2018 NFL Draft Day Two Game Thread w spoilers

bsj

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Weird day one. I feel better about the picks than I did last night. Two big picks. I'd still flip if we could get Rudolph (who was probably my #2 qb) but I doubt he falls all the way to us.
 

BaseballJones

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NFL.com's top graded prospects in order still remaining...

DE Landry, BC
RB Guice, LSU
G Hernandez, UTEP
S Reid, Stanford
C Daniels, Iowa
RB Jones, USC
CB Jackson, Iowa
CB Davis, Auburn
DT Hurst, Michigan
TE Gesicki, Penn State
CB Oliver, Colorado
DE Green, USC
G Williams, Texas
WR Sutton, SMU
TE Goedert, S. Dakota State
DT Settle, Virginia Tech
WR Cain, Clemson
DE Carter, Georgia
WR Clark, LSU
S Bates, Wake Forest
DT Phillips, Stanford
S Moore, Southern Miss
WR Kirk, Texas A&M
RB Johnson, Auburn
CB Jackson, LSU
TE Thomas, Indiana
DE Hubbard, Ohio State
S Harrison, Alabama
OLB Leonard, S. Carolina State
WR Miller, Memphis
G Corbett, Nevada

The Pats have the 11th pick and the 31st pick in the 2nd round.
 

BaseballJones

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They don't have second round grade on Mason Rudolph?
They didn't grade by round. They just have a rolling list, with 20 guys per page. Rudolph is the 95th best prospect, according to NFL.com. That puts him in the late 3rd or early 4th round. I have NO idea how they did their grades. And I cannot see how Rudolph lasts that long. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the Pats take him in the 2nd round if he's available.

Here's the page he's on, but you can go to the bottom of the page to click on "previous" or "next":

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/allPositions?college=allColleges&page=5&status=ALL
 

amfox1

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ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 7m7 minutes ago
Patriots, 49ers are talking about a possible trade for San Fran OT Trent Brown, per source.

***

Trent Brown is rehabbing from a torn labrum, and is unlikely to be able to participate in on-field drills at an offseason workout program. Supposedly, Brown was out of shape at mini-camp.

Brown is a free agent after this coming year.

Apparently SF is seeking a mid 2nd
 

heavyde050

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ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 7m7 minutes ago
Patriots, 49ers are talking about a possible trade for San Fran OT Trent Brown, per source.

***

Trent Brown is rehabbing from a torn labrum, and is unlikely to be able to participate in on-field drills at an offseason workout program. Supposedly, Brown was out of shape at mini-camp.

Brown is a free agent after this coming year.

Apparently SF is seeking a mid 2nd
Apparently Brown showed up way out of shape and is due to get paid after this season. I really hope the Pats don’t trade the Jimmy pick for this guy.
And he is coming back from an injury that ended his season last year.
 

Mooch

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I'd trade the 3rd round pick for Brown. When healthy, he's a pro bowl caliber RT.
 

dcdrew10

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Thanks for posting. Yeah he is good when healthy; I was just hesitant of giving up a 2nd round pick.
Yeah, a second round pick might be a stretch, but Von Miller said Brown was the toughest tackle to deal with, though that was a couple years ago. Who knows what magic Dante can work, though I would be more worried about his weight and what sort of shape he would be in. A second round pick for a gamble on a guy who wasn't in shape before having season ending surgery and is on the last year of his contract seems a bit steep. Then again, Kony Ealy happened.
 

dcmissle

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Wings off mosquitoes; they’re getting an early start on the day. Add him, used the other second on a WR coming off microfracture surgery, and we’re good to go.

Door 1. Defense doesn’t matter anymore. Full stop.

Door 2. Everything we saw last season on D is a mirage.

Door 3. We’re already better. Organic growth. Really.

End of rant. Thanks for your patience.
 

pappymojo

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ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 7m7 minutes ago
Patriots, 49ers are talking about a possible trade for San Fran OT Trent Brown, per source.

***

Trent Brown is rehabbing from a torn labrum, and is unlikely to be able to participate in on-field drills at an offseason workout program. Supposedly, Brown was out of shape at mini-camp.

Brown is a free agent after this coming year.

Apparently SF is seeking a mid 2nd
Would you trade the 63rd pick for Brown plus a 4th or a 5th?
 

BaseballJones

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Wings off mosquitoes; they’re getting an early start on the day. Add him, used the other second on a WR coming off microfracture surgery, and we’re good to go.

Door 1. Defense doesn’t matter anymore. Full stop.

Door 2. Everything we saw last season on D is a mirage.

Door 3. We’re already better. Organic growth. Really.

End of rant. Thanks for your patience.
Defense matters. Many ways to skin a cat though. Let's not forget that Philly just won the Super Bowl playing some of the worst defense ever seen in a Super Bowl. 33 points allowed (4 on easy missed kicks were left off the board). A record number of yards and passing yards allowed. They won a major shootout and made just one or two defensive plays all game long. One more than the Patriots did, really.

But then again, Denver won a SB recently with basically nothing but defense. So it CAN matter. Who knows how much it matters. All depends on how the games go I guess. Still, I'd rather have a good defense than a bad one.

I don't think everything we saw last season on D was a mirage. They did play well for a good chunk of the year. But they had some significant problems. I also think the matchup was problematic. They struggled with Reid-style offenses, as has been well-documented in this forum. And Foles had the game of his life. And one of the touchdowns shouldn't have counted. But still. And maybe we're all feeling differently had Butler played. :mad::mad::mad:

And yes they should be better simply by adding Hightower, Clayborn, Shelton, McCourty, and Rivers. But I still want them to add more pieces yet.
 

Captaincoop

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I can live with the idea that the secondary and d-line might improve...but the linebacker situation is still a huge problem , even with the very generous stipulation that Hightower can be depended on to play all year.

But look at that list of draft grades above...maybe BB doesn't see any immediate help left in the draft pool.

Losing out on Evans was a gut punch.
 

dcmissle

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Thanks for your patience, really.

What’s wrong with Harold Landry at 43 — and if he’s taken before then, then a comp, or maybe you move up?
 

pappymojo

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Defense matters. Many ways to skin a cat though. Let's not forget that Philly just won the Super Bowl playing some of the worst defense ever seen in a Super Bowl. 33 points allowed (4 on easy missed kicks were left off the board). A record number of yards and passing yards allowed. They won a major shootout and made just one or two defensive plays all game long. One more than the Patriots did, really.

But then again, Denver won a SB recently with basically nothing but defense. So it CAN matter. Who knows how much it matters. All depends on how the games go I guess. Still, I'd rather have a good defense than a bad one.

I don't think everything we saw last season on D was a mirage. They did play well for a good chunk of the year. But they had some significant problems. I also think the matchup was problematic. They struggled with Reid-style offenses, as has been well-documented in this forum. And Foles had the game of his life. And one of the touchdowns shouldn't have counted. But still. And maybe we're all feeling differently had Butler played. :mad::mad::mad:

And yes they should be better simply by adding Hightower, Clayborn, Shelton, McCourty, and Rivers. But I still want them to add more pieces yet.
That's where I am at. The Patriots defense looked bad in the Super Bowl, but so did the Eagles defense. I think the way that game was officiated was an outlier. Plus, we added two significant pieces in Shelton and Clayborn and a lesser piece in the second McCourty. Plus, we have a number of guys returning from injury. Hightower is at the top of the list but lesser players missed significant time last year and may be ready to contribute. Plus, the team still has more draft capital this year than they had for all of last year's draft. Plus, we could add to through free agency and trades once the draft is complete.

Definitely want to add to the defense but there is time still.
 

BigJimEd

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Then again, Kony Ealy happened.
Can we get this straight? Patriots dropped down 8 spots (64 to 72) in the draft for Ealy. The equivalent to a 5th round pick. Why do people keep acting like they traded a 2nd straight up for him? It is not that difficult.



I'd take a hard pass at giving up a 2nd for Brown. If Denver wants to let them. Even a 3rd seems a little much for an unmotivated guy coming off any injury in the last year of his deal.
 

pappymojo

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Thanks for your patience, really.

What’s wrong with Harold Landry at 43 — and if he’s taken before then, then a comp, or maybe you move up?
My take on Landry is that he is a speed rusher with very little strength and very little ability to help in the run defense. I don't think he's a fit. I like Hubbard though.
 

Super Nomario

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I'd trade the 3rd round pick for Brown. When healthy, he's a pro bowl caliber RT.
Is he going to move to the left side? Is Cannon going to the bench? If he's that good, why did SF just use a premium pick to upgrade him?

That's where I am at. The Patriots defense looked bad in the Super Bowl, but so did the Eagles defense. I think the way that game was officiated was an outlier. Plus, we added two significant pieces in Shelton and Clayborn and a lesser piece in the second McCourty. Plus, we have a number of guys returning from injury. Hightower is at the top of the list but lesser players missed significant time last year and may be ready to contribute.
Speed is still a major problem. Shelton is maybe the slowest front seven player in the league, so he's no help there. Corey Clement eviscerated them in the Super Bowl and they still have no answer for a guy like that (and Clement is hardly a first-tier receiving back).

Plus, the team still has more draft capital this year than they had for all of last year's draft. Plus, we could add to through free agency and trades once the draft is complete.

Definitely want to add to the defense but there is time still.
I agree with this. Get a Lorenzo Carter or Justin Reid or someone at 43, maybe another defender on day two (I love Nathan Shepherd), make a key trade in camp, and then make another trade or two in-season. The D still looks like a big problem but the playoffs don't start for a while.
 

Mystic Merlin

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They need to devote draft resources to the defense because it's essential to putting together a good defense. You can't do it through FA alone.

Of course, they could spend every pick this year on defenders and still not see big results in 2018 because most players don't hit the ground running in the NFL and even more never hit the ground at all. For 2018, my expectations are one instant starter and a few role players. We're better off hopping that Rivers contributes in Y2, Wise gets better, amd Hightower is healthy for the stretch run if you're looking for defensive strides.
 

pappymojo

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They need to devote draft resources to the defense because it's essential to putting together a good defense. You can't do it through FA alone.

Of course, they could spend every pick this year on defenders and still not see big results in 2018 because most players don't hit the ground running in the NFL and even more never hit the ground at all. For 2018, my expectations are one instant starter and a few role players. We're better off hopping that Rivers contributes in Y2, Wise gets better, amd Hightower is healthy for the stretch run if you're looking for defensive strides.
Still hopeful with Langi, Cyrus and Jonathan Jones.

Lots and lots of hope (and booze).
 

BigSoxFan

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My take on Landry is that he is a speed rusher with very little strength and very little ability to help in the run defense. I don't think he's a fit. I like Hubbard though.
He’s not going to be a complete DE that Belichick likes but his pass rushing skills are elite. He was literally the focal point of the OL of every snap the last 2 years and still was able to create a ton of pressure/sacks.

I think if they can get him at 43, it would represent great value and he would certainly help the team next year on obvious passing downs.
 

DeadlySplitter

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We're better off hopping that Rivers contributes in Y2, Wise gets better, amd Hightower is healthy for the stretch run if you're looking for defensive strides.
I think this is why Bill essentially went for instant Solder / Lewis replacements in round 1. he thinks the odds are better for the defense to improve via internal improvement than high-end drafting, at least within Brady's window.

curious who they do get for defense today
 

SMU_Sox

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Is he going to move to the left side? Is Cannon going to the bench? If he's that good, why did SF just use a premium pick to upgrade him?


Speed is still a major problem. Shelton is maybe the slowest front seven player in the league, so he's no help there. Corey Clement eviscerated them in the Super Bowl and they still have no answer for a guy like that (and Clement is hardly a first-tier receiving back).


I agree with this. Get a Lorenzo Carter or Justin Reid or someone at 43, maybe another defender on day two (I love Nathan Shepherd), make a key trade in camp, and then make another trade or two in-season. The D still looks like a big problem but the playoffs don't start for a while.
I really like Ronnie Harrison if Reid is off the board. I think he can do that. Reid struggled with some of the quicker guys anyway. Any day 3 LBs you like?
 

tims4wins

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I’m no expert but my dream day 2 is Carter or Landry at 43, Reid or Harrison at 63, then the best QB they like at 95 - be it White, Woodside, Falk, or if Lauletta is there

Edit: would add Hubbard to the list at 43
 

bakahump

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NFL.com's top graded prospects in order still remaining...

DE Landry, BC
CB Jackson, Iowa
TE Gesicki, Penn State
WR Sutton, SMU
TE Goedert, S. Dakota State
DT Settle, Virginia Tech
DE Carter, Georgia
WR Chark, LSU
S Bates, Wake Forest

WR Kirk, Texas A&M
DE Hubbard, Ohio State


The Pats have the 11th pick and the 31st pick in the 2nd round.
There is 11 off that list (which we know BB and co will rate differently). I would be happy with any of those guys. Good chance a 2nd one of that list makes it to the 63rd.

But they have to grab a QB right? Even at 63 Right?

I would consider a trade down from 43 (with Tampa maybe?) to get more picks. Just too many good prospects still left.
 

ZMart100

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I like Genard Avery out of Memphis as a LB. Ade Aruna out of Tulane as a OLB/DE. Mason McKenrick out of John Carroll as a ST ace (hopefully)/S/LB hybrid though he may be more of an UDFA type.
 

RoyHobbs

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I really like Ronnie Harrison if Reid is off the board. I think he can do that. Reid struggled with some of the quicker guys anyway.
Thanks for your great posts before and during the draft.

What about a guy like Duke Dawson? Projects to the slot, has experience sliding between S and CB, played all four years, only ~40% completion rate against the past two seasons (JJ's was 41 point something, as a comp)...?
 

Norm loves Vera

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Patriots trade pick 95 and get Brown and pick 143 in return


49ers are trading OT Trent Brown and pick number 143 overall to the New England Patriots in exchange for pick number 95 overall, per @FieldYates and me. The deal is pending a physical.
 

DJnVa

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Patriots trade pick 95 and get Brown and pick 143 in return


49ers are trading OT Trent Brown and pick number 143 overall to the New England Patriots in exchange for pick number 95 overall, per @FieldYates and me. The deal is pending a physical.

So they can get a physical done before pick #95 is taken tomorrow?
 

E5 Yaz

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Albert Breer suggests a second-round safety from Stanford (where have I heard that before?)

43. New England (from San Francisco): Justin Reid, S, Stanford
A heady, versatile safety makes sense for a New England team that values the position, and has some age there.

The next pick?
44. Washington: Dallas Goedert, TE, South Dakota State


And then ... the QB

63. New England: Luke Falk, QB, Washington State
Rumblings that the Patriots are interested in Falk have been floating around for a few weeks now.
 

Valek123

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Kyle Lauletta is just still someone I keep coming back to, great write-up in the Players Tribune.

I think we end up with 2 of the best available DL, LB and CB. My gut is BB spent the short off-season rewatching the super-bowl tape and determined that the defensive issues were coachable but the lack of replacement talent in the offensive line was clearly more pressing. Next step is to get some pressure on the QB(it's been a good number of years), get Hightower back and snag a CB. If they are not confident in Hightower I see a LB before the other two slots.

Which to me means today I won't be surprised when we draft a TE and a WR.
 

AB in DC

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Depends who's doing the rumblings. There are a few reporters who are exceptionally plugged in whose word I trust -- guys like Schefter or Gosselin. Not sure if Albert Breer is nearly at that level, but I wouldn't write it off completely -- he's not one for rampant speculation or just throwing shit against the wall like some other talking heads.
 

dcmissle

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Solid and fresh draft programming from NFLN all day.

But don’t tune in if you are easily distracted. Andrew Siciliano’s protruding ears are spellbinding and spectacular.
 

BaseballJones

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Kyle Lauletta is just still someone I keep coming back to, great write-up in the Players Tribune.

I think we end up with 2 of the best available DL, LB and CB. My gut is BB spent the short off-season rewatching the super-bowl tape and determined that the defensive issues were coachable but the lack of replacement talent in the offensive line was clearly more pressing. Next step is to get some pressure on the QB(it's been a good number of years), get Hightower back and snag a CB. If they are not confident in Hightower I see a LB before the other two slots.

Which to me means today I won't be surprised when we draft a TE and a WR.
No way to know this barring some sort of BB explanation (haha), but I think they might have been looking at Evans at LB, but when he got picked right in front of them, they went to plan B.

There's no doubt that their offensive line got a major boost with Wynn and Brown. Between them and Michel, the offense is in excellent shape.

Now yes, time to do something about the defense. I know BB typically takes the best player available, so I don't know what defensive players he'll end up with, but he HAS to address the defense SOME, doesn't he?
 

pappymojo

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Casserly just called the former to the Pats, but he’s worse than the weatherman, right?

Seriously, does Rudolph last until 43?
Baring a trade up, the only teams I think may draft a QB before 43 are Giants at 34, Broncos at 40, or Dolphins at 42. Me, I want a difference maker on defense before we draft another player on offense. I don't care if it's a DT, CB, LB, DE, etc. Just give me someone so I can convince myself that Belichick is actively working to improve the defense.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not sure there's any reason to think that they HAVE to pick a QB. It makes sense to get a guy for when Brady retires, but with the top 5 gone, they might not see a future NFL starter left. Injury insurance is Hoyer and its unlikely any rookie left would beat him out for the backup spot. Could be a case of not liking the value in the draft this year. Could easily go 2 QBs, maybe bring in a couple undrafted kids like Pujals, Shimonek, woodside ferguson etc. For pre-season
 

tims4wins

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Not sure there's any reason to think that they HAVE to pick a QB. It makes sense to get a guy for when Brady retires, but with the top 5 gone, they might not see a future NFL starter left. Injury insurance is Hoyer and its unlikely any rookie left would beat him out for the backup spot. Could be a case of not liking the value in the draft this year. Could easily go 2 QBs, maybe bring in a couple undrafted kids like Pujals, Shimonek, woodside ferguson etc. For pre-season
I agree with this. A lot has been made of this QB draft class but there are a lot of analysts that don't really like it. Maybe they wait until 2019.
 

dcmissle

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Baring a trade up, the only teams I think may draft a QB before 43 are Giants at 34, Broncos at 40, or Dolphins at 42. Me, I want a difference maker on defense before we draft another player on offense. I don't care if it's a DT, CB, LB, DE, etc. Just give me someone so I can convince myself that Belichick is actively working to improve the defense.
+1.

And it seems to me the chances of one of NYG, Den and Mia drafting Rudolph are pretty substantial. Which means a trade up, and count me out of that business right now.