2017 Jimmy G: The Dilemma

[Hoodie Sleeves]

Yeah, but the 08 Pats went 11-5 and missed the playoffs as one of only a handful of 11-5 teams to ever do so. And they had the sixth best point differential in the whole NFL that year. It's pretty easy to compare that Pats team to the first non-Jordan Bulls team, I think. It's still a team sport in both cases, no matter how transcendent the one player is.

The Patriots 2008 offensive DVOA after they let Cassel take the training wheels off was almost exactly the same as their 2009 DVOA with Brady (25% range), which is almost exactly the same range as this year, and significantly higher than last year, and falls right in-line with the patriots offensive DVOA most years (+15-35%). There's a strong argument to be made that even if they were similar caliber of players (they aren't) you'd see a decline early just because Cassel had been receiving the minority of the practice snaps. The idea that they were going to be able to maintain 2007 is ridiculous - they couldn't even maintain the pace the whole season. 2007 and 2010 are major outliers, not 2008.

They didn't miss the playoffs because of Cassel - they missed it because their defense was terrible and landed them in a weird tiebreaker. (from a relative standpoint, the defense declined more than the offence did from 2007->2008 from 8th to 20th)

Here are the second half points scored by the Cassel led offense:
20, 31, 48, 10, 24, 49, 47, 13 - 30 point's per game, and only one game where they were really a problem (loss to Pitt 33-10. 13 point game was a win in terrible weather).

So yes, I absolutely believe that BB will put together a top tier offense post Brady. Will they be historically good like 2007/10? Probably not, but they'll absolutely be consistently top 10 in the league.

 

[Stitch01]

Moss and in his prime Welker didnt appear on an injury report in 2008. Mankins, Light, and Koppen were all in their prime and once Neal came back for the excrable Billy Yates the OL was the real strength of that offense. The 2008 team finished 15th in passing DVOA, 4th in rushing DVOA, 15th in passing DVOA is easily the worst of the last 15 years.

Im not quite as confident the offense holds up as well with a caretaker behind the recent vintage of between adequate to dogshit OL or if we're in a year where Austin Collie/Aaron Dobson WR combos or the corpse of Steven Jackson are seeing significant playing time. Id argue Brady has been a much bigger portion of the offensive success from 2013-2017 than he was from 2007-2012 because the line has gone from good to below average.

 

[DJnVa]

I didn't say it was because of the numbers. I say it because they had to hobble the offense for him - which is expected. They won the Houston game in spite of Brisset because of the defense. Without a broken finger, I think they still lose in Buffalo. The skillset that Brisset showed last year is one that usually plays well for a game or two, but not one that typically leads to viable NFL quarterbacking. He may get better - he may not.

In my opinion, from what we saw last year, there is a gigantic skill gap between Garoppalo and Brisset. Brisset will probably close some of that gap with more practice/film/etc, but right now, IMO, the Patriots would be a decidedly worse team with Brisset starting than Garappolo. Is that really under debate?.

So your evidence for him being "bad" is that they changed the offense for him BEFORE he played in a game? How could anyone know he would be "basically bad" if he had yet to play? Changing the offense because your 3rd string QB suddenly is your starter doesn't mean he was "bad".

Saying there's a skill gap between JG and JB also doesn't mean he was "bad".

 

[heavyde050]

So your evidence for him being "bad" is that they changed the offense for him BEFORE he played in a game? How could anyone know he would be "basically bad" if he had yet to play? Changing the offense because your 3rd string QB suddenly is your starter doesn't mean he was "bad".

Saying there's a skill gap between JG and JB also doesn't mean he was "bad".

There is also a significant skill gap between TB12 and JG.
I agree he wasn't bad - he was a rookie. It is like it is forgotten that JG was in his third full year when he played in 2016.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

So your evidence for him being "bad" is that they changed the offense for him BEFORE he played in a game? How could anyone know he would be "basically bad" if he had yet to play? Changing the offense because your 3rd string QB suddenly is your starter doesn't mean he was "bad".

Saying there's a skill gap between JG and JB also doesn't mean he was "bad".

No, I'm saying he was bad because he was inaccurate, had poor vision, had to have incredibly simple reads, often missed reads, and just generally looked bad.

Was he bad for a late 3rd round pick forced into service early for his time? No, probably not - but the expected baseline for a player like that isn't 'starting NFL quarterback' - it's 'out of the NFL in 3 years' - and JB didn't show me anything significantly outside his expected performance.

Are you arguing that he was good? Because that sure as hell wasn't what I saw.

There is also a significant skill gap between TB12 and JG.
I agree he wasn't bad - he was a rookie. It is like it is forgotten that JG was in his third full year when he played in 2016.

The vast majority of quarterbacks drafted in JB's relative position never even come close to above average NFL performance at any point in their career. There's a chance that JB is a viable quarterback - but it's more likely that he's another Ryan Mallet, or any one of the other dozens of promising question marks that never amount to anything, because that's typically what 3rd round picks at QB are. JG is different as he's already exceeded his expected projection - he may not be a star, but his floor is drastically higher than JB's.

The skill gap between JG and JB is significantly larger than that between JG and Brady, and Brady IS going to get worse, and most likely soon.

 

[heavyde050]

No, I'm saying he was bad because he was inaccurate, had poor vision, had to have incredibly simple reads, often missed reads, and just generally looked bad.

Was he bad for a late 3rd round pick forced into service early for his time? No, probably not - but the expected baseline for a player like that isn't 'starting NFL quarterback' - it's 'out of the NFL in 3 years' - and JB didn't show me anything significantly outside his expected performance.

Are you arguing that he was good? Because that sure as hell wasn't what I saw.


The vast majority of quarterbacks drafted in JB's relative position never even come close to above average NFL performance at any point in their career. There's a chance that JB is a viable quarterback - but it's more likely that he's another Ryan Mallet, or any one of the other dozens of promising question marks that never amount to anything, because that's typically what 3rd round picks at QB are. JG is different as he's already exceeded his expected projection - he may not be a star, but his floor is drastically higher than JB's.

The skill gap between JG and JB is significantly larger than that between JG and Brady, and Brady IS going to get worse, and most likely soon.

We will have have to agree to disagree. As you are mostly referring to last year, the skill gap between TB12 and JG was equal if not greater than JG and JB. TB12 had one of the best seasons of his hall of fame career. To even say that JG even approached that skill level seems a little hyperbolic.
I get that three years from now JG will be closer to TB12 than JB is to JG, but that wasn't what was being discussed. People will talk about Jimmy being "all-world" mostly because he played the best half of his life against Miami before getting injured.
I get that JG will probably be the next starting QB of the Pats, but I really think it will be helpful to reset our collective expectations. I really don't see Jimmy G as a hall of fame QB. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Stitch01]

Yeah that is a wild statement IMO. Brady played in God mode for 12 games last year. He was, at worst, the second best player in the league when on the field. His ANY/A+ was the 11th highest of all time. Sure, Brady's going to get worse and, sure, there's an argument that if you believe Jimmy G is a good NFL quarterback that you forgo a small number of Brady seasons for a large number of Jimmy G seasons. But the skill gap between the two players at the start of '17? Extremely large.

Jimmy G's floor is failed starter/career backup. Yeah its higher than the average 3rd round pick for sure, but something like Ryan Fitzpatrick's career value would probably be a generous floor at this point.

 

[bakahump]

Yea, and not sure at this point we can say that he will be leaps and bounds better then JB. He was last year, with 3 years experience in the system. JGs probably still better this year. Next year who knows. I mean seriously. We simply dont know. Seems like we trashed JG way more his first few Preaseason games when compared to JBs reviews. Also I cant imagine us having the same success with JG that we had with JB had Jimmy been forced to play the 3rd and 4th games of his NFL career.

 

[dcmissle]

Some numbers associated with the Bears trading up one spot from 3 to 2 to draft Trubisky:

1. The Bears sent the 3rd overall pick, a 2017 third-round pick (No. 67), a 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 111 overall) and a 2018 third-round pick.

2. They get 4 years of Trubisky, an option for a 5th year, and per a recent analysis in Forbes, this for a contract of $29 million, with $18.25 guaranteed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/2017/04/28/2017-nfl-draft-1st-round-rookie-salary-projections/#515da93e6f04

If the Bears had no interest in JG, if the Pats had no intention of trading him for anything remotely reasonable, and if JG would not have signed an extension with the Bears on these terms or close, maybe none of these numbers matter.

But this is the most relevant transaction last night to a topic that has been beaten to death -- but still receives much attention from beat writers this morning. Cabot in Cleve, Howe in Boston.

 

[Red Averages]

Also need to include the Mike Glennon contract as part of the transaction.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter now
Browns inquired last night about trading for Patriots' QB Jimmy Garappolo and were told, once again, NE not interested, per sources.

 

[H78]

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter now
Browns inquired last night about trading for Patriots' QB Jimmy Garappolo and were told, once again, NE not interested, per sources.

It'd be great if this is a long play by Belichick to make teams think, "Wow, he really must be great. Belichick won't budge on moving him..." only to see him franchise him next year and get someone to trade three 1st round picks for him. ;-)

 

[axx]

Maybe Tom really is retiring after next season...

 

[gtmtnbiker]

Some numbers associated with the Bears trading up one spot from 3 to 2 to draft Trubisky:

Why did the Bears trade up? Were they concerned that the 49ers were going to take Trubisky? Why didn't the 49ers reject the offer and draft him themselves?

 

[dcmissle]

Maybe some will finally be persuaded that BB really does want him, and that his presence on the roster is not attributable to the "stupidity" of other teams.

But maybe not. Having already persuaded themselves that it would be "stupid" for the Pats to keep him, his continued presence among us just must be the fault of other teams.

 

[dcmissle]

Why did the Bears trade up? Were they concerned that the 49ers were going to take Trubisky? Why didn't the 49ers reject the offer and draft him themselves?

Unclear. I never thought for a minute the 49ers would take him. I think they have plenty of time and that their QB of the future is now on an another team's roster. My guess is either interest from other teams, or Lynch masterfully played the Bears.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Maybe some will finally be persuaded that BB really does want him, and that his presence on the roster is not attributable to the "stupidity" of other teams.

But maybe not. Having already persuaded themselves that it would be "stupid" for the Pats to keep him, his continued presence among us just must be the fault of other teams.

At this point, anyone who isn't willing to accept the Occam's razor answer is unlikely ever to do so.

I continue to be befuddled about the method to Belichick's madness. I have trouble understanding it. When people I work with who know I am the resident Patriots fan ask, "why aren't they trying to trade him," all I can say is, "I'm not sure."

But my inability to understand a thing, which clearly seems to the case, does not make it false. I have no problem with that. Some seem to.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Maybe some will finally be persuaded that BB really does want him, and that his presence on the roster is not attributable to the "stupidity" of other teams.

But maybe not. Having already persuaded themselves that it would be "stupid" for the Pats to keep him, his continued presence among us just must be the fault of other teams.

I'm of the opinion that if Brady wanted to keep playing 4-5 more years that they should cash in on Jimmy. This is especially true given the talent that was dropping out of the top 10 last night. If I could get somebody like OJ Howard+picks this year+ future 1st for Jimmy, that would be tough to turn down. But if the window for Brady is 1-2 years, then yes you keep Jimmy.

 

[BigJimEd]

It's not just that Bill likes him. I don't think many doubted that.

IMO, if Belichick's turning down the type of haul rumored then he sees a path for Garappolo as the QB of the future.

 

[Soxy]

It'd be great if this is a long play by Belichick to make teams think, "Wow, he really must be great. Belichick won't budge on moving him..." only to see him franchise him next year and get someone to trade three 1st round picks for him. ;-)

It may be more about Belichick's comfort level going into a season with only a 40 year old QB (even an all-timer like Brady) and an unproven second year player that gives him pause. I wouldn't necessarily assume that this is all about how great BB thinks Garroppolo might be.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Belichick's plan is to go into training camp, see how the team practices and performs, and then reevaluate. If Brady looks just as sharp and effective as always, and Brissett looks like he's made significant improvements, maybe that's when he decides the team can move on from Garroppolo for some draft capital. If Brady looks like age is finally catching up to him, and Brissett hasn't turned a corner, then maybe not.

I'm not saying I think this is the case. But it certainly could be. Obviously the market wouldn't be the same. But one only needs to look at what happened with Sam Bradford and the Vikings to see how quickly one can develop. And if a team likes Garroppolo a lot now, they're still going to like him a lot in 3 months.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

We also don't know what we don't know.

We think we know Tom Brady. A body-is-my-temple guy fueled by internal motivation and 6th round and Lloyd Carr slights.

And maybe that's what he is. But maybe Belichick sees wrinkles we don't and has decided that having Jimmy on the team to push Brady or create a measure of competition is a good thing. Or something in that ballpark.

We also tend to analyze this with only one moving part: Can the Patriots win the Super Bowl with Jimmy at the helm. If the answer to that question is, "maybe but very unlikely," then we all sort of say, "so what's the purpose of having him this year if we're probably fucked anyway if Brady goes down." But maybe Jimmy's true value in Belichick's mind is not having him to replace Brady at the end of the year, but as insurance if he needs a game or two.

I don't know how to value all that stuff. But here's a question: Which would you have taken yesterday morning?

1) Patriots get the 12th overall pick, but have to play in the wild card game on the road in the playoffs this year, or

2) Patriots get a bye and host the first game?

It's a silly question, and I don't know what the hell the answer is. If there's a point that I'm making it's, I guess, that every team pretends there are really only two results of a given season: winning a championship and not winning a championship. But that's not really true in many cities. Coaches are coaching for their jobs, some teams are just trying to show improvement, etc. It's mostly true in Foxboro, and it makes for some interesting cost-benefit kind of decisions about some of these things.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Maybe some will finally be persuaded that BB really does want him, and that his presence on the roster is not attributable to the "stupidity" of other teams.

But maybe not. Having already persuaded themselves that it would be "stupid" for the Pats to keep him, his continued presence among us just must be the fault of other teams.

Or maybe the five years at reasonable rates carries a higher value than we are properly assessing and the prospect of paying to only the acquisition cost but also a market rate contract was deemed prohibitive enough that teams were willing to offer more to move up than they were for JG.

Or maybe BB overplayed his hand. Or maybe Don Yee told BB that JG would never resign in Cleveland.

Or maybe a dozen other things. I don't recall anyone (at least not a lot of people) citing the "stupidity of other teams" as why he wasn't traded, but maybe you could correct me on that with a quote.

Some of us have certainly questioned whether it was worth one year of a backup to turn down future value. I don't see how that's an unreasonable question, when the only answer one can come back with is "what if Brady gets hurt, he's 40 years old ya know?'.

Beyond that one season of control, the questions become how long you think Brady will play, how long you think JG is willing to wait, how much will it cost to keep him on the bench, etc, etc.

But again, please cite the poster that stated he hasn't been traded because "other teams are stupid".

 

[RedOctober3829]

Cabot keeps doubling down on her thinking that the Pats would trade Jimmy if the right deal was presented.

"Expect the Browns to go back to the Patriots and try again today. They have plenty of ammunition to pull it off, and I'm told the Patriots would do it if the price is right. Are the Browns willing to meet their demands?"

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/browns_buzz_on_trading_for_jim.html

 

[bankshot1]

There's no time like the present for BB to plant the story that Brissett is off the table.

 

[moondog80]

I read today that they can just franchise JG next year and then trade him, and that this is exactly what they did with Cassel. True?

 

[quint]

Yes. Teams can franchise players on their roster to prevent them from signing with other teams.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I read today that they can just franchise JG next year and then trade him, and that this is exactly what they did with Cassel. True?

Yes, that is what Washington can do with Kirk Cousins.

 

[NoXInNixon]

I read today that they can just franchise JG next year and then trade him, and that this is exactly what they did with Cassel. True?

Yes, that's what they did. But they only got back the 34th overall pick, and they had to include Mike Vrabel in the trade as well.

The return they get for JG next year on a franchise tag will be far, far less than what they would get right now.

 

[quint]

Yes, that's what they did. But they only got back the 34th overall pick, and they had to include Mike Vrabel in the trade as well.

The return they get for JG next year on a franchise tag will be far, far less than what they would get right now.

One really can't say that last paragraph with any sort of certainty. Not if you follow the league with any sort of regularity.

 

[BigJimEd]

I read today that they can just franchise JG next year and then trade him, and that this is exactly what they did with Cassel. True?

They did trade Cassel after tagging him but a couple things.

1) demand for Garappolo might change. Not that we really know what had been offered but he'd likely be worth less next off-season.

2) Tagging him with the intention of trading is technically against the CBA. Teams must have good faith intention of keeping player on roster at that price. Teams have bent this rule but seeing how there was talk that Belichick wouldn't discuss Butler while he was a RFA, I think it is with noting.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

This is not that complicated.

QB is the most important position in the game by a lot. Even a"pretty good" QB is a valuable commodity.

Brady is 40, and could fall off a cliff at any moment. BB obviously thinks JG is or is likely become a good QB, knows how difficult and expensive it is to acquire a good QB, and is therefore unwilling to trade him. He's seen the Kosar/Vinny side of the mountain, and isn't interested in returning.

 

[Sportsbstn]

Cabot keeps doubling down on her thinking that the Pats would trade Jimmy if the right deal was presented.

"Expect the Browns to go back to the Patriots and try again today. They have plenty of ammunition to pull it off, and I'm told the Patriots would do it if the price is right. Are the Browns willing to meet their demands?"

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/browns_buzz_on_trading_for_jim.html

This is illogical from what we have read. The Patriots didn't turn down an offer for JG, they said flat out he isn't available for trade. Turning down an offer, I could see him available, but he clearly isn't at this point. These sources keep saying the Patriots will jump if the price is right, but they aren't even accepting offers. Time to move on to me.

 

[bankshot1]

Given the Brady/JG conundrum, and not knowing when Brady decides to hang them up, and given the Browns desire, f the Browns could be induced to use a shit ton of thier draft capital, might BB be inclined to trade JG for their #2 and #3 tonight, and their '18 #1 and a #2 on the hope that with a young team, the Browns might suck and the Pats could be in a position for Darnold or have the draft capital to trade up for him if they so choose?

 

[OurF'ingCity]

The return they get for JG next year on a franchise tag will be far, far less than what they would get right now.

Even if this is true (and as quint says we don't necessarily know that to be true), isn't it possible that Belichick just values having a strong backup for this coming year more than the difference between JG's trade value this year vs. next year?

In other words, it's not obvious to me (and apparently not obvious to BB either) that JG as backup in 2017-18 + 4th rounder (or whatever JG brings back next year) < No JG as backup in 2017-18 + 1st rounder (or whatever the Browns have been offering).

Of course, as others have suggested, this could all be smokescreen to further bleed the Browns/other teams for even more of a return. But it sounds like, if the reporting is accurate, the Pats are very adamant that they are simply not trading him for anything.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I read today that they can just franchise JG next year and then trade him

There is one limitation, I believe, in that you need to have the cap space to exercise the franchise, even if you're prepared to trade him 10 minutes later.

This is not insignificant when the player is a QB. The Pats either have, or will in the next 3 days, put an additional $8 to $9 million on the 2018 cap for Cooks, and Brady alone is an extra $8 million for next year, so the idea that they will have $23 million in cap space to execute a sign and trade is an open question. Teams usually find ways to make cap space when they need it for a short term, so this is just in the nature of an FYI.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Given the Brady/JG conundrum, and not knowing when Brady decides to hang them up, and given the Browns desire, f the Browns could be induced to use a shit ton of thier draft capital, might BB be inclined to trade JG for their #2 and #3 tonight, and their '18 #1 and a #2 on the hope that with a young team, the Browns might suck and the Pats could be in a position for Darnold or have the draft capital to trade up for him if they so choose?

I read somewhere on twitter last night (sorry, but I can't remember where) that the Browns offer was a first and a second -- most likely the 12 and maybe the Texans second-rounder in 18. If that's true, and who really knows, then the Browns are really far away from what might be considered an interesting offer.

Reiss reports today

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19265283/cleveland-browns-again-turned-new-england-patriots-jimmy-garoppolo

that the Browns tried again last night. That seems to indicate to me that the Patriots haven't closed the door completely. They haven't told the Browns to go away, stop bothering us; they just want the gold, the frankincense and the myrrh

 

[bakahump]

Yea cant see the "Wait till Aug and see how brady looks" argument.
What does that do exactly? Prove that Brady looks good for this year? Ok I dont think there is much doubt of that amongst SOSHers or the media. (Granted BB MIGHT have a question about Bradys upcoming season for some unknown to us reason but there has been even less evidence of that then a normal Patriot Secret.).
So if we assume Brady is ready for THIS season, Trading JG in Aug gets us picks for NEXT year. Wouldnt we have even more of a question of Brady being ready for his age 41 season? Is one more season of success at 40 gonna makes us "comfortable" that he will be good for age 41? Especially for a drastically diminished package of picks?

Same argument for trading JG after a franchise tag in 2018. If we are worried about needing a "quality backup" (meaning a 2nd qb of "starter quality", I say that because Brissett may well now be a capable 1-2 game emergency backup that we all claim is what we are worried about) in Bradys age 40 season it wont be better in his age 41 (or 42, or 43...)

No.
I was as big a voice in wanting to trade JG as anyone. But this obviously shows that Bradys window is done perhaps after this year and most definitely after next.

Its the only thing that makes sense.
I hope JG was not a mirage, and I hope Brady goes out on top.

 

[NickEsasky]

that the Browns tried again last night. That seems to indicate to me that the Patriots haven't closed the door completely. They haven't told the Browns to go away, stop bothering us; they just want the gold, the frankincense and the myrrh

You really think think the Pats can get the same haul for Jimmy G that Brady got at birth?

 

[RedOctober3829]

Tom E. Curran‏Verified account @tomecurran 7s8 seconds ago
If there was truly no conceivable offer that would get the Patriots to trade Garoppolo, they would have told Browns to screw by now.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Tom E. Curran‏Verified account @tomecurran 7s8 seconds ago
If there was truly no conceivable offer that would get the Patriots to trade Garoppolo, they would have told Browns to screw by now.

Curran is blunter than I am

 

[E5 Yaz]

Mary Kay Cabot‏Verified account @MaryKayCabot 24m24 minutes ago
My guess is that the #Patriots told the #Browns "not enough'' last night instead of a flat out "no'' on Jimmy Garoppolo

 

[tims4wins]

Cabot keeps doubling down on her thinking that the Pats would trade Jimmy if the right deal was presented.

"Expect the Browns to go back to the Patriots and try again today. They have plenty of ammunition to pull it off, and I'm told the Patriots would do it if the price is right. Are the Browns willing to meet their demands?"

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/browns_buzz_on_trading_for_jim.html

See I'm not sure this is true any more - the part about enough ammo. They have the 52nd pick today, then a pair of firsts and three seconds next year. But if I am the Pats I demand the 52nd pick plus both firsts next year, and I don't see Cleveland giving up both of their firsts. So while they technically have enough ammo, I doubt they would want to use it all. Wonder if BB would go for 52 + a first next year + a pair of seconds next year. I'd want Cleveland's first next year, not Houston's.

 

[bankshot1]

If "not enough", leads to the Browns coming back again today, the Pats should ask for a shit-load.

Seeing that the Browns don't have this year's #1 to trade, their '18 #1 has to be on the table (and should be discount-15%-20%), plus a 2 and 3 tonight doesn't seem crazy given the Browns desire and what teams were trading last night for crap shoot QBs. IMO the Browns 18 #1 plus is key to get into the Darnold lottery, and address the Brady successor issue, or at least gives the Pats a ton of quality draft capital to spend.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The Browns have the 52nd, 65th, 145th 175th, 181st, 185th and 188th overall picks in this year’s draft. They also have their own and the Houston Texans’ first-round picks in 2018 and their own, Houston’s and the Philadelphia Eagles’ second-round picks next year. So, what would it take for the Patriots to finally say yes? Perhaps the 52nd overall pick this year, plus the Browns’ first-round pick and an additional second-rounder next year would do it? Maybe No. 52, No. 65 and the Browns’ 2018 first-rounder? Maybe a genie who could grant the Patriots three wishes including the right to wish for three more wishes?

http://nesn.com/2017/04/can-browns-still-land-jimmy-garoppolo-in-trade-with-patriots-this-year/

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

You really think think the Pats can get the same haul for Jimmy G that Brady got at birth?

I think there was a big star overhead in the deal as well

 

[tims4wins]

http://nesn.com/2017/04/can-browns-still-land-jimmy-garoppolo-in-trade-with-patriots-this-year/

See I don't think any of those are enough. Maybe 52 + Browns first next year + Browns second next year + Philly or Houston second

or

52 + 65 + Browns first next year + one of their other second rounders next year

 

[E5 Yaz]

I think there was a big star overhead in the deal as well

The ox and sheep kept the point chart

 

[bakahump]

Well yea....curran is being an ass.

"Yea we dont want to trade him"
"comeone, Please how about for our 1st"
"NO. Really"
"COMMME ON our 2nd, 3rd and next years 1st!"
"NO Jesus...NO!"
"How about our 2nd and 3rd this year and our 1st and houstons 1st and 2nd Next year and our 2019 2nd"
"When would you like him?"

No one on the planet would tell a team to "screw". They might still constantly downplay the possibility. But there is ALWAYS a possibility.

 

[dcmissle]

Or maybe the five years at reasonable rates carries a higher value than we are properly assessing and the prospect of paying to only the acquisition cost but also a market rate contract was deemed prohibitive enough that teams were willing to offer more to move up than they were for JG.

Or maybe BB overplayed his hand. Or maybe Don Yee told BB that JG would never resign in Cleveland.

Or maybe a dozen other things. I don't recall anyone (at least not a lot of people) citing the "stupidity of other teams" as why he wasn't traded, but maybe you could correct me on that with a quote.

Some of us have certainly questioned whether it was worth one year of a backup to turn down future value. I don't see how that's an unreasonable question, when the only answer one can come back with is "what if Brady gets hurt, he's 40 years old ya know?'.

Beyond that one season of control, the questions become how long you think Brady will play, how long you think JG is willing to wait, how much will it cost to keep him on the bench, etc, etc.

But again, please cite the poster that stated he hasn't been traded because "other teams are stupid".

Where you been? I'll be specific. Take a look at the day 1 draft thread. Right after it broke yesterday morning that there was a good chance Cleveland would take Trubisky at 1. By my count the 16th post in the thread. "You would think some team ... teams infatuated with unknown talent."

I am not going to name the poster, because it's been the backdrop here for weeks. Because anyone not mentally impaired can see that the Pats MUST Trade JG, and because the Pats are never idiots, other teams ISO quarterbacks must be idiots.

Schefter has been saying for weeks JG is not going to be dealt. He must be an idiot too.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Doug Kyed‏Verified account @DougKyed 2h2 hours ago
Looking forward to retirement 40 years from now, sitting on a rocking chair hearing how the Browns are still trying to trade for Jimmy G.