I knew she looked familiar.That's great. Sure to become a game thread staple.
I knew she looked familiar.That's great. Sure to become a game thread staple.
Why should this ownership be criticized?Hiding behind the poor recent minority hiring numbers in all baseball doesn't justify squat - it just makes the Sox one of a number of teams that should be criticized. And even moreso than most other teams because at least a good number of those teams have hired minority managers in the past. Sorry, but the Sox should be scrutinized especially hard here because of their shameful history of lagging behind everyone else in breaking the color barrier on the field. The organization has made great strides in minority-related issues over the last few decades on multiple levels so there's that of course, but still, the first Latino (Preston Gomez) and black (Frank Robinson) managerial hires happened over 40 years ago, and for us, it was yesterday. I'm not trying to be a buzzkill - I'm very happy about the Cora signing including because he seemed by far the best candidate - but just feel that this sorry legacy should be acknowledged somewhere
It seems to me the Red Sox sorry legacy HAS been acknowledged in many places ad naseum. Can we move on now?Hiding behind the poor recent minority hiring numbers in all baseball doesn't justify squat - it just makes the Sox one of a number of teams that should be criticized. And even moreso than most other teams because at least a good number of those teams have hired minority managers in the past. Sorry, but the Sox should be scrutinized especially hard here because of their shameful history of lagging behind everyone else in breaking the color barrier on the field. The organization has made great strides in minority-related issues over the last few decades on multiple levels so there's that of course, but still, the first Latino (Preston Gomez) and black (Frank Robinson) managerial hires happened over 40 years ago, and for us, it was yesterday. I'm not trying to be a buzzkill - I'm very happy about the Cora signing including because he seemed by far the best candidate - but just feel that this sorry legacy should be acknowledged somewhere
One way or another I imagine Farrell ends up back in the Cleveland organization, either as pitching coach or in player development.Looks like Cleveland will be losing their pitching coach to the Mets. Wonder if Francona would bring in Farrell for that role again?
http://yourradioplace.com/local-sports-news/call-away-tribe-to-lose-pitching-coach/
Curt Young (friend of Tito) is rumored as the new Indians pitching coach.
Why was Hickey fired? I can't find a single article.
Signed through the coming season, Hickey had no sense a change was pending when he went into a Tuesday meeting with his bosses. A good guess would have been they wanted to talk about their plan to pull certain starters early from games and regularly use relievers for multi-inning stints.
"Going forward we probably had a little bit of a difference of opinion on the strategies employed to get the most out of our pitchers," Hickey said Tuesday night. "I only had one year left on my contract and I wasn't 100 percent on board with the direction, so we simply agreed to mutually part ways one year prior than we probably would have anyway."
Curt Young (friend of Tito) is rumored as the new Indians pitching coach.
Why was Hickey fired? I can't find a single article.
Not me. Anyone sentient who had endured Boston as a player should be just fine.Just about anybody is going to be an in-game and PR improvement over Farrell, but is anyone a little bit worried about having a first-time manager get the Red Sox job? Boston may not be the place for a first managerial position.
How do people say shit like this with a straight face?Just about anybody is going to be an in-game and PR improvement over Farrell
It's certainly something to watch. He appears to be an intelligent, composed guy, but playing UI for the Sox and managing the team are worlds apart in terms of press, pressure, fan focus, etc.is anyone a little bit worried about having a first-time manager get the Red Sox job? Boston may not be the place for a first managerial position.
I think this inflates what happens here. Farrell had his plusses and minuses. Cora will have his plusses and minuses - and I have no doubt he'll get a grace period. (I don't recall a serous group gunning for Farrell until his third season.)Not me. Anyone sentient who had endured Boston as a player should be just fine.
Edit. And this is NOT aimed at you. Anyone with priapism all season long over clipping Farrell would be wise to keep a low target profile at this point. All of these people knew the deal going in -- Tito's was not walking thru that door; Maddon was not going to be shaken lose from the Cubs, or Girardi from the Yankees. Look at the guys getting the openings (and I heard no drumbeat for Gardenhire). The non-available perfect should not be made the enemy of good.
I don't think I am exaggerating by much. And barring debilitating injury, if we're trailing in division by 8 come the ASB, I think we are going to see serious leash shrinkage.I think this inflates what happens here. Farrell had his plusses and minuses. Cora will have his plusses and minuses - and I have no doubt he'll get a grace period. (I don't recall a serous group gunning for Farrell until his third season.)
If Cora adapts and learns on the job, he'll be just fine, both in Boston and here. IMO the biggest things he could do in his first year to rile up the fan base is to somehow suggest the games don't matter, stake out and commit to a personal "quirk" or repeated "manager's decision" that's decidedly suboptimal, or break out the B squad when playing the Yanks.
Pretty much this. Im very happy and optimistic with the hire, but there's definitely a chance this turns into a downgrade.How do people say shit like this with a straight face?
Bobby Valentine--not a PR or in-game improvement over Farrell. Jimy Williams, Grady Little, Butch Hobson, Kevin Kennedy. Remember these fucking guys?
Don't get me wrong, I think Farrell was thoroughly mediocre, but holy fuck, have you completely lost all memory of what managers were like pre-Francona?
It's a lot easier to look like you'd be a good manager than to actually be a good manager. Alex Cora looks like he'll be a good manager but it could be completely obvious by the all-star break that he's a goddamn nightmare. We don't fucking know and if there's one goddamn thing we should have learned by the time we graduate from fucking kindergarten, it's that THINGS CAN ALWAYS GET WORSE.
Of course it is. I mean, of fucking course it is. Systemic racism doesn't simply mean that the people making hiring decisions look at a bunch of equally experienced and talented people and always pick the white guy. Systemic racism means it's much, much easier for the white guys to get the chance to show their talent and to get the experience that shows up on a resume to make them a candidate worth interviewing in the first place.He’s not Pumpsie Green either. We’re taking about one job filled by one person, for typically multiple years at a time. The position of Red Sox manager wasn't entrenched in some systemic racism.
You should be better than this.But if you want to feel better, just pretend the other Joe Morgan was our manager back in the 80s.
The options weren't limited to Dusty Baker or a first-time manager. The question I raised was whether people see enough good in Alex Cora to outweigh his lack of experience. That is all.I don't think I am exaggerating by much. And barring debilitating injury, if we're trailing in division by 8 come the ASB, I think we are going to see serious leash shrinkage.
The implicit demand for an off-the-shelf no-warts manager astounds me, but I suppose that's my naïveté as much as anything else.
As you note, people have strengths and weaknesses; complete packages are very rare (and earn $7 MM a year).
For example, one guy available is THE perfect person to address CC's concerns. Dusty Baker.
He would with great dignity and humor politely tell everyone in town not in the clubhouse or executive suite to go fuck themselves. Players would love him. He would play them all, overcome crises, and we'd have a well rested and primed club come early October. We'd likely get those 95 to 97 wins.
BUT, his lineups would drive us all crazy. His intuitive approach would have some of us institutionalized. And come playoff time, he would be tactically outmanaged -- and we know this because the sample size is pretty big and it happens pretty much all the time. Heads would explode.
There are no Dusty-Cora clones. At least that I am aware of. Given the success of this franchise this century, some people would do well to grow up.
I am fully on board with the Cora signing and it will be fascinating to watch Castillo next spring, especially if/when and by how much the Sox spend beyond the luxury tax threshold. FWIW, this year Castillo hit .314 with a .350 on-base percentage, .507 slugging percentage, 15 homers, 22 doubles, and 14/16 stolen bases in 87 games. Putting aside the contract and the disappointing history, I think we'd love to see that stat line invited to spring training with a shot at the 4th outfielder position.I
And one person who has to be happy with the hiring is Rusney Castillo. Cora is his biggest booster, and since the Sox will be over the luxury tax anyway, maybe Rusney gets a chance to fill Chris Young's role next year.
Being over doesn't mean it doesn't matter how far over they go. They won't let their payroll get over 237M next year because they can't afford to have their 1st round pick knocked back 10 spots when they have one of the 5 worst farm systems in the game going into next season.I am fully on board with the Cora signing and it will be fascinating to watch Castillo next spring, especially if/when and by how much the Sox spend beyond the luxury tax threshold. FWIW, this year Castillo hit .314 with a .350 on-base percentage, .507 slugging percentage, 15 homers, 22 doubles, and 14/16 stolen bases in 87 games. Putting aside the contract and the disappointing history, I think we'd love to see that stat line invited to spring training with a shot at the 4th outfielder position.
Agree they won't go over the +$40 million threshold, but, if they are between +20 and +40 million (with I believe the additional 12% surtax) it will be an interesting decision, especially if Castillo performs well.Being over doesn't mean it doesn't matter how far over they go. They won't let their payroll get over 237M next year because they can't afford to have their 1st round pick knocked back 10 spots when they have one of the 5 worst farm systems in the game going into next season.
And they'll need room to maneuver in season as well. So if they make a big signing (like Martinez) they're is no chance Rusney gets a shot at a roster spot.
You know who else was on that 2007 team? Kevin Cash.Kyle Snyder, who used to pitch for the Sox? That Kyle Snyder?
This guy?
There are several reasons I'm less concerned about Cora than I might be about another first-timer in Boston. One is that he had a reputation as a stand-up guy as a player and never shrunk from the media after a tough game. I believe that quality is going to serve him well - I don't see him getting all defensive when he or the team are criticized or lose a few games in a row. His time spent at ESPN also doesn't hurt, in terms of at least having some understanding of how sports media operates.Just about anybody is going to be an in-game and PR improvement over Farrell, but is anyone a little bit worried about having a first-time manager get the Red Sox job? Boston may not be the place for a first managerial position.
1. Why do we have a general manager in 2017 who is "admittedly not well versed in analytics"?
2. Cora being besties with Pedroia could be good or it could be bad.
3. NYC is not part of NE.1. Why do we have a general manager in 2017 who is "admittedly not well versed in analytics"?
2. Cora being besties with Pedroia could be good or it could be bad.
His job is to hire those people and take their input, not do it himself.1. Why do we have a general manager in 2017 who is "admittedly not well versed in analytics"?
2. Cora being besties with Pedroia could be good or it could be bad.
He is so difficult to read.
Yeah, I'm aware of that. But do you see any evidence that the Red Sox have remained on the leading edge of this stuff in MLB?His job is to hire those people and take their input, not do it himself.
Not sure if it's 'cutting edge', but there's this:Yeah, I'm aware of that. But do you see any evidence that the Red Sox have remained on the leading edge of this stuff in MLB?
This also suggests that the portrayal of DD as a baseball analytics Luddite may be in error:Rather than continue piecemeal modifications to Carmine, the Red Sox decided in 2015 — when Ben Cherington was GM, and shortly before Dave Dombrowski was hired as president of baseball operations — that they would engage in a comprehensive overhaul of their information systems.
...
“We had that conversation right around the time of the transition from Ben to Dave — right before. Then we had a conversation with John and Dave that that was not going to change this initiative. We still wanted to grow in this area.”
Dombrowski, who had a very small analytics department with the Tigers, recognized the value of Boston’s more robust infrastructure. Even though Detroit had been on the sidelines for much of baseball’s analytics revolution, Dombrowski quickly came to appreciate how that field was changing. He was on board with the planned expansion of the IT staff, which now features five full-time software developers as well as six full-time analysts in baseball operations. A seventh, Bill James, has a broader title of “senior adviser.”
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/02/22/the-red-sox-are-retiring-carmine-for-new-analytics-machine/z6UlF4IIGzY3Q3lQQIBK2N/story.html?s_campaign=bdc:article:stub“[New senior baseball systems developer Fred Hubert] has got a nuclear physicist-type background and I’m just amazed when you turn to the résumés of individuals and you look at what they’ve done and how impressive a group of people they are.”
It is a group to whom Dombrowski turns for different sorts of insight, whether seeking coaching and player development ideas from director of pitching analysis Brian Bannister and Dave Bush or seeking reports from Scott on questions related to player acquisition, most notably with Chris Sale (comparing Sale’s projected value to that of prospects Yoan Moncada and Michael Kopech) and David Price (examining his potential aging curves in determining fair market value when the lefthander was a free agent).
In all your time in the front office you didn’t see anything?Yeah, I'm aware of that. But do you see any evidence that the Red Sox have remained on the leading edge of this stuff in MLB?
I don't. And it's starting to bear itself out on the field, IMHO.
Oh, I missed the requirement on the SOSH entry form where you need to have worked in the organization to comment on it.In all your time in the front office you didn’t see anything?
Like Sale, Kimbrel, and Pomeranz? I'm on board.Oh, I missed the requirement on the SOSH entry form where you need to have worked in the organization to comment on it.
I'm sure everything is in fine order, though. Dombrowski can just keep throwing tons of prospects and money at whatever shiny toy is available and I'm sure the Sox will improve that way over time.
I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about what happens when he runs out of prospects and payroll and still hasn't won a championship.Like Sale, Kimbrel, and Pomeranz? I'm on board.
I'm not seeing a prospect dealt for anyone else that is going to have much of an impact down the line, do you?
He is using prospects exactly the way they are meant to be used for a big market team. I'd love to keep the player development machine rolling, but there are different ways to win. The payroll mess was not created under his watch.I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about what happens when he runs out of prospects and payroll and still hasn't won a championship.
You said you didn’t “see it”. I’m wondering how you’re evaluating that. You had no problem asking me to prove otherwise.Oh, I missed the requirement on the SOSH entry form where you need to have worked in the organization to comment on it.
I'm sure everything is in fine order, though. Dombrowski can just keep throwing tons of prospects and money at whatever shiny toy is available and I'm sure the Sox will improve that way over time.
Which makes him no different than any other GM the Sox might have.I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about what happens when he runs out of prospects and payroll and still hasn't won a championship.
You start over. Just like every other team with a particular window that doesn't take the entire thing down.I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about what happens when he runs out of prospects and payroll and still hasn't won a championship.
You start over. Just like every other team with a particular window that doesn't take the entire thing down.
The goal is the World Series, but when did it become the expectation? Sometimes, shit just happens and you don't win and it's really nobody's fault in particular. Pitchers have off days. Batters go cold and nobody knows why. A ball bounces over a wall instead of kicking back toward the field. A catcher throws a bullet that's just ever-so-slightly off and a guy stealing second is safe and eventually gets hit in by Bill Mueller. Stuff like that.
I know most posters have a significant soft spot for the youngins, but really, what players have been traded that would've been impact players on our playing field right now? What trades did Dombrowski make that were considered disastrous (you can file Thornburg/Shaw under that one, only with hindsight, but Shaw wasn't even close to a prospect.)
I'm happy if the team is performing well and to expectations. My expectation with our payroll and lineup is to compete for the division and be competitive in the playoffs, not be hands-down favorites to win it all every single season, but perhaps that's unrealistic.
Not every prospect is going to play for your major league club, as there are only so many spots to go around. The most important job of the front office is determining which ones are gonna be something, and which are expendable (you can't just keep those guys rotting away in the minors, its best to sell while they have value).I'm sure everything is in fine order, though. Dombrowski can just keep throwing tons of prospects and money at whatever shiny toy is available and I'm sure the Sox will improve that way over time.
Manuel Margot put up 1.9 fWAR/2.5 bWAR this year getting paid nothing while Kimbrel cost $13 million. Yeah, Margot didn't have a place with this team given the outfielders they have, and with how the market has shaped up in the past few years for elite relief pitchers I view that trade more favorably than I did when it was made, but in hindsight maybe DD should have gotten more for him.Has anyone traded for Sale, Kimbrel, or Pomeranz gone on to be something yet?
Trading what you just admitted was an asset with more value to someone else than the Red Sox for someone who fills a need is exactly what DD is supposed to do. And to get someone of the caliber of Kimberly you have to give up WAR to get WAR.Manuel Margot put up 1.9 fWAR/2.5 bWAR this year getting paid nothing while Kimbrel cost $13 million. Yeah, Margot didn't have a place with this team given the outfielders they have, and with how the market has shaped up in the past few years for elite relief pitchers I view that trade more favorably than I did when it was made, but in hindsight maybe DD should have gotten more for him.
This is a great example of how WAR falls short in capturing the value of relievers (especially elite relievers) relative to other players.Manuel Margot put up 1.9 fWAR/2.5 bWAR this year getting paid nothing while Kimbrel cost $13 million. Yeah, Margot didn't have a place with this team given the outfielders they have, and with how the market has shaped up in the past few years for elite relief pitchers I view that trade more favorably than I did when it was made, but in hindsight maybe DD should have gotten more for him.
WAR isn’t a good evaluation of RPs. I thought that was proven a few years ago.This is a great example of how WAR falls short in capturing the value of relievers (especially elite relievers) relative to other players.
To suggest that Kimbrel and Margot are in the same stratosphere for value on the field is absurd.
Gotten more? He got one of the best relievers in baseball, and you didn't replace one really good reliever with another. You added Kimbrel right onto the back end of the pen (a pen which was quite weak at the time,) which slides out the worst reliever at the time and makes everyone else better by doing so. It's a trickle down effect. Trading from an area of excess to address an area of need and acquiring proven major-league talent for unproven minor-league talent.Manuel Margot put up 1.9 fWAR/2.5 bWAR this year getting paid nothing while Kimbrel cost $13 million. Yeah, Margot didn't have a place with this team given the outfielders they have, and with how the market has shaped up in the past few years for elite relief pitchers I view that trade more favorably than I did when it was made, but in hindsight maybe DD should have gotten more for him.