All-Time Greatest Franchise Teams

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

Spinning off from Ivanvamp's posts in the other thread, the team he put together would be a pretty good team in an All-Time Franchise Tournament:
 
 
 

Now, top 12 players, with roster considerations in mind:
 
Starters
PG - Cousy
SG - S. Jones
SF - Bird
PF - McHale
C - Russell
 
Reserves
G - Sharman, Archibald
F - Heinsohn, Havlicek, Pierce
C - Cowens, Parish
 
Close but no cigar:  KC Jones, Dennis Johnson, Kevin Garnett, Frank Ramsey, Reggie Lewis
 

 
Which franchise could roll out the best all time team?  Of the top of my head, despite my Celtics homerism,  I'd say it would be the Lakers:
 
G:  Magic, Kobe, West, Scott
F:  Worthy, Cooper, Elgin Baylor, Jamaal Wilkes (or A.C. Green)
C:  Kareem, Shaq, Wilt (yikes)
 
Only "rule" I would suggest is that if you put a guy on a team, you get the level of production he had with that team.  So if you are putting together a team for Miami, you get Miami Shaq, not Orlando or LA Shaq. 
 
So who else is in the mix for the top team?  Houston, with a Yao/Akeem/Young Moses Malone frontcourt?  Philly?  Do LeBron and Wade with a mix and match frontcourt get Miami into the mix?
 
Have at it.  

 

[ivanvamp]

Philadelphia 76ers (not Warriors) - from (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/features/nbaLineup?page=lineup/phi):
 
G - Cheeks, Toney, Iverson, Greer
F - Erving, Barkley, Cunningham, B. Jones
C - Chamberlain, Schayes
 
I'd add Moses Malone and Andre Iguodala.  
 
C's roster is better, but this would be a very tough team.  Wilt and Moses inside, with Barkley at the three?  Holy crap.  The rebounding would be off the charts.  

 

[ivanvamp]

Spinning off from Ivanvamp's posts in the other thread, the team he put together would be a pretty good team in an All-Time Franchise Tournament:
 
 
 
 
Which franchise could roll out the best all time team?  Of the top of my head, despite my Celtics homerism,  I'd say it would be the Lakers:
 
G:  Magic, Kobe, West, Scott
F:  Worthy, Cooper, Elgin Baylor, Jamaal Wilkes (or A.C. Green)
C:  Kareem, Shaq, Wilt (yikes)
 
Only "rule" I would suggest is that if you put a guy on a team, you get the level of production he had with that team.  So if you are putting together a team for Miami, you get Miami Shaq, not Orlando or LA Shaq. 
 
So who else is in the mix for the top team?  Houston, with a Yao/Akeem/Young Moses Malone frontcourt?  Philly?  Do LeBron and Wade with a mix and match frontcourt get Miami into the mix?
 
Have at it.  

 
The top three in the Lakers backcourt are just insane.  Three of the top 15 all-time players ever to lace up the sneakers.  Some might argue three of the top 10.  I mean, holy smokes.  And pair them with those three centers???  
 
Yes, this roster is better than Boston's.  Hate to say it, but it's true.

 

[Devizier]

Hard to imagine anyone beating the Celtics or Lakers in this contest. But there are some interesting teams in the mix:
 
Sixers could field the prime years of Wilt, Barkley, and Erving. Hard to imagine a better frontcourt than that. Their frontcourt backups (Malone, Schayes, Cunningham) would probably be better than some all-teams' starting forwards. Their backcourt of Greer, Iverson, Cheeks would probably get crushed, though.
 
Spurs have Duncan and Robinson, with Parker, Ginobili, and Gervin filling out the rest of the starters. That's a pretty small team, but the twin towers could compensate for a lot.
 
How about the Magic? Could Howard play the 4 next to Shaq? (doubtful).
 
The Heat with Wade, James, 'Zo and Bosh would be pretty sick. Timmy Hardaway mans the point and you have Eddie Jones as your backup/defensive wing stopper.

 

[Devizier]

Is Kirk Hinrich the best point guard in Bulls history?

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Philly has to be up there too -
 
C- Wilt, Moses Malone, Dolph Schayes
F - Dr. J, Barkley, Cunningham, Bobby Jones, George McGinnis,
G - Iverson, Cheeks, Hal Greer, Andrew Toney

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

FWIW, I think in any exercise like this, length is key, and for that reason (plus the fact that he was still playing D at a pretty high level on the Celts) I'd move Garnett onto the Celtics roster.  
 
Russell, McHale, Garnett (with Parish in the rotation) might be the toughest frontcourt to score against, and they would give up very little in the way of offensive rebounds.  

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Is Kirk Hinrich the best point guard in Bulls history?

 
Norm van Lier
 
Ooops - D. Rose?

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Spinning off from Ivanvamp's posts in the other thread, the team he put together would be a pretty good team in an All-Time Franchise Tournament:
 
 
So who else is in the mix for the top team?  Houston, with a Yao/Akeem/Young Moses Malone frontcourt?  Philly?  Do LeBron and Wade with a mix and match frontcourt get Miami into the mix?
 
Have at it.  

 
They also would have Sampson up there.  Plus Elvin Hayes and Calvin Murphy.  And they had some good years from all-time greats in the dawn of their careers- Barkley, Drexler, Rick Barry.  Even Scottie Pippen had a decent year there. 

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Bulls would be OK - Artis Gilmore, Noah, Chet Walker, Rodman, Grant, Brand and Oakley up front. 
 
MJ, Pippen, Bob Love, Reggie Theus.
 
Rose, B.J. Armstrong, Van Lier, Jerry Slaon, Kerr.

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Miami also would have Mourning, Hardaway, Glen Rice.  Seikaly, Sherm Douglas, Lamar Odom. 

 

[Greg29fan]

The Hawks would have a high scoring team

PG-Pistol Pete
SG-Lou Hudson
SF-Dominique Wilkins
PF-Bob Pettit
C-Dikembe Mutombo

Backups would include Doc Rivers, Moses Malone, Al Horford, Josh Smith, Jamal Crawford, Kevin Willis, and Tree Rollins. Maybe throw in Mookie Blaylock, who was on the All Defensive team several times. Slater Martin was also an outstanding defender in the 50s and 60s.

 

[Granite Sox]

Wilt was not a True Laker[SIZE=11pt]™[/SIZE]
 
*sniff*
 
Celts are still deeper.
 
Those Philly and Houston editions are pretty robust as well.
 
Jordan, Pippen, Butter Bean, Van Lier, Oakley, Ho Grant, Worm, (pre-Rigor) Artis Gilmore, Jerry Sloan... The Bulls might not win, but they would beat you up.
 
Edit: beaten by PW!

 

[Brickowski]

How about the Bulls? MJ, Pippin, Noah, Rose (when healthy), Chandler, Walker, Sloan, Van Lier, Metta, Gilmore, Kukoc, Rodman.

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Knicks?  Ewing, Willis Reed, Cartwright.  Bernard King, Melo, Oakley, Debusschere, Frazier, Monroe, Houston,
 
Richie Guerin, Michael ray Richardsom, Mark Jackson. 

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

I think Portland could surprise some teams
 
C:  Walton, Sabonis, Mychal Thompson
F:  Aldridge, Cliff Robinson, Rasheed, Jerome Kersey, Maurice Lucas
G:  Clyde, Lillard, Terry Porter, Jim Paxon
 
Not a lot of "all timers", but probably one of the few teams that could match up with the others on size, and in terms of physicality they would be tough to match up with.  

 

[Kliq]

Milwaukee Bucks:
PG: Oscar
SG: Moncreif
SF: John McGlocklin
PF: Jack Sikma
C: Kareem
 
Bench: Michael Reed, Ray Allen, Gary Payton, Armon Gilliam, Andrew Bogut, Bobby Dandridge, Paul Pressey

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

Milwaukee Bucks:
PG: Oscar
SG: Moncreif
SF: John McGlocklin
PF: Jack Sikma
C: Kareem
 
Bench: Michael Reed, Ray Allen, Gary Payton, Armon Gilliam, Andrew Bogut, Bobby Dandridge, Paul Pressey

 
Bucks would be pretty good, but I would throw in Terry Cummings or Marques Johnson as the SF.  

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Milwaukee Bucks:
PG: Oscar
SG: Moncreif
SF: John McGlocklin
PF: Jack Sikma
C: Kareem
 
Bench: Michael Reed, Ray Allen, Gary Payton, Armon Gilliam, Andrew Bogut, Bobby Dandridge, Paul Pressey

 
 
How about Marques Johnson or Glen Robinson over McGlocklin? 

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Denver?
 
Mutumbo, Issel at C
 
Alex English and Melo at F, with Kiki Vandeweghe, McGinnis and Bobby Jones 
 
David Thompson, Fat Lever, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Van Exel  at G

 

[Devizier]

 
Norm van Lier
 
Ooops - D. Rose?

 
Sure in peak production, but it's hard to put a guy on an all-time team when he's had only 3 healthy seasons.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

How does the NBA view Seattle/OKC?  Is it still the same franchise, or did they do like Cleveland in the NFL, where the city kept the name, the records, etc?
 
If it is one franchise, that might be the most athletic group you could put together:
 
Starting 5 of Gary Payton, Westbrook, Durant, Sean Kemp and Jack Sikma (I guess).
 
Bench guys like Gus Williams, Ibaka, Michael Cage, Detlef Schrempf, DJ.  
 
They might be one center away from a top 2-3 team.  
 
A Payton/Westbrook/Young DJ/Gus Williams backcourt might have the best chance of anyone of keeping up with the Lakers backcourt.  

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Knicks?  Ewing, Willis Reed, Cartwright.  Bernard King, Melo, Oakley, Debusschere, Frazier, Monroe, Houston,
 
Richie Guerin, Michael ray Richardsom, Mark Jackson. 

 
 
For a long time team, in the biggest market, with boatloads of money, this roster is kind of "meh".

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Seattle Sonics
 
PG: Payton
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Durant
PF: Kemp
C:  Sikma
 
G DJ, G Westbrook, G L Wilkens. F Spencer Haywood, F Rashard Lewis F Detlef C Burleson
 
 
End of game needing 3 : Westbrook, Allen, Lewis, Detlef, Durant
 
End of game ball control: DJ, Payton, Wilkens, Westbrook, Durant
 
End of game defense: DJ, Payton, Detlef, Kemp, Sikma
 
HM: Dale Ellis, Sam Perkins, Nate McMillan, Serge Ibaka

 

[The Social Chair]

Cleveland would be a tough out. They don't have the most talent but there would be less of an alpha battle than on other teams.  Larry Nance and Brad Daughtery in the middle (Z off the bench). Run the offense through Lebron and have Mark Price and World. B Free play off the ball.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

How does the NBA view Seattle/OKC?  Is it still the same franchise, or did they do like Cleveland in the NFL, where the city kept the name, the records, etc?
 
If it is one franchise, that might be the most athletic group you could put together:
 
Starting 5 of Gary Payton, Westbrook, Durant, Sean Kemp and Jack Sikma (I guess).
 
Bench guys like Gus Williams, Ibaka, Michael Cage, Detlef Schrempf, DJ.  
 
They might be one center away from a top 2-3 team.  
 
A Payton/Westbrook/Young DJ/Gus Williams backcourt might have the best chance of anyone of keeping up with the Lakers backcourt.  

nice timing . . . 

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

nice timing . . . 

 
 
Heh.  Beat you by a minute, but I completely forgot about Ray Allen and Lenny Wilkens, both solid contenders for that team.  The more I look at it, the more I think that with one more high quality big man, they would be right there with Celts/Lakers/Philly.  Other than LA, I think their backcourt would run wild over just about every other team.
 
Edit:  Or the Bulls.  MJ alone makes the Bulls a top 3 backcourt. 

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

(whoops, missed post, nice team Wasdin)
 
Portland Blazers
 
PG: Terry Porter
SG: Clyde the Glide
SF: Rasheed Wallace
PF: Mo Lucas
C:  Bill Walton
 
2nd unit
C: Sabonis
G Strickland
G Lillard
F Cliff from Survivor
F Jerome Kersey demoted to 3rd string
 
 
Bench
G/F Brandon Roy
F/C Buck Williams Aldridge to 6th man
 
edit #2 aldridge instead of Buck.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Houston Rockets
 
PG Steve Francis
SG James Harden
SF Tracy mcGrady
PF Hakeem Olajuwon
C Moses
 
C Ming
PF/C Howard
C Sampson
G Kenny Smith
G Old Clyde
F Rudy T
F Old Chuck
 
Penis/FT coach: Calvin Murphy
 
This team will scare you

 

[TheDeuce222]

Surprised no one has brought up Detroit yet.  They would have a tough team.  Not on the level of Celtics/Lakers, but up there.  
 
PG Isiah Thomas
SG/Mayor Dave Bing
SF Grant Hill (people forget how good he was prior to the injuries)
PF Bill Laimbeer
C Bob Lanier
 
Bench
 
PG Chauncey Billups
SG Joe Dumars
SG/SF Richard Hamilton
SF Kelly Tripucka
SF/PF Bailey Howell
PF Dennis Rodman
C Ben Wallace
 
With Chuck as the Coach

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

Houston Rockets
 
PG Steve Francis
SG James Harden
SF Tracy mcGrady
PF Hakeem Olajuwon
C Moses
 
C Ming
PF/C Howard
C Sampson
G Kenny Smith
G Old Clyde
F Rudy T
F Old Chuck
 
Penis/FT coach: Calvin Murphy
 
This team will scare you

 
Agreed, although I would probably swap Rudy T. for young Elvin Hayes  and Sampson for young Moses Malone.  As much frontcourt depth as any team, including LA and Boston.  

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Phoenix Suns -
 
C- Alvan Adams, Tom Chambers, Gar Heard
 
F - Barkley, Shawn Marion, Connie hawkins, Larry Nance, Majerle, Mo Lucas.
 
G - Nash, Kevin Johnson, Kidd, Walter davis, Westphal

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Cleveland Ca
 

How about the Bulls? MJ, Pippin, Noah, Rose (when healthy), Chandler, Walker, Sloan, Van Lier, Metta, Gilmore, Kukoc, Rodman.

 
PG: Rose
SG: Jordan
SF: Pippen
PF: Rodman
C  Gilmore
 
2nd unit:
PG Van Lier
SG:  Jerry Sloan
SF: Bob Love
PF:  Toni Kukoc slight nod over Horace Grant
C Joakim Noah
 
F Chet Walker
G Reggie Theus
 
Probably the best perimiter defensive team by far

 

[mandro ramtinez]

Houston Rockets
 
PG Steve Francis
SG James Harden
SF Tracy mcGrady
PF Hakeem Olajuwon
C Moses
 
C Ming
PF/C Howard
C Sampson
G Kenny Smith
G Old Clyde
F Rudy T
F Old Chuck
 
Penis/FT coach: Calvin Murphy
 
This team will scare you

Kenny Smith did not put up numbers like Stevie Franchise did but I think I would take Smith over SF for his role on the two title teams.  

 

[twothousandone]

I believe George Mikan was athletic enough to switch to power forward, replacing Green or Wilkes. (Unless he's playing with Love and Garnett for Minnesota)

 

[Kliq]

Kings/Royals
 
PG: Oscar
SG: Jack Twyman
SF: Peja
PF: Chris Webber
C: Wayne Embry
 
Bench: Tiny, Vlade Divac, Jerry Lucas, Maurice Stokes, Mitch Richmond
 
They might not be that great defensively, but they could score, rebound and pass as good as anybody.
 

 

[Kliq]

Seattle Sonics
 
PG: Payton
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Durant
PF: Kemp
C:  Sikma
 
G DJ, G Westbrook, G L Wilkens. F Spencer Haywood, F Rashard Lewis F Detlef C Burleson
 
 
End of game needing 3 : Westbrook, Allen, Lewis, Detlef, Durant
 
End of game ball control: DJ, Payton, Wilkens, Westbrook, Durant
 
End of game defense: DJ, Payton, Detlef, Kemp, Sikma
 
HM: Dale Ellis, Sam Perkins, Nate McMillan, Serge Ibaka

 
Not bad, but I would take Tom Chambers over most of the wing players.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Warriors
 
PG: Tim Hardaway
SG: Paul Arizin
SF: Rick Barry
PF: Nate Thurmond
C: Wilt
 
 
 
Bench:
PG: Al Attles (player/coach)
G: Stephen Curry
G: Latrell
SF: Tom Gola
SF: Chris Mullin
PF: Larry Smith over Antawn Jamison for rebounding
C:  Neil Johnston
 
toughest omission: Fulks

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Miami Heat (only? team with 3+ players on multiple teams, thanks to free agency):
 
PG: Tim Hardaway
SG: Dwyane Wade
SF: Lebron
PF/C: Alonzo Mourning
C Shaq
 
Bench
PG Sherman Douglas
G Ray Allen
G Steve Smith
F Antoine Walker
F Chris Bosh
F Glen Rice
C Rony Seikaly

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Jazz
 
PG: Stockton
SG: Pistol Pete
SF: Adrian Dantley
PF: Karl Malone
C:  Mark Eaton
 
Bench:
G Deron Williams
G Darrell Griffith
G Rickey Green
G Jeff Hornacek
F Andrei Kirilenko
F Thurl Bailey
C Carlos Boozer
 
(team needs more depth in the post)

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

At this point, if I had to rank them, I'd go:
 
First tier:
 
Lakers
Celtics
76ers
 
Lakers have IMO the best overall backcourt, matched with an almost as ridiculous frontcourt, and I think are probably the class of the league
 
Second Tier
 
Seattle/OKC-one banger away from top tier
Houston-one solid PG away from top tier
Chicago-hard to drop a Jordan/Pippen this low, but I think every team above them has a far better C/F mix.  
Portland-I may be putting them too low-a little weak at guart beyond Clyde, I guess
Miami-mostly on LeBron's back, with an assist to Wade, Shaq and 'Zo.
 
Third Tier
 
Cleveland
Milwaukee
Detroit
Denver
etc.
 
Last
Charlotte Hornets/Bobcats:  LJ, Alonzo, Glen Rice, and .... Gerald Wallace?

 

[Marbleheader]

Havlicek and Pierce both played plenty of SG and would get the nod over Jones. Jojo over Sharman. Garnett absolutely makes the team. I'd probably put Rondo over Tiny, as much as I enjoyed watching the latter, based purely on Celtics years.

 

[scottyno]

They don't have the depth of other teams due to history but the magic top guys would be a fun team to watch (or possibly really boring if teams employed a hack-a-big approach) if a coach could figure out how to correctly utilize Howard and Shaq.
 
Starting 5 would probably be
 
Hardaway
Anderson
Mcgrady
Lewis
Shaq
 
with Howard, Francis, Nelson, and a myriad of 3 point shooters off the bench

 

[Brickowski]

Havlicek and Pierce both played plenty of SG and would get the nod over Jones. Jojo over Sharman. Garnett absolutely makes the team. I'd probably put Rondo over Tiny, as much as I enjoyed watching the latter, based purely on Celtics years.

You guys can have JoJo, Sharman, Tiny and even PP, but Sam Jones would be on my team. He was the Ray Allen of his era, only quicker. http://prohoopshistory.com/2013/08/20/sam-jones-in-the-clutch/

 

[TroyOLeary]

I would take Garnett and Ray over Heinsohn and Sharman.  The former because I think he's better, the latter because the team as outlined in the OP only has Pierce and Bird as shooters who played with the 3-point line, which would be a huge disadvantage.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Last
Charlotte Hornets/Bobcats:  LJ, Alonzo, Glen Rice, and .... Gerald Wallace?

Hornets v. 1.0
 
PG: Baron Davis
SG: Eddie Jones
SF: Glen Rice
PF: Larry Johnson
C  : Mourning
 
Bench:
shooter: Curry the elder
muscle and intimidation:  Anthony Mason and PJ Brown
Kendall Gill

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Hornets wouldn't necessarily be last. They'd be competitive with the Canadian teams (Grizz/Raptors), Minny, maybe Dallas. Weakness at PG though. But pretty good defense with Jones and Zo.
 
PG: Baron Davis
SG: Eddie Jones
SF: Glen Rice
PF: Larry Johnson
C  : Mourning
 
Bench:
shooter: Curry the elder
muscle and intimidation:  Anthony Mason and PJ Brown
shot-blocker: Emeka Okafor
Kendall Gill
Kemba Walker
Al Jefferson

 
Most of this team is Hornets/Pelicans.
 
Al Jefferson is a Bobcat/Hornet.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

 
Most of this team is Hornets/Pelicans.
 
Al Jefferson is a Bobcat/Hornet.

Of course. This is what I was thinking at first and the wiki summary on the right side of the page fooled me into thinking my gut/brain was wrong. (Wiki has it by city not by franchise)
 
So yeah, take out Walker, Okafor, and Jefferson and add Paul and Davis I guess and make it the Pelicans.
 
F George Shinn.

 

[runnels3]

You guys can have JoJo, Sharman, Tiny and even PP, but Sam Jones would be on my team. He was the Ray Allen of his era, only quicker. http://prohoopshistory.com/2013/08/20/sam-jones-in-the-clutch/

Absolutely. I'm glad someone finally took the time to thoroughly research just how great Sam was, especially in the post season. Bill Russell said it best: "Sam Jones had the heart of a champion."

 

[Mugthis]

PG: Rose
SG: Jordan
SF: Pippin
PF: Rodman
C: Noah
 
The Bulls don't have much depth, but that has to be the best defensive starting lineup, right? The have the two best wing defenders, one of the best defenders/rebounders ever in Rodman, and very good Noah, and a super-athletic Rose, who--with Jordan on offense--would be able to focus particularly on defense.