Celtics Draft Jayson Tatum at #3

The Needler

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Even if you're concerned about giving him too much responsibility - and I don't think running an occasional pick and roll with him is too much responsibility - the team, and Jayson, for that matter, needs to be taking better advantage of his shooting. He's looking off too many open 3's, and there aren't enough plays being run for him. When you have a guy shooting nearly 50% from three point land, with Tatum's handle - you run that guy off screens and find him for more than 3's in transition and off drives and kicks. I would love to see him as the roll man, even, for some pick and pop. That play has been deadly for other teams with SFs who can shoot.

It's gotta be better than what the second unit offense is doing right now.
They haven't practiced in weeks (months?). Brad has said how excited he is for December 30, when they actually get to practice. I would expect we are going to see a few more wrinkles involving Jayson in the new year.
 

DannyDarwinism

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It seems like every game now he shows something new to get excited about. Lately, it's been using his handle to get to the rim, not only in half court, where he uses his excellent first step to attack close-outs, but he's been pretty impressive with the ball in the open court too, getting deep with his long strides and finishing with the eurostep.

Even if you're concerned about giving him too much responsibility - and I don't think running an occasional pick and roll with him is too much responsibility - the team, and Jayson, for that matter, needs to be taking better advantage of his shooting. He's looking off too many open 3's, and there aren't enough plays being run for him. When you have a guy shooting nearly 50% from three point land, with Tatum's handle - you run that guy off screens and find him for more than 3's in transition and off drives and kicks. I would love to see him as the roll man, even, for some pick and pop. That play has been deadly for other teams with SFs who can shoot.

It's gotta be better than what the second unit offense is doing right now.
There was a play last night where he had the ball, used the screener to go to his right, then just bounced it behind his back to the open screener (Horford, typically, but I don't remember who it was last night) who had popped out for an open three. Nothing remarkable about the play itself, just that we see Kyrie or Marcus make that exact pass regularly. Marveling at his precociousness is getting old at this point, but he really does strike me as a sponge, just absorbing coaching and incorporating nuances learned from watching teammates. If he can continue to do that on a team with Kyrie, Horford, Smart and Hayward, while being coached by Brad Stevens, he's going to be a pretty special player.

Screen setting is the one area where I think he plays more like a rookie. Part of that is technique, part is physique. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him tighten the technique part up soon, and when he adds some bulk he'll become a deadly roll/pop man.
 

Imbricus

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SI just did a redraft of 2017 where they had Tatum #1. Here are the top 14 below. Jackson took a big tumble. Mitchell (to no one's surprise) a big riser. I wouldn't rank them quite this way, after Tatum and Mitchell, but it looks to be in the ballpark:

1. Tatum
2. Mitchell
3. Ball
4. Fultz
5. Isaac
6. Smith Jr.
7. Markkanen
8. Anunoby
9. Fox
10. Kuzma
11. Jackson
12. Collins
13. Monk
14. Bell
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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They haven't practiced in weeks (months?). Brad has said how excited he is for December 30, when they actually get to practice. I would expect we are going to see a few more wrinkles involving Jayson in the new year.
While you were posting this the thought occurred me that Brad could be saving some of Tatum's stuff for later in the year.

edit: Brad basically confirms that JT will be getting bigger role when they have a chance to practice. http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/12/boston_celtics_analysis_jayson.html
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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SI just did a redraft of 2017 where they had Tatum #1. Here are the top 14 below. Jackson took a big tumble. Mitchell (to no one's surprise) a big riser. I wouldn't rank them quite this way, after Tatum and Mitchell, but it looks to be in the ballpark:

1. Tatum
2. Mitchell
3. Ball
4. Fultz
5. Isaac
6. Smith Jr.
7. Markkanen
8. Anunoby
9. Fox
10. Kuzma
11. Jackson
12. Collins
13. Monk
14. Bell
I know I am a Kuzma fan/stan/whatever you kids call it these days but that seems low for him. If I can have a choice between 6'2" Dennis Smith Jr. and 6'9" Kyle Kuzma, knowing what we know now, I am taking Kuzma every time and twice on Sunday.

Bell should also be higher. I might put them at five and six respectively and I do like both DSJ and Lauri. Just not as much as those two.

That said, I agree with the order of the first four picks based on what we've seen. In a season where he was expected to get a bit of rotation burn, Tatum, along with some of the other rookies, has stepped up and played like a seasoned veteran. His moves around the basket already look like someone who has been around the NBA for a while and knows the angles. He will only get better too which is scary.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Ball v. Fultz, given the information was have at this moment, is a fascinating discussion. Bizarre start to his career aside, I'd still be inclined to take Fultz; even without a jumper he seemed to be able to penetrate and get to the paint easily, and I'm still not sure Ball will be able to consistently create his own shot.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I know I am a Kuzma fan/stan/whatever you kids call it these days but that seems low for him. If I can have a choice between 6'2" Dennis Smith Jr. and 6'9" Kyle Kuzma, knowing what we know now, I am taking Kuzma every time and twice on Sunday.

Bell should also be higher. I might put them at five and six respectively and I do like both DSJ and Lauri. Just not as much as those two.

That said, I agree with the order of the first four picks based on what we've seen. In a season where he was expected to get a bit of rotation burn, Tatum, along with some of the other rookies, has stepped up and played like a seasoned veteran. His moves around the basket already look like someone who has been around the NBA for a while and knows the angles. He will only get better too which is scary.
I think the issue with Kuzma is that he doesn't seem to play a ton of defense plus it's a question how much he is dependent on getting out in transition - and generally on Ball's passing - for his points. SSS and all but he had problems vs MEM.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Why did Ntilikina drop off the list while Fultz, Ball and Fox mostly held steady? Frank's not even 19.5 years old, and from what I've seen has been a bit better than advertised — long, great D, solid floor generalship — for a playoff bubble team. With none of Markelle's health issues or shattered psyche.

Personally, depending somewhat on my roster construction, I'd have to think long and hard about drafting any of the ball-dominant "true PGs" (Ball, Fultz, Fox, Smith, Jr., Ntilikina) before versatile, 6'-8" to 6'-10" guys like Tatum, Anunoby, Kuzma, Bell and Collins who you can pretty much plug-and-play in any system.
 
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Fishy1

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It seems like every game now he shows something new to get excited about. Lately, it's been using his handle to get to the rim, not only in half court, where he uses his excellent first step to attack close-outs, but he's been pretty impressive with the ball in the open court too, getting deep with his long strides and finishing with the eurostep.



There was a play last night where he had the ball, used the screener to go to his right, then just bounced it behind his back to the open screener (Horford, typically, but I don't remember who it was last night) who had popped out for an open three. Nothing remarkable about the play itself, just that we see Kyrie or Marcus make that exact pass regularly. Marveling at his precociousness is getting old at this point, but he really does strike me as a sponge, just absorbing coaching and incorporating nuances learned from watching teammates. If he can continue to do that on a team with Kyrie, Horford, Smart and Hayward, while being coached by Brad Stevens, he's going to be a pretty special player.

Screen setting is the one area where I think he plays more like a rookie. Part of that is technique, part is physique. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him tighten the technique part up soon, and when he adds some bulk he'll become a deadly roll/pop man.
Your point about age and size with regards to screen setting is well taken.

At the end of the day, I'm fine, obviously, with others getting to run the offense in the second unit, but Tatum should get to share some of the load.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Re Kuzma, he most definitely can create his own shot though I agree that without a PG like Ball, he is going to struggle more often than not. Aside from Tatum and Mitchell, Kuzma is one of the few rookies who has shown the ability to score when defenses are actually focused on stopping him. Memphis may have had his number but he has been consistently good offensively this season against a variety of quality opponents.
 

nighthob

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Even if you're concerned about giving him too much responsibility - and I don't think running an occasional pick and roll with him is too much responsibility - the team, and Jayson, for that matter, needs to be taking better advantage of his shooting. He's looking off too many open 3's, and there aren't enough plays being run for him. When you have a guy shooting nearly 50% from three point land, with Tatum's handle - you run that guy off screens and find him for more than 3's in transition and off drives and kicks. I would love to see him as the roll man, even, for some pick and pop. That play has been deadly for other teams with SFs who can shoot.
I think people are forgetting that the Celtics’ season changed drastically when it was five minutes old. Boston never intended Tatum to be playing this much this soon, Hayward’s injury changed everything and the coaching staff hasn’t really had the chance to work extensively with Tatum yet.

That’s the big change that’s about to happen, once they’re done with the London game they have one of the lightest schedules in the NBA, and they’re going to have the chance to run a lot of plays for Tatum in practice. He’s going to be a second half monster.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I think people are forgetting that the Celtics’ season changed drastically when it was five minutes old. Boston never intended Tatum to be playing this much this soon, Hayward’s injury changed everything and the coaching staff hasn’t really had the chance to work extensively with Tatum yet.

That’s the big change that’s about to happen, once they’re done with the London game they have one of the lightest schedules in the NBA, and they’re going to have the chance to run a lot of plays for Tatum in practice. He’s going to be a second half monster.
Hopefully he doesn't hit the rookie wall too hard and the light second half schedule helps him because he's going to be playing a lot of minutes in the playoffs......unless.....
 

chilidawg

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I think people are forgetting that the Celtics’ season changed drastically when it was five minutes old. Boston never intended Tatum to be playing this much this soon, Hayward’s injury changed everything and the coaching staff hasn’t really had the chance to work extensively with Tatum yet.

That’s the big change that’s about to happen, once they’re done with the London game they have one of the lightest schedules in the NBA, and they’re going to have the chance to run a lot of plays for Tatum in practice. He’s going to be a second half monster.
They thought enough of him to put him in the starting lineup opening night. Would he be getting 30 minutes a night, maybe not, but I'd guess he'd be in the 25-28 range regardless of injury.
 

nighthob

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They thought enough of him to put him in the starting lineup opening night. Would he be getting 30 minutes a night, maybe not, but I'd guess he'd be in the 25-28 range regardless of injury.
Yes, but he wasn’t there because they had plans to play him 30 m/g out of the door, he was starting because Morris was still rehabbing from injury. They really didn’t enter the season anticipating him having this sort of role.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Low key great game from Tatum tonight.

His shot wasn't falling (0-3 from 3 and 3-8 from the field at one point), but he made himself a fixture at the free throw line (9-11) and ended the game with 19 points on 5-11 shooting from the field. Also 5 rebounds, 2 steals, a block, and an assist.

In the waning minutes of the game he stepped up on defense, big time. When the Celtics needed to have stops he came up with a steal and then a block on a Harden iso.
 

JakeRae

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Tatum has the 6th most WS for a 19 year old (or younger) ever. The 5 players ahead of him are Melo, Kobe, Bosh, Lebron, and Howard (not ordered). He will easily pass all of them barring injury.
 

lovegtm

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Low key great game from Tatum tonight.

His shot wasn't falling (0-3 from 3 and 3-8 from the field at one point), but he made himself a fixture at the free throw line (9-11) and ended the game with 19 points on 5-11 shooting from the field. Also 5 rebounds, 2 steals, a block, and an assist.

In the waning minutes of the game he stepped up on defense, big time. When the Celtics needed to have stops he came up with a steal and then a block on a Harden iso.
Also played 40 minutes on the 2nd night of a back-to-back, most on the team, and needed with Brown out on the wing.
 

Ed Hillel

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He doesn’t have his height (though he might grow another inch or two if lucky), but the guy he reminds me of is Kevin Durant. Pretty good for a 19 year old.
 

Ed Hillel

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He is more like Pierce with a more polished game and a bit less swagger.
He plays with more length than Pierce and runs the fast break more like Durant. Though he has plenty of power, I think he’s more graceful than Pierce was when he takes a defender to the rim. I dunno, I see Durant.

Nothing wrong with either, of course.
 

nighthob

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He has a lot of Pierce’s moves down pat, but his drive game reminds me of George Gervin.
 

luckiestman

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He has a lot of Pierce’s moves down pat, but his drive game reminds me of George Gervin.

That's who he reminds me of on the court but I have only seen highlights of Gervin so don't know if I really know his game.
 

DannyDarwinism

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In addition to everything else he's shown so far, it's clear that he loves the big moments. Nice to see him play with some anger tonight too. He's gonna add some strength and explosion in the off-season, refine his game even more, and I think he'll be playing at an all-star level at age 20.
 

NoXInNixon

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Odds that at some point in his career he will record a quadruple double? I say +200.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yup. I think I’m under 10 now.
My list is probably Greek Freak and Durant, and that’s it. Simmons is a tough call, too. Porzingis is too fragile (and Embiid), LeBron too old. Am I forgetting anyone obvious?

Edit - Davis is a tough call, but the knee injuries are a concern.
 
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Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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My list is probably Greek Freak and Durant, and that’s it. Simmons is a tough call, too. Porzingis is too fragile (and Embiid), LeBron too old. Am I forgetting anyone obvious?

Edit - Davis is a tough call, but the knee injuries are a concern.
Not Simmons for me, and that's taking nothing away from Simmons.
 

the moops

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My list is probably Greek Freak and Durant, and that’s it. Simmons is a tough call, too. Porzingis is too fragile (and Embiid), LeBron too old. Am I forgetting anyone obvious?

Edit - Davis is a tough call, but the knee injuries are a concern.
I get that he is very young, and doing some amazing things, but really? I think you are leaving way way too many players off this list. Yes, some of them are old(er), but not sure how you dont trade him for someone like Lebron, or Curry, etc.

I'm still trading him easily for Lebron, Kawhi, Curry, Durant, Giannis, Harden, Davis, Westbrook. Then you got other young guys who I most likely would in Porzingis, Embiid, Towns, Jokic, Simmons. And I am sure some others I am forgetting
 

Smokey Joe

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I get that he is very young, and doing some amazing things, but really? I think you are leaving way way too many players off this list. Yes, some of them are old(er), but not sure how you dont trade him for someone like Lebron, or Curry, etc.

I'm still trading him easily for Lebron, Kawhi, Curry, Durant, Giannis, Harden, Davis, Westbrook. Then you got other young guys who I most likely would in Porzingis, Embiid, Towns, Jokic, Simmons. And I am sure some others I am forgetting
Lebron too old, Kawhi yes, curry too old and fragile, Durant yes, Giannis yes, Harden definitely not, can't defend, Davis maybe, Westbrook definitely not, doesn't play well with others.
 

Bleedred

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I get that he is very young, and doing some amazing things, but really? I think you are leaving way way too many players off this list. Yes, some of them are old(er), but not sure how you dont trade him for someone like Lebron, or Curry, etc.

I'm still trading him easily for Lebron, Kawhi, Curry, Durant, Giannis, Harden, Davis, Westbrook. Then you got other young guys who I most likely would in Porzingis, Embiid, Towns, Jokic, Simmons. And I am sure some others I am forgetting
Klay Thompson is on that list too
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I would trade Tatum for Steph Curry in an
Curry and Durant were born in the same year
Yeah I would pretty much trade any Celtic for Curry. He has been incredibly durable over the last few years and while he had injuries this season, the Warriors/Kerr have also very cautious with him.

Unlike Bleedred, I would not trade Tatum for Klay Thompson and I like Klay. I think Tatum's ceiling is higher than Thompson's current level.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yeah I would pretty much trade any Celtic for Curry. He has been incredibly durable over the last few years and while he had injuries this season, the Warriors/Kerr have also very cautious with him.
Curry also got hurt in the playoffs two years ago, which cost them the title.

Everyone gets injured and it would be foolish not to expect Tatum goes down at some point, but Tatum has ten extra years and I don’t think the current talent gap is enough to make up for that. Leonard is a maybe, and honestly I forgot him, but the quad injury seems kinda scary. Pop’s comments haven’t made things seem much better.