Alex Smith traded to Redskins and signs 4 year extension

Lose Remerswaal

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There's got to be another team owner (Jones? Snyder? MARA???) who knows a supermodel he can introduce to his star QB so they can underpay that QB like the Pats can do with Brady. There's inefficiencies here, people.
 

snowmanny

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Foles has a year left on his deal. And I can’t believe that Jay Cutler will be a hot commodity.

Still, a crazy offseason for QBs.

Edit: oh, and Dan Snyder is a moron.
On Foles I meant he might get traded, especially if he has a good week.
 

Average Reds

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On Foles I meant he might get traded, especially if he has a good week.
A fair point, but given the severity of Wentz’ injury - torn ACL and LCL, along with a partially torn IT band - I don’t think Foles is going anywhere.

This scenario is precisely why he was signed in the first place.
 
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singaporesoxfan

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There's got to be another team owner (Jones? Snyder? MARA???) who knows a supermodel he can introduce to his star QB so they can underpay that QB like the Pats can do with Brady. There's inefficiencies here, people.
Jones would introduce a supermodel to his star QB. Snyder would try to charge both the QB and the supermodel $29.50 each for the right to have a conversation with each other.
 

edmunddantes

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Proof again that there is no fixing stupid — and that Snyder and Allen are vindictive:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22315705/washington-redskins-consider-placing-franchise-tag-kirk-cousins

Kirk need only tell potential suitors one thing: do not engage the Redskina on me; repeat, do NOT. Then immediately sign the tag. The Redskins then would be dead.
This would be the stupidest form of vindictive. Kirk doesn't even need to tell his potential suitors that. The moment he gets the offer, he should sign the tag immediately and get all the leverage. Teams aren't going to want to trade anything to the Skins for the right to pay $34M to Cousins with no long term deal in place. If anything, the Skins would have to send a pick to the team that takes him, a la Brock Osweiler, to get the weight off their cap. Teams might trade something to Washington if they have the structure of a deal in place for Cousins, but then since they'd be negotiating with a Cousins with a base of $34M, that deal is likely even better for Cousins than if he wasn't franchised. Which means those teams are going to give the Skins less, and possibly less than the likely-3rd round pick in 2019.
 

Reverend

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Proof again that there is no fixing stupid — and that Snyder and Allen are vindictive:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22315705/washington-redskins-consider-placing-franchise-tag-kirk-cousins

Kirk need only tell potential suitors one thing: do not engage the Redskina on me; repeat, do NOT. Then immediately sign the tag. The Redskins then would be dead.
Shades of Parcells trying to control Belichick with his Jets moves.

As I recall the, the football gods did not favor that behavior.
 

Average Reds

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Proof again that there is no fixing stupid — and that Snyder and Allen are vindictive:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22315705/washington-redskins-consider-placing-franchise-tag-kirk-cousins

Kirk need only tell potential suitors one thing: do not engage the Redskina on me; repeat, do NOT. Then immediately sign the tag. The Redskins then would be dead.
Been driving all day so I could not respond. That said, I’m in shock at the idiocy here. I mean, MEMO TO DANNY: EVERYONE KNOWS YOU'VE ALREADY SIGNED SMITH.

What, exactly, does Snyder think he’s accomplishing by leaking such a ridiculous rumor? “Trade with me or I swear I will blow up my own franchise!!!”
 

dcmissle

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Been driving all day so I could not respond. That said, I’m in shock at the idiocy here. I mean, MEMO TO DANNY: EVERYONE KNOWS YOU'VE ALREADY SIGNED SMITH.

What, exactly, does Snyder think he’s accomplishing by leaking such a ridiculous rumor? “Trade with me or I swear I will blow up my own franchise!!!”
I think Snyder/Allen will be talked off the bridge railing -- after Kirk's agent says, make my day.

This would be a marketing disaster, and they know marketing.

This is why I more than occasionally refer to NFL owners as 11 year old boys -- esp the Snyders. He is so fucking pissed that Kirk Cousins mauled him at business.

EDIT. I mean what's the threat here -- we'll franchise you, keep you on the bench behind Smith, eff up your market value for future years, all the while paying you $34 million and entirely screwing the 2018 Washington Redskins?
 

Van Everyman

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After reading that amazing City Paper piece from a decade ago I feel comfortable saying that Dan Snyder is the single worst owner in professional sports and it’s not particularly close.
 

snowmanny

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Been driving all day so I could not respond. That said, I’m in shock at the idiocy here. I mean, MEMO TO DANNY: EVERYONE KNOWS YOU'VE ALREADY SIGNED SMITH.

What, exactly, does Snyder think he’s accomplishing by leaking such a ridiculous rumor? “Trade with me or I swear I will blow up my own franchise!!!”
 

dcmissle

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Zooming out a bit, it’s incredible to think: Cousins fucking saved this team from being in Siberia for another decade after the RGIII debacle. And...this is how they treat him.

Snyder gonna Snyder ...
 

Rough Carrigan

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Zooming out a bit, it’s incredible to think: Cousins fucking saved this team from being in Siberia for another decade after the RGIII debacle. And...this is how they treat him.

Snyder gonna Snyder ...
Bill James used to always say that one of the hallmarks of losing baseball organizations is that they blamed their best players for not being even better rather than blaming themselves for not putting other good players around them.
 

InstaFace

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EDIT. I mean what's the threat here -- we'll franchise you, keep you on the bench behind Smith, eff up your market value for future years, all the while paying you $34 million and entirely screwing the 2018 Washington Redskins?
Yeah, but then once they franchise him again at $41M for 2019, then they'll really have him over a barrel! And then, we take over the world!
 

Super Nomario

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Zooming out a bit, it’s incredible to think: Cousins fucking saved this team from being in Siberia for another decade after the RGIII debacle. And...this is how they treat him.

Snyder gonna Snyder ...
They went 24-23-1 in Cousins' three years as starter. And they paid him a ton of money, and he gets to hit free agency and pick his spot and make even more money. I don't see Cousins as poorly-treated.

I think it was a pretty reasonable to decision to go year-to-year on Cousins and ultimately let him walk. But Washington was dumb not to work on a plan B in parallel, and I'm not a big fan of this Smith trade either.
 

Average Reds

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They went 24-23-1 in Cousins' three years as starter. And they paid him a ton of money, and he gets to hit free agency and pick his spot and make even more money. I don't see Cousins as poorly-treated.

I think it was a pretty reasonable to decision to go year-to-year on Cousins and ultimately let him walk. But Washington was dumb not to work on a plan B in parallel, and I'm not a big fan of this Smith trade either.
By going year-to-year, Snyder put a long-term plan for the franchise on hold, enriched his QB while simultaneously alienating him and, now, stands to lose him for nothing. In response, he traded away a useful young player and a draft pick for a significantly older, less-talented version of the QB who is walking away from him.

You have a high burden of proof if you want to claim that Snyder didn't completely fuck up his handling of Cousins.
 

dcmissle

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Yeah, but then once they franchise him again at $41M for 2019, then they'll really have him over a barrel! And then, we take over the world!
That’s one reason why this tag-and-trade stuff is crazy — even if Cousins signed the franchise tender. He could and probably would refuse to negotiate an extended deal, as a matter of principle.

What are you giving up in a trade to pay him 34.5 this year and 41 the year after?

Cousins has netted 44 from franchise tags already.
 

Sportsbstn

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That’s one reason why this tag-and-trade stuff is crazy — even if Cousins signed the franchise tender. He could and probably would refuse to negotiate an extended deal, as a matter of principle.

What are you giving up in a trade to pay him 34.5 this year and 41 the year after?

Cousins has netted 44 from franchise tags already.
I would put the chance on the Redskins franchising him at about .001%, they just aren’t doing it. Cousins could do a lot to wreak havoc. This seems to be a lot of speculation from writers again (nothing new there), but Washington would be hurting itself in so many ways. Cousins will be free to move on, I’d bet a ton of money on it.
 

Super Nomario

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By going year-to-year, Snyder put a long-term plan for the franchise on hold, enriched his QB while simultaneously alienating him and, now, stands to lose him for nothing. In response, he traded away a useful young player and a draft pick for a significantly older, less-talented version of the QB who is walking away from him.

You have a high burden of proof if you want to claim that Snyder didn't completely fuck up his handling of Cousins.
If you read what I wrote, it's pretty clear that I did not claim that.

I do think it was not an easy decision. Cousins to me is pretty firmly in that tier that makes it almost impossible to win a championship unless everything goes right. He's an averageish QB who's going to get paid like a top-end guy because there aren't enough averageish QBs to fill out 32 teams. We make fun of the Flacco deal all the time and I don't know why giving Cousins a similar deal is a better use of money. But Washington did a terrible job developing alternatives, and the Alex Smith move creates the same kind of problems for arguably a worse player, certainly an older one, at the cost of a pick and a player as well. It doesn't really seem like they had a plan.
 

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If you read what I wrote, it's pretty clear that I did not claim that.

I do think it was not an easy decision. Cousins to me is pretty firmly in that tier that makes it almost impossible to win a championship unless everything goes right. He's an averageish QB who's going to get paid like a top-end guy because there aren't enough averageish QBs to fill out 32 teams. We make fun of the Flacco deal all the time and I don't know why giving Cousins a similar deal is a better use of money. But Washington did a terrible job developing alternatives, and the Alex Smith move creates the same kind of problems for arguably a worse player, certainly an older one, at the cost of a pick and a player as well. It doesn't really seem like they had a plan.
To what extent do guys like Cousins seem more overpaid than perhaps they are due to top QBs being underpaid in terms of value?

QB pay is kinda weird in the NFL, as has been noted.
 

Super Nomario

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To what extent do guys like Cousins seem more overpaid than perhaps they are due to top QBs being underpaid in terms of value?

QB pay is kinda weird in the NFL, as has been noted.
They don't seem to be overpaid because the top of the market is depressed, they are overpaid because the top of the market is depressed. Because you're paying Cousins $25 MM and you have to compete with the Packers and Saints getting MVP performance for that same $25 MM. And then you're also competing with guys like Wentz and Dak Prescott who are giving good performance for peanuts on rookie contracts. The market is distorted at the top and at the bottom, leaving the teams in the middle at a disadvantage.

(To clarify: I mean overpaid in a football sense, at least when it comes to winning championships. Cousins isn't overpaid in an economics sense. And if your priority is just avoiding 5-11 seasons, rather than trying to win championships, paying Cousins $25 MM makes sense)
 

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Kendall Fuller is a good corner too. When the trade was announced that KC got Fuller too shocked me.
 

dcmissle

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Kendall Fuller is a good corner too. When the trade was announced that KC got Fuller too shocked me.
They were paying for past sins when they had to part with him. Alex Smith was the best solution to a very bad problem of their own making.

Now let’s see if they triple down on stupid. They need more help than the draft can provide short term, and tagging Cousins will destroy their FA plans.
 

NortheasternPJ

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We may get a look at Cousins twice a year —

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/19/report-jets-will-pay-whatever-it-takes-to-get-kirk-cousins/

He is better than average, IMO. He really proved his mettle this year. His o-line was a MASH unit. Other than Chris Thompson, he had hot garbage at the skill positions — Crowder is a decent 2 or 3, everybody else sucked or got hurt. Cousins produced.

Thought experiment — switch rosters for Counsins and Alex Smith LAST season.
Only the Jets would leak this out. Can’t wait until they’re paying Cousins $40 mill a year fully guaranteed and cripple their cap for 5 years and I like Cousins so this isn’t a reflection on him.
 

InstaFace

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Here's a charitable idea for the possible game of chicken the Redskins might be engaging in here.

1) Redskins tag Cousins and send him the offer paperwork. Out of spite, he sits on it. Redskins expect this.
2) Cousins knows he can sign it on July 15th, and in the meantime he's applying leverage to Redskins, so he sits on it. Meanwhile, the hottest parts of free agency season are going on and teams are forced to make plans.
3) A month later, let's say closer to the draft, Redskins rescind the tag, which they can do up until it's signed, freeing up $34.5M on their cap and allowing them to pursue any residual, probably mid-market free agents out there to round out their roster behind Smith.
4) At this point, the top destinations for Cousins have probably moved on, because the "premium" / QB portions of the free agency season are largely behind them. Cousins is now an unrestricted free agent, but his best choices, the ones that would have given him true market value, have committed themselves in another direction.
5) Washington is slightly screwed out of deals they would have struck beforehand, unless they can negotiate a handshake agreement with players willing to wait until this drama plays out. However, Cousins is much more screwed than they are. And they may consider that a win, in their twisted view of the world.

Of course, for this to happen, Cousins has to not sign his tag so they can rescind it before he does. If they tag him tomorrow and he signs it wednesday, Washington is more screwed than Cousins is. But perhaps they're betting on him not doing that.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Why would Washington bother, though? They hurt their ability to sign the right FAs solely to stick it to Cousins. That's just irrational. I have no great enthusiasm for their management team, but the above scenario would get them no help in FA and a likely grievance.
 

InstaFace

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wait, you're objecting to the possibility of a connivance by the Washington Redskins because it would be "irrational"?

If this were the Patriots or San Antonio Spurs or Oakland Athletics, I'd agree with you. But we're talking peak "madness of king George Steinbrenner" here.
 

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I, for one, am looking forward to Dan Snyder admitting he was wrong, cutting his losses and putting the good of his team and a player before his ego by letting Kirk Cousins go into free agency. What could possibly get in the way?
 

Average Reds

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If you read what I wrote, it's pretty clear that I did not claim that.
What you wrote is that it was “pretty reasonable to go year to year ... and ultimately, to let him walk.” And I am saying that no, how they handled Cousins was completely unreasonable and ultimately self-destructive.

I also disagree with the idea that Smith and Cousins are interchangeable, but YMMV.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Insta, personally if I was Cousins I would SIGN it out of spite, not sit on it.
I'd sign it because he'd be getting $34.5 million guaranteed for the year. He'd be able to screw the Redskins and then have a choice of making $34.5 this year or using that as the starting point to a negotiation for a reworked contract.

He was willing to sign the last two at lesser value, I don't see why he wouldn't this year. $34.5 guaranteed now for 1 year or say $70 million guaranteed for 3? He seems more than willing to bet on himself.
 

Super Nomario

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What you wrote is that it was “pretty reasonable to go year to year ... and ultimately, to let him walk.” And I am saying that no, how they handled Cousins was completely unreasonable and ultimately self-destructive.
I agree with the second sentence, but I stand by mine, too (well, except for my typo). There were reasonable and coherent ways to go year-to-year (buy time while grooming a youngster behind Cousins), but Washington didn't do any of those. I don't think any of the options - sign Cousins long-term, trade him for some return and have no QB, or go year-to-year - were great, but Washington played a bad hand poorly.

I also disagree with the idea that Smith and Cousins are interchangeable, but YMMV.
Who said this?
 

dcmissle

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Why would Washington bother, though? They hurt their ability to sign the right FAs solely to stick it to Cousins. That's just irrational. I have no great enthusiasm for their management team, but the above scenario would get them no help in FA and a likely grievance.
Irrational spite is how they roll.

Rescinding the tag is Cousins’ downside. But at least one team with big pockets will wait for him. Just like the Redskins jumped in on Josh Norman after Carolina rescinded its tag, out of spite.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Irrational spite is how they roll.

Rescinding the tag is Cousins’ downside. But at least one team with big pockets will wait for him. Just like the Redskins jumped in on Josh Norman after Carolina rescinded its tag, out of spite.
If they put the tag on him, why doesn't he sign it immediately?

He can sign it, then not play all year in a worst case scenario and then get another huge paycheck with a year off. Medium case is he gets traded to somewhere he doesn't want to play, then they tag him again (for $40m) or let him go to FA.
 

dcmissle

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If they put the tag on him, why doesn't he sign it immediately?

He can sign it, then not play all year in a worst case scenario and then get another huge paycheck with a year off. Medium case is he gets traded to somewhere he doesn't want to play, then they tag him again (for $40m) or let him go to FA.
That’s what he said he would do before the trade for Smith, and that’s an avenue available to him.

What I do not know is whether they can mutually rescind it under NFL rules once they tag and he signs. Cuz it I really is in his best interest to be out of this insane asylum.

I do believe, as a matter of principle, that he’ll be very adverse to facilitating a tag and trade. I would be a bit surprised if his agent is not telling would be suitors — don’t offer Washington a damn thing.

Bottom line for out of towners trying to fathom Redskins’ mindset — think Larry Lucchino, but not nearly as smart.
 

NortheasternPJ

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That’s what he said he would do before the trade for Smith, and that’s an avenue available to him.

What I do not know is whether they can mutually rescind it under NFL rules once they tag and he signs. Cuz it I really is in his best interest to be out of this insane asylum.

I do believe, as a matter of principle, that he’ll be very adverse to facilitating a tag and trade. I would be a bit surprised if his agent is not telling would be suitors — don’t offer Washington a damn thing.

Bottom line for out of towners trying to fathom Redskins’ mindset — think Larry Lucchino, but not nearly as smart.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000785958/article/what-to-know-about-nfl-franchise-tag-designations

Teams can rescind the franchise or transition tag -- as we saw with Josh Norman last year -- if the offer sheet hasn't been signed. Once the sheet is signed, the player's salary is guaranteed for that season. A rescinded tag counts as a tag, meaning a team can't designate one player, rescind it and use a new tag on another player in the same year.
So unless they want to basically commit some sort of fraud and claim they revoked it or never received it, once he signs it they're done.
 

dcmissle

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Thank you PJ. So if he signs, he either can work with them to facilitate a trade -- which neither he nor the NFLPA really want at this point -- or he is at the mercy of the Redskins and other teams. It's entirely plausible, if unlikely, that he is stuck in Washington next season if he signs it. What an s-storm that would be.
 

jk333

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Thank you PJ. So if he signs, he either can work with them to facilitate a trade -- which neither he nor the NFLPA really want at this point -- or he is at the mercy of the Redskins and other teams. It's entirely plausible, if unlikely, that he is stuck in Washington next season if he signs it. What an s-storm that would be.
Wouldn’t being the backup for $34M maximize his long term earnings? Because presumably he’d still have similar contract offers next offseason for nearly the same guarantees but with this year’s money in the bank.

On the other hand, he loses another year of his career. And he may not have a team as desperate as the Jets next year.

Long story short, I’d just sign it but he’s already rich and I understand the appeal of playing for a team that wants him as the long term starter.
 

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Here's a charitable idea for the possible game of chicken the Redskins might be engaging in here.

1) Redskins tag Cousins and send him the offer paperwork. Out of spite, he sits on it. Redskins expect this.
2) Cousins knows he can sign it on July 15th, and in the meantime he's applying leverage to Redskins, so he sits on it. Meanwhile, the hottest parts of free agency season are going on and teams are forced to make plans.
3) A month later, let's say closer to the draft, Redskins rescind the tag, which they can do up until it's signed, freeing up $34.5M on their cap and allowing them to pursue any residual, probably mid-market free agents out there to round out their roster behind Smith.
4) At this point, the top destinations for Cousins have probably moved on, because the "premium" / QB portions of the free agency season are largely behind them. Cousins is now an unrestricted free agent, but his best choices, the ones that would have given him true market value, have committed themselves in another direction.
5) Washington is slightly screwed out of deals they would have struck beforehand, unless they can negotiate a handshake agreement with players willing to wait until this drama plays out. However, Cousins is much more screwed than they are. And they may consider that a win, in their twisted view of the world.

Of course, for this to happen, Cousins has to not sign his tag so they can rescind it before he does. If they tag him tomorrow and he signs it wednesday, Washington is more screwed than Cousins is. But perhaps they're betting on him not doing that.
Reasonable people can disagree with the course he’s chosen, but Cousins has been shrewdly advised throughout. No way he’d let the rug get pulled out from under him like that.

If he signs the tag and then refuses to agree to an extension, Washington is well and truly fucked. Even Dan Snyder is smart enough to see that. Besides, the only way Snyder comes out of this looking anything but stupid is if Cousins signs elsewhere and fails; obviously, letting Cousins sign elsewhere is a condition precedent to that outcome.