I dont know if Id call him a wasting asset. He provides value next year backing up a 40 year old quarterback and providing insurance against a 40 year old quarterback. There's a reasonable chance they could go the Cassel route and get some value next offseason (or a comp pick). I dont know if the Pats move him this offseason, but I would guess they dont do it without a 1st rounder being involved.
2017 NFL draft discussion/mock drafts
- Thread starter soxhop411
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Less a wasting asset than Bradford, who was still officially the starter, no? To me this understates JG's value: we saw what Goff and Wentz were worth. Granted there are fewer years of control, but JG is a ready to roll starter -- I'd put his value as between what Bradford and Wentz fetched.
Pats are better off with an excellent backup to Brady (and insurance if he falls off a cliff) than a 2nd/3rd round pick package. I only trade JG if there's an excellent pick package and/or if they're convinced Brissett is the real deal.
Pats are better off with an excellent backup to Brady (and insurance if he falls off a cliff) than a 2nd/3rd round pick package. I only trade JG if there's an excellent pick package and/or if they're convinced Brissett is the real deal.
Feeling pretty old when there are now collegiate athletes named after Wu Tang Clan members.
The other day Greg Bedard said if Schefter is reporting information about NE it came directly from Jonathan Kraft. Patriots use him to get info out and Schefter goes to Jonathan as his Patriot source.
I'd be okay with picks #33 + 51 being the return for JG, but I can absolutely see the Pats saying they want CLE's second 1st round pick. There aren't many free agent options out there, and what top QB is going to want to sign up to play for that Browns team? No one. The draft doesn't have a surefire franchise QB, either. You're looking at a year or two of development time, at least, for any of these guys coming out.The trade options outside of JG are pretty bleak: mostly older guys like Romo, Cutler, Palmer, or an unproven, overpaid guy in Osweiler.
If you're the Browns and you see JG as a ready-to-go starter who they can build around for the long-term, would you think about giving up that #9 pick? It's certainly something they've got to think about. They could leave the draft with an elite pass rusher at #1 (M. Garrett), a starting QB in Garoppolo, and address needs at OL, DB, WR with picks 33/51/65. That would be an impressive haul.
According to the NFL draft chart, #33 + #51 is equal to #18 + #112 (9th pick in 4th round)
If the 2nd CLE pick remains at #10, I could formulate the following:
Jimmy G + #32 (590) for #10 (1300) + #65 (265), which would be roughly equal to the Jimmy G for #33 (580) + #51 (390) trade proposal.
Also, if McDaniels were to become the HC of JAX, I could also see a Jimmy G for #36 (540) + #68 (250) + 2018 2nd or 3rd round pick.
Jimmy G + #32 (590) for #10 (1300) + #65 (265), which would be roughly equal to the Jimmy G for #33 (580) + #51 (390) trade proposal.
Also, if McDaniels were to become the HC of JAX, I could also see a Jimmy G for #36 (540) + #68 (250) + 2018 2nd or 3rd round pick.
I'll give $100 to the Jimmy Fund if Jimmy G. nets a first round pick. Payment due on the day the trade is made.
My first choice with the first pick would be Derek Barnett from TN if he slips or even to trade up for him. - nice rich mans Mike Vrabel type with good positional flexibility and general lack of weaknesses. Also would be ok with Zach Cunningham from Vandy as an upgrade to Roberts and a sort of late Collins replacement (but wouldn't trade up for him like Barnett)
If Dante somehow leaves though I'd be in favor of Ramczyk from Wiscy or Feeney from Indy.
if both Dante and McDaniels stay, I'd love Mccaffrey as both a KR and PR and use his flexibility at WR as well as RB. I'm confident Mcd BB and Brady can put his talents and intangibles to good use. I don't think he'd mind not being a starter if meant playing with Brady. Also can see Edelman being a good tutor for him. And then have Cyrus concentrate on CB only.
Then hope you can get a pick for White.
If Dante somehow leaves though I'd be in favor of Ramczyk from Wiscy or Feeney from Indy.
if both Dante and McDaniels stay, I'd love Mccaffrey as both a KR and PR and use his flexibility at WR as well as RB. I'm confident Mcd BB and Brady can put his talents and intangibles to good use. I don't think he'd mind not being a starter if meant playing with Brady. Also can see Edelman being a good tutor for him. And then have Cyrus concentrate on CB only.
Then hope you can get a pick for White.
Why would one care about a rookie's mindset on his role? Do you think a late first is going to hold out because he's not guaranteed a starting role? How many are? This is to say nothing of how bad a waste it would be when there are much more pressing needs to address.
Well, this particular player is making headlines for sitting out a bowl game to maximize his chances. I do agree that it's not an area of need.
He hasn't declared yet, but I think he will. If/when he does he'll get overdrafted, even as high as the mid teens by someone like Indianapolis with the Miami Hurricanes ties(Pagano, Chudzinski), but TE David Njoku would make a lot of sense. Patriots can have a wealth at tight end in front of him next year(Gronk, Marty B.) as a rookie, and have better answers for the years following. Very raw talent and incredible athleticism, but is undersized at 6'4" for TE. So...potentially picture Vernon Davis with the ability to play receiver out of the slot.
WR Rokeem Williams of Miami (OH) has Troy Brown for an uncle. Not a 1st round pick, but could be a nice fit as another potential deep threat.
WR Rokeem Williams of Miami (OH) has Troy Brown for an uncle. Not a 1st round pick, but could be a nice fit as another potential deep threat.
So you think the guy that sat out a bowl game to help mitigate risk of injury and prevent sliding in the draft were to be picked in the first round with a big guarantee, would be upset with what his expected role would be on said drafting team and forgo signing in order to either go back to college for another season and play thirteen more games risking injury or just flat sit out and hope he gets drafted as high to a team that promises him the position and playing time he wants?
Yeah, good call.
Wasting asset from the standpoint of moving him -- now until the 2017 draft is the time to max trade value.
Of course, he has value as a back-up to a 40 year old QB. A lot of value, potentially season-saving value, and I would weigh that significantly. But then you are in comp pick territory after the 2017 season, when he is off his contract. And that may be the best outcome for us.
Edit. These are the franchise and transition tag numbers for 2016. They will go up next year and, one assumes, in 2018 as well, when JG would be an unrestricted free agent.
Quarterback: $19,953,000 $17,696,000
The transition tag gets you bupkis -- a right to match, which the Pats would never do if JG has the value everyone believes.
Franchising a back-up at these levels -- probably close to $27 million by 2018 -- out of the question. That tag would be applied only if the Pats intended to move on from Brady that season.
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Yes, in 2009 with the tag valued at $14+ million. They then traded him to the Chiefs for the second pick in the second round, #34, which reflects everyone knowing that the Pats wouldn't be paying him that money if Brady were healthy.
So, too, here. The franchise number for QBs will rise from $19+ MM in 2016 to a reported $24+ million in 2017. When JG is up and the time arrives, one can imagine the 2018 franchise tag carrying $28 million in guaranteed money. You're not paying a back-up that, and everyone knows it. And if you're JG, you sign that tender in a heartbeat, just as Cousins did this year and will next year if Washington tags him again.
So, too, here. The franchise number for QBs will rise from $19+ MM in 2016 to a reported $24+ million in 2017. When JG is up and the time arrives, one can imagine the 2018 franchise tag carrying $28 million in guaranteed money. You're not paying a back-up that, and everyone knows it. And if you're JG, you sign that tender in a heartbeat, just as Cousins did this year and will next year if Washington tags him again.
Jake Butt reportedly suffered an ACL tear last night. Wonder how this impacts his draft stock. Could see the Pats taking advantage, especially if they acquire an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick.
I wonder if the Patriots take a look at all at Dan Skipper out of Arkansas. Second team all pro left tackle, who probably projects more as an NFL RT. Probably an early third day type of guy, but he's 6' 10". Given Belichick's love of tall tackles and some time with Scar, I could see him being a worthy risk around the 4th or 5th round.
Does Belichick love tall tackles? Solder and Vollmer are very tall, but Light, Cannon, and Nick Kaczur are towards the shortish side.
FWIW, I think tackle height is wildly overrated, with length also being somewhat overrated.
This is a bit of a hot take influenced by recent bowl games...but if you were an NFL coach or GM under pressure to turn things around would you want to bet all the chips - basically your own job - on Trubitsky, Watson, or Kizer? I don't see Watson as a successful NFL starter at all. The other two have potential but are clearly projects. None are going to help you in year one.
Confirmed
“@AdamSchefter: Michigan TE Jake Butt tore his ACL during Friday night’s Orange Bowl loss and will need to undergo surgery, per source close to school.”
He also has insurance
“@darrenrovell: Butt has a $2 million loss of value policy that he will begin to collect on if he slips beyond the 2nd round. https://t.co/Cxt6o6arQe
I've always wondered, who are the guys/ladies who underwrite these policies? It must be a fun job, reading sports news and talking with scouts.
Top 12 draft order:
1 CLE
2 SF
3 CHI
4 JAX
5 LA (traded to TEN)
6 NYJ
7 SD
8 CAR
9 CIN
10 BUF
11 NO
12 PHI (traded to CLE)
1 CLE
2 SF
3 CHI
4 JAX
5 LA (traded to TEN)
6 NYJ
7 SD
8 CAR
9 CIN
10 BUF
11 NO
12 PHI (traded to CLE)
2nd CLE pick is #12. I would update the above proposal as follows: Jimmy G + #64 (270) for #12 (1200) and CLE's first 4th round comp pick (#139 est. - 36.5), which would be roughly equal to the Jimmy G for #33 (580) + #51 (390) trade proposal.
Note to self: if NE wins Super Bowl, would have 1(32), 2(64), 3(96), 3(103)*, 4(135)**, 5(165/DEN), 5(184)***, 7(DET) without taking into effect any potential trades.
*Comp pick from CLE (assumes 7 of 9 of 3rd round comp picks)
**Lower of SEA/NE 4th round picks (other pick is forfeited; also, NYG pick moved down 10 picks behind NE)
***Comp pick (assumes 7 of 8 of 5th round comp picks)
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We can pretty much guarantee that BB trades that second 5th for a slide down into the 6th round, along with a 2018 5th rounder.
Mix it up like I do and also think of a couple of boobs: the Ryan brothers or the Harbaughs
Top 20 picks set
Titans get No. 5 from LA in the Goff deal
Browns add No. 12 from Eagles in the Wentz deal
Eagles add No. 14 in the Bradford deal
So, Philadelphia drops two spots in this year's first round and got Wentz out of it. Not bad, as far as this first round part of it matters
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/227216/2017-nfl-draft-order-set-for-top-20
Titans get No. 5 from LA in the Goff deal
Browns add No. 12 from Eagles in the Wentz deal
Eagles add No. 14 in the Bradford deal
So, Philadelphia drops two spots in this year's first round and got Wentz out of it. Not bad, as far as this first round part of it matters
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/227216/2017-nfl-draft-order-set-for-top-20
Look at Oakland and Houston. Can we not trade away our very good back up QB? And, really, we're not getting a first for Jimmy. I'll reiterate my bet here - $100 to the Jimmy Fund if it happens.
TJ Watt declared today and I can see BB/Patricia loving him if they look to add an edge player in the late first or second round. He played OLB for Wisconsin but he has the frame (6'5 245 right now) to add a few pounds and be a guy who can do a lot of different things - line up as a 4-3 DE with his hand in the dirt or as a standup OLB, rush the passer or drop into coverage, etc. He obviously comes from a football family, which BB always likes. And he also has a lot of room to improve given that he only started playing defense recently.
So it seems like Hunter Renfrow has replaced (or in addition to) McCaffrey as the player everyone is linking to the pats on the draft day. Though as we all know, which players the patriots normally pick on draft day are rarely linked to them from the start
Edit: Including the governor of Kentucky
Edit: Including the governor of Kentucky
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Is there any reason for that other than laziness because he's a white WR that plays in the slot?
If you're the Browns, taking Garrett at #1 and trading #12 and #51 or #65 for Jimmy G, who has one year left on his rookie deal, seems like a pretty nice option.
If they can find a way in or near the top 10, I would love to see the Pats go after OJ Howard to plug in as a Bennett replacement.
There are a number of good TE prospects this year. I'm not sure I want to use a top 10 pick on a guy who didn't produce all that much in college. I know he wasn't utilized properly, but I'd rather go with a DL or LB if we get a top 12 pick. Someone like Howard's college teammate Reuben Foster, for example.
Guys like David Njoku from MIA, Bucky Hodges from VaTech, Jake Butt from Mich and Jordan Leggett from Clemson are all projected to go in the first 2-3 rounds, so there is not only quality at the top but depth, as well.
I like Leggett a lot especially at 3 (or later) if they can go OL and front seven in the first 2 picks
Daniel Jeremiah, by far the best big network draft analyst IMO, released another mock draft and top 50 players this week.
A couple interesting things from a Patriots perspective:
QBs - Jeremiah has Kizer 18th in his top 50 and Trubitsky and Watson at 31 and 32. Essentially, he is strongly on the side of a QB taken in the top 10 being a big reach in terms of talent and in his mock draft he has only Watson taken in the first round by a QB needy team (Bills at 10, Trubitsky goes later to the Giants). Whether teams see it this way or not is totally unclear, but Jeremiah is pretty plugged in and this obviously would be a good scenario in terms of JG's value.
DBs - Jeremiah has 10 CBs and 4 S among his top 50 players and the DB class seems to run even deeper than that. Another piece he did talking to five NFL execs had three of them saying that CB was the deepest overall position in the draft and another voting for S. If we do end up losing Harmon, Ryan, or both in free agency, this is going to be a good draft to address those needs and that may factor a bit into overall strategy.
A couple interesting things from a Patriots perspective:
QBs - Jeremiah has Kizer 18th in his top 50 and Trubitsky and Watson at 31 and 32. Essentially, he is strongly on the side of a QB taken in the top 10 being a big reach in terms of talent and in his mock draft he has only Watson taken in the first round by a QB needy team (Bills at 10, Trubitsky goes later to the Giants). Whether teams see it this way or not is totally unclear, but Jeremiah is pretty plugged in and this obviously would be a good scenario in terms of JG's value.
DBs - Jeremiah has 10 CBs and 4 S among his top 50 players and the DB class seems to run even deeper than that. Another piece he did talking to five NFL execs had three of them saying that CB was the deepest overall position in the draft and another voting for S. If we do end up losing Harmon, Ryan, or both in free agency, this is going to be a good draft to address those needs and that may factor a bit into overall strategy.
Interesting draft nuggets here -- plus a lot of Patriots talk after that.
Key note for me: Draft appears light on offensive linemen. In Dante We Trust
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/02/10/nfl-draft-depth-talent-prospects-notebook
Key note for me: Draft appears light on offensive linemen. In Dante We Trust
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/02/10/nfl-draft-depth-talent-prospects-notebook
