All A-Rod talk here

Average Reds

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Rovin Romine said:
Sweet.  A-Rod "takes full responsibility" but:
 
Does not admit to doing PEDs.
Does not promise never to do PEDs again.
Does not apologize to any of the folks he demonized at the arb hearing.
Does not explain why he did what he did - either the PEDs or the hearing.  
Does not apologize to the fans (per se). 
Does not apologize for being a bad role model to kids.
Does not apologize to his fellow players.
 
Also, there's no atonement.  While it's not strictly necessary for an apology, usually people who feel bad about what they did try to correct it or compensate for it in some way.  How much of a stretch is it for him to speak out against PED use?  In, say, high school kids? Or kick some money to a charity or anti-PED program/group.
 
I'm sure he'd like to think the matter is "over" - but it's not. 
 
This guy is just as out of whack as he ever was. 
 
Let's talk about the only moral issue of consequence.
 
Did he ever pay his lawyers?
 

TheYaz67

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Average Reds said:
 
Let's talk about the only moral issue of consequence.
 
Did he ever pay his lawyers?
 
They are working on commission - aka protecting his upcoming $6 million HR milestone bonus payment....
 

soxhop411

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Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
Girardi talked to A-Rod about playing some 1B this spring #Yankees
 

Average Reds

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TheYaz67 said:
 
They are working on commission - aka protecting his upcoming $6 million HR milestone bonus payment....
 
I was mostly joking (it's a riff from the otherwise awful movie Indecent Proposal) but my recollection is that he tried to stiff Joe Tacopina and owed him something like $3 million after his appeal of punishment for PED use went down in flames.
 

jon abbey

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Beat writers seem to be assuming that A-Rod's best fit for this team is as the DH against LHP, with I guess Garrett Jones and Beltran handling it against RHP. But none of them seem to remember that during his post-2009 decline, A-Rod has been worse against LHP 3 of 4 seasons. I don't know how to lump together season splits or I would, because it would be a more meaningful sample, but:

OPS against RHP/LHP
 
2010: .883/.755
2011: .848/.750
2012: .717/.924
2013: .856/.585
 
Garrett Jones has a career .811/.573 split, so it's maybe just a case of being a bit less awful than that, but I thought the reverse splits were worth noting at least. 
 

nattysez

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I am rooting hard for Slappy to hit 6 HR.
 
 
TAMPA, Fla. -– The Yankees have long been presumed to be on the hook for up to $30 million in home run milestone bonuses to their disgraced superstar Alex Rodriguez, and they still may be, but thanks to the wording in the marketing agreement and maybe also the ability to put Rodriguez under oath in a potential grievance hearing, the team is said to believe it has a strong chance to avoid all the milestone money payments.
 
 
 

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nattysez said:
There's a snippet from the contract in that article that should be cross-posted to the grammar thread:
 
 “The Yankees are under no obligation to exercise its right to designate a historical accomplishment as a milestone provided that its decision is made in good faith and in accordance with the intent of the parties in the covenant.
 

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Joe D Reid said:
There's a snippet from the contract in that article that should be cross-posted to the grammar thread:
 
 “The Yankees are under no obligation to exercise its right to designate a historical accomplishment as a milestone provided that its decision is made in good faith and in accordance with the intent of the parties in the covenant.
 
So, as others have said - I guess this invalidates the 2009 season...or is it just the other seasons that don't count toward the milestone?
 

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Joe D Reid said:
There's a snippet from the contract in that article that should be cross-posted to the grammar thread:
 
 “The Yankees are under no obligation to exercise its right to designate a historical accomplishment as a milestone provided that its decision is made in good faith and in accordance with the intent of the parties in the covenant.
 
So does anyone believe it was Arods intent to give them that option?.  Without reading the covenant, my guess is this clause was to give the Yankees the right to change the milestone at a later point if circumstances dictated provided both parties were in agreement.  However, this was like any other incentive bonus, a way to reduced the guaranteed portion of the deal. Termed a marketing agreement to skirt the prohibition against perfroamnce bonuses. 
 
My guess is the Yankees want to change it from Mays record to something else, perhaps something unattainable.  If it goes to arbitration I doubt Arod even contests it since its doubtful he gets a fair shake there.  That 6 million is probably 3 million after taxes, and while thats not chump change, for a guy who has a net worth over 300 million and non-baseball income of 20 million a year,  he may write it off.   Personally I suspect he is more focused on 3000 hits and being able to play out the next 3 years
 

jon abbey

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If NY released him before he hit any more HRs, and someone else picked him up and he hit 6 HRs for them, that would presumably trigger the clause for NY still?
 
I think he would have to look really really awful for them to release him before next offseason at least, but just curious how that would play out (ignoring whether or not NY can invalidate that clause). 
 

NDame616

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jon abbey said:
If NY released him before he hit any more HRs, and someone else picked him up and he hit 6 HRs for them, that would presumably trigger the clause for NY still?
 
I think he would have to look really really awful for them to release him before next offseason at least, but just curious how that would play out (ignoring whether or not NY can invalidate that clause). 
 
Someone smarter than I can correct me, but if they release him then they terminate and void the contract and the new team signs a new contract....
 

LahoudOrBillyC

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No. If NY releases him they are still bound to all of the terms of the contract. A new team would sign him for the major league minimum. Yankees still owe the 61M plus the incentives (minus the minimum that new team pays).
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, they definitely have to pay him the salary, or he'd have been cut last year. They probably have to pay the bonuses too, but it's such an odd case I'd like to hear a definitive answer.
 
It reminds me a bit of when Darius Miles retired in the NBA and Portland got a medical exemption for the rest of his salary going forward, so it didn't count on their cap. Then Memphis signed him and once he played 10 games, all of that money went back on the Portland cap. 
 

glennhoffmania

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LahoudOrBillyC said:
No. If NY releases him they are still bound to all of the terms of the contract. A new team would sign him for the major league minimum. Yankees still owe the 61M plus the incentives (minus the minimum that new team pays).
I think another team would sign him for more than the minimum, and I don't think NY's obligation is affected at all by whatever new contract he signs.
 

wallypip

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A court battle could mean that A-Rod could be made to take the stand.  Since it would be a civil case and A-Rod would be the plaintiff, the fifth amendment wouldn't really apply.  Since the Yankees are arguing that A-Rod's marketing incentives are no longer valid because his HR totals aren't marketable, A-Rod might be forced to either perjure or incriminate himself when answering PED questions. It sounds to me like both parties might prefer to reach a settlement.  I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like the Yankees FO is laying the groundwork for a negotiation.
 

Rovin Romine

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wallypip said:
A court battle could mean that A-Rod could be made to take the stand.  Since it would be a civil case and A-Rod would be the plaintiff, the fifth amendment wouldn't really apply.  Since the Yankees are arguing that A-Rod's marketing incentives are no longer valid because his HR totals aren't marketable, A-Rod might be forced to either perjure or incriminate himself when answering PED questions. It sounds to me like both parties might prefer to reach a settlement.  I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like the Yankees FO is laying the groundwork for a negotiation.
Arod already has some form of immunity from the Feds/locals re the biogenesis situation. So we could get the full on circus.

Personally I'm now hoping for 7hrs followed by another positive but possibly tainted drug test - enough for arod to contest it. Don't know why I didn't think of that before.
 

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I have a hard time believing he needs help to hit six home runs this year.
 
And if he does, well, we'll get plenty of entertainment out of it.
 

jon abbey

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If he can't hit, he's not going to play. They're going to be really quick to bench him if at all possible. 
 

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If we're up 27-0 I have no issue with sticking one in his ear.

He can get his home runs elsewhere. Fuck that guy.
This; exactly this.  No soup for you Alex.
 

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wallypip said:
A court battle could mean that A-Rod could be made to take the stand.  Since it would be a civil case and A-Rod would be the plaintiff, the fifth amendment wouldn't really apply.  Since the Yankees are arguing that A-Rod's marketing incentives are no longer valid because his HR totals aren't marketable, A-Rod might be forced to either perjure or incriminate himself when answering PED questions. It sounds to me like both parties might prefer to reach a settlement.  I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like the Yankees FO is laying the groundwork for a negotiation.
A court battle would also mean everyone in the Yankee organization from H/H to Trost. Levine, Cashman Stick Torre to the batboys would be deposed about what they knew about PED use. E-mails and texs would be examined, documents revealed, conversations re-hashed. I'm not sure if $6MM is worth the possible embarrassment that the Y's knew exactly who they were signing and what they were doing in 2007 (or much earlier).
 

Congo

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Hagios said:
 
The NY Daily News ran this story, and buried this in the article:
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/alex-rodriguez-hitless-yankees-pitching-machine-article-1.2135121
 
"He was hardly the only player flummoxed by “Iron Mike,” as Mark Teixeira, Didi Gregorius, Brian McCann, Jacoby Ellsbury, Stephen Drew and Garrett Jones combined to go 0-for-10. Chris Young had a single in the scrimmage, though he was also the lone hitter to strike out against the machine."
 
Note that none of those players' failures were mentioned prominently in the headline.  Just ARod.
 

jon abbey

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Chris Young had a .876 OPS for NY after coming over last year, admittedly in only 79 PAs, but still. 
 

Sampo Gida

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jon abbey said:
Chris Young had a .876 OPS for NY after coming over last year, admittedly in only 79 PAs, but still. 
 
Yeah, he had a great 3-4 days.   Had a 638 OPS his final 54 PA
 

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ARod actually looked pretty good yesterday. He turned on a pitch for a single (albeit it was off of Kevin Slowey) and in his second at bat (might have been his third) he worked a walk with two guys on rather than trying to swing from his heels.
 
I don't know I am cautiously optimistic.
 

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Wingack said:
ARod actually looked pretty good yesterday. He turned on a pitch for a single (albeit it was off of Kevin Slowey) and in his second at bat (might have been his third) he worked a walk with two guys on rather than trying to swing from his heels.
 
I don't know I am cautiously optimistic.
We are talking about someone who may have been one of the all time great players even without any steroids. A lot of those types of players have had good to great seasons at age 39. If I were a small market team in need of a DH, I'd be willing to pick up $16 million of the remaining contract (essentially 2X$8--basically Kendrys Morales money) and roll the dice on getting at least a 335/440 line. I don't know if that would be enough for the Yankees to eat the contract, but they seem like they'd be happy to save a little and be rid of him due more to the baggage than the remaining talent.
 

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He has three years left to go. 
 
Plus it's a pretty big assumption to say he was an all time great even without any steroids.  I'd be pretty surprised if he was ever clean so there's no way to know how good he would've been without PEDs.
 

jon abbey

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I'll be stunned if he can be a league average DH, but more importantly, can we all please remember that Barry Bonds put up a 1.045 OPS in his last season in SF and then couldn't get a job anywhere because no one wanted to deal with the whole circus he brought along with him? No one is trading for A-Rod, I will be deeply surprised if he ever plays for another MLB team besides NY under any circumstances. This is it for him. 
 

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glennhoffmania said:
He has three years left to go. 
 
Yeah, I would want NY to basically eat the whole last year of the contract, maybe structure it by saying I'd pay the same $8 million of year 3 if I don't release him before then.

glennhoffmania said:
Plus it's a pretty big assumption to say he was an all time great even without any steroids. I'd be pretty surprised if he was ever clean so there's no way to know how good he would've been without PEDs.
Certainly a risk. Though I have to think that he was clean when he played those 44 games at the end of 2013, and by OPS+ he was as good a hitter in those 180 plate appearances as Sandoval was that year (113 to 116).

The overall decline in offense in MLB that everyone keeps pointing out to me when I criticize Red Sox veterans applies to ARod too. The average DH last season was .249 / .320 / .424, the average 3B in the AL was .250 / .310 / .392
 

jon abbey

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A-Rod with his first start at 3B today. His first AB was a ground-rule double off Fister, which was actually a pop up down the RF line that no one could catch and then bounced into the stands. 
 

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glennhoffmania said:
 
Plus it's a pretty big assumption to say he was an all time great even without any steroids.  I'd be pretty surprised if he was ever clean so there's no way to know how good he would've been without PEDs.
 
Maybe I am naive, but I have a hard time believing he was juicing in high school when he was already a phenom. My guess is that he started with the Rangers due to the influence of teammates like Palmeiro, Juan Gonzalez, etc.
 

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moly99 said:
 
Maybe I am naive, but I have a hard time believing he was juicing in high school when he was already a phenom. My guess is that he started with the Rangers due to the influence of teammates like Palmeiro, Juan Gonzalez, etc.
 
That's his story, but due to pressure he felt after signing the big contract.
 
The fact that he said it makes me think it's a bold-faced lie.
 

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HriniakPosterChild said:
 
That's his story, but due to pressure he felt after signing the big contract.
 
The fact that he said it makes me think it's a bold-faced lie.
 
Yep.   In 2009, in response to his name being on list, he claimed to have used PEDs only in TX - his age 25-27 seasons, 2001-03.  Except it wasn't really his fault because everyone did it and he didn't even know what he was doing in the first place, and would never ever do anything like it again. 
 
In 2014, post-suspension, post-investigation, he admitted to the DEA that he did PEDs from 2010 to 2012.  (He has not admitted this "publicly," and is still soldiering on.) 
 
So yeah, no cred.
 

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Rovin Romine said:
 
Yep.   In 2009, in response to his name being on list, he claimed to have used PEDs only in TX - his age 25-27 seasons, 2001-03.  Except it wasn't really his fault because everyone did it and he didn't even know what he was doing in the first place, and would never ever do anything like it again. 
 
In 2014, post-suspension, post-investigation, he admitted to the DEA that he did PEDs from 2010 to 2012.  (He has not admitted this "publicly," and is still soldiering on.) 
 
So yeah, no cred.
 
Also, even as a high school phenom, he was hanging around the University of Miami baseball program, which has since developed a quite unsavory reputation for PED use. 
 

glennhoffmania

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Yeah even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was clean while in Seattle, that means he could've been using for about 14 years.  I think that's a reasonable best case scenario for him.
 

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Rovin Romine said:
 
In 2014, post-suspension, post-investigation, he admitted to the DEA that he did PEDs from 2010 to 2012.  (He has not admitted this "publicly," and is still soldiering on.) 
 
So yeah, no cred.
For ARod, and for MLB's testing regime, no?
 

Rovin Romine

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Plympton91 said:
For ARod, and for MLB's testing regime, no?
 
I'd agree.  Aren't there a bunch of quotes floating around out there about how MLB has this sort of super-stringent amazingly comprehensive PED testing regime in place?  They sorta kinda caught Braun, but the whole ARod/Biogenesis thing was broken by a local Miami paper that got the clinic's records, not by MLB.
 

soxfan121

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Plympton91 said:
We are talking about someone who may have been one of the all time great players even without any steroids. 
 
Right. Without steroids, Arod was going to be a major leaguer. There are approximately 11 million examples of guys without the talent to be big league players taking steroids and still being bad at baseball. There are fewer examples of people being marginally good at baseball becoming better - but not all-time great - with the aid of steroids. Arod started on third base with athletic/baseball talent and then added on with the PEDs. 
 
I hope he hits 45 homers and the Yankees finish last. I hope he hits another 45 next season and again, the team finishes last. I hope the bonus payment thing becomes the messiest tabloid circus ever, I hope the stress of it has Hal Steinbrenner throw his hands up in frustration, say fuck it, and sell the team to Dolan (the Knicks owner). Then, I hope Derek Jeter takes the front office reins and becomes the new Isiah Thomas, being so thoroughly awful that his post-career terriblness erases all memory of how good he was as a player...and then I hope Arod gets elected to the HOF because he damn sure was one of the best players I ever saw, juice or no juice.