Brady wants to "divorce" Belichick

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Papelbon's Poutine

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I can believe this. And honestly, winning-is-everything just isn't for everyone. Personally, I'd be fine if my company was third in market share if it was a great place to work and I loved being there. I don't have to "win" all the time. It's not sports but it's the same principle. There are some players who want to win above all else and are willing to be "all football, all the time, remorselessly" guys, and there are others who say, "Yeah, winning matters to me but I want the freedom to speak out, I want to have more enjoyment at my job so winning isn't EVERYTHING".
Yeah, it's not the same principle. I'm not sure what you do for a living, but sports is a zero sum game - either you win or you don't, there's not levels to success like there is in business. I don't disagree with your stance - I work for a small independent in my industry, which is comprised almost entirely of people that formerly worked for the big corporate national competitors and they made that change (and likely sacrificed a little $) for the lifestyle change. They can work here and be just as personally successful as they were at their old employer. That's a little different in my view than saying "I'm going to a shitty team because I got tired of the culture and am ok with playing out the string. Oh, by the way, they gave me an extra $15M, but that had nothing to do with it."

As someone else stated, I don't question Theo's story or that Solder even weighs that more as some kind of self-justification for leaving. And I harbor no ill will to him, players should grab the money they can, while they can. I'm just doubting that it's not hindsight a bit and that if the Pats had matched, he wouldn't have come back.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
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I'm sure this played a role. But I'll give Theo's friend a pass for not exploring that particular issue in a playground conversation. At the same time, if Solder were asked in a more formal setting, I think he would freely admit to the $$$$$ guarantee as being a large part.
I’m not doubting Theo’s buddy at all. I’m sure that’s what Solder said to him. A lot of people don’t like to say that they left a job for more money. It’s much easier for them to talk about how the new place has a “friendlier culture” or “offers a better work/life balance”. However I doubt that these things would have mattered to Solder, or any other player, if New England were the ones offering $30 million guaranteed and New York was offering significantly less.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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I’m not doubting Theo’s buddy at all. I’m sure that’s what Solder said to him. A lot of people don’t like to say that they left a job for more money. It’s much easier for them to talk about how the new place has a “friendlier culture” or “offers a better work/life balance”. However I doubt that these things would have mattered to Solder, or any other player, if New England were the ones offering $30 million guaranteed and New York was offering significantly less.
Plus let's ask him after a couple of years if the Giants continue in mediocrity and if the Pats continue their epic run. Grass is always Greener - at least in the beginning!
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Yeah, it's not the same principle. I'm not sure what you do for a living, but sports is a zero sum game - either you win or you don't, there's not levels to success like there is in business. I don't disagree with your stance - I work for a small independent in my industry, which is comprised almost entirely of people that formerly worked for the big corporate national competitors and they made that change (and likely sacrificed a little $) for the lifestyle change. They can work here and be just as personally successful as they were at their old employer. That's a little different in my view than saying "I'm going to a shitty team because I got tired of the culture and am ok with playing out the string. Oh, by the way, they gave me an extra $15M, but that had nothing to do with it."

As someone else stated, I don't question Theo's story or that Solder even weighs that more as some kind of self-justification for leaving. And I harbor no ill will to him, players should grab the money they can, while they can. I'm just doubting that it's not hindsight a bit and that if the Pats had matched, he wouldn't have come back.
Either you win or you don't, that's true. But that's also true when seeking to get the Johnson and Johnson account. Either my company gets it, or someone else's does. My company either wins the account or loses it. So industry can be seen that way as well. And yet in the big picture, though one team wins the ultimate championship, there are all kinds of ways to still be successful. Winning your conference. Winning your division. Having the first .500 record in years. Making the playoffs. There's all sorts of ways to define success even if you're not at the top. Our team is in a position where it's all or nothing. But don't you think that the players on Cleveland would feel a great deal of satisfaction if they made the playoffs this year? That they'd consider that to be a huge success? Just because WE define success as Lombardis (aren't we privileged!) doesn't mean that everyone else does.

So I get your point, but I do think that in sports there absolutely ARE levels of success, when seasons are taken as a whole, even if individual games are zero sum games.
 

Salem's Lot

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Plus let's ask him after a couple of years if the Giants continue in mediocrity and if the Pats continue their epic run. Grass is always Greener - at least in the beginning!
I’m sure after two super bowl rings and at 30 years old he’d rather have the lifetime of security for his family. I never begrudge players in any sport (especially in one where the owners won’t guarantee the contracts of their players, while they extort the public sector into building them new stadiums, all while achieving record revenues)from getting the most money then can whenever they can get it.
 

InstaFace

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I don't think anyone was begrudging Solder, just either calling bullshit on his stated motivation, or considering what it implies for the culture in Foxboro.
 

BigSoxFan

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He left for different reasons, but I'd love to hear from Shane Vereen on this. Giants have been a shitshow since he's been there.
I bet Vereen has no regrets. He’s not on the Giants anymore and is probably out of the league for good. Have to get the money while you can.
 

Pandemonium67

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In Solder's case, another factor could be the hell that his child and family have been through. There's nothing like a truly sick infant to put life -- and football games -- into perspective. He's won Super Bowls, so there's just not that much more to achieve. Millions of dollars more, a (perceived) more pleasant working environment -- that's plenty enticing.

Foxboro is what it is and it ain't for everyone.
 

rodderick

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Foxboro is what it is and it ain't for everyone.
Yup. At this point, I think it's pretty naive to pooh-pooh this notion. You think all those Lane Johnson comments came from nowhere? Players talk, the perception around the league is that the Patriots aren't a fun team to be on, and I have little reason to doubt that's true. It could also be part of the reason why so many coaches from the Belichick tree have failed: it's incredibly hard to cultivate that kind of environment without the winning to back it up.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Either you win or you don't, that's true. But that's also true when seeking to get the Johnson and Johnson account. Either my company gets it, or someone else's does. My company either wins the account or loses it. So industry can be seen that way as well. And yet in the big picture, though one team wins the ultimate championship, there are all kinds of ways to still be successful. Winning your conference. Winning your division. Having the first .500 record in years. Making the playoffs. There's all sorts of ways to define success even if you're not at the top. Our team is in a position where it's all or nothing. But don't you think that the players on Cleveland would feel a great deal of satisfaction if they made the playoffs this year? That they'd consider that to be a huge success? Just because WE define success as Lombardis (aren't we privileged!) doesn't mean that everyone else does.

So I get your point, but I do think that in sports there absolutely ARE levels of success, when seasons are taken as a whole, even if individual games are zero sum games.
If your company doesn't get the J&J account, they can go get another one. You also have a longer shelf life to go after it again.

Are there smaller victories? Of course. But how much time have we spent mocking the Colts for their dumb banners celebrating divisions and being a conference finalist? I agree that not all players are built the same way and again, don't begrudge Solder for taking his payday - he owes me no loyalty, nor any fan. That being said, if anyone honestly believes if he didn't own two rings and the offers had been equal, he'd be singing same tune? Yeah, not buying it. Whether we as fans can consider a season successful without a trophy, that's one thing. I don't want a player on any of my favorite teams being content with anything less. End of day, if you don't get the account you were going after, there's other ones out there; if his team loses every week, there's not a whole hell of a lot he can do to change that.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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There's also this to consider: it's very possible for a team to win a SB while "having fun"; the Seahawks were a pretty loose group when they won, and the Eagles certainly seem to think they proved a point when they won as Lane Johnson has elaborated at length. But, it's far, far more difficult to maintain that success, and "fun" can quickly turn to resentment if the success isn't repeated. Seattle has imploded after SB 49, and the Eagles are 1-1 and Foles looks like crap this year, although obviously it's too early to tell with them.

The Pats have had 19 YEARS of unprecedented success. The focus required to maintain such levels of success must be mindblowing.
 

SMU_Sox

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I’m more concerned about the talent on the front 7 and coaching the defense right now vs tabloid fodder. Oh no, in their 19 years together they had some road blocks? No shit. In a hyper competitive environment you have conflicts.
Can we stop a crossing route on 3rd down should be more discussed than this, in my humble opinion. I suppose this horseshit makes better click bait than a detailed X’s and O’s breakdown but I think the latter is more interesting and productive to read and discuss. But here I am mashing my fat thumbs over it all sweaty and red in the face.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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If your company doesn't get the J&J account, they can go get another one.
Maybe. But lots of businesses don't get the accounts and end up going bankrupt.

Look, it's not a perfect analogy but people in business do understand the win/lose component of competition because the business world IS competition.

You also have a longer shelf life to go after it again.

Are there smaller victories? Of course. But how much time have we spent mocking the Colts for their dumb banners celebrating divisions and being a conference finalist?
Like I said, WE mock them because we're fans of the most successful franchise over the last 35 years in the NFL. But other teams see success differently, as well they should. Pre-BB, we celebrated different kinds of success - winning the division was a big deal.

I agree that not all players are built the same way and again, don't begrudge Solder for taking his payday - he owes me no loyalty, nor any fan. That being said, if anyone honestly believes if he didn't own two rings and the offers had been equal, he'd be singing same tune? Yeah, not buying it. Whether we as fans can consider a season successful without a trophy, that's one thing. I don't want a player on any of my favorite teams being content with anything less. End of day, if you don't get the account you were going after, there's other ones out there; if his team loses every week, there's not a whole hell of a lot he can do to change that.
Yep, you may be right on the money here.
 

BostonWolverine

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Dec 6, 2017
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I was just watching LT’s a football life documentary and in it there’s a press conference where Bill talks about LT, Moss, and Brady having this innate understanding of the game and it being one of the key aspects of making them all time greats. So, that eliminates the Bill never compliments or doesn’t appreciate Brady narrative.
 

InstaFace

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Sally Jenkins and Peyton Manning need to remember that BB does actually have player-crushes. But don't expect him to get sentimental about much short of those kind of names.

edit: this bit was pretty great though...
There are hints of personality, discreet murmurs from friends about how well-read he is, what a rock-and-roll nut he is, but little from the man himself. Author Mark Leibovich, who spent months following the Patriots for his revealing new book on the NFL, “Big Game,” hopefully approached Belichick at a party following a White House reception to honor the 2017 champions. He mentioned that he had written a piece on Tom Brady that had appeared in the New York Times Magazine on Super Bowl Sunday. Belichick just said, “Yeah, I was busy that day,” and walked away.
 
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cornwalls@6

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Sally Jenkins and Peyton Manning need to remember that BB does actually have player-crushes. But don't expect him to get sentimental about much short of those kind of names.

edit: this bit was pretty great though...
Just when I thought I couldn't love him anymore. Jesus, that's brilliant. Dickish-ness taken to a whole new level of performance art. Perfection. Thanks for the share.
 

Reverend

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Has anyone pointed out that, according to COs, even hardened psychopathic criminals in max security pens generally lose their fire and aren't physically problems anymore because they mellow out a bit around age 40.

I'm wondering if Brady, and much of the "smoke" around these stories, is actually, at root, a function of the fact that nobody can ever play at as high a level as Brady has at his age, so we have no sample to compare him too...

Like, in what universe would it make sense for him to have the same fire for the game? And I don't mean the mental discipline to want to compete--I mean the will to smash in to people. That goes. It doesn't even make him less superhuman imo; it's just a function of the human part.
 
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