2017 NBA offseason thread
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Howard BeckVerified account @HowardBeck 2m2 minutes ago
Source: LeBron is "disappointed" at Griffin's departure, as well as the timing, & "concerned" abt what this portends for Cavs going forward.
Source: LeBron is "disappointed" at Griffin's departure, as well as the timing, & "concerned" abt what this portends for Cavs going forward.
Sam AmicoVerified account @AmicoHoops 12m12 minutes ago
Sources tell AmicoHoops ex-#Cavs GM Griffin had been exploring several trades centered on Kevin Love. Those talks remain ongoing.
Sources tell AmicoHoops ex-#Cavs GM Griffin had been exploring several trades centered on Kevin Love. Those talks remain ongoing.
It's always a great idea to fire your GM and your VP of basketball operations right before the draft and free agency.
I don't think he wanted him gone, Gilbert is a nutjob who has a weirdly contentious relationship with LeBron. SHOULD they have consulted him.... yes. Did they... I doubt it. If they had LeBron wouldn't have leaked to Beck and Windhorst.
It's fun to joke that LeBron is the real GM etc. but he and Gilbert have a shitty relationship that has gotten worse as time goes on, this seems like a classic bad owner "I"M IN CHARGE" move.
It might be a good gamble for Chicago to ask for Clevelands '19, '20 first round picks for Butler. They could be lottery picks.
I think at the very least LeBron had no problem with canning Griffin; I think it is extremely likely that this is all LeBron's doing. I think it's the only way it makes real sense.
LeBron still hates Gilbert. They have no relationship and LeBron didn't mention his name once when they won the title.
Why? Dan Gilbert has always been a bad owner who got insanely lucky. Also if LeBron wanted Griffin gone he (unlike Gilbert) is smart enough to know that firing your GM in arguably the most important stretch of the season is a terrible idea.
LeBron had a much better relationship with Griffin than Gilbert and a few months ago was advocating for him to get extended. LeBron didn't force this, Gilbert did it because he's an egomaniac.
They already traded their 19' pick for Korver.
The Cavs also put a Top 10 protection on it, so they are already covering all their bases and planning as if a Lebron departure is a real possibility.
This does make me wonder what happens with the 2020 pick though. Is that tradeable? Since the 19' pick potentially rolls over to 20' because it's protected. (And I believe there's protections on 20' as well)
Gets pretty confusing, but either way, I don't think they'll have much in terms of picks to tempt the Bulls.
When Cleveland lost the finals you knew something was going to change in Cleveland; maybe it was going to be Love, maybe it was going to be Lue, it ended up being Griffin. You guys are running around wondering why Cleveland would do something so drastic when the answer is that they are very alarmed with the idea of LeBron leaving soon; and LeBron needed something to change in Cleveland. The result is that James probably didn't feel that Griffin did a good enough job to surround him with enough talent to beat GS, so it was time to go in another direction. I find it impossible that he wasn't at least consulted on it, and I don't care at all what Fat Jonah Hill reported that may indicate otherwise.
Sure, it makes sense if you ignore all the evidence we have and everything we know about how the relationships in that organization have worked over the last few years, in service of a fantasy you have.
I take all of Windhorst's reporting with a grain of salt but everything coming out of Cleveland the last few years suggested Griffin had full support of Lebron and his inner circle whereas the relationship with Gilbert was (or is) still extremely contentious. I also find it hard to believe that Lebron had lost faith in Griffin's ability since many of the deals were done at the behest of James himself.
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Do we really have definitive evidence about what went down with Griffin getting the axe though? We just have the typical scuttlebut that surrounds the NBA during the offseason. I don't deny that James and Griffin had a good relationship and they still might even be very close and good friends; I think for sure that James knew about Griffin getting fired and at the very least he could have stopped it from happening; it's more likely that he supported it.
Kevin Arnovitz on Zach Lowe's podcast floated an interesting trade where players being sent to Indiana would be expiring contracts like Bradley and Smart along with a future Cs own first rounder or the Memphis conditional pick. Ainge would also need to add another player or two to make the trade work under the cap though.
He also commented about how other teams are hoping the Lakers trade for George. George then spends a year as a Laker and realizes how bad the team is without a lot of help on the horizon and elects to sign elsewhere as a FA.
Chad FordVerified account @chadfordinsider 2m2 minutes ago
Sounds like Lakers are dangling D’Angelo Russell in effort to get another Top 12 pick. Luke Kennard & Zach Collins appear to be targets
Sounds like Lakers are dangling D’Angelo Russell in effort to get another Top 12 pick. Luke Kennard & Zach Collins appear to be targets
Lesson to all of us about falling in love with a high draft pick. Same with pretty much every recent high pick from the Lakers and Sixers.
Please no Paul George rental. We were in the ECF this past year, and we don't have much hope of winning the championship next year, even with him on the roster. If he isn't willing to come to the table and agree on an extension as part of the trade, then save our assets for something that can provide us with real future benefit.
Does this sound like someone who went along with Gilbert's decision?
LeBron JamesVerified account @KingJames 11m11 minutes ago
If no one appreciated you Griff I did, and hopefully all the people of Cleveland! Thanks for what u did for the team for 3 yrs! We got us 1
LeBron JamesVerified account @KingJames 11m11 minutes ago
If no one appreciated you Griff I did, and hopefully all the people of Cleveland! Thanks for what u did for the team for 3 yrs! We got us 1
Et tu, Brute.Does this sound like someone who went along with Gilbert's decision?
LeBron JamesVerified account @KingJames 11m11 minutes ago
If no one appreciated you Griff I did, and hopefully all the people of Cleveland! Thanks for what u did for the team for 3 yrs! We got us 1
Sorry, I just can't buy the "we have no chance" excuse. For such a minimal price I take a shot.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Cs are also trying to sign Hayward, isn't impossible- from a salary cap perspective - for the Cs to get him for anything less than Bradley and Crowder. I mean, they need to unload enough in salary to account for PG's salary. If so, that's hardly a minimal price..
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Since the Cavs have already traded their first round pick in '17 and '19, I don't believe that they can trade another until their '21 first rounder per the Stepien rule.
The only chance any team has - barring injuries - is when Klay Thompson and/or Draymond Green have their contracts expire and they go elsewhere. The Celtics paled in comparison to the Cavs, who paled in comparison to the Warriors. Quite frankly if Rondo doesn't get hurt, they likely don't even make it out of the first round. PG isn't bridging the gap. Retain all assets and shoot for the window in 3 years.
This is so stupid and so ridiculous. What's the likely answer? Gilbert is a psycho, who spite fired an employee because he knew it would anger Lebron or Lebron wanted a guy he liked and was a fan of fired b/c the guy couldn't compile a roster to beat the best team of all time?
Cleveland did everything in their power this year and it almost worked, but they lost to one of the best rosters in the history of basketball. But you see Boogeymen. Why?
That's pretty amazing. The guy just can't help himself.
Edit-
now Lebron is subtweeting Gilbert. I didn't buy the "he might leave" stuff before, but now..... I think he's leaving.
Edit-
now Lebron is subtweeting Gilbert. I didn't buy the "he might leave" stuff before, but now..... I think he's leaving.
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Although I don't think a cash in and go for it now move is a good idea, I think people are overstating the gap between Boston and Cleveland. In addition to an injured IT, Cleveland was on fire shooting in Boston series, especially Kevin Love. While some of that is defense, he was ice cold versus GS except for the one game they won. If Love is just a bit more normal (or not there) then I think there's a chance there's a real series there regardless of who replaces him
Windhorst on Mike and Mike said Griffin convinced Phoenix to take on Kevin Love for the #4 pick and he was shopping that pick around to see what he could get for it before he was fired.
Agreed. Also I disagree with the view that it's likely the Cs lose to Chicago if Rondo doesn't get hurt. Maybe the series goes seven but the Celtics were clearly the superior team, Rondo or not.
He said the rumor was that it was Phoenix, but that it was a lottery team.
If I'm Gilbert and I think LeBron is leaving after the season does anyone else think he should put LeBron on the block? You can't lose him for nothing.
I doubt LeBron wants to strip a team of assets in a trade and lose a year of being competitive. Not sure there's a team he waives the no trade clause for
You're calling me ridiculous and then say that the more likely scenario is that the owner is a "psycho" who intentionally hurt his team to show his best player he is in charge, which would surely lead to said player leaving the franchise? You don't think that is a crazy idea too?
Got to agree with this. In the past 38 seasons there have been just 2 championship teams (the 1990 and 2004 Pistons) who did not have a guy on the roster who had been a top 3 player in the league that year or previously (using VORP as the measure of Top 3). Those Pistons teams had Isiah Thomas (the obnoxious one) and Ben Wallace respectively who each peaked at 4th (Thomas in '85 and Wallace in '04). (The '89 Pistons had Dantley who had finished Top 3 in '81). Moreover, the only teams this century to have won a title without a player who had been #1 in VORP during that season or previously was that '04 Pistons team plus the '09 and '10 Lakers (Kobe peaked at #3 in '08 and Gasol peaked at 5th).
Maybe Jimmy Butler can join and be that man that puts them over the top (he was 5th this year) but somehow that seems a long-shot against Curry/Durant/Green/Igoudala.
Incidentally, the VORP stat is calculated on basketball-reference.com back to the '74 season. Before Westbrook won it this year only 4 of the 17 players who have ever led the league in VORP failed to win a championship that year or subsequently:
- Bob Lanier ('75)
- Grant Hill ('97)
- Karl Malone ('98)
- Steve Francis ('01)
The point of all this? A great team isn't good enough. You need a great team led by a player who can credibly claim to have been the best player in the league.
Or be from Detroit...
You don't think he'd put the Celtics over the top? No idea how that would work, but I'd think there'd be plenty of talent around him, much deeper than his current team.
The problem with the Celtics trading for LeBron is that to match salaries you have to deal a lot of that depth, or you have to deal Horford.
LeBron is on tap to make 33,285,709. Even if you clear his salary, the Cavs can only take on $5 million without going back over the cap. So even if the Celtics can take on LeBron without being over the cap (also difficult), you still have to match salaries. As well, what's the point for Gilbert, other than being insane, to pay luxury tax without LeBron? (Yes, I understand the "get something for him" aspect, and yes, sure, you might also have a fire sale and clear Love and Thompson for a reset)
LeBron is on tap to make 33,285,709. Even if you clear his salary, the Cavs can only take on $5 million without going back over the cap. So even if the Celtics can take on LeBron without being over the cap (also difficult), you still have to match salaries. As well, what's the point for Gilbert, other than being insane, to pay luxury tax without LeBron? (Yes, I understand the "get something for him" aspect, and yes, sure, you might also have a fire sale and clear Love and Thompson for a reset)
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Gilbert is a psycho, though. That's on record, considering some of the things he's done. And he probably knows Lebron is leaving after 2018. So he's throwing jabs, because he's a petty, Steinbrenner-esque jerk.
The only way LeBron would land with the C's is if he opts out and signs as a free agent. And that's not happening.
Edit- to add some more insight: LeBron runs that franchise and Gilbert isn't happy about it. And Gilbert can't trade LeBron. He would never be allowed to walk the streets of Cleveland again. It would be an insane move that hurts the value of his franchise. He'd have to be a special kind of crazy to pull that off, and I don't think he's quite there.
