ADD/ADHD strategies

[SocrManiac]

SOSH Hivemind!!!

I decided it was time to stop coaching my son last spring. I loved working with his team, but we didn’t develop effective strategies for him to make the break between Dad and Coach. We put him in an advanced program with an absolutely fantastic coaching staff and have been happy ever since.

Until this fall.

I won’t detail the scenarios as that’s not what the thread is about, but I’ve been pulled back in! This is a two teams’ worth of 8 year olds that practice together. We have two teams with some variant of ADD/ADHD. When they’re “on,” they could wreck a training session. One of my primary responsibilities with the team is addressing overall discipline. The team has largely come inline with the exception of these two.

This is an extremely advanced group of players, and they’re at a stage of training where they need some whiteboard time in order to progress. It’s odd timing because they’re also at an age where that’s a difficult thing to do. We can corral them for short ”classroom” sessions and effectively communicate the concepts we need. The two boys, however, can disrupt that fine balance between the larger group paying attention or getting distracted like a typical 8 year old.

One is medicated, with the typical wearing-off effects kicking or kicked in by the time our evening sessions roll around. The other is unmedicated due to the parents’ choice. The two play off each other as naturally as Abbott and Costello, making each other worse the second they’re in visual range.

They can’t sit, they can’t focus, and they can’t help but disrupt the other boys.

Each of them requires very different strategies. One, that is medicated, has a parent that is extremely sensitive to her son’s behavior. She supports our disciplinary measures and reinforces the lessons and concepts we are training. He can be brought back to heel with gentle, repeated reminders, at least to a point. By the end of a session he’s typically spent. He’s making an effort and I appreciate that. I think we’re in a good spot, though I think the status quo is going to be constant effort. If anybody thinks there can be an expectation of a minimal-intervention equilibrium, I‘d be interested in what strategies we might use to get to that point. I’m happy enough right now that we can simply bring him back to center on a consistent basis.

The other one… I’ve engaged with my first dialogue with a parent, and it was shocking. The general sentiment was that when he’s with us, he’s our problem. Him getting out of control is our fault. He can’t sit still, so trying to teach him that way is just asking him to be disruptive. The parent has given up on reining him in and is just riding the wave, hoping to find a teacher or coach that can find some way to help (none thus far has, apparently).

I had to discipline him during a game the other day for an infraction so egregious it merits discussion of removal from the program, and the back and forth with the parent was “He’s not getting enough playing time!“ “He did X, I had to discipline him.” “Well, it’s your job to keep him in control!” “I can’t reward this type of behavior.” Emotions on the parent’s side were high and it was probably bad timing, but I’ll engage before training in the future to see if we can improve the conversation.

I know SoSHers have experience with this… Infuse me with your wisdom!

 

[AlNipper49]

“Well if we can’t control him perhaps we just aren’t the right team for him”.

I apologize for the short post but, without parental support, you’ll be saying this either now or in twelve months.

 

[Rovin Romine]

The other one… I’ve engaged with my first dialogue with a parent, and it was shocking. The general sentiment was that when he’s with us, he’s our problem. Him getting out of control is our fault. He can’t sit still, so trying to teach him that way is just asking him to be disruptive. The parent has given up on reining him in and is just riding the wave, hoping to find a teacher or coach that can find some way to help (none thus far has, apparently).

I had to discipline him during a game the other day for an infraction so egregious it merits discussion of removal from the program, and the back and forth with the parent was “He’s not getting enough playing time!“ “He did X, I had to discipline him.” “Well, it’s your job to keep him in control!” “I can’t reward this type of behavior.” Emotions on the parent’s side were high and it was probably bad timing, but I’ll engage before training in the future to see if we can improve the conversation.

Sounds like you and the parent both don't know what ADHD is, or how to deal with it. Assuming this is ADHD, and not something else. Or isn't ADHD and something else.

Discipline, control, rewarding behavior. . .those aren't exactly factors, in the sense that simply trying to do "more" of the typical teaching/coaching/parenting is playing to the kid's weakness. The short answer is that the kids almost always need medication and environmental accommodation.

I'd recommend just about any of the Russ Barkley videos to get a handle on the disorder. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg6cfsnmqyg
This is part of a larger lecture on childhood ADHD (most are linked up on youtube). It's a good overview on the the emotional component - which is not what most people think it is. Or rather, it can recontextualize what you're seeing, in a helpful way.

This is another longer one, more conversational, more focused on the adult disorder, but also good to get a handle on what it is. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhkDTopTbc

 

[Zososoxfan]

SOSH Hivemind!!!

I decided it was time to stop coaching my son last spring. I loved working with his team, but we didn’t develop effective strategies for him to make the break between Dad and Coach. We put him in an advanced program with an absolutely fantastic coaching staff and have been happy ever since.

Until this fall.

I won’t detail the scenarios as that’s not what the thread is about, but I’ve been pulled back in! This is a two teams’ worth of 8 year olds that practice together. We have two teams with some variant of ADD/ADHD. When they’re “on,” they could wreck a training session. One of my primary responsibilities with the team is addressing overall discipline. The team has largely come inline with the exception of these two.

This is an extremely advanced group of players, and they’re at a stage of training where they need some whiteboard time in order to progress. It’s odd timing because they’re also at an age where that’s a difficult thing to do. We can corral them for short ”classroom” sessions and effectively communicate the concepts we need. The two boys, however, can disrupt that fine balance between the larger group paying attention or getting distracted like a typical 8 year old.

One is medicated, with the typical wearing-off effects kicking or kicked in by the time our evening sessions roll around. The other is unmedicated due to the parents’ choice. The two play off each other as naturally as Abbott and Costello, making each other worse the second they’re in visual range.

They can’t sit, they can’t focus, and they can’t help but disrupt the other boys.

Each of them requires very different strategies. One, that is medicated, has a parent that is extremely sensitive to her son’s behavior. She supports our disciplinary measures and reinforces the lessons and concepts we are training. He can be brought back to heel with gentle, repeated reminders, at least to a point. By the end of a session he’s typically spent. He’s making an effort and I appreciate that. I think we’re in a good spot, though I think the status quo is going to be constant effort. If anybody thinks there can be an expectation of a minimal-intervention equilibrium, I‘d be interested in what strategies we might use to get to that point. I’m happy enough right now that we can simply bring him back to center on a consistent basis.

The other one… I’ve engaged with my first dialogue with a parent, and it was shocking. The general sentiment was that when he’s with us, he’s our problem. Him getting out of control is our fault. He can’t sit still, so trying to teach him that way is just asking him to be disruptive. The parent has given up on reining him in and is just riding the wave, hoping to find a teacher or coach that can find some way to help (none thus far has, apparently).

I had to discipline him during a game the other day for an infraction so egregious it merits discussion of removal from the program, and the back and forth with the parent was “He’s not getting enough playing time!“ “He did X, I had to discipline him.” “Well, it’s your job to keep him in control!” “I can’t reward this type of behavior.” Emotions on the parent’s side were high and it was probably bad timing, but I’ll engage before training in the future to see if we can improve the conversation.

I know SoSHers have experience with this… Infuse me with your wisdom!

Your post caught my eye because I'm coaching my son's U6 team and I'm also diagnosed with ADD. But I have a broad question in response to your post, that probably isn't what you're after.

My question is whether U9 players need whiteboard class sessions? I mean, couldn't these concepts be explained on a portable coach's whiteboard on the field? Your team is probably more advanced than I ever was, but even at my highest level (MAPLE Division 1 back in the early 2000s) we would have concepts explained during practice and then "acted out" on the field. The one exercise that I vividly remember that I've seen many professional level clubs do is defensive shape/movement/responsibility. In short, you have XI players in defensive shape, then move the ball to various places on the field, stop the ball and freeze the defenders in place, and then redirect players to their proper positions and discuss conflicts/responsibilities. Once that was understood, we worked on overloads and 3v2s so that, for instance, the LMF and LB knew who was supposed to put pressure on the ball and who was supposed to track runners, and when the LCB was supposed to help.

 

[SocrManiac]

The whiteboard is on the field in the middle of cones helping to reinforce the layout. We aren’t physically in a classroom.

These kids are the freaks. I have a video from earlier this season. This one kid- he’s 7- takes our corners. We had to stop him from doing Olympicos every time. From the attacking right, he drives the ball into the box, then jogs back toward his position on the outside. There’s some pinball in the box and the ball squirts out to him. There are probably 6 or 8 kids between him and the goal- no shot available. The ball is coming on his weaker left side, so he adjusts and angles his body so the ball is on his right, calmly chipping the ball over everybody and into the top right corner. He nonchalantly turns and jogs back to his half of the field without celebrating. If I didn’t have the video proof I wouldn’t believe it and I saw it live.

So, yeah, these kids are at the point where they need to see some stuff drawn up, and they respond very well to it, executing within a few attempts on the field.

I fully admit I don’t know a damn thing about ADD or ADHD and am going off others’ assessments. I will certainly watch these videos for an education.

 

[nayrbrey]

“Well if we can’t control him perhaps we just aren’t the right team for him”.

I apologize for the short post but, without parental support, you’ll be saying this either now or in twelve months.

I agree with Nip on this one.
I’ve had several issues with players and their parents, and have offered this option to 2 kids parents. One accepted and the other is still with our team.

I will clarify none of the behaviors were on this scale involving diagnosed disorders. It was a kid causing problems with others and one where the parent thought the kid was not playing enough, he was best player on team etc.

One question that comes to mind is, are these 2 players and their behavior affecting the other “X” number of players? You may end up losing some of the other kids if they or their parents feel that their kids are taking a back seat.

edit- the above is strictly about the parents in the situation. As Socr states below it’s at the upper club levels of play. Here it is several thousand dollars a year (2k up to 5k or more) so other parents can get defensive about their kids quality of teaching/practices.

 

[luckysox]

Watch the stuff on ADHD above, please. These kids are neurodivergent, not miscreants with behavioral disturbances. Some kids' ADHD manifests in ways that make it actually impossible for them to attaned to things like white board instruction in the middle of a physical practice; they also can't yet correct behaviors as they are happening - they may not have any understanding that their behavior, even when you point it out to them as it is happening, is something that is not desired, and they certainly can't "sit still" for a very long period of time simply because coaches want them to or tell them to. Many struggle with executive function in a way that people without ADHD simply cannot comprehend without significant education about it. Yes, it sounds like there are issues with parenting here, but I promise if that kid actually has ADHD and that is coupled with parents who won't address the problem from every imaginable angle, he is going to be the subject of these conversations for every activity he is involved in, and he's gonna get yelled at, tossed out, or told "this isn't the right fit for him" over and over. It's going to fuck with his self-esteeem and with his life. It really is. Try to be the coach/team that doesn't discard him because he is unmanageable. If you take on the responsibility of coaching a team with this age group, but you want it to be taken so seriously as to be involving whiteboard instruction on the field for said agegroup (these kids are 8, yes?), please also take it seriously enough to work your ass off for the hardest kids to manage. There are no bad 8 year olds. They may present as little a-holes, but they are not, in fact, little a-holes. "This isn't the right place for your kid" is a terrible, terrible way to handle it. Please don't do that.

I applaud you starting this thread to try to gain more information, @SocrManiac, and I think you're the kind of guy (at least based on your posts on a baseball-related message board) who can make a positive difference in this kid's life, one that he will benefit from not just right now, but down the road, too. Understand that you may never get any acknowledgement about this positive difference from him or his parents, but if you try to understand him, as you are doing, and do as right by him as you can, you can be assured you're making a difference.

 

[SocrManiac]

I appreciate the links, guys. I went down the rabbit hole this morning. I put together a summary and shared it with the head coach and other assistant, both younger guys.

Here’s what’s on the table… I opened last practice with some high energy but fun activities. We had a good session overall, and I didn’t attribute any of it to burning energy before the meat and potatoes were served.

Assuming there might be something to that… I’m going to offer to work with the higher energy player for thirty minutes before practice. First 15 minutes will be his choice, next 15 will be mine to transition him.I want to get to know him. I’ll try to give him some positive interactions with male authority and get to know him personally. Let’s see where I can get with him there. The return is that he can’t place his peers in danger- no randomly shooting the ball into groups of people (if he just has to kick, find some netting), no hands on throats, etc.

I’m not going to plan much beyond that at this point. I want to feel this out to get an idea of where he’s at and what he needs.

Again, I appreciate the depth of knowledge here and the willingness to share. If I’m going about this the wrong way or folks have suggestions, please be brutal.

 

[luckysox]

I appreciate the links, guys. I went down the rabbit hole this morning. I put together a summary and shared it with the head coach and other assistant, both younger guys.

Here’s what’s on the table… I opened last practice with some high energy but fun activities. We had a good session overall, and I didn’t attribute any of it to burning energy before the meat and potatoes were served.

Assuming there might be something to that… I’m going to offer to work with the higher energy player for thirty minutes before practice. First 15 minutes will be his choice, next 15 will be mine to transition him.I want to get to know him. I’ll try to give him some positive interactions with male authority and get to know him personally. Let’s see where I can get with him there. The return is that he can’t place his peers in danger- no randomly shooting the ball into groups of people (if he just has to kick, find some netting), no hands on throats, etc.

I’m not going to plan much beyond that at this point. I want to feel this out to get an idea of where he’s at and what he needs.

Again, I appreciate the depth of knowledge here and the willingness to share. If I’m going about this the wrong way or folks have suggestions, please be brutal.

You're a good human.

 

[AlNipper49]

Watch the stuff on ADHD above, please. These kids are neurodivergent, not miscreants with behavioral disturbances. Some kids' ADHD manifests in ways that make it actually impossible for them to attaned to things like white board instruction in the middle of a physical practice; they also can't yet correct behaviors as they are happening - they may not have any understanding that their behavior, even when you point it out to them as it is happening, is something that is not desired, and they certainly can't "sit still" for a very long period of time simply because coaches want them to or tell them to. Many struggle with executive function in a way that people without ADHD simply cannot comprehend without significant education about it. Yes, it sounds like there are issues with parenting here, but I promise if that kid actually has ADHD and that is coupled with parents who won't address the problem from every imaginable angle, he is going to be the subject of these conversations for every activity he is involved in, and he's gonna get yelled at, tossed out, or told "this isn't the right fit for him" over and over. It's going to fuck with his self-esteeem and with his life. It really is. Try to be the coach/team that doesn't discard him because he is unmanageable. If you take on the responsibility of coaching a team with this age group, but you want it to be taken so seriously as to be involving whiteboard instruction on the field for said agegroup (these kids are 8, yes?), please also take it seriously enough to work your ass off for the hardest kids to manage. There are no bad 8 year olds. They may present as little a-holes, but they are not, in fact, little a-holes. "This isn't the right place for your kid" is a terrible, terrible way to handle it. Please don't do that.

I applaud you starting this thread to try to gain more information, @SocrManiac, and I think you're the kind of guy (at least based on your posts on a baseball-related message board) who can make a positive difference in this kid's life, one that he will benefit from not just right now, but down the road, too. Understand that you may never get any acknowledgement about this positive difference from him or his parents, but if you try to understand him, as you are doing, and do as right by him as you can, you can be assured you're making a difference.

He went to the parents and one set was receptive. That kid can be coached because you have a solid framework for the teamwork necessary. The other parents blew him off. He can either spend a massive amount of time researching stuff that may not even apply to that kid. The only way to reach a kid like that is through his parents (and maybe some extra credit reading/researching/talking on his side) as every kid, particularly those with potential issues, are drastically different.

It's his obligation to tell the parents that this team may not be right for the kid, otherwise he'll be spending the foreseeable future giving a disproportionate amount of his time to one kid and not enough to the other X amount of players on his team.

And yes, 8 year olds can be pieces of shit. They learn from their parents. Obviously Socr needs to always be coaching with empathy and care, but he's not the one to fix the kids. A good coach at that age can only be accretive to the lessons that they are learning at home. He's not a high school coach spending 20 hours a week with the kid.

 

[McDrew]

I agree with Nip on this one.

Me too.

Autism/ADHD are not my fault, but they are my responsibility. I do say that as a 40 year old though. This is not the kid's fault, but in this case, it is his parents responsibility and if they are failing you and him by not getting him help, it is not your job to let him struggle in a way that affects others. The kid who is trying and whose parents are supportive: you are a blessing to that child. As someone who would have benefited so much from that, I applaud the choice you have made and how you have approached it. The other kid: eject him. Not because of him, but because his parents are not supporting him enough.

 

[luckysox]

He went to the parents and one set was receptive. That kid can be coached because you have a solid framework for the teamwork necessary. The other parents blew him off. He can either spend a massive amount of time researching stuff that may not even apply to that kid. The only way to reach a kid like that is through his parents (and maybe some extra credit reading/researching/talking on his side) as every kid, particularly those with potential issues, are drastically different.

It's his obligation to tell the parents that this team may not be right for the kid, otherwise he'll be spending the foreseeable future giving a disproportionate amount of his time to one kid and not enough to the other X amount of players on his team.

And yes, 8 year olds can be pieces of shit. They learn from their parents. Obviously Socr needs to always be coaching with empathy and care, but he's not the one to fix the kids. A good coach at that age can only be accretive to the lessons that they are learning at home. He's not a high school coach spending 20 hours a week with the kid.

Fair enough. We just do not see eye to eye on this.

 

[McDrew]

Yes, it sounds like there are issues with parenting here, but I promise if that kid actually has ADHD and that is coupled with parents who won't address the problem from every imaginable angle, he is going to be the subject of these conversations for every activity he is involved in, and he's gonna get yelled at, tossed out, or told "this isn't the right fit for him" over and over. It's going to fuck with his self-esteeem and with his life. It really is.

I think you are so focused on the child that you aren't paying attention to the damage caused to others by being untreated.
I was one of those kids. No one should have been forced to accommodate my bullshit because neither I nor my parents were doing anything to address it at the time. This kid's parents fucking suck and the kid is going to suffer because they aren't learning or listening. It is only a coach's job to provide reasonable accommodations (which is 100% happening with the other kid).

 

[Rovin Romine]

I think you are so focused on the child that you aren't paying attention to the damage caused to others by being untreated.
I was one of those kids. No one should have been forced to accommodate my bullshit because neither I nor my parents were doing anything to address it at the time. This kid's parents fucking suck and the kid is going to suffer because they aren't learning or listening. It is only a coach's job to provide reasonable accommodations (which is 100% happening with the other kid).

They're third graders.

Maybe, like, people could help them, and that would be OK?

 

[luckysox]

I think you are so focused on the child that you aren't paying attention to the damage caused to others by being untreated.
I was one of those kids. No one should have been forced to accommodate my bullshit because neither I nor my parents were doing anything to address it at the time. This kid's parents fucking suck and the kid is going to suffer because they aren't learning or listening. It is only a coach's job to provide reasonable accommodations (which is 100% happening with the other kid).

My position is, we’re all of us our brother’s keepers. If someone else is dropping the ball - like a kid’s parents - then we have to pick it up as best as we can, or our fucking society turns into a cesspool of people who don’t value other human beings - a lot like what it looks like right about now. I think a soccer team for 8 year olds presents a pretty safe place to help a struggling little a-hole who probably has serious ADHD but has no supports for it - even though it might be at the expense of the other 8 year olds (and their grown-ass adult coaches) winning more games or developing the next soccer phenom. I think trying to help this kid learn that he has value even though his behavior is not acceptable is really fucking important. Because what this kid learns every time he gets tossed from a team, activity, classroom, etc. is that he has no fucking value as he is. You understand he’s 8, right? And that NO ONE IS HELPING HIM WITH A NEUROLOGICAL DISORDER IN HIS FUCKING BRAIN? But fuck it, those other kids deserve perfect U-8 soccer experience.
Anyway, I told myself I wasn’t going to argue with people after I originally posted because I’m so sick of all the ill will in this world. We can agree to disagree, but your position, and that of some other similar-minded folks in this thread, makes me sad. I’m sure my position isn’t perfect by any stretch either. I guess it just is what it is.
Again, @SocrManiac, thanks for trying to help these kids - all of them.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

In going to stay away from the judgement stuff here and just give advice from my recent experience.

I just finished coaching fall ball with a group of kids aged 7-9. I'd wager 50% of them were somewhere on the ADD spectrum. It was fucking nuts. That said, us 3 coaches realized we were going to have to adjust our expectations. We still finished first in the league, but there was a learning curve.

You know how a pro coach would get skewered if he forced his team to his playstyle when the talents on the team don't match (Rex Ryan making his D play 3-4 when they were a top 5 defense the year prior playing a 4-3)? I believe it holds true at all levels. You have to be flexible.

If you aren't breaking practices out - one coach per station, rotating kids through - I'd start. Smaller groups and multiple drills means less down time and more stimulation. And that's true even if the kids don't have ADD. If kids are standing around waiting their turn for stuff, it's a waste of practice time, but it's a death sentence for ADD kids.

Most of the issues I found with the ADHD kids were when they were in a less supervised group with other kids (ie, waiting in line or in the dugout without a coach) and focusing during individual lessons. You may have to be more willing to let the kids goof off when they're standing around. They're 8 year olds and, regardless of their skill level, the point is for them to have fun and learn. Occasional harmless goofing off is a good way for kids to socialize and still engage in a boring part of practice.

As for the individual lessons, don't be afraid to slow them down and break it down into little chunks. I was breaking down basic throwing mechanics into 5-6 sections and stopping them frequently to ask questions and make sure they weren't just coasting (it's easier for ADD kids to shut their brains off and coast).

It's alot of work, but by the end of the season we saw so much progress with the kids, it just took different methods than we expected.

 

[InstaFace]

My dad, myself and my eldest kid are all ADD, the kid with mild hyperactivity, all of us on (different) meds. My mom's an expert in child learning disabilities professionally, and it's been a discussion theme in our family life for >30 years.

One important thing to understand is that ADD is a dopamine deficiency. Dopamine facilitates a lot of stuff for us neurologically but one thing it does for neurons is help sustain and amplify signals, and if you have less of it it's a bit like being tired, with your brain fighting to stay awake. I get distracted and flip over to SoSH because I need stimulation because my brain is tired of focusing (or tired of trying to get into a focused state); my kid may start jumping on the couch because when her brain has that same need, the tactic to "keep the brain awake" can involve a whole lot more movement, it's not just a matter of seeking some thoughts that are more stimulating so you can keep the brain acceptably engaged. Boredom breeds coping tactics in all of us, but while "normal" kids might just daydream, and will have an easier time focusing on something that's less stimulating, ADD kids will have a higher threshold of engagement (or mental bandwidth, e.g. earlier in the day) before they can focus.

As for coaching: You're talking about 7- and 8-year-olds here, so while some tactical education might be helpful, it can probably take a backseat to just getting reps on the ball and working on techniques. One reason soccer is such a good sport for ADD kids is that when you're playing, there's an opportunity to do something the entire time - there's not really any standing around required. What will engage these kids is action. So, if one isn't paying attention, send him to go work on some particular technique 1:1 with an assistant coach. Have him go practice shots from different spots on the field. Maybe have a backup-plan drill or two that you can audible to when they're interrupting something else you're trying to do - okay guys, looks like people want to go kick some balls, let's everyone get a ball and go <I dunno, race each other dribbling through an obstacle course or something>. Whatever it is, maximize touches and minimize the amount of time they're standing around not doing things. Idle hands (feet) are the devil's workshop here for you - not that you need me to tell you this.

Another tactic can be that if you want them to stand calmly and listen to you (when they're all revved up), give them something to do with their hands or body. Hey, hold this water bottle. Here's 4 cones, go stand behind the other guys (implied: and you can stack and unstack them as much as you want - truth is they'll still be listening). Or one of those juggler-trainer draw-string nets that can hold a ball and let you practice juggling while you stand around - here, take this, go stand behind the guys and please listen while you kick.

For the one who's taking meds, though, you could at least ask if there's some extended-release formulation they could switch to or maybe take it later in the morning on practice days. My 7yo arrives home in good enough shape to sit and do her homework and maybe even practice piano, but by the time her soccer practice rolls around at 6pm (on the days it does), it's all worn off and if she isn't actively doing a thing during practice, she might run off and get distracted and not be listening to the coaches until she's snapped back to it. But they make 12-hour variants for every drug.

As for handling the parents, obviously one of them is being singularly unhelpful. But in spite of that, they may actually have decent tactics to suggest with respect to what works or doesn't work for their kid, what they've seen work or not work. And if they aren't having the kid take medication, and may not be all that engaged with what he's doing, then it's at least possible that it isn't a matter of ADD at all. There are plenty of neurological conditions, and there's plenty of behavior that isn't a neurochemical imbalance in the first place (as ADD is). For all you know he has a tremendously stressful home life, or is going through some tough things with his family, or has an environment where he can't get enough sleep, or a million other things. I wouldn't armchair-diagnose him, anymore than I'd presume to do so with you or anyone else. So at least keep an open mind that while one kid might be diagnosed with ADD and have medication and various tactics he uses to get through the day, the other kid might be totally different, even if you see it as "they're both distracted and bouncing all over the field".

 

[SocrManiac]

So, the situation has developed a bit further.

The parent of the child that was throttled took an incredibly measured approach. She stressed that she didn’t want the aggressor kicked off the team, requesting instead that measures be taken improve his behavior.

There have been a lot of good points in this thread and I don’t want to cherry pick responses. That said, I think a little clarification here is important. This is not town rec or town travel. It is a regional premier program. I had no idea of the intensity and commitment entering it and, had I done my homework, I may not have put my son in it. This isn’t a program that allows kids to be kids, and the parents are correspondingly entitled. It has benefits, with a staggering number of players entering D1 universities after high school. 5 of our boys put a team into a Columbus Day 3V3 tournament and won the U12 trophy. These kids are a different species. They’re all on multiple teams and getting plenty of touches and foot skills. They‘re in this program to learn the tactical side of the game that they won’t get from most parent coaches.

We can, and should, have conversations about whether or not this level of commitment is appropriate for 8 year olds (spoiler: it’s not), but fear of missing out is what drove us to roll with it. If my son decides he loves soccer when he’s 12, in many ways it’s too late. He wants to do it and we’ll support him as long as he does, but I’m very wary of some of what I’m seeing. The days of the multi-sport athlete feel dead from where I’m sitting today and it breaks my heart.

The obvious question is, if it’s that elite, what am I doing involved in a coaching staff? I have extensive specialized coaching experience that is relevant to developing the team. Anybody that’s been in the footy forum over the years can make a fairly educated guess what that might be, but I don’t think it’s necessarily at the core of this issue.

So, all that said… I forgot, because it’s been months, but we had to sign extensive paperwork outlining parent and player behavior and expectations. Obviously what we’re dealing with has run afoul of those agreements. The director of the program contacted the coaches with the intent of dropping the kid from the program. I’ve gotten him a stay of execution based on a few points:

1. The coaching staff has largely been turned over, partly to address disciplinary issues
2. I put forth the plan I outlined upthread
3. I made the plea based on the arguments I read here. If everybody is giving up on the kid, including his parents, what chance does he have?

This is contingent on his parents committing to be part of the process. There’s little I can do to suggest this would really work otherwise.

I think I started this thread with the subliminal hope that somebody would grant me permission to give up on these boys. In less than a day, I’ve done my best to educate myself, took it as a personal challenge/goal to make a difference in these kids’ lives, and experienced a gut punch thinking I’d already lost (and maybe I have if the parents don’t climb aboard).

It’s getting a little dusty in here.

Anyway, thanks for the education and the support. If nothing else comes of this, I feel better equipped to help the other boy, and my learning on the subject doesn’t end when I click reply here. I have podcasts to listen to and books to read.

 

[Devizier]

This is interesting to me, because my son has ADHD and started playing U8 travel soccer in 3rd grade (you can even find my thread in this forum!) At that point he hadn’t been formally diagnosed, so no mediation until halfway through the spring season. His case wasn’t outwardly obvious (no major behavioral issues) but his inattentiveness quickly became a problem. He would often be out of position on set plays, would miss coaching instructions, things like that. To my surprise he was on the “A” travel team, mostly because he is fast and incredibly aggressive on defense. He managed the whole season with these guys but there were problems even after he began medication, all the coachabilty issues but also being excluded from team social activities, getting picked last/second to last in pickup games, that kind of stuff. Remarkably he still seemed to enjoy himself although not nearly as much as he could have.

The following season he was moved to the lower travel team which worked better in some respects but much worse in others. He took the news just fine, I think he was happy to be off the first team. But there was a much less stringent coaching structure and plenty of kids with uncontrolled behavioral issues. One of the coaches kids was frequently disruptive and at one point actually punched my son. Another one of the kids was just a relentless bully and constantly taunted the other players for the smallest mistakes, while playing the worst, laziest soccer on the team. They lost nearly every game. A bunch of kids dropped out in the spring and a few new ones came on. With that came some coaching changes and the behavioral stuff became a lot better. They still lost a ton and my son was developing bad habits. All this time we were adjusting his medication and seeing improvements across the board. Finally, he decides he’s done with travel soccer and goes for the club teams. I’d seen these kids play and the quality was higher than even the upper travel team, but tryouts were free so why not.

Long story short, he made the club team, to my everlasting surprise. He’s on their lower squad, has a lot to learn and some to unlearn but his level of play and confidence is through the roof. The kids are actually nice to each other (and him) even though they are not really encouraged to develop social connections. All of this has been a huge blessing for him, worth every penny. He still has plenty of work to do, but I’m confident that he will do it.

My takes on this are that it’s not the worst thing if the kid with behavioral issues suffers what appears to be a demotion. Sometimes they can benefit from it. Also it can be really difficult to diagnose ADHD before kids are 8 years old. And the process can be quite slow. They do have lots of runway after that so it sometimes just takes time and extra chances even if they have to punt a year or two. If the kids are on an upper level club team already they are going to get more chances.

 

[luckysox]

So, the situation has developed a bit further.

The parent of the child that was throttled took an incredibly measured approach. She stressed that she didn’t want the aggressor kicked off the team, requesting instead that measures be taken improve his behavior.

There have been a lot of good points in this thread and I don’t want to cherry pick responses. That said, I think a little clarification here is important. This is not town rec or town travel. It is a regional premier program. I had no idea of the intensity and commitment entering it and, had I done my homework, I may not have put my son in it. This isn’t a program that allows kids to be kids, and the parents are correspondingly entitled. It has benefits, with a staggering number of players entering D1 universities after high school. 5 of our boys put a team into a Columbus Day 3V3 tournament and won the U12 trophy. These kids are a different species. They’re all on multiple teams and getting plenty of touches and foot skills. They‘re in this program to learn the tactical side of the game that they won’t get from most parent coaches.

We can, and should, have conversations about whether or not this level of commitment is appropriate for 8 year olds (spoiler: it’s not), but fear of missing out is what drove us to roll with it. If my son decides he loves soccer when he’s 12, in many ways it’s too late. He wants to do it and we’ll support him as long as he does, but I’m very wary of some of what I’m seeing. The days of the multi-sport athlete feel dead from where I’m sitting today and it breaks my heart.

The obvious question is, if it’s that elite, what am I doing involved in a coaching staff? I have extensive specialized coaching experience that is relevant to developing the team. Anybody that’s been in the footy forum over the years can make a fairly educated guess what that might be, but I don’t think it’s necessarily at the core of this issue.

So, all that said… I forgot, because it’s been months, but we had to sign extensive paperwork outlining parent and player behavior and expectations. Obviously what we’re dealing with has run afoul of those agreements. The director of the program contacted the coaches with the intent of dropping the kid from the program. I’ve gotten him a stay of execution based on a few points:

1. The coaching staff has largely been turned over, partly to address disciplinary issues
2. I put forth the plan I outlined upthread
3. I made the plea based on the arguments I read here. If everybody is giving up on the kid, including his parents, what chance does he have?

This is contingent on his parents committing to be part of the process. There’s little I can do to suggest this would really work otherwise.

I think I started this thread with the subliminal hope that somebody would grant me permission to give up on these boys. In less than a day, I’ve done my best to educate myself, took it as a personal challenge/goal to make a difference in these kids’ lives, and experienced a gut punch thinking I’d already lost (and maybe I have if the parents don’t climb aboard).

It’s getting a little dusty in here.

Anyway, thanks for the education and the support. If nothing else comes of this, I feel better equipped to help the other boy, and my learning on the subject doesn’t end when I click reply here. I have podcasts to listen to and books to read.

Sorry I got judgy, everyone. It was not my intent, but it is clearly what I did.

I hope his parents can step up in the way that they need to, as you are clearly doing as much as you can for him.

 

[SocrManiac]

Thought I'd post a quick update. Unfortunately, I think some of the scenarios are so specific as to be identifying so I don't want to go into detail.

This continues to be an ongoing struggle for all. I've had several "Ah-HA!" moments, all proving to be nothing. What works one day doesn't work another, and more likely never again at all. We've had some incredibly disruptive events as well, including having a practice essentially called off due to conditions created by the more disruptive player. Parents weren't there, of course...

We're in a bit of a lull right now so interactions have been minimal, but it's going to start ramping up again now. We'll see what the winter brings when outdoor days to siphon additional energy become limited. I'm never absolute in my opinion about next steps, but I find the needle has been pointing more toward separation from the team than not due to the other kids not getting what they signed up for.

All that said...

In taking a deeper dive into this stuff, I started noticing some interesting correlations and started talking to a few folks. Without boring anyone, I'll cut to the chase... I've been diagnosed with ADHD and have my first official appointment tomorrow. This no doubt ties on multiple levels in my desire to find a way to address this situation beneficially. It'll no doubt be part of the ongoing conversations and maybe I'll glean some insight that helps me have more good sessions than bad with this player. I feel like I owe it to help him since he has indirectly helped me.

 

[Rovin Romine]

Thought I'd post a quick update. Unfortunately, I think some of the scenarios are so specific as to be identifying so I don't want to go into detail.

This continues to be an ongoing struggle for all. I've had several "Ah-HA!" moments, all proving to be nothing. What works one day doesn't work another, and more likely never again at all. We've had some incredibly disruptive events as well, including having a practice essentially called off due to conditions created by the more disruptive player. Parents weren't there, of course...

We're in a bit of a lull right now so interactions have been minimal, but it's going to start ramping up again now. We'll see what the winter brings when outdoor days to siphon additional energy become limited. I'm never absolute in my opinion about next steps, but I find the needle has been pointing more toward separation from the team than not due to the other kids not getting what they signed up for.

All that said...

In taking a deeper dive into this stuff, I started noticing some interesting correlations and started talking to a few folks. Without boring anyone, I'll cut to the chase... I've been diagnosed with ADHD and have my first official appointment tomorrow. This no doubt ties on multiple levels in my desire to find a way to address this situation beneficially. It'll no doubt be part of the ongoing conversations and maybe I'll glean some insight that helps me have more good sessions than bad with this player. I feel like I owe it to help him since he has indirectly helped me.

Thank you for the update, and your own diagnosis is pretty interesting.

I think the frustrating thing about ADHD is that it's just there, apart from intelligence, apart from good intentions, apart from moral character. And yet it seems so amenable to people explaining things and kids trying hard. But it's not - shortening the feedback loop, external focusers, and likely drugs.

 

[luckysox]

Hope your appointment goes well, @SocrManiac.
My own diagnosis came two years after my son’s, and it has been a sometimes frustrating, but always revelatory, journey since.

Also, sounds like the situation with the player is really tough, especially with dumbass parents (not) involved. If you’re at a point where you have to cancel practices due to this one kid’s behavior - well, you have no easy out, that’s for sure. Sorry you’re going through this, but at least, hopefully, the kid sees your own, personal, compassion and can tuck it somewhere in the back of his mind, even though your decision likely has to be separation for him.

 

[DavidTai]

I got diagnosed during my first year in the workforce. If you're able to handle it without medication, I'd suggest just organizing and prioritizing "must-do" lists, and not cram too many things in that first list, then let the rest be first come first serve and not stress yourself out about non-essential tasks.

 

[SocrManiac]

Appreciate the input. I wish I’d been diagnosed earlier.

I don’t want to derail this, but I’ve been with my company for 17 years so my hyperactivity has been integrated as part of my value to the company. My inattentiveness has been a barrier. My emotional dysregulation is what has prevented advancement.

I want to get certain aspects under control with therapy, but I’m realistic about the timeframe to make real and lasting change. In the meantime, I’m open to seeing what relief I might get chemically on a temporary or ongoing basis.

 

[DavidTai]

If your workstation has it, use digital sticky notes (Windows 10 and 11 has them) and put them up on screen where you can see them when you log in and off. that's where you can keep lists you don't lose at all in your hands or desk. Don't close them so they appear when you log in and out.

You can do sticky notes at home too if you want, but I'd rather have home for where you can just let go and do whatever you want.

 

[AlNipper49]

Appreciate the input. I wish I’d been diagnosed earlier.

I don’t want to derail this, but I’ve been with my company for 17 years so my hyperactivity has been integrated as part of my value to the company. My inattentiveness has been a barrier. My emotional dysregulation is what has prevented advancement.

I want to get certain aspects under control with therapy, but I’m realistic about the timeframe to make real and lasting change. In the meantime, I’m open to seeing what relief I might get chemically on a temporary or ongoing basis.

I have this too. I call it Weaponized ADD.

I’ve never treated anything, but I have also put myself in situations where it’s not an issue. Were I a coder or writer or something it would be a complete fucking shitshow. I design and build service and policy which is short term and gives me a high. My biggest high is troubleshooting, which I also do.

It sounds like you can use this to your advantage coaching. You have 10+ kids all with different personalities, strengths and needs. What you are describing makes you the literal best person on paper to do the coaching that you are doing! The kids are very fortunate to have you.

 

[YTF]

Not being judgemental here, but I'm curious as to how these boys have elevated into an advanced league. Is there any sort of relationship between your league and the league that plays at a lower level where you might try to encourage all parties involved to have the boys play in that league, preferably on different teams? Also you seem to understand first hand that different people learn in different ways. Quite often that requires more one on one teaching/coaching which is obviously difficult to do in your situation. Any chance that you could somehow recruit some older players who might be interested in mentoring while trying to incorporate the strategies that your team employs? This might be a way to ease them into a more structured team environment?

 

[SocrManiac]

There’s a lot of thoughtful stuff here and I want to be equally thoughtful in my response, though I’m in a bad emotional state at the moment

I think the pay to play model is fundamentally to blame. These clubs cast huge nets and accept kids that are clearly only there to fill out numbers and absorb overhead. There’s some sifting for gold going on, certainly, but it’s largely just bringing dollars into the business. The elite team is ultimately the product, but there’s a lot going on that clearly has nothing to do with that product. Coaching seems to have a fairly high turnover with poor record keeping that would allow for more seamless transition year to year.

These clubs are highly competitive with other similar programs trying to draw in the same kids. So there isn’t really an alternate league, so to speak.

So how do these kids get into the team? In this case, I think it was because they were new to the program and only had a few highly focused, fast-paced evaluation sessions. Very little downtime to create disruption, and very little time to evaluate character.

Recruiting older players is a fascinating idea and one that I’d like to float in some capacity.

Unfortunately, today was a last straw and I’m done. I can’t go into detail. I’m emotionally drained and feeling a little overwhelmed by failure. Today’s transgression was so egregious that I suspect the parent that was present is going to make the decision for me. If not, there’s really no other recourse. In his current form he’s dangerous to the other players and it’s irresponsible to have him around. The nature of the sport and the job means the staff can’t have eyes dedicated to him at all times, and it literally only takes a second. Took a second, since it happened.

I have a lot to say, but let me thank you all for the education and support. This has literally changed my life as it took me on my own journey of discovery. I still feel that I let this kid down, and by extension those of you who trusted I’d do right by him. I’m truly, truly sorry.

 

[YTF]

There’s a lot of thoughtful stuff here and I want to be equally thoughtful in my response, though I’m in a bad emotional state at the moment

I think the pay to play model is fundamentally to blame. These clubs cast huge nets and accept kids that are clearly only there to fill out numbers and absorb overhead. There’s some sifting for gold going on, certainly, but it’s largely just bringing dollars into the business. The elite team is ultimately the product, but there’s a lot going on that clearly has nothing to do with that product. Coaching seems to have a fairly high turnover with poor record keeping that would allow for more seamless transition year to year.

These clubs are highly competitive with other similar programs trying to draw in the same kids. So there isn’t really an alternate league, so to speak.

So how do these kids get into the team? In this case, I think it was because they were new to the program and only had a few highly focused, fast-paced evaluation sessions. Very little downtime to create disruption, and very little time to evaluate character.

Recruiting older players is a fascinating idea and one that I’d like to float in some capacity.

Unfortunately, today was a last straw and I’m done. I can’t go into detail. I’m emotionally drained and feeling a little overwhelmed by failure. Today’s transgression was so egregious that I suspect the parent that was present is going to make the decision for me. If not, there’s really no other recourse. In his current form he’s dangerous to the other players and it’s irresponsible to have him around. The nature of the sport and the job means the staff can’t have eyes dedicated to him at all times, and it literally only takes a second. Took a second, since it happened.

I have a lot to say, but let me thank you all for the education and support. This has literally changed my life as it took me on my own journey of discovery. I still feel that I let this kid down, and by extension those of you who trusted I’d do right by him. I’m truly, truly sorry.

You failed no one. You gave all that you were able to give in a situation that no one else wanted. You placed yourself in a difficult situation for the betterment of others at a time when you're clearly dealing with your own difficulties. We only have so much that we can give of ourselves and sometimes that's just not enough to satisfy the demand. There's no shame or failure in doing what is ultimately the right thing for YOUR well being. I often think of the scenario that is presented to us in those pre-flight announcements that flight crews give before take off. When those oxygen masks drop you have to address your needs first so that you're able to help others. Airplanes aren't the only place where that advice is well served. I'm sure that you've made many meaningful contributions in your lifetime and will again in the future, but it seems that this is neither the right time or situation for you. For now take the time that you need for yourself. Serve your needs first. BREATHE and once the air flows free you might revisit what sort of assistance that you might be to others.

Peace.

 

[Red Right Ankle]

There’s a lot of thoughtful stuff here and I want to be equally thoughtful in my response, though I’m in a bad emotional state at the moment

I think the pay to play model is fundamentally to blame. These clubs cast huge nets and accept kids that are clearly only there to fill out numbers and absorb overhead. There’s some sifting for gold going on, certainly, but it’s largely just bringing dollars into the business. The elite team is ultimately the product, but there’s a lot going on that clearly has nothing to do with that product. Coaching seems to have a fairly high turnover with poor record keeping that would allow for more seamless transition year to year.

These clubs are highly competitive with other similar programs trying to draw in the same kids. So there isn’t really an alternate league, so to speak.

So how do these kids get into the team? In this case, I think it was because they were new to the program and only had a few highly focused, fast-paced evaluation sessions. Very little downtime to create disruption, and very little time to evaluate character.

Recruiting older players is a fascinating idea and one that I’d like to float in some capacity.

Unfortunately, today was a last straw and I’m done. I can’t go into detail. I’m emotionally drained and feeling a little overwhelmed by failure. Today’s transgression was so egregious that I suspect the parent that was present is going to make the decision for me. If not, there’s really no other recourse. In his current form he’s dangerous to the other players and it’s irresponsible to have him around. The nature of the sport and the job means the staff can’t have eyes dedicated to him at all times, and it literally only takes a second. Took a second, since it happened.

I have a lot to say, but let me thank you all for the education and support. This has literally changed my life as it took me on my own journey of discovery. I still feel that I let this kid down, and by extension those of you who trusted I’d do right by him. I’m truly, truly sorry.

You did what you could as a coach and given the support that you had. Ultimately, with kids with ADD/ADHD, the parents absolutely have to be partners with teachers, coaches and other authority figures in the child's life for any management plan to have a good chance to be successful. You weren't getting that.

 

[Rovin Romine]

I still feel that I let this kid down, and by extension those of you who trusted I’d do right by him. I’m truly, truly sorry.

It sounds like you did a lot for this kid and gave him a true chance. You went above and beyond to educate yourself and you (from our limited window into things) seemed to be an advocate for the child both within the program, and to some extent without it. I really and truly applaud that effort.

But your role is limited. You are not a parent, a relative, a medical professional, a social worker, or a teacher. And your influence is limited as well; you are one factor among many in the child's world.

It's interesting that you say that the parents might be more involved. Perhaps this will be a wake-up call for them, which might ultimately be for this child's long-term benefit. We can only hope.

I'd absolutely echo @YTF and caution you to take a moment for yourself. Do not beat yourself up over this. You did a good thing. Sometimes good things don't bear the fruit we hope for. But that's not your fault.

 

[SocrManiac]

I sent personalized notes to each parent on Christmas Eve, thanking each of them for allowing me to work with their sons and outlining my favorite moment, skill, attribute, trait… Whatever made sense. What I got back… Whenever I need a lift, I have a little library to go back to. Even the ones I was skeptical or nervous about were a joy.

The physical gifts were… A lot… Probably too much… But they won’t endure the way the messages will.

This has been one of the more challenging coaching and personal journeys I’ve had, but holy shit has it been worth it.

 

[uncannymanny]

I have this too. I call it Weaponized ADD.

I’ve never treated anything, but I have also put myself in situations where it’s not an issue. Were I a coder or writer or something it would be a complete fucking shitshow. I design and build service and policy which is short term and gives me a high. My biggest high is troubleshooting, which I also do.

It sounds like you can use this to your advantage coaching. You have 10+ kids all with different personalities, strengths and needs. What you are describing makes you the literal best person on paper to do the coaching that you are doing! The kids are very fortunate to have you.

Everyone is different, even the neurodivergent. I was diagnosed in 1984. Coding, and my engineering career generally, is probably what saved me from ending up homeless or poor.

 

[McDrew]

...I wish I’d been diagnosed earlier.

...My inattentiveness has been a barrier. My emotional dysregulation is what has prevented advancement.

I want to get certain aspects under control with therapy, but I’m realistic about the timeframe to make real and lasting change. In the meantime, I’m open to seeing what relief I might get chemically on a temporary or ongoing basis.

I wish I'd been diagnosed at 9 instead of 39. That being said, I got the best professional review of my career in 2023, and the improvements I've made because of medication and therapy are the principal reasons. I didn't get worse at anything by getting better. I'm just way more aware of the better decisions I can make. I've had the skills all along, it was my communication and focus issues that were preventing me from being most effective.

I'm sorry about the collateral damage caused by parents inability to take responsibility. You, your child, and the other kids deserve better.