It's hard for me to believe that anyone who watched the NBA last year would prefer IT over Rozier
2018 NBA offseason thread
- Thread starter DJnVa
- Start date
I'm a big IT guy, but there's zero chance of that happening. He's cocky as shit and would immediately view this as 'his' team again. No way they want that presence in the locker room, especially during Kyrie's walk year - this is very much Kyrie's team. IT's attitude makes him great for his size, but I don't think he's capable of viewing himself as a complementary piece because of it.
You're joking, right?
Rozier is younger, cheaper, healthier, plays much better defense, can rebound, turns the ball over less and is trending up while IT is trending down.
Who would even sign him to that min deal? The list of teams who would be interested has to be very short if existent at all. Rebuilding teams have no use for a 5-8 guard with best years behind him while a contender doesn't really have use for a player not good enough to crack their rotation with his baggage. I said it last winter that he's going to have trouble finding a job in the NBA this year being stuck in the middle of a rock and a hard place.
Good point — he could easily be on an express train to Monta Ellis / Stephon Marbury / Steve Francis -ville. The NBA marketplace can be brutal on small, ball-dominant wannabe superstar guards with "baggage" who don't eagerly embrace a diminished role as they hit their 30s and their youthful quickness starts to fade. Jamal Crawford and Lou Williams are who a guy like IT should strive to be, but Jamal is 6'-6", and those guys have a well-earned rep for being two of the more easy-going and likable teammates in the league. Stockton and CP3 managed it ... but they're arguably the two best floor generals of all-time.
Will be an interesting next couple months for the guys on the cusp.
The Knicks, Nets and Pistons rolling the dice on a vet min deal for IT would be fun. He could be their microwave off the bench that could add excitement to a middling team. Does IT sell seats? Pistons need help there
Maybe the Rockets add his shooting off the bench. Plus CP3 will spend time on the DL.
For a vet min maybe even the Sixers roll the dice.
Not many options for our old friend.
Stockton and CP3 aren't remotely in the same category as IT. Aside from being two of the best pure PGs of the last 30 years, they are both 3-4 inches taller than IT and are/were excellent defenders (voted 1st or 2nd all defense a combined 14 times). IT is a scoring guard in the body of one of the smallest NBA players of all time, he's not in the same stratosphere as Stockton or Paul who are/were HOF PGs who happen to be smaller than most of their peers.
What's the offense/defense split of Booker's on/off? The hypothesis that he's been dragged down by bad team D would seem plausible if he improves offense but tanks the defense.
The IT situation feels like a breakup that needed to happen. You remember the good times, but you also thank God every time you think of what could have been had you stayed together.
The 'Zards could probably use IT on a make good contract if they had better management in place.
Perhaps I'm underselling Andrew Toney but I don't remember him being a good defensive player. There have to be teams that could fit Isaiah in for the last 3 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters and the first 3 minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters to do a heat check. If he's awful at the end of the 1st or 3rd, yank him. If he's hot, ride him.
I liked the little guy a lot. Real sorry to see the path his career has taken.
I liked the little guy a lot. Real sorry to see the path his career has taken.
This isn't a case of a player being a good defensive player as Toney could physically compete but todays offensive schemes exploit guys like Isaiah badly. He was awful defensively even when healthy and is now coming off a season cut short by a recurring hip injury in which he was also an awful OFFENSIVE player. His best chance at reinventing himself would be overseas ala Stephon Marbury but would his ego even allow for this?
No.
If he could still score the ball, then isn't he an ideal fit for the right kind of tanking team? Produce some offensive excitement for the fans while giving it all back on the other end, then (maybe) dealt to a contener that needs some bench offense?
That's exactly right. The Suns were 1.5 points/100 better offensively with Booker on the court, but 2.3 points/100 worse on defense.
Brook Lopez signs with Milwaukee for 1/$3.4M. In other words, a million less than they're paying Lance Stephenson.
This is exhibit A for why you don't lock up mediocre role players on the first day of free agency. I'm sure the Lakers wouldn't have thought they could get Lopez at that price, and he's a much better fit for their team.
This is exhibit A for why you don't lock up mediocre role players on the first day of free agency. I'm sure the Lakers wouldn't have thought they could get Lopez at that price, and he's a much better fit for their team.
Brook Lopez has his flaws and he's tough to play in some games because you can't really hide him on defense. That being said, he's a 7 footer that can knock down 3s and that's not easy to find. He'd have value on the second unit on a Lebron-led team. They are going to have major floor-spacing issues as constructed.
Looking over all the free agent deals it's almost unbelievable that the Lakers tied up $31 million of next year's cap on Javale McGee, Lance Stephenson, Rajon Rondo and KCP. That's such an uninspiring group and it's not like they were priced out in this down market. Look at all the players that were signed in the $4 to $12 million range that would have been better fits: JJ Redick, Julius Randle, Tyreke Evans, Avery Bradley, Joe Harris, Seth Curry, Ed Davis, etc. Another year of Lebron's prime wasted.
It was going to be a "rebuilding" year regardless of who the 1-year fillers are. The most important thing is that these were all 1-year deals. None of those names above move he needle. Most of that list seems handpicked by LeBron anyway.......especially KCP and Rondo.
Yea, while the LAL moves do seem weird, I am not sure what other options they had. They want to maintain max cap space for next year, and their current team, even with Lebron, is not good enough to attract anything but some flawed players willing to take one year deals. Sure, Lopez would help the Lakers, but he is not the difference between a early round playoff exit and a championship.
Randle and Bradley signed a two-year deal and LAL wasn't going to 2 years on anyone other than PG and Kawhi. Seth Curry was also a two-year deal (although I suppose if LAL wanted him for the sheer theatre, they could have given him 1/$5M. Reddick wasn't going anywhere.
Evans probably would have and frankly if I were running LAL I would have signed him over Rondo but LAL met with Evans and he ended up signing with IND for whatever reason.
I don't really think that any of these guys are going to substantially change LAL's fortunes next year.
So many moves are so bizzare.
Bulls matching and spurs not iidont really get either one. The opposite seemed smart on both!
The Mac contract is great for teams signing the very very best guys but it is a bit of a nightmare for the worth it guys.
He'd have significant value as the starter.
Have to say if THIS is want LeBron wants then phew have at it Lakers.
Bulls matching and spurs not iidont really get either one. The opposite seemed smart on both!
He's one of the worst defenders in league on some of the new metrics, as least he made a jump last year to make this possibly ok. He needs another to be a max guy.
The Mac contract is great for teams signing the very very best guys but it is a bit of a nightmare for the worth it guys.
The Lakers are absolutely stupid for not keeping Lopez. They have a car wreck at C and a guy who can play and space the floor to drag rim protection out would have been a better fit.
He'd have significant value as the starter.
Have to say if THIS is want LeBron wants then phew have at it Lakers.
NBA defense is as much as the other 4 guys on your unit than individual skills in today's switching and trapping game. Were there any Phoenix players who graded out plus defensively last year? Their rotations were non-existent......I have a hard time believing Booker is as awful as the other parts who were on the floor with him. That didn't pass the eye test to me when it was his teammates blowing assignments nearly every possession.
When you're a bottom feeder like Phoenix and Chicago with plenty of cap space and not a landing spot for any Max FA of worth you absolutely hold onto your young high upside guys who are your best offensive players as it isn't restricting you from adding other pieces......since no other pieces of worth are going to sign there and you still have to get to the salary floor anyway. It's like you are getting LaVine and Booker for free.
The thing about Devin Booker is that at 22 he's already an elite offensive player. It's not crazy to project him to add to his game, especially at the defensive end, but even if he doesn't he offers enough on one end of the floor to be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a playoff team. Of course it would be preferable to have him at $20 million a year instead of the max, but you aren't going to be able to sign him for that. Try to replace him on the free agent market with that money and you end up with even more of a disaster, like Zach Lavine.
The Spurs are as good as anyone with their cap and roster management, but it's very strange that they'd let a good young wing leave over what is just mid-level money. Then again, you could have said the same about Simmons last year and that looks like it will be a good decision ultimately.
But good for the Cs, who need LAC to make he playoffs either this year or next if they want to see that first round pick.
Dude this clipper team isn't making the playoffs this year. Maybe next year if they sign some big names. Maybe
A much better team than the clippers is gonna miss out in the west but you are right, you never know.
Houston is said to be in the market for Melo. As a Thunder fan, this is delicious. Melo going to the Rockets will make the Thunder better and the Rockets worse.
I'm not a big fan of Houston's off-season so far. Ariza and Mba a Moute are both versatile, switchable defenders that can also shoot a good percentage from three. You can't just find those guys digging around in the bargain bin. Plus, you need them to switch around and take the harder assignment with Harden, and an aging Chris Paul, on the roster. Part of what made them so good was their swichability on defense, particularly against Golden State when they go small.
Morey has definitely earned the benefit of the doubt based on what he's accomplished over the years, but I just don't see the logic in letting Ariza and Mbah a Moute walk to sign Carmelo Anthony. Their big breakthrough last year came on the defensive end and they are risking losing that to bring on another guy who wants the ball in his hands all the time.
My thinking too. I thought trading for Carmelo last year was a terrible idea for OKC, and I think this signing makes Houston a worse team.
They also seem to have pissed off Clint Capela with a low-ball offer, possibly alienating their one young rotation player to the point where he (reportedly) may take the QO and bolt next summer.
The CP3 supermax was probably inevitable, but man, the chances they'll be cool with paying him $45M when he's 37 seem slim.
Pretty much a sh*tshow of an offseason so far, imho, one that may get worse if they add Melo. The one bright spot so far may be the drafting of De'Anthony Melton, who's looking like a steal at #46.
The CP3 supermax was probably inevitable, but man, the chances they'll be cool with paying him $45M when he's 37 seem slim.
Pretty much a sh*tshow of an offseason so far, imho, one that may get worse if they add Melo. The one bright spot so far may be the drafting of De'Anthony Melton, who's looking like a steal at #46.
Morey and Pat Riley both interested, what do they see that the rest of us don’t? Signing Carmelo seems like classic subtraction by addition.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespnhttps://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1016761787583098880
Story filed to ESPN: In advance of an inevitable – if not imminent – parting, the Oklahoma City Thunder granted Carmelo Anthony permission to meet with prospective teams, including Houston and Miami. Meetings took place in Vegas in recent days.
I generally try to give GMs with as good track records as Morey's the benefit of the doubt, but this all seems bizarre. And not bizarre in a "ok, I guess Danny thinks Kyrie can do well in Brad's system" way, more of a "did Morey just not watch any OKC games?" kind of way.
I dunno. If Melo was willing to agree to a 6th man role, I think he'd be fine.
edit: about 25 minutes a night coming off the bench and getting most of his playing time against other bench players.
edit: about 25 minutes a night coming off the bench and getting most of his playing time against other bench players.
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He didn't seem interested at all in doing that for a pretty good OKC team. I think he's still delusional enough to think he's an elite player in the league.
We shouldn't ignore the change of ownership in Houston. The oddest offseason in Morey time with new ownership and interest in bad big names and none in defensive first players.
Hmmm.
Excellent take. The Rockets lost two glue pieces to their 6th best league defense after improving from 26th the previous season...….and may replace them with an aging Carmelo? Good lord this team is primed as anyone to underachieve this coming year.
They just lost Ariza and Mbah a Moute from their frontcourt while adding Joe Johnson......unless the Rocket plan on returning Ryan Anderson to the first unit you can pretty much count on Carmelo starting in the frontcourt as that would be a large part of their recruitment of him.
Because Houston would match and Jordan might sign elsewhere in the week during which Houston could've tied up Dallas' cap space.
Fair answers. Is there a number that Houston couldn't/wouldn't match? Or that has them matching and regretting because their entire cap is consumed by 3 guys?
Houston is smart and they've shown in the past that they'll let guys walk if the price is too high, as evidenced by not matching the Dallas offer to Chandler Parsons back in 2014. However, I just can't see them letting Capela walk, even if an offer came in at near-max money. Their defense is too dependent on him and they'd have no real way to replace him.
This is the difficulty of restricted free agency. The teams holding the rights have no incentive to sign sub-max guys early since they can let the market dictate their value and worst case they bring them back on a QO and retain Bird rights. However, teams with cap space can't risk tying their space to guys that they might not ultimately sign. On top of that, if you're making an offer to a restricted guy it almost has to be significantly above market value because anything less is likely to be matched. That's why restricted guys that do sign early are almost always perceived as having significant upside by the signing team (Exum and Lavine being current examples).
This is the difficulty of restricted free agency. The teams holding the rights have no incentive to sign sub-max guys early since they can let the market dictate their value and worst case they bring them back on a QO and retain Bird rights. However, teams with cap space can't risk tying their space to guys that they might not ultimately sign. On top of that, if you're making an offer to a restricted guy it almost has to be significantly above market value because anything less is likely to be matched. That's why restricted guys that do sign early are almost always perceived as having significant upside by the signing team (Exum and Lavine being current examples).
If Dallas really likes Capela, they may have played it well: get DJ as a one-year placeholder, then use his salary slot next summer to max out an unrestricted CC, who at age 25 will be a really nice fit both age-wise and positionally with Smith Jr. and Doncic.
Of course, that assumes CC is sufficiently pissed off at Houston's lowball offer to take the qualifying offer. I can see why he might be, being 24 and coming off a season in which he averaged 18.2 pts on .650 true shooting / 14.2 reb / 2.4 blk per 36 minutes, and outplayed Karl Towns and Rudy Gobert in the playoffs. 5/85 seems pointlessly tight-fisted for the prime age 24-28 years of your only young starter.
Of course, that assumes CC is sufficiently pissed off at Houston's lowball offer to take the qualifying offer. I can see why he might be, being 24 and coming off a season in which he averaged 18.2 pts on .650 true shooting / 14.2 reb / 2.4 blk per 36 minutes, and outplayed Karl Towns and Rudy Gobert in the playoffs. 5/85 seems pointlessly tight-fisted for the prime age 24-28 years of your only young starter.
