2017 Cowboys: NoMo' Romo (or playoffs)

Bosoxen

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There is no doubt in my mind Zeke will be suspended at some point this season. But God damn if the NFL hasn't created itself an awful feedback loop. Doling out suspensions based on bad precedent is really fucking stupid.
 

Average Reds

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There's just too much baggage mounting for a player who's basically nothing more than roster fodder. Bummer for him to be made an example of but at least we see there actually is a line with this team.
"Due process is for stars" is more of a governing philosophy than a "line."
 

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That the owners believe that they can influence the disciplinary process is arguably prima facie evidence that the process is bullshit--and, for that matter, not in alignment with the law.
 

InstaFace

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It might rekindle the Depression phase for some, but I think pretty much everybody is past Denial, Anger and Bargaining, and most are on to Cincinnati Acceptance.
 

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It might rekindle the Depression phase for some, but I think pretty much everybody is past Denial, Anger and Bargaining, and most are on to Cincinnati Acceptance.
I enjoyed this. Thank you.
 

Greg29fan

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Really ready for the season now that you guys dragged Deflategate into the Cowboys thread for some reason.
 

LondonSox

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Seemed as good a place as anywhere now the stories are of Zeke destroying evidence into a long running investigation

Plus I've been quiet this off-season
 

Bosoxen

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In case anyone, like me, was in the dark about what London is referring to:

(The specific allegation is that Elliott committed five acts of domestic violence in a six-day window.)

{Cris} Carter described the situation as a case of “assault or domestic violence,” and Carter hinted that “when the information comes out there’s going to be some similarities” to Tom Brady’s suspension, including “information that he had been advised possibly to give up, that was destroyed.”
https://sports.yahoo.com/league-office-apparently-leaks-details-155701616.html

Unless Elliott had video of himself smacking this woman around, I'm not sure I can come up with what possible evidence could have been destroyed.
 

Bosoxen

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My first thought is that he destroyed his personal cell phone.
Right, which would have potentially had incriminating videos or photos on it. Text messages? I'm not sure what that would prove but those could be obtained in other ways.
 

Ralphwiggum

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But as we saw in the Brady case, it doesn't matter what was on the phone. The mere fact that he destroyed it was one of the factors cited by the league in doling out Brady's discipline.
 

Bosoxen

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But as we saw in the Brady case, it doesn't matter what was on the phone. The mere fact that he destroyed it was one of the factors cited by the league in doling out Brady's discipline.
And we're back around to my initial point about this whole thing:

Doling out suspensions based on bad precedent is really fucking stupid.
 

Marciano490

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Right, which would have potentially had incriminating videos or photos on it. Text messages? I'm not sure what that would prove but those could be obtained in other ways.
Text messages could certainly be incriminating, and if it's just the NFL investigating, how would they get them in other ways? They don't have subpoena power....yet.
 

Bosoxen

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Text messages could certainly be incriminating, and if it's just the NFL investigating, how would they get them in other ways? They don't have subpoena power....yet.
Ah, but now we're getting into the subject of overreach. If they don't have subpoena power, then maybe they shouldn't be in the investigative business. But that's a topic for another thread.

Ok, fine, maybe the text messages contain some pertinent information. They could ask the person on the other end of the conversation. If that person won't cooperate, they've just hit the same road block the actual authorities run into. And the NFL circle jerk continues in perpetuity.
 

Marciano490

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More to the point, unless there's a way to revive a deleted thread, I don't get why someone would destroy their cellphone instead of just wiping their messages and cloud.
 

Bosoxen

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More to the point, unless there's a way to revive a deleted thread, I don't get why someone would destroy their cellphone instead of just wiping their messages and cloud.
If all of this is true - it's all hearsay at this point though - it's possible that's what was done. We have no hard evidence either way but "destroyed evidence" could just as easily mean "deleted text conversations" as "smashed phone to pieces".

Anyway, I wish they'd just suspend him already. There's no way they're not going to, regardless of evidence or lack thereof, so they might as well just get this shit over with so McFadden, Morris and Hillman can get their reps in practice.
 

LondonSox

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The time this is taking is ridiculous.
Just make a decision I couldn't agree more.

Any word on the injury yesterday dude?

When I have some time I'll bump or makea new eagles thread and do a rundown. Rather than just pop up in yours, promise.
 

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What do we bet that there will be some sort of declaration that while there was insufficient evidence in any specific incident, the fact that there are multiple incidents raised makes it seem more probable than not (or some similarly vague rationale for a general belief without real evidence) that he did something, so here's the suspension?

Which would be completely inappropriate as that punishment based on a general feeling of guilt is unacceptable. But then again, I still can't figure out why the owners putting pressure on the disciplinary system is at all acceptable; I rather wonder if the NFLPA is looking into whether or not that might make the system illegal insofar as that's evidence the decisions are not based on application of their own internal standards but upon the whims of assholes.
 

InstaFace

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Not to go farther down the rabbit-hole, but I'm pretty sure the 2nd circuit declared precisely that the system could be based on the whims of assholes. One particular asshole, in fact.

If the NFLPA wants to prioritize a change to that arrangement next CBA, I'll be cheering them on, but until then, the half-hearted Ballghazi jokes about Zeke Elliott are not funny for that very reason - they're not really jokes.
 

Reverend

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Not to go farther down the rabbit-hole, but I'm pretty sure the 2nd circuit declared precisely that the system could be based on the whims of assholes. One particular asshole, in fact.

If the NFLPA wants to prioritize a change to that arrangement next CBA, I'll be cheering them on, but until then, the half-hearted Ballghazi jokes about Zeke Elliott are not funny for that very reason - they're not really jokes.
I think they said that the NFLPA agreed to the commissioner being sorta whimsical, which I think sucks for reasons beyond the Patriots, but yeah, you're right.

I think this is different because the whimsy isn't actually satisfied in any single case. You can't say that 30% likelihood in three different cases add up to 90% likelihood of guilt, which is what I'm thinking the league might do. Like, I could be off, but my reading of the tea leaves is they're hopinh to try to effectively say that the fact of multiple accusations/allegations should be itself allowed as evidence which goes against some pretty fundamental jurisprudential values.
 

Bosoxen

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Any word on the injury yesterday dude?
You talking about Tyrone Crawford? If so, the company line for now is that he'll be ready for the season opener. Looks pretty gnarly though:

 

edmunddantes

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Took me a second to realize that was his foot in the white sneaker and it wasn't someone's shoe that been pulled off.

Ouch!
 

bakahump

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Somehow I figure this will blow over.

JJ just seems like a bigger blustering dink then RK. I just envision him showing Roger Pictures of Goodell with hookers and coke or reminding him of some text he sent Jerry using the N word. Something with leverage. And that JJ isnt afraid to use it.
Basically Bob Kraft was "too nice" and Jerry Jones knows how to play the power game. In short JJ SEEMS slimy enough to ensure his franchise back will play somehow and no matter what.
 

dcmissle

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What do we bet that there will be some sort of declaration that while there was insufficient evidence in any specific incident, the fact that there are multiple incidents raised makes it seem more probable than not (or some similarly vague rationale for a general belief without real evidence) that he did something, so here's the suspension?

Which would be completely inappropriate as that punishment based on a general feeling of guilt is unacceptable. But then again, I still can't figure out why the owners putting pressure on the disciplinary system is at all acceptable; I rather wonder if the NFLPA is looking into whether or not that might make the system illegal insofar as that's evidence the decisions are not based on application of their own internal standards but upon the whims of assholes.
Why not? There is no legal obstacle to this under that beloved Constitution and whatever else owners' agreement may exist.

Actually, there is, at least theoretically. But Bob Kraft did not have the appetite, and Jurrah' won't either, especially now that Joe Jamail is dead. An antitrust lawsuit. Harm to competition, you ask? You bet, at least enough to survive a motion to dismiss, with the Maras at least rather clearly steering Roger into this and that. In the Cowboys case, this would be the second time, as it's plainly the case that Mara engineered the hit on the Cowboys and Redskins over the uncapped year. God I wish just one of these guys had the backbone of vintage Al Davis.
 

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My understanding was that the court's decision said that the NFLPA is bound to whatever rules they contracted to the league with.

But the league still articulates some standards, even if they are bs. If you could show that the commissioner deviates even from his own bs nebulous whimsical rules under pressure from owners, wouldn't that put them in violation of their own internal standards?

I guess what I mean is, I feel like the courts validated the league's right to have really vague shitty standards. I feel like what I think they want to do with Ezekiel violates even those. Which is sorta amazing.
 

soxfan121

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God I wish just one of these guys had the backbone of vintage Al Davis.
Isn't that the real point, though? Al Davis lost and when he did, these issues were settled for all time. The owners are a cartel and they are going to enforce or make up any bylaws that favor them while simultaneously fucking over the players as much as they can get away with.

The internecine battles of Mara vs. Jones, or All Pissy Dudes v. Kraft are the sort of political exercises that happen within their own fiefdoms to see who gets to sit near the head of the table. There's never going to be another owner who speaks against the family ever again. There's too much money at stake. If Zeke gets suspended, Jerry will squawk a little bit but he's not going to make a federal case out of it. He didn't make a federal case out of that ridiculous penalty for spending money in the uncapped year.

The NFL supporting the Raiders move to Las Vegas is their final, beyond-the-grave fuck you to Al. God, I miss him.
 

dcmissle

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Al was 1-1 against the League in antitrust cases. He won in 1983, lost in 2001. Both cases, however, made it to the jury, and that's the important point here -- "Mr. Mara, you have a choice. You can testify truthfully and acknowledge your use of Goodell as a hammer against other teams. Or you can commit perjury. What's it going to be?" You'd never get away with that question, but it reflects the threat.

To be clear, it won't happen. Jerry, after all, quite recently defended Goodell's abuse of the Pats. So I won't feel badly for him but will feel badly for the Dallas fans and the Dallas players. This has Mara's fingerprints all over it.

(If Romo rather than Eli were in the memorabilia fraud mess, the imagination would be the limit. Actually, there would be no limit.)

Never forget -- when Judge Berman tried to force a settlement of DFG, who did he call in to represent the League? Mara. There's the throne, and the power, and Berman quickly grasped there are not united in the same person here.
 
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pappymojo

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To be fair, in Brady's case, the National Football League Management Council was the plaintiff. Mara is the chairman of the NFL Management Council.
 

dcmissle

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The trial balloon is 6 games max, with a reduction to 4.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/11/six-games-for-ezekiel-elliott/

Bob: "See? That's what I was complaining about."

Jerry: "It's apples and oranges, Bob. You guys won too goddamn much. We're lucky to win a playoff game. And the puppet master is in my division."

Bob: "It's the principle, Jerry, the principle. You curried favor with the puppet; the master is cutting your balls off."
 

BigJimEd

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Except Jerry basically threw Bob's own words back at him from the cap penalties.

Go back to beginning of the psi drama ad the conversation might have been reversed.

Jerry : "See? That's what I was complaining about."

Bob: "That was different. It didn't involve my team and there was money involved. We need to keep player's salary low"

Jerry: "It's the principle, Bob, the principle. You curried favor with the puppet; the master is cutting your balls off."
 

dcmissle

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Nicely done.

Hopefully both have learned the obvious lesson.
 

Ed Hillel

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He'll appeal the ruling and probably will play the season until it's heard, right? Or will it be expedited?
Can it be reduced, or is this a full six or zero thing? The evidence to me suggests he probably did assault his girlfriend, so if everyone is being consistent with the Ray Rice fallout, this probably is the right call. I'm just not sure what an appeal looks like or how it plays out.
 

Greg29fan

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Yep. Serial abusers of women should probably get more than a 6 game vacation.
If this is the new standard then great, but Josh Brown beat his wife 20 times according to her and got one game. Oh yeah, he played for the Maras.
 

pappymojo

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Goodell hasn't been involved with this investigation at all, presumably so he can act as arbitrator with less drama than the Brady appeal. Still slight of hand bullshit.
 

nattysez

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If this is the new standard then great, but Josh Brown beat his wife 20 times according to her and got one game. Oh yeah, he played for the Maras.
I think this is a response to what happened with Josh Brown and the subsequent criticism. Or it's because Elliott is black. I strongly suspect it's the former, but would never rule out the latter.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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Jerry is between a rock and hard place. His team isn't getting punished like Kraft/Pats did with with #gate. Players union reps players on this, so all he can do is scream and try to strongarm Rog.
 

Ed Hillel

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If this is the new standard then great, but Josh Brown beat his wife 20 times according to her and got one game. Oh yeah, he played for the Maras.
Yes, this was the utmost bullshit. I think Zeke deserves the six, but Brown should have gotten six minimum. The only thing Goodell is consistent with is his inconsistency.
 

dcmissle

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Yes, this was the utmost bullshit. I think Zeke deserves the six, but Brown should have gotten six minimum. The only thing Goodell is consistent with is his inconsistency.
Oh he's consistent. Mara rules.

The QB is alleged to have defrauded fans. Actual fraud if true.

Crickets.