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It's interesting to think how good Venus would be if Serena wasn't around. Venus has 7 grand slam titles, and has only lost once in a final to someone not named Serena (Hingis in 98 US). She's lost to Serena in 6 finals, 1 semi and 1 QF and 1 4th rd. So without Serena around she'd have 13 slams at least.
I'd love to see an alternate world where Hingis (and to a lesser degree Davenport) remained healthy another few years just to see how the matchups worked; Hingis beat the Williamses several times, but it was just before they entered their prime. Prime Hingis was crafty as hell, and her incredible returns matched up well against a key Williams strength. Her serve was pretty suspect, though. It'd be a fun pairing to see.
 

jsinger121

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Pretty unbelievable that Mirjana Lučić-Baroni made the semi finals at age 34. Her only other semi final appearance in a major was at the 1999 Wimbledon when I wasn't even a senior a high school yet. Coming into this tournament she had only 1 win in the Aussie in her career. This is one of the biggest shocking semi final appearances in a long time.
 

Infield Infidel

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Weird play (or I guess non-play) in the Venus-Coco match, 5-5 30-all Venus serving, during play the umpire said the linesman made a errant noise. Neither player seemed to hear it, and it wasn't clear if either were ahead in the point.

Anyway, Venus got a service winner and a ace to make it 6-5
 

Infield Infidel

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Vandeweghe wins the first set in a tie-break. Minibreaks on the first 5 points, but then she pulled away 7-3. Commentators on the Aussie Brit feed saying Venus is placing her second serve is too predictably and Coco got a couple return winners on it during the tie-break.
 
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Infield Infidel

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Venus gets a breaks at love for 2-1. Coco threw her racket about 10 feet. Commentators saying she sometimes has dips here and there, and that she told her racket sponsor that she would break so many.
 

Infield Infidel

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What a 6th game, Venus comes back from 0-40, then after a few deuces goes Ace-Double Fault-Ace, and then they paint the lines on the final point till Coco hits it out. 5-1 Venus

Venus is 3-3 on break point, Coco is 1-10
 

Infield Infidel

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Venus holds serve after two more break points. Coco is 1-13. Venus even had a real ugly stretch faulting way off 3 consecutive times. This is like Twilight Zone or Twin Peaks or something.
 

jon abbey

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Venus wins the third set 6-4, not sure I have ever seen her this happy.
 

Infield Infidel

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I think Venus would make a great Fed Cup captain if she's so inclined after she retires. She's got great perspective and never gets frazzled.

I hadn't remembered until I looked it up that she's never won an Australian Open.
 
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jon abbey

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Whoa, Fed/Stan is tonight, not tomorrow, so in just a few hours.
 

semsox

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I thought and would have been ok with this Wawrinka match being the end of the line for Fed this tournament, but damn if he's not exceeding expectations.
 

Apisith

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It's such a shame that he's going to end up playing and losing to Nadal after all this effort. What a huge surprise for him and he ends up playing the one guy who'll beat him regardless.
 

tbrep

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I don't know about that. He still has to close this match out and he's down 1-4 in the 3rd set. Nadal also has to get through Dimitrov and though that's probable, definitely not a given
 

jsinger121

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Another break chance for Stan turns in a huge Federer hold. Roger up 3-2 in the 5th.
 

jsinger121

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6th Australian open final. 28th major final for Federer. Seeking first major since the 2012 Wimbledon and only the third since 2010. Would love to see him and Nadal go at it again one more time in a final for old time sake.
 

bosoxsue

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I'm the one person here who is disappointed, but it was an amazing match. Now I just hope Rafa comes through to set up the final.
 

Ed Hillel

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Holy shit, I just realized Venus made the final, too. If Nadal wins his semi, this would be the most remarkable tournament ever.
 

BigMike

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Great for Fed, really awesome to see him pull this out.

I hate ESPN. I set up the record on one TV 2 days ago, when it was still scheduled for ESPN2. So that didn't record. I set up the recording for ESPN last night on a different TV< and didn't realize they not only switched channels but made it a very short recording window. So I didn't get the 5th set