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Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:49 PM.
Schefter: Bills have acquired CB E.J. Gaines and Rams 2018 second round pick for WR Sammy Watkins and Bills 2018 sixth round pick.
Anyone know anything about Gaines?
Wow, so they basically swapped out Watkins for Matthews and Darby for Gaines and also picked up an early second rounder. Hmmmm...
wasn't Watkins their most talented WR? lol
They now have 2 1sts, 2 2nds, and 2 3rds next year. Not a bad day. But that trade up for Watkins a few years ago looks even worse now. They passed on Beckham and Khalil Mack for him.
Must be a sign his foot issues from last year are good. Can't imagine the trade would go through if anything was popping up on his medicals. Good fantasy bit of info.
Rams have potential to create problems if they use Sammy and Tavon correctly.
With Goff throwing the ball, all the speed in the world won't matter.
Jordan Matthews to the Bills as a follow up move
Watkins couldn't stay healthy. Broken ribs, a groin injury, and a hip problem that required surgery, leg injuries, and a broken foot, to name a few. Bills declined 5th year option presumably since the $13+MM would have been guaranteed for injury.
Rams have some upside here since if he performs well they could franchise him for just a few million more than the 5th year option would have paid him. However, since he's never really played a full season at full strength, it will be interesting to see what he does in a contract year.
I don't think you can do anything about what you paid for Watkins originally. That is in the past. Looking at today's moves on their own, I think the Bill have done well.
Out: WR Watkins, CB Darby
In: WR Matthews, CB Gaines, 2nd Round Pick from the Rams, 3rd Round Pick from the Eagles.
Minor nitpick but the Bills gave up a 6th in the Watkins deal as well.
The re-Bill-ding comes early this year.
Thanks, and I know that the Bills downgraded at CB and at WR (although with Watkins injury history and contract situation I don't think Matthews is a big downgrade). Still and all, I think it's the right direction for the Bills. They might be able to compete with the Dolphins for second best team in the division this year based on the Dolphins recent injuries, but the Bills need to build their team for the long term.
I think today's trades were good moves.
That said, I like to think that the Bills saw the recent Dolphins injuries and were like 'shit, the Dolphins might be worse than us now, let's do something.'
Not to sound presumptuous but it almost seems like the Jets (they are for sure) and Bills are conceding this season and looking to the future...couple that with Miami's injuries and the Pats are looking like they should be able to win the division with relative ease this year.
So you're saying the division is not wide open?
Which is amazing, considering how much they looked like a young up-and-comer before they hired Rex. Its crazy how much he set them back.
Agree that these two moves are good for the Bills. They lose little value for now and get surplus value for the future.
Rex sealed that opening like Auric Goldfinger.
I wouldn't blame Rex for that. The trade up for Watkins was the year before he arrived (so they didn't have a first-round pick in Rex's first year). The Bills' problems start at the top - they zig and then three years later they zag and they have to jettison good players like Darby who don't fit in any more. They are a rudderless organization with no vision and so every hire appears to be an overreaction to the previous hire.
The Watkins trade was a misstep (certainly ex post, and probably ex ante), but the Bills seemed to be on the right track (at last) under Marrone. Then, the team got sold, Marrone exercised his option to leave the team, and the new bosses hired Rex Ryan. Now they're a train wreck.
>it will be interesting to see what he does in a contract year.
He will get hurt. Its what he does.
The fact that they sold the team and Marrone opted out indicates the organizational dysfunction predates Rex. He was not the solution, and his hire caused more problems, but he was more a symptom of the problem than the problem itself.
This team just cannot get out of its own way. They finally lived up to their defensive talent in 2014 under Jim Schwartz, so then they hire Rex, who runs a completely different defense than Schwartz. So then they jettison guys like Kiko Alonso and Ross Cockrell who don't fit Rex's scheme in favor of guys like Ronald Darby and Reggie Ragland. And after giving Rex two years (one without a first-round pick), he's gone, and now they hired Sean McDermott, who runs, again, a totally different system. Darby is already gone; we'll see what happens with Ragland. And two or three years from now when they fire McDermott, they'll probably decide to totally change direction again.
And let's not lose perspective: they went 15-17 in two years under Marrone and 15-16 in two years under Ryan. The defense was disappointing under Rex, but by the same token, the offense was lousy under Marrone, who is supposed to be an offensive guru. This wasn't Jed York / Trent Baalke ruining the 49ers.
Marrone will have a chance to demonstrate his offensive chops this season; if he can coax adequate play out of the offensive line, the Jags have the weapons to be pretty good on offense, and very good if Bortles takes a big step forward (which I wouldn't bet on).
Lombardi has killed Bortles on every podcast he's ever done. So he agrees with you.
As for Marrone, he was rumored to coach the Jets a few years ago so I tried to read as much as I could about him. He seemed to specialize in making chicken salad out of chicken shit(especially at Syracuse) but I never found anything that gave me insight into how he would do with talent. I would have been fine with him coaching the Jets so I'll be interested to see what he does with the Jags.
It amazes me that Rex still has apologists. Marrone took a bad team, matched the record he inherited and then increased it by 3 wins. Rex came in and flipped any momentum they had.
6-10, 9-7, 8-8, 7-9
It's not about being an apologist, or not. Rex was the wrong hire. He was the wrong hire because the team was already good at defense and Rex was going to burn down the defensive scheme to the ground. It was obvious he was going to want to do it, just as it's obvious that Sean McDermott is going to want to burn Rex's scheme to the ground and build his own thing. To me, the dumb part isn't Rex being Rex; it's hiring Rex if you didn't want him to be Rex.
For what it's worth, I think Rex was dumb to take the job, too - why join a place where you're going to want to rehaul the defensive scheme but they're still expecting you to win right away? He was set up to fail, and both he and Buffalo are responsible for that.
You know who didn't think Marrone was building a budding dynasty in Buffalo? Doug Marrone, or he wouldn't have opted out. The 9-7 record looks good, but they knew they'd whiffed on E.J. Manuel and had to coax Kyle Orton out of semi-retirement to helm the team. And they were down a first because of the Sammy Watkins disaster trade. And then ownership / relocation hanging over their heads. It was a lousy situation improved somewhat by falling into respectable QB play in the person of Tyrod Taylor. The new group running the team was at least smart enough to make it obvious that they're in rebuild mode.
I don't think it was dumb for Rex to take the job. It's not like he had an abundance of opportunities to be a head coach in the NFL again after the Jets debacle. He knew this was likely his last shot and he wanted the $$$.
No..that's the dumb part. Maybe not the only dumb part, but it was idiotically dumb.
His Jets tenure, as a whole, wasn't a debacle. Most coaching hires don't last six seasons or make two playoff appearances (median length is about three years, and about half the hires never make the playoffs). His track record with the Jets is very similar to Gary Kubiak in Houston, for instance. I would expect a coach with Ryan's track record to get another head coaching gig at some point. His mistake was taking the first job he was offered instead of taking a DC gig (or even a media role) and biding his time, waiting for the right opening. Now, barring a miracle, he is done as a HC.
Anyone else looking forward to his pearls of wisdom on ESPN's Sunday NFL Countdown this fall?
I agree that his Jets tenure as a whole wasn't a debacle. His first two seasons were very good while the balance of his time with the team was middling to poor. He could have taken his time and been more selective about his next job after the Jets however a patient approach does not seem to fit his style and taking the Bills job had appearences of being a good fit at the outset.
It's kind of like when Mangini took the Browns job. Just a bad decision. I wonder if Indy would be interested after they fire Pagano. He could re-make that D on a fast turf and leave the offense to someone else.
Rex's ego would not allow him to turn down a job in the division with a chance to both prove the Jets wrong and also finally dethrone the Patriots.
I think we don't really know why Marrone left, and he hasn't said. It certainly may be that he thought the team was headed in the wrong direction; but it might be that he made a play for more control and more years and got shot down; or it may be he doubted the Pegulas would be good owners (which, it would appear, was a correct assessment). Doesn't change the other points you made, but Marrone's case remains strange and to me unclear.
That 9 and 7 record needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The Pats basically took the week 17 game off against the Bills so I'm not sure if I would give Marrone full credit for that game. if you that game away, then Martine goes 6 -10 and 8 -8. I'm not one of Rex's fans, but let's not prepare Doug Marrone's bust for the Hall of Fame just yet.
Meanwhile Jordan Matthews got a chip fracture in his sternum 15 minutes into practice one and is "week to week"
Might be Boldin and Zay Jones starting week 1.