2017 Golf Thread

I'm going to be in Edinburgh Aug 4 - 11. I'll be with a bunch of family, including a sort-of brother in law who is willing to play a round of golf with me. I'm not into bucket list golf and don't need to play the Old Course. I would however like a memorable round. I suggested North Berwick, but they seem to be uninterested in booking a twosome. My B-i-L (who lives in London) has booked a tee time at Prestonfield. Is that a mistake? Can I do better within 45 minutes of Edinburgh? If so, where?
Prestonfield is...not a good golf course. Almost any other course within 45 minutes of Edinburgh would be better. Assuming you have a rental car and can leave the city easily enough, you should definitely head toward the linksland to the east - if you can't get on North Berwick or Muirfield, play one of the Gullane courses or Dunbar, or even the nine-hole Musselburgh Old Links (one of the earliest Open Championship venues) in and around the current horse racecourse. Or go north across the Firth of Forth to Lundin Links, which is probably the nearest good links course in Fife.
 
What he meant - similar to my initial question - was what makes the U.K. System so much better? Conigliaro presented it was more accurate because 'only tournament rounds' are carded and used. So, like Hoya, this season I'm not a member anywhere and life has gotten in the way a bit, so I've only got about three rounds in, non tournament. How would I carry a cap in that scenario?

Conig's follow up only furthers my question as to why it's more reliable? If you in fact can submit non tournament scores, how is it any different other than the sample size? It's great that you need someone to sign, but how hard is that if you want to sandbag? How is it not still self reporting? Is there a rules official following every foursome? Cause if not, even if you physically turn your card in to someone at the end of your round for them to report it, it doesn't strike me as any more or less reliable.
The work-around solution I've presented for very occasional golfers is very rarely used, and I think there's a limit to the number of rounds you can self-report per year anyway. Yes, you could find a willing accomplice and sandbag your way to whatever handicap you want if you're really intent on a life of golfing crime, but it simply isn't the done thing. Because there's a culture of competition at most clubs here, golfers get used to playing by the rules (as best they understand them) and playing in at least three 18-hole competitions per year to keep their handicaps active. In the US, that culture doesn't exist, and golfers use mulligans or fail to observe the stroke-and-distance lost ball penalty (etc.) all the time. Or you'll be playing a nassau in which your opponent might concede you a putt and you never actually get the ball into the hole - and yet you still write a score on your card and submit that toward your handicap. Or you'll be playing alone some evening and hit some practice shots in addition to the ball you're ostensibly counting for your score. All of this fine for what it is - golf is meant to be enjoyed however you want to enjoy it - but it's a joke in terms of creating a level playing field for the purposes of identifying and maintaining accurate handicaps.

I also think a system in which your handicap can only go up by 0.1 per round at most is more reliable in preventing negative sandbagging than the "best 10 scores of your last 20" American system, where as I've described a relative handful of bad rounds can send your handicap shooting up by 10-15 shots if not more. I suppose you could cheat to push your UK handicap downward relatively easily, but vanity notwithstanding, the only reason you would generally want to positively sandbag your handicap is to meet the entry requirements of a tournament with a handicap limit - and if you're not a member of a club, generally you won't be able to enter such tournaments anyway.
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
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Has anyone played St. Andrews? The one in westchester county, not the Open course. Supposedly nice but I didn't even know it existed until this week. Oldest course in us I think.

Any info would be helpful. Thx
 

TFP

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@ConigliarosPotential - I know I haven't really replied but I love the updates and pictures of the golf over there. Keep them coming.

On another note, has anyone used GolfGameBook to track scores/live leaderboards for a golf competition? Our annual 16 man Ryder Cup is coming up in a month and we want to use an app to do it rather than printing out custom scorecards and collecting after, etc. This looks like exactly what we need and even provides Ryder Cup Red/Blue live scoreboards, but just wondering if anyone had any hands on experience with it.
 

HoyaSoxa

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First, I will agree that I love hearing more about Conig's golf adventures in Scotland, even through my jealousy. Keep 'em coming for sure.

I think I understand the points about why the British handicap system would be superior for him as someone who plays a great deal of golf, very well, and often in serious competition. I appreciate that the culture seems to be more demanding of honesty in your score reporting, although it seems unrelated to the actual index methodology. I also think the US system is not so bad for the vast majority of us who are not so talented and who may not have so many opportunities - the idea that a stretch of "only"15 bad rounds could tank my handicap by 5 strokes or more is funny - that is probably two years of play for me.

I love a serious competition, it really is my favorite part of golf, and that is only possible because of the handicap system. I do wish there were more opportunities for me to play in real events, but I don't have the time to join a league and I only get invited to so many member-guests. The vast majority of my golf is played with friends or family in a casual $5 Nassau foursomes match, and there are generally a few five foot double bogey putts conceded, especially if you were aggressively going after a 30 footer for net par to get the halve. If I was a sandbagger, I would miss those comebackers on purpose, but I usually just write down the 6 and move on, and my 16ish index (maintained at an online club through The Grint) seems to fairly reflect that once a year I might shoot 84 and on my worst days I can approach triple digits, and even on those worst days I can still probably help win a press to save my partner a few bucks.
 

jercra

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Or you'll be playing a nassau in which your opponent might concede you a putt and you never actually get the ball into the hole - and yet you still write a score on your card and submit that toward your handicap. Or you'll be playing alone some evening and hit some practice shots in addition to the ball you're ostensibly counting for your score.
Just as an FYI, the USGA handicap system has provisions for both of these. A Nassau where your opponent gives you a long putt should be scored exactly as match play rounds are scored. You are to take your "most likely" score. That can be based on the hole handicap relative to your index or what you legitimately think you get on the hole. Also, as of 2 years ago, you are not allowed to post any round in which you played alone.

With all of that being said, I love the concept of setting different course handicaps based on conditions. I played a course yesterday that I've played 50 times before and never seen the ins where they were. It was brutal and it would be interesting to change the rating of the course based on those pins. The course is usually crazy windy too so it would be awesome to see what kind of swings it took in rating on different days.
 

doldmoose34

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another handicap tale of woe.. sort of
week ago Tuesday in our league, my partner (8) and I (20) were matched up against a couple young guys, one was a 25 and the other was a 29. Cake walk right?
now I played about as well as I can shot a 42, and my guy Dennis shot 39 +2... we lost 2 down because the kid who was the 29 pulled a 'bishop from caddyshack round of my life' 43, chipped in on one hole, sunk a no brainer bomb on another and he was gettin a stroke on EVERY hole.

and from what everyone else said, it was the round of his life as he'd shot 54 the week before
 
Just as an FYI, the USGA handicap system has provisions for both of these. A Nassau where your opponent gives you a long putt should be scored exactly as match play rounds are scored. You are to take your "most likely" score. That can be based on the hole handicap relative to your index or what you legitimately think you get on the hole. Also, as of 2 years ago, you are not allowed to post any round in which you played alone.
And that, in a nutshell, is the difference between the US and UK systems. "Your most likely score" - really? If you are conceded a five-footer, what is more likely, that you'll make it or miss it? Impossible to tell. In the UK, you count YOUR SCORE. Period. (I didn't know that you can no longer post scores for rounds played by yourself, so thanks for that...although presumably that provision goes unenforced, right?)
I think I understand the points about why the British handicap system would be superior for him as someone who plays a great deal of golf, very well, and often in serious competition. I appreciate that the culture seems to be more demanding of honesty in your score reporting, although it seems unrelated to the actual index methodology. I also think the US system is not so bad for the vast majority of us who are not so talented and who may not have so many opportunities - the idea that a stretch of "only"15 bad rounds could tank my handicap by 5 strokes or more is funny - that is probably two years of play for me.
Well, I'd agree that the UK system cannot work in the US given the lack of competitive golf for all but the most serious American golfers. But the UK system makes it so that every golfer - no matter how talented and no matter how often he or she plays - can play competitive golf, which is the real beauty of it from my perspective. I don't think the US system is completely broken or anything, and for many golfers it does a good job of approximating your skill level in a way that facilitates competitive golf between golfers unequal skill. But it's really the combination of the handicap system and the competitive culture which go hand in hand to make the UK system so much more preferable to me.
 
Has anyone played St. Andrews? The one in westchester county, not the Open course. Supposedly nice but I didn't even know it existed until this week. Oldest course in us I think.

Any info would be helpful. Thx
I've never played St. Andrews in Hastings-on-Hudson, but here's Tom Doak's review of it in the first edition of his Confidential Guide to Golf Courses:
Many of you know the history of this club, and of Nicklaus' intervention to "save" it, but architecturally the result is a dismal failure. The original course was quite cramped, and had only one hole worth seeing, a short par-4 with a 150-foot drop from tee to fairway, encouraging big hitters to see how far (and, as a result, how far off line) they could hit it. The revision screws up this hole by lengthening it so that no one is tempted to take a rip at the green, spacing the original 18 holes out into 15 newfangled but not particularly great ones, and adding three new holes on ground atop the hill next to the new condos. Clearly, judging from the ridiculous new par-5 11th, the scheme was more about condos than golf.
That's based upon a visit in 1988 - sorry I don't have anything more recent than that, but I do tend to trust Doak's perspective on these things. He gives the course a rating of "3" on his 1-10 scale in which a "3" represents the average golf course in the world, the scale being purposefully weighted to be more granular in judging the world's greatest courses.
 

southshoresoxfan

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Just stayed at the Ritz-Carlton at Half Moon Bay for my companies national sales meeting this week. Flew in early on Monday and played the Ocean Course. Unbelievable. The view on holes 16-18 was unbelievable. Winds were whipping which crippled my score but the course was immaculate.

ImageUploadedBySons of Sam Horn1501287243.241193.jpg
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
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I've never played St. Andrews in Hastings-on-Hudson, but here's Tom Doak's review of it in the first edition of his Confidential Guide to Golf Courses:

That's based upon a visit in 1988 - sorry I don't have anything more recent than that, but I do tend to trust Doak's perspective on these things. He gives the course a rating of "3" on his 1-10 scale in which a "3" represents the average golf course in the world, the scale being purposefully weighted to be more granular in judging the world's greatest courses.
Thanks. I think. Lolol. Nicklaus has ruined many a course
 

jercra

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And that, in a nutshell, is the difference between the US and UK systems. "Your most likely score" - really? If you are conceded a five-footer, what is more likely, that you'll make it or miss it? Impossible to tell. In the UK, you count YOUR SCORE. Period. (I didn't know that you can no longer post scores for rounds played by yourself, so thanks for that...although presumably that provision goes unenforced, right?)

Well, I'd agree that the UK system cannot work in the US given the lack of competitive golf for all but the most serious American golfers. But the UK system makes it so that every golfer - no matter how talented and no matter how often he or she plays - can play competitive golf, which is the real beauty of it from my perspective. I don't think the US system is completely broken or anything, and for many golfers it does a good job of approximating your skill level in a way that facilitates competitive golf between golfers unequal skill. But it's really the combination of the handicap system and the competitive culture which go hand in hand to make the UK system so much more preferable to me.
So you don't play match play in the UK or you just don't post those rounds? Technically, your most likely score is based on your handicap. If you're a 5 and the hole is the 4 cap you're supposed to take a bogey unless it's near certain you'll make something else (like if you hit it in the water twice off the tee then a bogey isn't very likely). Also, is there no equitable stroke control? What would prevent me from from winning a match 3&2 and the posting two 11s to finish up the round and up my handicap?

And no, nobody enforces the no posting playing alone rule but it's golf, nobody enforces most of the rules. No one follows me around, even in tourneys, making sure I really found my ball in the tall grass or my drop was legal or the ball moved when ungrounded my club, or any other thing that requires self reporting.

To me it sounds like a hybrid of systems would work really well in the US whereby handicaps would move slower and course conditions would be in play. To me, the US system greatly favors the high handicapper and it sounds like the UK system favors the lower.

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So you don't play match play in the UK or you just don't post those rounds? Technically, your most likely score is based on your handicap. If you're a 5 and the hole is the 4 cap you're supposed to take a bogey unless it's near certain you'll make something else (like if you hit it in the water twice off the tee then a bogey isn't very likely). Also, is there no equitable stroke control? What would prevent me from from winning a match 3&2 and the posting two 11s to finish up the round and up my handicap?
You don't post scores from matchplay rounds. I've learned since coming to the UK that matchplay is and should be an entirely different beast than strokeplay: in matchplay, you play against your opponent, not your opponent and the scorecard simultaneously. I might say after a matchplay round that I probably shot around X (or X over par), but I don't treat that as a legitimate score the way I treat the number I shoot in a competitive strokeplay round. (It's really quite liberating to not have to write a score on your card!)

Re: equitable stroke control, the highest score you're allowed to count toward your handicap on any given hole in the UK system is a net double bogey.
To me it sounds like a hybrid of systems would work really well in the US whereby handicaps would move slower and course conditions would be in play. To me, the US system greatly favors the high handicapper and it sounds like the UK system favors the lower.
I'm not sure what you mean by "favors" in this context, but I think the UK system works equally well for high and low handicappers. Sounds like you won't be convinced, though.
 

Byrdbrain

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The US system does look at tournament scores separately and if they are out of line(on the low side) from the normal handicap there will be a downward adjustment made. That keeps the worst of the sandbaggers a little bit honest, at least when they are playing in real tournaments. A guy I play with who is a 9ish got the dreaded R on his card after he shot something like 72, 74 in a two day event and he got brought down to a 7(I don't think he is a sandbagger he just had a couple good rounds).
https://ncga.org/_pdf/10_3_handicap.pdf?80f055

Matchplay is tricky since it does change how the game is played. I think the USGA has simply decided that more rounds is better and while "assuming" scores certainly isn't ideal it doesn't end up skewing the number too much.

I do prefer the UK version of ESC to the US version which I think needs to be addressed. As a 12 I am limited to a 7 which is probably right for a par 4 but is too high for a 3 and too low for a 5. Net double bogey seems like a better solution.
 
Anyway, back to my Scottish Chronicles: I played in the monthly medal competition at Dunbar this morning, in a rare southerly wind of 15-20 mph which is probably the toughest wind for the course. For 12 holes I really didn't have any game at all: I bogeyed the first three holes (two par 5s and a downhill par 3), struggled to get the pace of the greens on my long putts and even missed a few 4-6 footers. I managed to scratch around and keep my score at +7 through 12, but I figured the CSS for today would probably be 73 or 74, which meant I'd need to play the last six holes in level par or maybe +1 to avoid my handicap going up by 0.1. (One of the fun aspects of the UK handicap system is guessing what you think the CSS might be and using that as a target at the end of your round - it's the closest a lot of us come to feeling real scoreboard pressure.)

At this point, I figured out a swing issue I was having with my weight transfer, and from the 13th I suddenly started hitting the ball solidly - which meant that at last I could realistically start to think about playing knockdown shots. There are few more satisfying feelings in golf for me than hitting a solid punch shot in a Scottish wind: ball back in your stance, abbreviated backswing and follow through, very little wrist action. After parring 13 and bogeying the tough 14th, I hit a decent knockdown shot into the 15th (6-iron from about 140 into a quartering wind) but the wind never moved it to the right; still, I got up-and-down from a deep bunker to save par. At 16, a 163-yard par 3 back into the wind, I knocked down a 2-iron which covered the flag and finished six feet away; sadly, I missed the putt, which was doubly frustrating as we have a "twos sweep" in our competitions at Dunbar. (Pay £1 to enter, and if you make a 2 on your card you split the pool with everyone else that has made a 2 - a contest which often gives you something to play for through the 16th even if you've ruined the rest of your scorecard.) And then at 17, into a quartering wind I knocked down a 4-iron from about 155 which drifted nicely on the wind, landed 20 feet left of the hole, kicked to the right, nearly went in and stopped less than a foot away. I tapped that one in to get back to +7 and figured a par at 18 would definitely be good enough and a bogey might be good enough to keep my handicap unchanged.

And then I pushed my tee shot at 18 over the stone wall to the right - out of bounds. What a stupid game.
 

Koufax

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I do prefer the UK version of ESC to the US version which I think needs to be addressed. As a 12 I am limited to a 7 which is probably right for a par 4 but is too high for a 3 and too low for a 5. Net double bogey seems like a better solution.
I believe that was the rule until a few years ago. I agree, it seems to make more sense. I wonder why they changed it?
 

Byrdbrain

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I assume the thought is it is easier, most golfers just need to keep one max number in mind(7 for me, 8 for someone in the 20s). Single digits are straight double bogey, no need to know the handicap for each hole.
I get that but it is a very broad brush. A 19 handicap could max out(for handicap purposes) at a net par on a difficult par 5.
 

jercra

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Re: equitable stroke control, the highest score you're allowed to count toward your handicap on any given hole in the UK system is a net double bogey.

I'm not sure what you mean by "favors" in this context, but I think the UK system works equally well for high and low handicappers. Sounds like you won't be convinced, though.
I'm not trying to argumentative. Sorry if it's coming off that. I'm legitimately fascinated by this stuff. As a low handicapper in the US I feel at a constant disadvantage when playing in tourneys, especially a match play that uses full handicaps, so any system that addresses that is good by me. What I meant by the UK system favoring the low handicap is that low handicappers are going to be much more consistent so their index won't change much anyway whereas the high handicappers will have a bigger range so the slower changes are less likely to reflect their current game. Now, that changes with knowing the ESC rules over there. With a cap of double bogey that's going to eliminate fast movement of high caps anyway. On the other hand, it means it will be hard to be a truly high handicap with a max possible score of 108.

Also, I'm totally jealous of the amount of tourney play you get over there. I used to play a lot more tourney rounds when I lived in Portland because we had a great men's club at my course, but in Colorado I have a hard time finding regular tourneys. It's fun to read your stories.
 

Byrdbrain

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I'm not trying to argumentative. Sorry if it's coming off that. I'm legitimately fascinated by this stuff. As a low handicapper in the US I feel at a constant disadvantage when playing in tourneys, especially a match play that uses full handicaps, so any system that addresses that is good by me. What I meant by the UK system favoring the low handicap is that low handicappers are going to be much more consistent so their index won't change much anyway whereas the high handicappers will have a bigger range so the slower changes are less likely to reflect their current game. Now, that changes with knowing the ESC rules over there. With a cap of double bogey that's going to eliminate fast movement of high caps anyway. On the other hand, it means it will be hard to be a truly high handicap with a max possible score of 108.
The highest score is "net double bogey", only someone playing to a 0 on a course would have a max possible score of 108.
 
I'm not trying to argumentative. Sorry if it's coming off that.
Don't worry - no offense assumed or taken.
What I meant by the UK system favoring the low handicap is that low handicappers are going to be much more consistent so their index won't change much anyway whereas the high handicappers will have a bigger range so the slower changes are less likely to reflect their current game. Now, that changes with knowing the ESC rules over there. With a cap of double bogey that's going to eliminate fast movement of high caps anyway.
I've not been a double-digit handicapper since my early teens, so I can't speak from experience, but I do think it's much easier for a high handicapper to come down than it is to go up...which I think represents the idea that one's handicap is supposed to be as much about potential as it is about ability in both systems. I was talking with one of my playing partners today (current handicap = 3.8) about handicaps, and he said he was single digits all his life until he more or less stopped playing for about five years when he was in his 30s. When he came back to the game and joined a new club, they didn't accept his assurance that he was a single-digit player and made him submit three new cards to get a new handicap, and he played so poorly in those rounds he suddenly found himself playing off 16. Well, in his first competition at his new club, he won by 8 shots (net), and in his second competition, he won by 6...and after those two rounds he was suddenly back to 6 again. Not exactly the best way to make friends at a new club, I'd have thought, but it does show how quickly your handicap can drop if you find some form.
 
Just stayed at the Ritz-Carlton at Half Moon Bay for my companies national sales meeting this week. Flew in early on Monday and played the Ocean Course. Unbelievable. The view on holes 16-18 was unbelievable. Winds were whipping which crippled my score but the course was immaculate.
I meant to say...I played Half Moon Bay many moons ago - one of my college teammates was a member there - and while I enjoyed it, I do agree with Tom Doak's assessment. QFT:
Strictly a one-hole golf course: the par-4 18th, playing south along a cliff overlooking the Pacific, being one of the better holes in California. The other 17 holes are mostly Hamburger Helper.
There is a lot to be said, though, for a) enjoying a different kind of golf course with different kinds of views to what you're used to, and b) any golf course that saves its most memorable hole for the very end. Half Moon Bay is a course where you have 4-5 hours to let your sense of anticipation build and build, and when you finally get to the climax, it really does deliver.

(EDIT: Hmm...I've just looked at some photos on the Half Moon Bay website, and it looks a LOT different to what I remember. Seems like they've taken the one final hole and built several others along or near the water - or perhaps the Ocean Course is the newer course and I haven't played it at all - so I suspect my above comments are mostly irrelevant.)
 
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Light-Tower-Power

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I'm in the market for a new carry bag after my old one ripped within a year, so I have a $100 credit on rockbottomgolf.com. Does anyone have any suggestions that I could pick up on their website? Looking at the Ogio silencer bag, but I'm a little weary of the extra weight and the gimmicky-ness of it. My necessities are durability, strap comfort, and (hopefully) a 14-way club divider. Price isn't really an issue. I'd love a Sun Mountain since I've heard nothing but great things about their bags, but I can't find anything that doesn't have better than a 4-way divider.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I'm in the market for a new carry bag after my old one ripped within a year, so I have a $100 credit on rockbottomgolf.com. Does anyone have any suggestions that I could pick up on their website? Looking at the Ogio silencer bag, but I'm a little weary of the extra weight and the gimmicky-ness of it. My necessities are durability, strap comfort, and (hopefully) a 14-way club divider. Price isn't really an issue. I'd love a Sun Mountain since I've heard nothing but great things about their bags, but I can't find anything that doesn't have better than a 4-way divider.
www.rockbottomgolf.com/bags-carts/stand-bags/titleist-golf-2016-lightweight-stand-bag/

I'm a big fan of the Titleist bags. A month ago I bought last year's StaDry model from Rock Bottom and love it. Looks like they are out of them now, it's a shame, great bag.
 

jercra

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As an added bonus, Titleist bags are actually made by Sun Mountain so you get a great bag at a nice price. I was going to suggest a Titleist bag originally but the request for 14 dividers in a carry bag seemed odd to me. Good to know I'm not alone there.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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14 way full length dividers or top cuff? I just got the new Titleist 14 way stand bag and it weighs 5.1 pounds, three full length I think. Not going to get much of a deal on it, but I got it on eBay for about 25% lower than rack rate and I love it. I don't think I've ever owned another brand, they really are the best.

TGW has the 2015 version for $130 right now. https://m.tgw.com/golf-bags/golf-stand-bags/titleist-2015-14-way-stand-bag

Edit: sorry, missed the part about having a credit with Rock Bottom. I also assume when OP says 'carry bag' he just means not a cart bag, but that may not be accurate.
 
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Light-Tower-Power

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Right, I mean not a cart bag. I guess I should have said stand bag. Those are good points about the 14 way dividers, I didn't think of that. My last bag was like PP's. 14 way top cover but only like 3 full dividers. That's what I'm looking for. I'm going to check out what RBG has for Titleist bags. In the end a quality bag that is comfortable to carry and durable is more important than the top or the dividers.
 
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Light-Tower-Power

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www.rockbottomgolf.com/bags-carts/stand-bags/titleist-golf-2016-lightweight-stand-bag/

I'm a big fan of the Titleist bags. A month ago I bought last year's StaDry model from Rock Bottom and love it. Looks like they are out of them now, it's a shame, great bag.
I'm between this and the Callaway Fusion 14:
https://www.rockbottomgolf.com/bags/stand-bags/callaway-golf-fusion-14-stand-bag/

The Titleist 14 stand bag seems to have some leg drooping issues when carrying based on some of the reviews I've read and is significantly pricier, though it sounds like PP likes it. The Callaway isn't any heavier than that Titleist and has the dividers so I'm leaning in that direction, but I'm a little nervous that it'll end up being too bulky, and there are hardly any reviews of it out there. Maybe I should take a ride to Dicks or Golf & Ski to take them for a spin before buying them online.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Just to be clear, I have the newer version of that bag, I haven't had any leg drooping issues but I also have only had it for a few months. Can't speak to the reviews you read. I just have always loved Titleist bags and the one time I did have an issue (something broke on the stand) they replaced the part for free. Ive always found them to be durable, good pocket alignment/quantity and they always have comfortable straps.

Only thing I would mention is the dividers on that callaway, there doesn't look like a good slot for a big putter grip. Not sure if you use one or not, but I'd check reviews to see if those two top slots are big enough for whatever you're using.
 

Plantiers Wart

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I have that Calloway bag and the stitching connecting the strap to the top split within months. I resewed it myself and now after another year it's done. Look elsewhere
 

jercra

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Arvada, Co
From what I understand all other things being equal every driver is about the same distance on a perfect strike. What you're looking for is something that fits the best and is the most forgiving.

I hit the TMs well but I don't find them any better than my G30 with the tour shaft. The TMs seem a little longer on mishits but also go farther off line than the G/G30 too. So its a trade off IMO. The new G400 feels different though. It seems to have the power all across the face of the TM while also being even more forgiving than the previous Ping drivers. I think its a bit of a breakthrough -- at least as much of one that there can be legally. It's the best driver I've hit and idk, it's hard to describe but it just feels different. You have to try it yourself.
I got to hit the g400 yesterday at the best fitting location I know. Full, outdoor range, trackman and they'll let you sit there and hit balls all day. Tried with a few different shafts and well, that's the best driver I've ever hit. For some context, I was 9/10 hungover, wearing work clothes and it was hot as shit and I had no glove on. This was in Portland at sea level. Heal hits were going 298. Had multiple drives in the 325 range. It just goes and it goes straight. The spin rates are incredible. I was getting 1800-2200 on well struck balls and only up around 4k on poorly struck ones. Just an amazing club and it took all of my power to walk out without spending $500. If I was home, I probably would have bought it.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SoSH mobile app
 

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,936
Hey, I played golf today with the starter of this thread! @Koufax was very good company, and also the first SoSHer I've met in person, which is nice. Lovely day for it at Dunbar as well; apart from the sun and lack of wind, the surf was really high and quite noisy (in a very pleasant way) all the way round. Good times!
I can verify that CP is a gracious host and a scratch golfer (or very nearly so). I played poorly, not breaking 100. Nonetheless, he could not have been nicer to me or to my friend, who struggled mightily, having played only occasionally in the last 10 years.

CP's home course is one of the most beautiful on earth. I am not a good photographer, and even if I were the visuals wold not tell the whole story. The sound of waves crashing on the rocks alongside the course adds enormous charm. The extent of frontage along the sea is breathtaking. It seems to go on for a mile or so. CP is a lucky man to be able to play that course regularly.
upload_2017-8-12_12-26-47.png

Thanks for your company, CP. It was a marvelous day.
 
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Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
15,947
Nashua, NH
Rock Bottom had the 2016 Sun Mountain 3.5 on closeout so combined with my store credit I was able to snag it for $34.99. It doesn't have the fancy dividers that the Titleist or Callaway bags have, but it was kind of impossible to pass up a Sun Mountain for that price when the Titleist or Callaway bag would run me like $150 even with the credit.
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,147
Arvada, Co
Rock Bottom had the 2016 Sun Mountain 3.5 on closeout so combined with my store credit I was able to snag it for $34.99. It doesn't have the fancy dividers that the Titleist or Callaway bags have, but it was kind of impossible to pass up a Sun Mountain for that price when the Titleist or Callaway bag would run me like $150 even with the credit.
That's a great bag. It's all I've used for the last many, many years. $35 is about as good as you could have ever hoped. Great score.
 

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
15,947
Nashua, NH
The sun mountain bag that I just retired lasted me every bit of 10 years and I play A LOT of golf.
That is exactly what I'm looking for. At the end of the day, durability and comfort matter more than bells and whistles. I walk 100% of the time so I was always a little skeptical of the 5+ pound hybrid cart/stand bags once I fooled around with them at Dick's this weekend.
 

Phragle

wild card bitches
SoSH Member
Jan 1, 2009
13,154
Carmine's closet
I got to hit the g400 yesterday at the best fitting location I know. Full, outdoor range, trackman and they'll let you sit there and hit balls all day. Tried with a few different shafts and well, that's the best driver I've ever hit. For some context, I was 9/10 hungover, wearing work clothes and it was hot as shit and I had no glove on. This was in Portland at sea level. Heal hits were going 298. Had multiple drives in the 325 range. It just goes and it goes straight. The spin rates are incredible. I was getting 1800-2200 on well struck balls and only up around 4k on poorly struck ones. Just an amazing club and it took all of my power to walk out without spending $500. If I was home, I probably would have bought it.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SoSH mobile app
Looks like the hangover is still kickin. What head-shaft combo was working best? Not sure what you're swinging now, but you gotta hit it back to back with your current driver before you pull the trigger.
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,147
Arvada, Co
Looks like the hangover is still kickin. What head-shaft combo was working best? Not sure what you're swinging now, but you gotta hit it back to back with your current driver before you pull the trigger.
Well, that was a new hangover that lead to that ;)

I hit just the 9.5 head, not the LS one. For shafts I hit it with the Alta CB55 x-flex (63g) first, then actually took a bunch of swings with the Ping Tour 65 Regular flex shaft (had 2 buddies with me who hit regular flex) and the hit some more with the Ping Tour 75 x-flex. The Tour 75 were the best results as far as a combination of consistent distant, direction, spin and launch angle. The R flex was the most inconsistent for direction and spin but the longest when caught correctly (to be expected since it flexes more and is lighter) while the Alta felt great but performance overall was behind the Ping. Normally, I'd be totally on board with going back with my current driver and doing side by side tests as well as changing the order I hit the combinations since it's hard to know from cold to warmed up whether the swings are better or the combo is better. The issue I have is, no such place exists in Denver that I know of. I was in Portland for work and I've bought clubs at this place before. I would spend half of my life at a place like that it if existed in Denver. So, I'm torn as to what to do. I'll probably just stick with what I have now, but man, I'm so very tempted to order one.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
I just got a Ping G set of woods - 10.5D (65g tour shaft, s flex); 3w, 3H and 4H - and I absolutely love them. I haven't hit Ping in a long time, but these things are fantastic.
 

Phragle

wild card bitches
SoSH Member
Jan 1, 2009
13,154
Carmine's closet
Well, that was a new hangover that lead to that ;)

I hit just the 9.5 head, not the LS one. For shafts I hit it with the Alta CB55 x-flex (63g) first, then actually took a bunch of swings with the Ping Tour 65 Regular flex shaft (had 2 buddies with me who hit regular flex) and the hit some more with the Ping Tour 75 x-flex. The Tour 75 were the best results as far as a combination of consistent distant, direction, spin and launch angle. The R flex was the most inconsistent for direction and spin but the longest when caught correctly (to be expected since it flexes more and is lighter) while the Alta felt great but performance overall was behind the Ping. Normally, I'd be totally on board with going back with my current driver and doing side by side tests as well as changing the order I hit the combinations since it's hard to know from cold to warmed up whether the swings are better or the combo is better. The issue I have is, no such place exists in Denver that I know of. I was in Portland for work and I've bought clubs at this place before. I would spend half of my life at a place like that it if existed in Denver. So, I'm torn as to what to do. I'll probably just stick with what I have now, but man, I'm so very tempted to order one.
Sounds like this place in Portland has you spoiled
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,147
Arvada, Co
Sounds like this place in Portland has you spoiled
It sure has. I found a place with Trackman about an hour from my house but they don't sell clubs and charge $120 for a fitting. I have no idea what they have in house for shafts and heads but I may just have to do that.

And of course, I found out the guy I played with on Saturday has a buddy that is the Ping rep for Portland and can get the club for a good deal. Supposedly he's going to order one for me. Nothing to lose if I can get it for well under face value. Ebay will act as insurance.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
I played Hazelton in Rehoboth, MA yesterday. This was the course formally known as Sun Valley. It's been closed for the better part of the past decade and fell into serious disrepair. The owner of nearby Crestwood bought it and renamed/reopened the course this spring.

The good news is that he has sunk money into it. The greens were completely rebuilt and rolled extremely nice. They were slow but that was likely due to not having been cut. They've also replaced all the sand and judging from the vast number of pipes laying around are going to continue to address irrigation needs on the course.

The bad news is that the fairways and tee boxes are to put it mildly a work in progress. They releveled the tees which was nice but the grass outside of the greens is current 60% weeds, 30% bare spots and 10% actual grass. The club house also looks like it's a building that wasn't cared for during the past decade. It looks like it may fall down at any moment but they don't actually use it. We paid at a folding table set up outside the building. There was also hardly anyone playing, on a day that most in Rhode Island had off from work.

The course itself was alright. A few interesting holes and a few that were just straight and wide open. Not my favorite layout ever, but not a dud either.

But for those of you looking to get on a public course it was only $30 with cart for 18. We showed up at 8am with no tee time and finished 18 holes by 1130. There is something to be said for cheap and empty, even with well less than ideal fairways.

They were smart to invest in the greens first and the fairways will come around with time and money. If you're looking for really cheap golf, especially if you or your friends are more the casual golf type then it's worth checking out. Especially if you say the name really fast, people might think you said 'Hazeltine' and be impressed :)
 

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,380
So next weekend is my hockey team's annual Ryder Cup tournament, and I'm pretty excited for it. I know I've posted about this before, but we started this about 6 years ago with just 8 of us, and cobbled together a 4 on 4 (including @NickEsasky) one day tourney over 36 holes. After that we expanded to 45 holes, gave Esasky the boot and kept it to just our men's league hockey team, and went on the road to Plymouth for a weekend.

The year after that we expanded and brought in another group of guys from a team we're friends with. Moved it to 8 vs 8, did Plymouth again, and started a tradition. Last year we went to Portsmouth, NH. We trade off "host" teams who pick the destination/venues and are returning 15 out of the 16 guys from last year.

The format is three 9 hole matches on Saturday (Best Ball, Alternate Shot, Scramble) then two 9 hole matches on Sunday (switching opponents within our foursome at the turn. Pairings and orders for Saturday are submitted blind in advance, Sunday's matchups/pairings are drawn out of a hat after Sunday (which is HIGH drama). Everyone is handicapped as well, so it ends up pretty fair.

This year is in Newport, where we're each renting a house for the weekend. We're playing a friendly/prep round at Montaup CC Friday, then 27 holes at Newport National GC Saturday, staying over, then driving halfway home in the morning before playing our 18 at Olde Scotland Links on Sunday.

Going to be an awesome weekend of golf and beers, and I'm most excited that now it's a real tradition that's taken hold. We've kept it within driving distance for the first few years but I can see us going a bit further in the future. Will update after the carnage subsides next weekend.

Anyone else do any fun trips/outings like that as a yearly tradition?
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,147
Arvada, Co
That trip sounds absolutely awesome. I've posted many times about my annual trip to Bandon Dunes so I won't go over that again. I've recently started going every year to Vegas in March for the Rugby Sevens tourney. My other buddy is a big golfer so we played golf in the morning and drink the rest of the day at Sevens. Lather, rinse, repeat. This year, we're extending the trip a day on each side and extending the invite list. I'm hoping to get 4 golfers this year, then more next year. If I get 4 this year, I'll set up similar thing to your Ryder Cup trip. Bandon is the week after the Vegas trip. My swing and my liver are usually fucked by the time I get home from Bandon.
 

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,380
It's our dream to bring this over to Bandon one year, or somewhere similar. Maybe on the 10th anniversary or something.
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,147
Arvada, Co
If you ever do, let me know. I've been many, many times and I've run trips for years that involve 24 guys coming in from around the country.