Angels are opting out of stadium lease

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,278
The Angels opted out of their lease with the city of Anaheim on Tuesday, setting the stage for another round of negotiations over whether the team remains in their longtime host city or finds a new home elsewhere in Southern California.

Angel Stadium, which opened in 1966, is the fourth-oldest ballpark in the major leagues, behind Boston’s Fenway Park, Chicago’s Wrigley Field and Dodger Stadium.

“As we look to the future, we need the ability to continue to deliver a high-quality fan experience beyond what the original lease allows,” Angels president John Carpino said in a statement. “It is important that we look at all our options and how we can best serve our fans now and in the future.”

Anaheim Mayor Tom Tait, who led the drive against a tentative 2013 agreement between the city and the team for an Angel Stadium renovation, is in his final term. Voters in Anaheim will elect a new mayor and three new council members next month.

Angels spokeswoman Marie Garvey said the decision to opt out was not meant to influence voters. She said the lease required the team to opt out no later than Tuesday or wait until 2028 for another chance to do so.

“It’s today, or 10 years from now,” Garvey said. “There’s no option in between.”

Garvey would not say whether remaining in Anaheim was the Angels’ first choice
http://www.latimes.com/sports/mlb/la-sp-angels-anaheim-lease-20181016-story.html

More at the link.

Move the team to Montreal
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,492
I want an AL team in Socal, especially like the status quo situation, for purely selfish reasons. (Seeing Red Sox on the cheap if living or vacationing in the area)
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Montreal? So they can realign again? Move Tampa to Montreal and move Angels to Portland, San Antonio or Vegas. Failing that tie in with Spanos and just go straight LA.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,492
Montreal? So they can realign again? Move Tampa to Montreal and move Angels to Portland, San Antonio or Vegas. Failing that tie in with Spanos and just go straight LA.
LA people will always be Dodgers people.

They just need to hire Janet Marie Smith, like JWH/TW/Lucky did, and beautify the ballpark like with Fenway.

I am not sure Portland and San Antonio are wealthy enough to support an MLB team.

I would also hate it to go to Vegas. Although I don't think the climate would prevent this move.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Move Tampa to Orlando. Move the Marlins to Montreal.
So that Miami citizens can eat a $2B pill on the ballpark they got screwed on? Miami isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

I’m not sure how you’re claiming Portland and San Antonio’s aren’t wealthy enough when the average household income is higher in both than it is in Orlando. Nor how this sidebar solves the issue of the Angels.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,492
So that Miami citizens can eat a $2B pill on the ballpark they got screwed on? Miami isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

I’m not sure how you’re claiming Portland and San Antonio’s aren’t wealthy enough when the average household income is higher in both than it is in Orlando. Nor how this sidebar solves the issue of the Angels.
tourists
 

LoweTek

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 30, 2005
2,183
Central Florida
So that Miami citizens can eat a $2B pill on the ballpark they got screwed on? Miami isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

I’m not sure how you’re claiming Portland and San Antonio’s aren’t wealthy enough when the average household income is higher in both than it is in Orlando. Nor how this sidebar solves the issue of the Angels.
Agree on the Marlins but moving Tampa to Orlando puts the team less than 90 minutes from Tampa. Melbourne, Daytona and two hours from Jacksonville. A much more Central location accessible to many more people than the edge of St. Pete, a traffic nightmare no matter how you cut it.

I know, I know, off topic from the Angels of Anaheim, LA and California. Carry on.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Agree on the Marlins but moving Tampa to Orlando puts the team less than 90 minutes from Tampa. Melbourne, Daytona and two hours from Jacksonville. A much more Central location accessible to many more people than the edge of St. Pete, a traffic nightmare no matter how you cut it.

I know, I know, off topic from the Angels of Anaheim, LA and California. Carry on.
Unless mods disagree, I don’t see why it can’t be an overall discussion, I was just responding to a direct quote.

Is a 90-120 minute commutes really reliable for relocation? I know traffic is an issue for the current location, I’m just not seeing how relying on a central location helps that. Is someone really driving from Jax to see the Rays?
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,492
Like they have in Vegas?
Vegas has tourists yes. More than Portland and San Antonio, yes. It won't be locals supporting the Raiders.

Orlando of course has families visiting, not the Chicken Ranch and The Cosmopolitan crowd, so you sell 5 tickets at once, something an 81 date team needs.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
You think families don’t go to Vegas? The casinos disagree; and they will buy half the boxes for comps.

Regardless, Orlando wouldn’t be any better than Tampa. And you have pretty serious realignment issues trying to move a team across the country.
 

Monbo Jumbo

Hates the crockpot
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 5, 2003
25,231
the other Athens
“As we look to the future, we need the ability to continue to deliver a high-quality fan experience beyond what the original lease allows,” Angels president John Carpino said in a statement. “It is important that we look at all our options and how we can best serve our fans now and in the future.”
I've heard that before. Allow me to break down what it means.

The team feels that they are bringing thousands of paying customers to the location. They want to be able to earn money from the real estate surrounding that stadium. The business is much more profitable if they can control the restaurant, hotel, and other tie ins in the neighborhood.

That is what the Braves did with their "Battery" development in the 'burbs. The Braves don't have just a stadium. They have a hotel/restaurant/office/stadium neighborhood earning $$. My take is the Angels want control of the satellite real estate for any stadium they occupy. That's the Braves model.

(Note the Red Sox recent plans for a nearby theater fit this model also.)
 

thehitcat

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 25, 2003
2,376
Windham, ME
I've heard that before. Allow me to break down what it means.

The team feels that they are bringing thousands of paying customers to the location. They want to be able to earn money from the real estate surrounding that stadium. The business is much more profitable if they can control the restaurant, hotel, and other tie ins in the neighborhood.

That is what the Braves did with their "Battery" development in the 'burbs. The Braves don't have just a stadium. They have a hotel/restaurant/office/stadium neighborhood earning $$. My take is the Angels want control of the satellite real estate for any stadium they occupy. That's the Braves model.

(Note the Red Sox recent plans for a nearby theater fit this model also.)
And Patriot Place if I'm very much not mistaken.
 

barbed wire Bob

crippled by fear
SoSH Member
The Angels were ranked sixth in attendance in 2018 with over 3 million visitors so I tend to agree with Monbo; This is a ploy by Artie Moreno to get a more favorable lease and control development around the park.

FWIW, in 2017 Moreno did say the they were committed to Angel stadium at least in the near term. However, in the past, they have looked at building a new stadium in other towns/places in O.C. like Tuston, the former El Toro airbase, etc.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance

https://ballparkdigest.com/2017/02/19/moreno-were-committed-to-angel-stadium/
 

patinorange

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 27, 2006
30,664
6 miles from Angel Stadium
It’s a money/ real estate development ploy, pure and simple. Lots of choice land that Anaheim owns adjacent to the stadium and Moreno wants it. He’s going to leverage the Angels leaving against the money. And he’ll probably get most of what he wants. Monbo is right on the mark.
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
SoSH Member
Just to back up that the Angels aren’t going anywhere, they’ve drawn 3 million in every season since 2003 and have drawn in the top 10 in AL attendance every year of their history, with one exception. They led the AL in attendance four times in the 80s. Their TV ratings are low but their audience size is top 10 in baseball. The OC loves their Angels.
 

TheYaz67

Member
SoSH Member
May 21, 2004
4,712
Justia Omnibus
If only poor Mike Trout could opt out of his contract....

It is borderline criminal that an elite player with an 8 MLB year career and 64+ WAR has a grand total of 15 postseason plate appearances.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,101
4th oldest ballpark? WTF, how did that happen
What's crazy (if you are in your 40s anyway) is that I think SkyDome is the 7th oldest:

Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, Angels, A's, Royals,

And then Camden is 10th, after the ones listed above and White Sox & Rays.
 
Last edited:

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,065
Hingham, MA
What's crazy (if you are in your 40s anyway) is that I think SkyDome is like the 7th oldest:

Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, Angels, A's, Royals,

And then Camden is like 10th, after the ones listed above and White Sox & Rays.
Camden being 10th oldest is definitely crazy. That one sticks out as the first in the wave of new parks.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,101
Camden being 10th oldest is definitely crazy. That one sticks out as the first in the wave of new parks.

And it's not that far form being 7th -- Jays/WS/Rays only pre-date it by a few years.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
The team feels that they are bringing thousands of paying customers to the location. They want to be able to earn money from the real estate surrounding that stadium. The business is much more profitable if they can control the restaurant, hotel, and other tie ins in the neighborhood.
Just to back up that the Angels aren’t going anywhere, they’ve drawn 3 million in every season since 2003 and have drawn in the top 10 in AL attendance every year of their history, with one exception. They led the AL in attendance four times in the 80s. Their TV ratings are low but their audience size is top 10 in baseball. The OC loves their Angels.
These guys have bingo. The Angels are going to start a bidding war among municipalities in Orange County — give us land, we’ll build the stadium and develop the surrounding area, and we’ll kick a piece of the profits to the municipality (which importantly gives the politicians a vested interest in the success of the enterprise).


They went through a very major renovation in 1998, so while it's technically the fourth oldest, it's functionally a 20-year-old stadium.
One of the lessons here is that doing a massive renovation on an old stadium seldom makes sense. Time will tell whether the new-look Kaufman Stadium bucks the trend — I’ve heard good things. But the renovations in Anaheim and Oakland were mistakes, and even the Yankees would’ve been better off if they’d limped through with the old Yankee Stadium for another decade or two, then built the new one much sooner.
 

Monbo Jumbo

Hates the crockpot
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 5, 2003
25,231
the other Athens
The interesting point to note here is that a parking lot is no longer considered the optimum use for real estate adjacent to a stadium.

In the Braves example, they are willing to forgo parking revenue to 3rd parties further away in order to reap restaurant/hotel/office space $$. The Braves built just enough parking for premium season ticket holders while average fans are parking in places like The Weather Channel's lot (for $20) a 15 minute walk on the other side of the interstate.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

holden
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2003
12,723
MetroWest, MA
One of the lessons here is that doing a massive renovation on an old stadium seldom makes sense. Time will tell whether the new-look Kaufman Stadium bucks the trend — I’ve heard good things. But the renovations in Anaheim and Oakland were mistakes, and even the Yankees would’ve been better off if they’d limped through with the old Yankee Stadium for another decade or two, then built the new one much sooner.
The Anaheim and Oakland renovations were done for opposite reasons. In Anaheim's case, the Rams had left town, so there was justifiable reason to retrofit the stadium back into a baseball-only facility, and toward that end it was a smashing success. In Oakland's case, building Mt. Davis was the condition of getting the Raiders to move back to town, thereby making what was already an undesirable location for baseball even more so.

I don't think renovating Anaheim stadium was a mistake at all, it's a perfectly fine facility. The Angels are opting out of the lease out of greed and because they can.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

holden
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2003
12,723
MetroWest, MA
Angels and Anaheim agree to extend the lease to 2020, providing more time for land use planning of the surrounding area. Either way, the Angels are staying, whether it's in a renovated Big A or and entirely new stadium built on adjoining land.

With that much acreage and existing foot traffic, it’s no surprise that development is eyed for the area. There’s been some development in recent years, adding some 5,000 housing units and retail/restaurants to the area, but Anaheim officials have been reluctant to pull the trigger on any larger-scale plans. Most notably: Anaheim rejected an offer from the Angels to redevelop part of the property as part of an Angel Stadium renovation, under the fear that owner Arte Moreno would be underpaying for the land.

But with a new mayor, the focus is back on Angel Stadium site redevelopment. The Angels are already committed to develop their own plan for the 231 acres surrounding the ballpark, and the city is expected to launch its own planning. It’s highly likely both sides will come to roughly the same conclusions: a large sports and entertainment that would also attract housing and office space. It’s a model that works: The Battery has been a success in making a solid economic impact in Cobb County as part of the SunTrust Park development, and L.A. Live is a solid draw in downtown Los Angeles, fueled by events at the Staples Center. Using sporting facilities as kindling for associated development is a hot economic trend, and the idea would be to do the same at Angel Stadium.
One big issue that must be solved: Do you renovate Angel Stadium or build a new one? Building a new ballpark next to the old one is a common strategy, used successfully in New York City and Cincinnati to maintain continuity and capitalize on existing infrastructure investments. Angel Stadium opened in 1966and is currently the fourth-oldest MLB ballpark after Fenway Park (1912), Wrigley Field (1914) and Dodger Stadium (1962). Angel Stadium was last renovated in 1998, when then-Angels owner Disney Corp. hired Populous and cutting-edge architect Robert A.M. Stern to remodel the aging facility. The ballpark had been altered since its 1966 opening to accommodate the NFL’s Los Angeles Rams, but the 1998 changes opened the center-field area and returned the facility’s focus to baseball. It’s still a dated facility, with crowded concourses, cramped seating and limited amenities. There’s no doubt a new, modern facility will be under discussion as talks begin.