Barnes suspended 4 games for throwing at Machado

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Gordon Edes @GordonEdes
Matt Barnes has been suspended four games, has elected to appeal

Seems about right. Two for throwing at him intentionally, two more for going at the head (intentionally or not). Probably gets appealed down to two games in the end.

If he did it on his own, he's a moron. If he threw at Machado on orders, Farrell is a moron. Not just for doing it at all, but doing it with his top set-up man in a bullpen that has its issues. Things are no more settled and solid now than they were the last time Barnes was out a couple games. Just a whole lot of stupid all the way around.
 

BaseballJones

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Listening to Dale and Holley today on WEEI, it appears that the fastball that Barnes threw behind Machado's head was 90 mph, about 7-8 mph slower than he usually throws. They hypothesized that he was going to drill (or buzz) Machado as it is normally done, but then got a little skittish and tried to "aim" it. Hence the big drop-off in velocity, and the loss of control, which usually comes with aiming it. So they were suggesting that he wasn't trying to go for Machado's head, but his body, and the whole thing just got screwed up royally.

Take that for what it's worth. I think it's actually a sane argument.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Listening to Dale and Holley today on WEEI, it appears that the fastball that Barnes threw behind Machado's head was 90 mph, about 7-8 mph slower than he usually throws. They hypothesized that he was going to drill (or buzz) Machado as it is normally done, but then got a little skittish and tried to "aim" it. Hence the big drop-off in velocity, and the loss of control, which usually comes with aiming it. So they were suggesting that he wasn't trying to go for Machado's head, but his body, and the whole thing just got screwed up royally.

Take that for what it's worth. I think it's actually a sane argument.
Oh, I can totally believe that Barnes was not aiming for his head. The guy has had his issues with control, so even if there wasn't an issue of "aiming" that caused the throw to go awry, I'd believe he was throwing for his hip and he missed his spot...badly.

To me, that it was near his head was irrelevant. Throwing at Machado at all was what I'm calling incredibly stupid.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Farrell was pretty upset about the slide on Friday night. I don't see how it wasn't ordered from him.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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I don't agree with throwing at Machado in the first place, but I get the argument for it. My biggest problem was that he threw it anywhere near where it could have gotten up by his head. If Barnes is gonna try to hit him, it has to be thrown at the belt or lower. I don't buy that he could have been aiming for the hip and missed behind his head, though. He's not Rick Ankiel.

Farrell was pretty upset about the slide on Friday night. I don't see how it wasn't ordered from him.
It's entirely possible for Farrell to have been hot in the moment and to have woken up the next morning and not wanted to go head hunting.
 

johnmd20

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Man, not a fan of head hunting. If you're going to go at a guy, drill him in the lower back or ass. Behind the head is ridiculously dangerous, 90mph or not.
 

E5 Yaz

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I don't buy that he could have been aiming for the hip and missed behind his head, though. He's not Rick Ankiel.
Some guys get all out of whack when they are "supposed" to hit someone. Who was the guy on the Mets who was trying to hit Clemens after the bat-shard incident with Piazza? Some guys just can't do it.

Pedroia was correct in what he apparently told Machado ... if it was going to be done at all -- and I'm of the opinion that it's a foolish thing to do -- it should have been the day before with a shot to the thigh.
 

DJnVa

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Farrell was pretty upset about the slide on Friday night. I don't see how it wasn't ordered from him.
Because one can be upset about what he perceives as a dirty play but not think retaliation was needed.
 

AimingForYoko

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Sounds about right. This was just dumb. And if Barnes doesn't have the control to hit Machado on the hip, then don't throw at him at all.
 

mauidano

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Two games is reasonable. One; he did not hit him. Maybe the intent was there but how you suspend for four games on that? It was on his own accord. Whatever, he's a middle reliever guy. Two games isn't the end of the world and let's move on already. This is tired.
 

reggiecleveland

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All I can say is we are lucky the Yankees never figured out brushing back Ortiz would have completely neutralized him as a hitter. There is a whole website devoted to this.
 

mauf

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I'm sure the Sox players were hot after the play on Friday night, but the slow-motion replay made it pretty clear that the spiking was unintentional -- Machado realized what had happened and immediately reached up to Pedroia, as if to see if he was OK. If Farrell decided some sort of retaliation was still required, an inside fastball around the waist would have been more than sufficient.

Barnes's case is very unsympathetic, and I'll be surprised if that 4-game suspension gets reduced on appeal.
 

Captaincoop

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I can't stand Farrell and still can't stoop as low as Olney does - accusing him of letting the media "bully" him into ordering a beanball. Give me a break.

Also, the fact that Machado apologized doesn't indicate anything about his intent. Once he hurt Pedroia, I'm sure it dawned on him pretty quickly with his history that there might be repercussions, so an apology would be in his own best interests.
 

BigPapiMPD34

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I still don't get why Vazquez set up for a fastball down and away. Barnes specifically stated that he was "trying to go up and in." Maybe I'm reading between the lines too much, but it almost seems like Barnes tried to hit him, but Vazquez (and Pedroia) wanted no involvement in it.

Also, the radar gun showed it at 90 MPH, which seems odd, but that might be a malfunction since the pitch didn't travel the anticipated 60 feet 60 inches (it went to the backstop). Not sure if that could throw off the gun.

Either way, I don't think people should ever assume that a pitcher is head hunting. He could have been trying to hit him in the back. It's not like Barnes actually has good aim.
 

mauf

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I can't stand Farrell and still can't stoop as low as Olney does - accusing him of letting the media "bully" him into ordering a beanball. Give me a break.

Also, the fact that Machado apologized doesn't indicate anything about his intent. Once he hurt Pedroia, I'm sure it dawned on him pretty quickly with his history that there might be repercussions, so an apology would be in his own best interests.
If you look at the replay, his response was immediate and instinctive -- not nearly enough time to think about repercussions, etc. I'm not saying that makes everything OK, but I'm not sure how you watch that and think a beanball is a proportionate response. (Not that a beanball is appropriate under any circumstances, but I might have a little sympathy for Barnes if he threw at Machado the first time he came to the dish after the incident, as opposed to two days later.)
 

RG33

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I agree with the assertion that the Red Sox botched this whole thing on numerous fronts. As tough as it was to see Pedroia hurt, regardless of Machado's history, I didn't think it was a "dirty" play. It was more in the awkward slide category for me -- and it ended poorly.

Barnes throwing at his head is unacceptable. Period. I have no problem with the 4 game suspension, and would have been fine with 6 or 8 games. There just is zero place in the game for that crap.

I was also very surprised at Pedroia's reaction -- as much as I think he was defending in his own honor with regards to what he probably said to Machado via text and his comments after the game, it was bad form for him to clearly roll his teammates/coaches under the bus so blatantly on TV. I would probably be fairly pissed at him if I were a teammate -- similar to head-hunting, you just don't do that either. He looked bad I thought.
 

Captaincoop

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If you look at the replay, his response was immediate and instinctive -- not nearly enough time to think about repercussions, etc. I'm not saying that makes everything OK, but I'm not sure how you watch that and think a beanball is a proportionate response. (Not that a beanball is appropriate under any circumstances, but I might have a little sympathy for Barnes if he threw at Machado the first time he came to the dish after the incident, as opposed to two days later.)
Machado is a career (expletive). I would imagine his phony contrition reflex is pretty well-developed by now.

I am not justifying throwing at his head, that stuff has always been stupid. But he has a long history of doing stupid and dangerous things on a baseball field. I'm not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the slide. And as I said in another thread, if MLB is going to force middle infielders to stand directly on the bag instead of giving them the "neighborhood" call, they should be aggressive in holding guys accountable when they make a dangerous slide.
 

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Farrell gets blame because he should have taken control and said either "first time up on Saturday, plunk him in the hip" or "no retaliation."
Not a big fan of sending a message with a knuckleball. I'm OK with waiting for late Sunday. Not like we could count on Wright and ERod to go 7 each. But he took out Pedey, so the hip is too low. Midsection/ribs/back. Had it been Marrero or someone, it's hip.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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I'm sure the Sox players were hot after the play on Friday night, but the slow-motion replay made it pretty clear that the spiking was unintentional -- Machado realized what had happened and immediately reached up to Pedroia, as if to see if he was OK.
Even if you assume this was sincere, it doesn't mean that he wasn't going into Pedroia on purpose; it might just mean that he got him a little harder, or in a more vulnerable spot, than he had expected.

I have trouble understanding how a guy can be a player for as long as Machado has been and not have a pretty good idea where his slide is going to end up when he starts it. Not to mention the whole spikes-high thing. I mean, I feel pretty sure there's a reason why "spikes high" is a phrase, and I feel pretty sure it's not because that's the natural and inevitable position of the feet as you finish a slide.

I just don't see how you can watch that clip and have serious doubt that Machado was sliding deliberately and aggressively into Pedroia, as players trying to break up the DP have done for as long as there has been such a thing. Maybe the result was a little beyond his intent, and his reaction was sincere. Or maybe he was Eddie Haskelling all the way. Either way, the Sox had reason to be pissed off, but not to throw at his head.
 
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JohntheBaptist

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It's not like Barnes actually has good aim.
That's a pretty good reason not to take retaliation into your own hands. Something like this (or worse) can happen.

Machado is a career (expletive). I would imagine his phony contrition reflex is pretty well-developed by now.
Lol--"phony contrition reflex"? You're serious?

Pedroia seemed pretty much fine with it and his subsequent apology.
 

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Not a big fan of sending a message with a knuckleball. I'm OK with waiting for late Sunday. Not like we could count on Wright and ERod to go 7 each. But he took out Pedey, so the hip is too low. Midsection/ribs/back. Had it been Marrero or someone, it's hip.
It's not like Wright throws 75. IIRC, he tops out around 85. (Just confirmed on Brooks)

Enough of a message.
 

JohntheBaptist

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It would take a real criminal mastermind to figure out within a second or two that he should pretend he didn't injure someone intentionally.
We should totally continue to ignore the words of the guy it happened to--the guy that knows the offending party and not only had no problem with it but reported his apology.

But you saw Machado do some other stuff some other time so he probably spiked him for no reason whatsoever and then feigned contrition not only in the moment, but after the game. Makes sense.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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We should totally continue to ignore the words of the guy it happened to--the guy that knows the offending party and not only had no problem with it but reported his apology.
It would be foolish to take all the things players say and do regarding incidents like this at face value. This is a dance, and "I don't think he meant to do it, we've talked, we're good" is one of the steps.
 

Toe Nash

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Not a big fan of sending a message with a knuckleball. I'm OK with waiting for late Sunday. Not like we could count on Wright and ERod to go 7 each. But he took out Pedey, so the hip is too low. Midsection/ribs/back. Had it been Marrero or someone, it's hip.
So the place you hit a guy varies depending on how good the player you're retaliating for is? I learn something new about the unwritten rules every day. If they had hurt Barry Bonds, is it then OK to throw at the head? Does the fact that it was a top 5 MLB player in Machado figure into the calculus?

Retaliation is so dumb in baseball and they should take out frustration by winning games (something they haven't done against Baltimore particularly well since Sep 2011). It's like fighting in hockey except it's not actually a contact sport and you're not actually allowed to face off and fight.

Do players actually feel better after a player gets hit and they get "payback"? "Hell yeah, he got a small bruise on his thigh. We're even!"
 

Van Everyman

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Why is everyone assuming Barnes tried to throw at his head? And by "everyone," I also mean Olney, etc. I think it's pretty clear from what I read that EdRo tried and failed to hit him low and that Barnes was trying to hit him– but I don't see any suggestion that throwing at his head was intentional. Just poor command.

I feel like intent matters. And if they were trying to throw low at his legs a bunch and failed and then one that got away got near his head (and, BTW, missed), that shouldn't be the difference in a 4-game suspension versus either one or no suspension at all.

This whole thing seems stupid – including the whole "The Red Sox messed this up" angle. Sure they didn't execute the Code Red very effectively but it's a dumb tradition and people are hanging too much responsibility on the everyday mistake of a relief pitcher who felt like it was his duty to stand up for his teammate.
 

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I doubt he even meant to spike him, he just put it out there that "hey, in this slide, it could happen. watch out." Then it happened and he definitely had an "oh shit" moment and apologized. So the intent to hurt is probably not there, but it was reckless. You can believe all of these things, even intent, and still think the retaliation was stupid.

In a similar vein, Barnes is a moron but I doubt he aimed for the head.

Let's remember some of these dudes aren't far removed from the age where a lot of dangerous, stupid shit might seem like a fun idea, even sober.
 

chrisfont9

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Thanks Van Everyman and Flunky, I've been yelling this on a few comment threads of the various articles where the author will say "I would never assume Machado meant to hurt Pedroia" and then immediately assume Barnes intended to throw at Machado. The only excuse for such transparent inconsistency I can think of, besides laziness, is that nobody can let go of a sexy beanball story angle for something as mundane as incompetence. But to assume Barnes is this stupid is,... well, pretty stupid.
 

chrisfont9

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Also, it strikes me as weird that beanball culture still exists. I'm no historian, so the rest of this post might be wrong, but didn't it come from a bygone era where players came from nothing and baseball was their only hope for a decent life? If Ty Cobb threatened your career with a murderous takeout slide, wouldn't you ask your pitcher to threaten his life with a fastball around his head? That sort of desperation/nothing to lose existence is long, long gone from the game, even among most of the Latin players (once they get to the US anyway). So now it's about a bit of machismo and a feeling that maybe there's an unwritten rule you're supposed to live by. And maybe a bit of protection, but the discipline rules themselves are much more of a deterrence for dangerous play than a half-hearted fastball in your quad.

Seems like knowing where the unwritten rules came from is one step toward deciding that they don't apply anymore.
 

lexrageorge

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The so-called violation of "unwritten rules" is usually cover for just making shit up. I see nothing in this incident to indicate otherwise.
 

Average Reds

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Why is everyone assuming Barnes tried to throw at his head? And by "everyone," I also mean Olney, etc. I think it's pretty clear from what I read that EdRo tried and failed to hit him low and that Barnes was trying to hit him– but I don't see any suggestion that throwing at his head was intentional. Just poor command.

I feel like intent matters. And if they were trying to throw low at his legs a bunch and failed and then one that got away got near his head (and, BTW, missed), that shouldn't be the difference in a 4-game suspension versus either one or no suspension at all.

This whole thing seems stupid – including the whole "The Red Sox messed this up" angle. Sure they didn't execute the Code Red very effectively but it's a dumb tradition and people are hanging too much responsibility on the everyday mistake of a relief pitcher who felt like it was his duty to stand up for his teammate.
The gnashing of teeth might be a bit much to you, but there's a reason for it: throwing behind a batter's head has always been considered to be one of the worst things a pitcher can do, because it preys on the batter's instinct to back away. (Which can have the effect of placing his head in the path of the ball.)

Now, what Barnes did was so far behind his head that this really doesn't apply. But Barnes is getting cut no slack because everyone says "the ball got away from me" and in the vast majority of cases it's complete BS.

Throw at a batter's head and you're going to face a backlash. Throw behind a batter's head and you're going to face a figurative lynch mob. (Olney is a good example of this.)
 

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I have trouble understanding how a guy can be a player for as long as Machado has been and not have a pretty good idea where his slide is going to end up when he starts it. Not to mention the whole spikes-high thing. I mean, I feel pretty sure there's a reason why "spikes high" is a phrase, and I feel pretty sure it's not because that's the natural and inevitable position of the feet as you finish a slide.

I just don't see how you can watch that clip and have serious doubt that Machado was sliding deliberately and aggressively into Pedroia, as players trying to break up the DP have done for as long as there has been such a thing. Maybe the result was a little beyond his intent, and his reaction was sincere. Or maybe he was Eddie Haskelling all the way. Either way, the Sox had reason to be pissed off, but not to throw at his head.
This is where I am too. Thanks Savin, for spelling it out.
The thing about that particular play at second was that it was so slow to develop. Pedroia was stretching to receive the throw from Bogaerts, making a double play turn unlikely. That Machado went in so late and so hard on Pedroia in a fairly compromised position is what's so bad. If there are unwritten rules about the right way to plunk someone, there most certainly are rules about the right way to break up a double play. Machado's history of not picking up on these subtleties leads to the desire to set things (or him) straight. It's an unfortunate but very real part of the game.

Stupid as it may sound, Kelly's grooved fastball may be the olive branch.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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So the place you hit a guy varies depending on how good the player you're retaliating for is? I learn something new about the unwritten rules every day. If they had hurt Barry Bonds, is it then OK to throw at the head? Does the fact that it was a top 5 MLB player in Machado figure into the calculus?

Retaliation is so dumb in baseball and they should take out frustration by winning games (something they haven't done against Baltimore particularly well since Sep 2011). It's like fighting in hockey except it's not actually a contact sport and you're not actually allowed to face off and fight.

Do players actually feel better after a player gets hit and they get "payback"? "Hell yeah, he got a small bruise on his thigh. We're even!"
I don't think head is ever called for and I question whether Barnes was aiming at his head, even though it got up there. He was clearly trying to hit him because he said he was looking to go inside and Vazquez was set up low and away. So I think the truth is he was aiming at his ribs or back and it got up and away. Or he was aiming waaay behind his head and it got too close. But it appears they were trying to hit him last AB.

I believe the level of the player they messed with dictates where the hbp is going to be. But I don't agree with going at a head.

For reasons that had to do with pitcher management, it didn't make sense to get either starter thrown out in the first inning of either Sat or Sun game. And if you hit him with Wright's best fastball, everyone knows Machado gets off easy. I would think that was Farrell's call. "Not before the 6th" or something like that.

And yes I know its stupid.

Side story, a friend of mine pitched for Clemson when Brian Roberts was at UNC. In their last college series one year, Roberts did something to show him up. Pimped a hit, stole 2nd and 3rd with a big lead. Something like that. My friend says "unwritten rules". So its much later and they are teammates trying out for the USA team. Roommates at night, and my friend tells him the night before a scrimmage, he's going to hit him in the scrimmage the next day (first AB since the incident). Roberts begs, says we're on the same team, its team USA tryouts, etc., etc. Friend says "unwritten rules" plugs him in the shin and puts him out of the game. When he told me this story I kept pressing him, taking Roberts' side. He kept saying "unwritten rules". That was about all he'd say to explain it. Yeah, its stupid, but it is what it is.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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I doubt he even meant to spike him, he just put it out there that "hey, in this slide, it could happen. watch out." Then it happened and he definitely had an "oh shit" moment and apologized. So the intent to hurt is probably not there, but it was reckless. You can believe all of these things, even intent, and still think the retaliation was stupid.

In a similar vein, Barnes is a moron but I doubt he aimed for the head.

Let's remember some of these dudes aren't far removed from the age where a lot of dangerous, stupid shit might seem like a fun idea, even sober.
Barnes is 26. Machado is 24. Neither is a child and many years have gone by since either could be considered one.

MLB should be hammering both of these guys with significant suspensions. Machado may not have intended to spike Pedroia but he was trying to slide out into left field through a second baseman who was in no way in his path or able to defend himself. Barnes regularly loses pitches up in the zone and due to a lack of self awareness thought he could drill Machado in the back and didn't consider the risk of a pitch sailing head high. This garbage needs to stop and MLB continues to let it happen. Year after year.
 

koufax37

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Not a big fan of sending a message with a knuckleball. I'm OK with waiting for late Sunday. Not like we could count on Wright and ERod to go 7 each. But he took out Pedey, so the hip is too low. Midsection/ribs/back. Had it been Marrero or someone, it's hip.
I'm pretty sure his 86MPH fastball would have sent the same message.

Hitting players on purpose is harder than it looks, and I don't think ERod was aiming for the ankles, and I don't think Barnes was head hunting. It is an altered release point that you don't practice. With most righty arm slots when you actually miss in to a righty, you are up and have released early, and for a lefty you are down with a later release. That is consistent with the failure to execute of both Barnes and ERod.

I don't like that it wasn't Wright on Saturday doing it, and I don't like that Pedey publicly called out his team both on camera and to the media instead of handling that privately.

I also don't have a problem with Pedey not asking for retaliation and being fine with the slide, and the team still having Wright send a message to "Slide more carefully next time, even if Pedey says he doesn't care". I prefer when these things don't come from Farrell as officially company policy, and don't come from the player in question (it should be "we have your back", not "can you guys please get my back").

If if was anybody other than Pedey, he would likely be the veteran to make it happen, although Porcello or a healthy Price would both have that position as well. With all the youth and newcomers, the only players other than Pedey that could really tell Wright what to do would be Hanley or Leon.

So we got what we had there, a mis-timed, ill-executed response in a power vacuum moment, when in an ideal world I think this would have been Porcello telling Wright to 86 him Saturday.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Side story, a friend of mine pitched for Clemson when Brian Roberts was at UNC. In their last college series one year, Roberts did something to show him up. Pimped a hit, stole 2nd and 3rd with a big lead. Something like that. My friend says "unwritten rules". So its much later and they are teammates trying out for the USA team. Roommates at night, and my friend tells him the night before a scrimmage, he's going to hit him in the scrimmage the next day (first AB since the incident). Roberts begs, says we're on the same team, its team USA tryouts, etc., etc. Friend says "unwritten rules" plugs him in the shin and puts him out of the game. When he told me this story I kept pressing him, taking Roberts' side. He kept saying "unwritten rules". That was about all he'd say to explain it. Yeah, its stupid, but it is what it is.
Let's recap:

After being beaten in a contest of skill, your friend, embarrassed by his own inadequacy, waited a prolonged period of time for revenge, then told the victim his plan in advance, ignored pleas from the victim to not go through with it, and then threw a large rock 90 mph at the victim, who was in a near defenseless position, causing injury/harm.

I know a lot of what happens during sporting events, including fights, generally flies as part of the game/competition/whatever but there are limits. If your friend tried to hit Roberts in the thigh and instead caught him in the temple and killed him that "unwritten rules" nonsense wouldn't help him. He would be looking at a Marty McSorely or Todd Bertuzzi type of police/legal reaction but with a dead body.
 

lexrageorge

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I don't think head is ever called for and I question whether Barnes was aiming at his head, even though it got up there. He was clearly trying to hit him because he said he was looking to go inside and Vazquez was set up low and away. So I think the truth is he was aiming at his ribs or back and it got up and away. Or he was aiming waaay behind his head and it got too close. But it appears they were trying to hit him last AB.

I believe the level of the player they messed with dictates where the hbp is going to be. But I don't agree with going at a head.

For reasons that had to do with pitcher management, it didn't make sense to get either starter thrown out in the first inning of either Sat or Sun game. And if you hit him with Wright's best fastball, everyone knows Machado gets off easy. I would think that was Farrell's call. "Not before the 6th" or something like that.

And yes I know its stupid.

Side story, a friend of mine pitched for Clemson when Brian Roberts was at UNC. In their last college series one year, Roberts did something to show him up. Pimped a hit, stole 2nd and 3rd with a big lead. Something like that. My friend says "unwritten rules". So its much later and they are teammates trying out for the USA team. Roommates at night, and my friend tells him the night before a scrimmage, he's going to hit him in the scrimmage the next day (first AB since the incident). Roberts begs, says we're on the same team, its team USA tryouts, etc., etc. Friend says "unwritten rules" plugs him in the shin and puts him out of the game. When he told me this story I kept pressing him, taking Roberts' side. He kept saying "unwritten rules". That was about all he'd say to explain it. Yeah, its stupid, but it is what it is.
If I was the manager, and found out about this, I would fired your friend's ass from the team, saying it's necessary due to "unwritten rules".