I'd think Denver would want to keep Harris though. Maybe flip Murray. I dunno. I don't buy this unless it's PG to Denver. Kevin Love doesn't make sense.
Paul George to OKC
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Love makes sense there, doesn't he? Under team control, good contract, and has carried an NBA offense.
Yeah, it'll be rough. But it's not like he'd be replacing the minutes of great defenders, and his scoring will still likely make it a bet positive for them.
Jokic and Murray are rumored to be off limits. And I doubt if the Pacers are interested in players like Faried or Chandler.
Denver will be way under the cap as of 7/1 so the Nuggets could gobble up Love without sending salary back, and Denver has all of its first rounders. Would an umprotected 2018 first round pick, Tyler Lydon and a huge trade exception be enough for the Pacers?
Denver will be way under the cap as of 7/1 so the Nuggets could gobble up Love without sending salary back, and Denver has all of its first rounders. Would an umprotected 2018 first round pick, Tyler Lydon and a huge trade exception be enough for the Pacers?
Ainge would be able to top that easily and with Leaf already in the fold, I can't imagine Indiana would be too interested in Lydon.
Jokic is definitely off limits. Plus they traded for Plumlee last year and he is pretty good defensively and a pretty good passer.
If Murray and Harris are too, that leaves Hernangomez who is pretty enticing, draft picks, Mudiay, and Beasley.
If Murray and Harris are too, that leaves Hernangomez who is pretty enticing, draft picks, Mudiay, and Beasley.
It does seem like Boston can beat that. So, what're they thinking? Indiana may think dealing him to Boston means there's a chance he stays here and they have to see him in conference for next 4-5 years. Since there's that whole "Lebron and PG to LA thing", maybe they feel that PG to CLE and eventually in the Western Conference is better for them.
Who knows?
Who knows?
huge trade exception would be worthless to the Pacers, they'll be way under the cap if they dumped off George for no salary and are rebuilding.
I don't see how Denver pulls this off if Jokic/Murray are off the table. Would Indiana take Gary Harris and Juan Hernangomez? Even with a future first or two, that seems light and I don't think Denver and Cleveland have much more to give.
The rumors we've heard have been pretty light though. Wasn't it 28+29 and Randle? I think Harris and Hernangomez beats that package. If Harris is in play, Jaylen Brown or some of the Celtics good picks have to be as well.
Would someone who has knowledge of the new CBA explain how an extension for George would work? I've read the following but looking for confirmation:
1. Can add up to 4 years onto the last year of an existing deal.
2. Extensions can start at 120% of the final year of the previous deal.
In George's case, he'll make $19.3MM next year. Does the player option factor into the extension? In other words, would it be a 3+2 extension or could he decline the option for a 1+4 option. Also, can they give him a raise if they're over the cap? Would the 120% be based on the $19.3MM, $20.5MM player option for 18/19, or a theoretical raise?
1. Can add up to 4 years onto the last year of an existing deal.
2. Extensions can start at 120% of the final year of the previous deal.
In George's case, he'll make $19.3MM next year. Does the player option factor into the extension? In other words, would it be a 3+2 extension or could he decline the option for a 1+4 option. Also, can they give him a raise if they're over the cap? Would the 120% be based on the $19.3MM, $20.5MM player option for 18/19, or a theoretical raise?
My understanding from the Dunc'd on podcast is no. Again, assuming I understood properly (and they were correct
in order to extend PG we would need to have the actual cap space this year so getting him to sign the extension would be essentially impossible.Also, To qualify as a Bird free agent, a player must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent.
This could be wrong but I think the concept is that Cs would renegotiate PG's contract this year and then extend him off that raise. The raise would require cap room however - that's why it's so tricky.
So, I could be wrong, but I think the problem with extending PG is that 120% thing-- i.e., it'd be based on his current 19.5m salary, which puts him still well below max. So, they either have to renegotiate his current deal (i.e., tear up the last year and raise his salary), which requires having a lot more cap space available, since I think that essentially treats him like a FA for cap purposes, or they have to wait until he hits FA, at which point they're competing against everyone. So it's not that they can't do it, it's that if they want to do it right away (when they don't have any competition), they need to open a lot of extra cap space. Which is way max (e.g., Hayward) + PG with a renegotiate+extend is almost impossible-- the C's just can't open that much cap space without completely gutting the rest of their roster.
I apologize, because I was the first to bring that up. However, in most trades, his full Bird rights are traded with him. There are some trades where this doesn't happen, but I don't feel like digging through the minutiae of the CBA to tell you what they are. Suffice to say that the Celtics capologist will know, however, and make sure that if they trade for George and he wants an extension, they can give it to him.
What that means for extending him right now, I know less about.
What that means for extending him right now, I know less about.
I feel that Boston is thinking/knowing that the only way they make a deal is to have George agree to an extension and take less money overall if to treat him like we did KG 10 years ago after he refused to come to Boston and pitch Hayward to sign as a FA for them to be here together. My belief is that the only way to convince George is by signing Hayward (and the only way to signing Hayward is to dangle playing with George in front of him as the carrot). It was easier then due to Allen not being a FA who wanted to get out of Seattle anyway as you'd have to convince Hayward and George to do this together but this is the ONLY way I expect to see one of them in Boston this summer......it's either both or neither imo.
My read on this situation is that with so many other contracts would have to be moved/not extended it gives me grave concern on the condition of Isaiah's hip in that Ainge knows he either isn't going to be extending him or that Isaiah may be finished as the Isaiah that we know (which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if his skillset is now that of a 2nd unit scorer and HE recognizes this). Last week Brad said that Isaiah hasn't been on his feet or doing anything physically until his next hip appointment in two weeks when the next course of action will be decided.
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What about this scenario: George agrees to a three-year extension before the trade. Indiana will have plenty of cap room to give him a raise to 30% of the cap ($29.9M or thereabouts). Indiana then trades him to Boston. Could this be done?
Obviously the Celtics would still have to gut their roster, because it means that much more salary to match. For starters, Boston would have to sign Tatum to his rookie deal and include him as part of the package (unless the Celtics wanted to trade IT instead of Tatum).
Obviously the Celtics would still have to gut their roster, because it means that much more salary to match. For starters, Boston would have to sign Tatum to his rookie deal and include him as part of the package (unless the Celtics wanted to trade IT instead of Tatum).
In this scenario, I believe you could only do this before signing Hayward. Post-Hayward signing, either you'd have to trade Horford or something like Bradley/Smart/IT/Crowder in order to take on that salary.
No there wouldn't. You'd essentially be picking George over Hayward. After looking at the numbers, I think you have to get PG without an extension as the depth around the starting 5 would be dicey. You'd have to rely on vet minimum guys.
It's pretty clear that Ainge isn't interested in any scenario that involves gutting the roster unnecessarily. He's waiting for free agency. He explicitly mentioned needing things to happen in a certain order to work the way they want it.
He mentioned that and Mike Zarren tweeted his frustrations about having the draft before free agency. Clearly, there is a plan in place and they are waiting for Saturday to try to execute it. I'm not getting my hopes up about getting both guys as a lot of dominos have to fall our way but if Danny pulls this off all of the posturing and the patience will have paid off.
Joe FortenbaughVerified account @JoeFortenbaugh
Per @KAzubuike7, Paul George has reached out to Klay Thompson about playing together once Klay hits free agency (2019).
It's so weird to me that these guys scheme so far in advance to play together. So much changes in 2 years.
Per @KAzubuike7, Paul George has reached out to Klay Thompson about playing together once Klay hits free agency (2019).
It's so weird to me that these guys scheme so far in advance to play together. So much changes in 2 years.
Or maybe with the new cap even lower Golden State feels the payroll squeeze and elects to deal Klay this summer instead, and we end up with the George/Thompson Celtics.
Sources on @TheVertical: Boston working to sequence the acquisitions of Gordon Hayward and Paul George.
Woj bomb
"The Boston Celtics are pursuing an aggressive summer plan of sequencing the signing of free agent Gordon Hayward and relinquishing the assets needed to complete a trade for Paul George, league sources told The Vertical.
For salary-cap purposes, Boston wants a Hayward commitment before it can finalize a trade for George and secure the most dynamic free-agent coup in franchise history, league sources said.
For Boston, here’s the hitch: While Indiana believes Boston can offer the best possible package, the Pacers may be unwilling to wait until the start of July free agency on Boston’s timetable and could turn toward making a deal elsewhere for George, league sources told The Vertical.
Boston has maneuvering to do with its roster, including the shedding of salaries to create space to position itself for this scenario. Boston has contingencies in place to make deals and start a possible Hayward-George scenario toward fruition, league sources told The Vertical."
"If Boston can’t acquire Hayward, Los Angeles Clippers forward Blake Griffin could be a substitute in this free-agency plan to sign a star and then trade for George, league sources told The Vertical."
"Utah is fighting to hold onto Hayward in free agency, but is exploring multiple scenarios to reshape the roster should the All-Star forward leave the franchise. The Jazz are working to upgrade the roster, including point guard, before July 1 when Hayward will start taking meetings with Boston and Miami in free agency, league sources said.
"Indiana has been focused on trying to complete a deal with Boston for George, league sources told The Vertical. The sides were growing close to a deal on draft night, but a third-team scenario fell through late in the evening that stalled talks. Indiana is desirous of the young players and future draft picks that Boston is uniquely able to offer the Pacers for George."
The Celtics have a growing confidence they could sign George to a contract extension, and keep him from leaving to his predetermined free-agent destination of the Los Angeles Lakers, league sources told The Vertical. Boston’s belief that it can make George more than a one-year rental is fueling the franchise’s willingness to part with a significant package of assets, league sources said.
Indiana could potentially allow George and his representation to speak to potential suitors about a contract extension should a trade happen, but that permission hasn’t been granted yet, league sources told The Vertical."
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-celtics-working-land-gordon-hayward-paul-george-181020436.html
Zach Lowe on follow up to Woj's story:
Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA
35s
Yup. And they have methods of pulling it off even if they can't order/time the transactions in an optimal fashion. It's possible.
"The Boston Celtics are pursuing an aggressive summer plan of sequencing the signing of free agent Gordon Hayward and relinquishing the assets needed to complete a trade for Paul George, league sources told The Vertical.
For salary-cap purposes, Boston wants a Hayward commitment before it can finalize a trade for George and secure the most dynamic free-agent coup in franchise history, league sources said.
For Boston, here’s the hitch: While Indiana believes Boston can offer the best possible package, the Pacers may be unwilling to wait until the start of July free agency on Boston’s timetable and could turn toward making a deal elsewhere for George, league sources told The Vertical.
Boston has maneuvering to do with its roster, including the shedding of salaries to create space to position itself for this scenario. Boston has contingencies in place to make deals and start a possible Hayward-George scenario toward fruition, league sources told The Vertical."
"If Boston can’t acquire Hayward, Los Angeles Clippers forward Blake Griffin could be a substitute in this free-agency plan to sign a star and then trade for George, league sources told The Vertical."
"Utah is fighting to hold onto Hayward in free agency, but is exploring multiple scenarios to reshape the roster should the All-Star forward leave the franchise. The Jazz are working to upgrade the roster, including point guard, before July 1 when Hayward will start taking meetings with Boston and Miami in free agency, league sources said.
"Indiana has been focused on trying to complete a deal with Boston for George, league sources told The Vertical. The sides were growing close to a deal on draft night, but a third-team scenario fell through late in the evening that stalled talks. Indiana is desirous of the young players and future draft picks that Boston is uniquely able to offer the Pacers for George."
The Celtics have a growing confidence they could sign George to a contract extension, and keep him from leaving to his predetermined free-agent destination of the Los Angeles Lakers, league sources told The Vertical. Boston’s belief that it can make George more than a one-year rental is fueling the franchise’s willingness to part with a significant package of assets, league sources said.
Indiana could potentially allow George and his representation to speak to potential suitors about a contract extension should a trade happen, but that permission hasn’t been granted yet, league sources told The Vertical."
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-celtics-working-land-gordon-hayward-paul-george-181020436.html
Zach Lowe on follow up to Woj's story:
Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA
35s
Yup. And they have methods of pulling it off even if they can't order/time the transactions in an optimal fashion. It's possible.
John Wall is advocating for the Wizards to go after George as well. If the Pacers have interest in Otto Porter I could see a sign and trade scenario, but otherwise they don't have much of interest. In any case, I think the longer that Indiana holds outs the bigger package they'll get.
I'm sorry. People on the internet have told me it's not possible to do this.
Who's right?
Renegotiate & extend is hard to do, but Boston might feel comfortable trading for George anyway. Trading for George is easy, extending him is a little harder.
I would think so, Indiana might see the trade as the best way to guarantee the value of the pick by ensuring that the Lakers suck next year. And Pritchard might take extra satisfaction from making that deal after LA tried to strong arm him into taking a shit sandwich for George.
If it helps keep as many young/essential players out of the deal as possible, absolutely. It's also the highest upside asset that probably anyone in on George can offer in terms of potential ceiling and maximum years of cheap control.
Prayers up for Jae, Avery, Memphis, and two Celtics first rounders bc we'd be making this trade without any long term commitment in hand. Losing Doncic, Ayton etc for a one year rental would sting...
Jimmy Stewart on 98.5 mentioned Bradley/Crowder/Smart/Philly and Memphis picks for George with an extension in place. Take it with a grain of salt but he does have a pretty good source within the Celtics organization.
Reading is Fundamental ... what part of "an extended George" do you not understand?
Yes, but IND has nothing to do with that extension (well, sort of nothing).