2018 Browns: We now have a dedicated thread. I'll give you a moment to let that sink in.

dbn

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The neo-Browns have existed for 19 seasons. In 17 of those seasons, they've had a losing record. Even in their two winning seasons, they were only 1-game and 2-games over 0.500. In those 19 seasons, they've averaged 4.6 wins; their median and mode wins per season are both 4.

Over the two most recent seasons they have gone 1-31.

So why should we discuss them? IMO, a confluence of reasons suffice.

First: they upgraded from Kizer to Taylor, and added Landry. Even more, though, I was reading this ESPN piece which points out how much draft capital they have this year. They are in an ideal position to improve over the coming years.

Second: they will almost certainly screw this up and it might be schadenfreudenly fun to game thread it.

What do you think? Is this the turn of the tide? Or are Browns gonna Browns?
 

TheYaz67

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I like it - its in the spirit of the old Knicks thread (RIP) which discussed their endless screw ups and quest to rise above .500 (last check, nope)....
 

dbn

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BFF (Browns Fun Fact): per ESPN.com, Punter Britton Colquitt and tight end Darren Fells are currently the only players aged 30 or older on the Browns' roster.

They're young and hungry!
 

dcmissle

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Third: they may have finally landed a competent GM. They have more money and draft ammo than God. Eventually, things turn.
 

kenneycb

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But their coach is still Hue Jackson, whose three seasons as a HC have vacillated between mediocre to one of the worst coaches in NFL history.
 

pappymojo

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I'm rooting for them, but mainly because they are my least hated team in the AFC North. I'm really interested to see how these teams with huge cap space navigate their rebuilds. This seems to still be a relatively new phenomenon. From a roster construction perspective, if you have excess salary space in one year that was rolled over from previous years, how do you use it wisely when most player contracts are for multiple years? Do you sign players to one or two year contracts as a way to use up your cap space? Do you front load contracts so that you give players a healthy bonus to sign with you, but if so, how do you ensure that the player doesn't stop trying once they've been paid their big payday?

I feel like this time last year, both the Jaguars and the Raiders had a lot of cap space. One improved their team and made the playoffs. The other regressed in magnificent fashion.

I can't say that I agree with what the Browns have done so far, trading for Landry on the free agent tag, trading for Tyrod Taylor. They have draft capital and they have salary capital, but that doesn't mean that they need to spend both now. To me, it's the two moves in conjunction with each other seem to contradict themselves. I believe Taylor's biggest flaw as a QB is that he waits and waits and waits for the long throw. Landry's greatest ability as a WR is to run quick short routes. He led the league in catches but only averaged 8.8 yards per catch. I'm not convinced that these two players complement each other.

Anyways, if I were the Browns (or the Colts, 49ers, Titans or the Jets) I would use my cap space to extend my home-grown young players and then I would supplement the roster following the Patriots model of acquiring players with one or two years left on their contracts only with the advantage that the Browns have more money to spend than the Patriots. For free agents, I would look to spend my draft capital on young cheap players and I would look to spend my salary capital on the middle class. I would also sign multiple players to one year deals and multiple players to two year deals in the hopes that they act as a short term bridge while we develop the rookies that we draft. Then after the short term contracts for the free agent signings are up, if they resign elsewhere, I would hope to land multiple comp picks over a two year period in a sense converting today's salary capital to draft capital tomorrow.

The Browns traded the first pick of the third round (65th overall) for Tyrod Taylor. Taylor is 28 years old, and is on the last year of his contract. While I don't think he's the correct QB for Landry I do like the contract in that there is hope that they may be awarded a comp pick if he signs elsewhere after this year is over. With that being said, however, after this trade, the Bills then signed AJ McCarron to a 2 year contract. It seems to me that the Browns would have been a lot better off retaining their draft pick and signing McCarron themselves. They could use that third pick to draft a third QB similar to how the Redskins drafted Cousins after drafting RGIII or to draft another lineman or something similar and they would probably still be in line for a future comp pick. I guess I just don't believe in Taylor.

The Browns traded a 2018 4th round pick and a 2019 7th round pick for Landry, which is much more palatable than the Taylor trade, but he's due $16 million this year and is expected to sign a big extension (which hasn't been announced yet). I almost think they might be better off keeping Landry on his one year deal for the year. At the end of the year, after they have worked with him for a year, they could potentially let him test the market as a free agent (similar to how the Patriots have handled some of their recent free agents (like Hightower)), with the hopes that they get an opportunity to re-sign him to a more affordable deal or put themselves in line for a comp pick. If they extend Landry now (which I expect them to do), I like the trade less. I like Landry as a player, but he is a slot receiver and I'm not sure that he is worth as much as he is going to be paid. Certainly, the Browns can afford to pay him a lot of money, but I just don't know that it is a good allocation of resources.

If he gets extended, the Landry deal strikes me as similar to the trade for Jaime Collins who the Browns signed to a four year $50 million dollar contract. I think that Collins, like Landry, is a very good player. I just don't know that from a resource-allocation point-of-view either Collins or Landry is the player you build your team around.

Anyways, I'm really curious to see how these teams build their rosters and how they turn out in a couple of years.
 

mauf

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Third: they may have finally landed a competent GM. They have more money and draft ammo than God. Eventually, things turn.
By all accounts, John Dorsey got run out of KC because Andy Reid thought Dorsey mismanaged the salary cap, but there are two sides to every story. The Reid/Dorsey rebuild has been tremendously successful, but the Chiefs never fell as far as the Browns have — even in their 2-14 season (2012, the year before Reid and Dorsey arrived) the Chiefs sent 5 players to the Pro Bowl.

David Caldwell’s turnaround of the Jaguars is probably the most promising parallel for Cleveland fans. It took 5 seasons for that effort to bear fruit. History strongly suggests, however, that Jimmy Haslem is neither as patient nor as hands-off as Shad Khan. That creates an incentive for Dorsey to eschew the slow-build strategy that worked for Jacksonville and try to replicate the quick turnaround he and Reid engineered in Kansas City — but I don’t think he has the talent on hand to pull that off.

It’s hard to evaluate the Landry and Taylor trades without knowing if Dorsey is implementing a 2-year plan or a 5-year plan. If he has the mandate to pursue the latter, then Landry and Taylor don’t matter — they are just here to sell seats in the near-term and will be long gone by the time the Browns are ready to contend. If Dorsey is pursuing a shorter-term fix, then I agree with @pappymojo — they are both unexciting pieces, and don’t fit particularly well with each other, such that it’s hard to see what Dorsey’s strategy is.
 

Bergs

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Dan Snyder-level horrible owner. I don't believe the Browns will ever compete as long as he runs that shitshow. My poor wife and her family are Browns fans, and they have been demoralized to the point my wife didn't watch a game last season. And she was a Sunday regular at the local Browns Backers bar for years.

My fondest memory of that scene was having Browns fans talking shit to me during the 2013 game with NEP down 26-14 with 2 minutes left. That's right, Browns fans talking shit. Mocking calls of "Oooo they have Brady...Oooo"...Mrs. Bergs was like "yeah, that's right, they have Tom Brady. Shut up!"...the rest is history.

 

InstaFace

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Third: they may have finally landed a competent GM. They have more money and draft ammo than God. Eventually, things turn.
Does any of that matter so long as their owner is still a meddling fool who thinks he knows football?

edit: Bergs makes the same point, only with video.

I'll add a similar story: I watched the 2010 Browns-Patriots game at Prof. Thoms, and had brought along one of the two diehard Browns fans I know. He spent the entire game being thoroughly confused, and we both wandered out of the bar in roughly the same amount of shock.
 

BuellMiller

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(Not disagreeing, of course), but I love how easy it is to say that the Browns are the least hated team in the AFC North. Really low bar to clear. Like saying Sebastian Shaw was the least annoying actor who ever played Anakin Skywalker. Or Spain was the least hated fascist country during WWII.
 

dcmissle

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Does any of that matter so long as their owner is still a meddling fool who thinks he knows football?

edit: Bergs makes the same point, only with video.

I'll add a similar story: I watched the 2010 Browns-Patriots game at Prof. Thoms, and had brought along one of the two diehard Browns fans I know. He spent the entire game being thoroughly confused, and we both wandered out of the bar in roughly the same amount of shock.
So the point of this thread is to mock a team that has almost no fans here and has been down and out for close to 20 years?

Ambitious undertaking.
 

dbn

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So the point of this thread is to mock a team that has almost no fans here and has been down and out for close to 20 years?

Ambitious undertaking.
I think the point of this thread should be whatever we make of it. Mock, cheer, observe, whatever. Whichever way, it's a team who's current situation should fill them with hap, yet their past portends that hap will be unfulfilled.

Let's have fun with it.
 

Rudy's Curve

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This cannot be true. If so, you don't get out much.
I guess I don't. Who else hates them? Charger fans for the Freezer Bowl? Old Oiler fans for the Jerry Glanville-Sam Wyche rivalry in the 80s? Raider fans for breaking Bo Jackson's hip?
 

Curt S Loew

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I guess I don't. Who else hates them? Charger fans for the Freezer Bowl? Old Oiler fans for the Jerry Glanville-Sam Wyche rivalry in the 80s? Raider fans for breaking Bo Jackson's hip?
You said "any degree". There are plenty of people I know(myself included) who have some degree of hatred due to the instances of dirty play that they have exhibited and have been "allowed" to exhibit by their coaching staff.
 

Super Nomario

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I think the point of this thread should be whatever we make of it. Mock, cheer, observe, whatever. Whichever way, it's a team who's current situation should fill them with hap, yet their past portends that hap will be unfulfilled.

Let's have fun with it.
"Current situation?" They went 0-16 last year.
 

bankshot1

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Shouldn't this thread title recall former Brown glory?

Something like,

The Proud Sons of Blanton Collier?

The Ancient and Honorable Cleats of Otto Graham?
 

DanoooME

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I think the point of this thread should be whatever we make of it. Mock, cheer, observe, whatever. Whichever way, it's a team who's current situation should fill them with hap, yet their past portends that hap will be unfulfilled.

Let's have fun with it.
Gonna do that with the other 30 teams while you're at it?
 

InstaFace

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So the point of this thread is to mock a team that has almost no fans here and has been down and out for close to 20 years?

Ambitious undertaking.
I'm not sure how you could have interpreted any of what I posted as mockery. Reasoned Browns fans, and I know a few, must confront what is in the realm of the possible as a result of their owner. I'd like to see them do better, and that starts by looking for signs that Haslam has empowered the right people and then, crucially, stepped out of the way.

Among the teams that finished bottom-half-of-the-league last year, the Browns are certainly among the handful that are the most interesting.
 

dcmissle

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Haslam is a relative Johnny-Come-Lately: the Lerners owned the Browns from 1999 through 2011. The stunning lack of success throughout comes as no great surprise — forget the QB churning, the FO changes would leave anyone permanently dizzy. Wasn’t the mighty Holmgren supposed to fix all this in 2009?

There is only one cure for a bad owner, I’ll grant you that. So hope Haslam has learned some things.
 

EricFeczko

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Haslam is a relative Johnny-Come-Lately: the Lerners owned the Browns from 1999 through 2011. The stunning lack of success throughout comes as no great surprise — forget the QB churning, the FO changes would leave anyone permanently dizzy. Wasn’t the mighty Holmgren supposed to fix all this in 2009?

There is only one cure for a bad owner, I’ll grant you that. So hope Haslam has learned some things.
So far, Haslam's first six seasons have been worse than the worst six of the Lerners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Browns_seasons

Oh, and it looks even worse if you try to weight it by recent years (4 wins in 3 years for a 4-44 record).

I feel bad for any Browns fans.
 

Cellar-Door

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General Browns thoughts:
Dorsey is there for the paycheck and security. No GM walks in and Keeps Hue Jackson and Gregg Williams if he wants to win, he does it if he plans to use firing them later as a way of keeping his own seat from getting warm.

Specific news:
The Browns traded away the most accurate QB in franchise history today.
 

dbn

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The Kessler era is over.

General Browns thoughts:
Dorsey is there for the paycheck and security. No GM walks in and Keeps Hue Jackson and Gregg Williams if he wants to win, he does it if he plans to use firing them later as a way of keeping his own seat from getting warm.

Specific news:
The Browns traded away the most accurate QB in franchise history today.
You beat me to it.
 

SMU_Sox

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No one knows who the Browns are going to take at #1. Maybe they don't even know yet. The rumors are that they will take a QB at #1 and it is either Josh Allen or Sam Darnold. It's silly season - you can't trust any rumors. Browns fans though are freaking out. I don't blame them. Of all the QBs to take at #1... at least he should sit behind Tyrod Taylor. I do think the Browns will take a QB at #1. Surprising things happen of course but Cleveland and QB at #1 seems like a lock.
 

mauf

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No one knows who the Browns are going to take at #1. Maybe they don't even know yet. The rumors are that they will take a QB at #1 and it is either Josh Allen or Sam Darnold. It's silly season - you can't trust any rumors. Browns fans though are freaking out. I don't blame them. Of all the QBs to take at #1... at least he should sit behind Tyrod Taylor. I do think the Browns will take a QB at #1. Surprising things happen of course but Cleveland and QB at #1 seems like a lock.
Why do you think they traded for TT? I understand the desire to have a steady hand at QB in case the guy they draft needs a year to develop, but that’s a need they could have filled by spending money they have to spend anyway.

I think they should draft a QB, but I won’t be shocked if they deal the #1 pick, grab Barkley at #4, and roll with TT for a year. Or maybe they like Mayfield or Jackson as much or more than the blue-chip guys (though Mayfield will likely be a top-10 pick IMO.)
 

tims4wins

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The Browns have been picking leftover QBs all decade to poor results. This is a good QB draft and they're picking #1. Time to grab a guy and run with him. Anything else is too cute IMO.
I don't disagree, it all just comes back to which QB they like best and when they can get him. Like if Denver for instance wanted to jump to #1 and the Browns were convinced that Allen was their guy and would be there at 4, then I could see it
 

Super Nomario

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I don't disagree, it all just comes back to which QB they like best and when they can get him. Like if Denver for instance wanted to jump to #1 and the Browns were convinced that Allen was their guy and would be there at 4, then I could see it
Still too cute IMO (leaving aside one's opinion of Allen). No guarantees once you move back, especially with NYG a complete enigma at 2. And they already have a ton of draft capital; so what if they can pocket another two? Get your QB at 1; if you really want to add more picks, trade back from 4 to 12 or whatever.
 

SMU_Sox

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If John Dorsey doesn't draft a QB with his first pick of the draft (and it might not be at #1, who knows), I will donate whatever amount in dollars that the Browns have had as starting QBs since they expanded (back) into Cleveland. I think Tyrod Taylor offers them competency at the top and will provide a floor to develop a guy and that's what you want if you are taking a QB #1 even in a rebuild. I don't think Tyrod's presence has any impact on whether or not they choose a QB this year. The guys they are linked to the most, Darnold and Allen, are guys who need more development than say a Josh Rosen. I can't say enough about how highly I respected that move picking him up - I think that was a masterful move.

Also, to echo Super Nomario, why not just trade out of 4 if you want additional picks? Why potentially bungle the most important decision they have to make for the most important roster position?

Edit: $29.
 

Bergs

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I am so severely down on Sam Darnold's pro prospects it's hard for me to put into words. I have no doubt the Browns will pick him.
 

Super Nomario

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Good point about trading down from 4 instead. That makes a lot more sense for both say Buffalo and Cleveland
It's funny though ... I was just talking today about Buffalo and their interesting decision. I kinda think they should stay put and take a MLB or LT or something. Look at their offensive depth chart; it is a tire fire. After trading Glenn and Incognito and Wood retiring, their offensive line looks like a "preseason game 4" lineup. The receivers stink and there is zero depth. I pity the QB who gets thrown to the wolves there.

I am so severely down on Sam Darnold's pro prospects it's hard for me to put into words. I have no doubt the Browns will pick him.
Why?
 

sodenj5

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It's funny though ... I was just talking today about Buffalo and their interesting decision. I kinda think they should stay put and take a MLB or LT or something. Look at their offensive depth chart; it is a tire fire. After trading Glenn and Incognito and Wood retiring, their offensive line looks like a "preseason game 4" lineup. The receivers stink and there is zero depth. I pity the QB who gets thrown to the wolves there.


Why?

Roll Tide.
 

sodenj5

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Happy for Landry, the human. Dude grew up dirt poor and scratched and clawed his way to being a Pro Bowl receiver. He’s receiving a life changing amount of money for he and his family.

Also, very happy the Dolphins are not the ones handing him that contract.
 

Bergs

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I am so severely down on Sam Darnold's pro prospects it's hard for me to put into words. I have no doubt the Browns will pick him.
They outdid me. What a stupid fucking organization.