Celtics Trade Deadline Game Thread

bankshot1

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I'm out of market, and do not follow the Cs as close as most of you, but I see a pretty good team right now, with the chance at adding two more elite college guys and/or a possible FA or two and am pretty excited about the future with Ainge and Stevens.

I'm not at all disappointed they did not get screwed swapping (Smart, Bradley, Brown + lottery picks) for Butler or George and the chance to lose in the ECF. I think this team with some luck can do that as they are right now.
 

cheech13

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Barring something unforeseen the Celtics will have a top four pick this summer. Here are guys that were taken in the top four in the past five drafts:

Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Bradley Beal
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett
Victor Oladipo
Otto Porter
Cody Zeller
Andrew Wiggins
Jabari Parker
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Karl-Anthony Towns
D'Angelo Russell
Jahlil Okafor
Kristaps Porzingis
Ben Simmons
Brandon Ingram
Jaylen Brown
Dragan Bender

How many of those guys would absolutely take over Jimmy Butler or Paul George? Three? Four?
 
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PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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I really wished Danny improved the roster spots currently held by Zeller, Young, Green and Mickey.

What use are all those 2nd round picks? Aren't those supposed to be used for small deals, incremental improvements?
This team has around 13 picks over the next 4 years according to some quick googling. At some point is holding on to these picks more of a burden as you can only stash so many of them?
 

Van Everyman

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Barring something unforeseen the Celtics will have a top four pick this summer. Here are guys that were taken in the top four in the past five drafts:

Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Bradley Beal
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett
Victor Oladipo
Otto Porter
Cody Zeller
Andrew Wiggins
Jabari Parker
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Karl-Anthony Towns
D'Angelo Russell
Jahlil Okafor
Kristaps Porzingis
Ben Simmons
Brandon Ingram
Jaylen Brown
Dragan Bender

How many of those guys would definitely take over Jimmy Butler or Paul George? Three? Four?
This would be a great point ... were we able to get Butler or George for the pick alone. Which we weren't.
 

Cellar-Door

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Barring something unforeseen the Celtics will have a top four pick this summer. Here are guys that were taken in the top four in the past five drafts:

Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Bradley Beal
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett
Victor Oladipo
Otto Porter
Cody Zeller
Andrew Wiggins
Jabari Parker
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Karl-Anthony Towns
D'Angelo Russell
Jahlil Okafor
Kristaps Porzingis
Ben Simmons
Brandon Ingram
Jaylen Brown
Dragan Bender

How many of those guys would definitely take over Jimmy Butler or Paul George? Three? Four?
Counting that I get the full years of control? Probably at least 5 I could talk myself into 4 or 5 more.
 

ifmanis5

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Barring something unforeseen the Celtics will have a top four pick this summer. Here are guys that were taken in the top four in the past five drafts:

Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Bradley Beal
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett
Victor Oladipo
Otto Porter
Cody Zeller
Andrew Wiggins
Jabari Parker
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Karl-Anthony Towns
D'Angelo Russell
Jahlil Okafor
Kristaps Porzingis
Ben Simmons
Brandon Ingram
Jaylen Brown
Dragan Bender

How many of those guys would definitely take over Jimmy Butler or Paul George? Three? Four?
Some very weak drafts compared to this one. Like, not even comparable.
Also, hard to judge how Russell, Simmons, Brown and a few others end up.
At a bare minimum I count Davis, Embiid, Towns and Porzingis as no-brainers above them with about 3 more that are probably close.
 

RetractableRoof

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This isn't close to being accurate. Butler and George were both very good players by year 2. Jaylen is a promising rookie, but is still nowhere near that level. You can pick whatever metric you want - it's not close.
In fairness, PG got 20.1 Minutes per game his rookie year, on a 37-45 win team. Either he was on a bad team that could give him developmental minutes, or he was THAT good that he took the minutes, but couldn't get his team over the hump to being a winning one. The Celtics were in a different position for Jaylen's rookie year which affected his developmental minutes. I think they showed patience with him while being also producing a winning [but not Championship Caliber(TM)] team. I'm not sure that expecting Jaylen Brown to play PG's minutes on a winning team or conversely develop at the same rate while actually earning his minutes on a winning team is fair to the comparison.

Not in any way downing PG here, just saying it isn't really an apples to apples comparison when trying to use metrics. (Yeah, yeah, I know...)
 

moly99

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I'm advocating not overvaluing the picks. If you can turn the picks into Top 15 talents, you do it.
Yes and no.

The average win shares from the first five seasons of an average 3rd pick is about 25. Paul George's win shares over the last five years (prorating his stats this year for a full season) are 36.4 even with that lost year with a broken leg. So if George stays healthy and on the Celtics for five years he should be better than the average third pick in the draft.

But . . .

1) The Celtics would not be trading for George for five years. They only get him for the remainder of his contract, at which point he can go to LA if that is his heart's desire. Meanwhile they should be able to hold on to the players from the draft for a long, long time.
2) The Celtics could win the lottery and get the first pick in the draft, which should be roughly as good as George anyway.
3) Salaries matter. Even if the Celtics convince George to re-sign they would have to pay him.
4) Apparently the C's would have to give up a fuck ton more than one Brooklyn pick to get either Butler or George.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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This team has around 13 picks over the next 4 years according to some quick googling. At some point is holding on to these picks more of a burden as you can only stash so many of them?
Roster size is growing with the new CBA, and I believe two-way contracts will be introduced. The league is close to a full 1:1 relation to the NBDL to make it a real minor league. It isn't optimal to make all these picks but we're headed toward a place where you'll be able to stash more guys under full organizational supervision.
 

Marbleheader

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You have to draft a franchise player. There are very few exceptions in the history of the NBA. Unless you draft a franchise player first, you are screwed.

Magic, BIrd, Isiah, Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Wade, Pierce, Dirk, Curry, LeBron. That's basically my lifetimes worth of NBA champions.

Ainge isn't bucking that history with IT4 and Horford. Keep drafting, hope to hit on one.
 

smastroyin

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I don't think Danny wants to stash all those guys, more he would probably like to continue pushing things out.

As for the bulk of discussion here, I think there is an interesting philosophical discussion, but once we start nitpicking details it's really kind of pointless because we don't know the actual costs. This allows strawmen to be easily built, and goalposts to be moved, and other cliches of message boarding.

Danny is clearly trying to do a hybrid build that is afforded him by the Nets picks. I don't think he is dumb, he could have followed the Hinkie path just as easily as the Sixers if he just wanted to build through the draft. He's clearly out there looking for the right deal. We can perhaps speculate that he is overvaluing his own assets, but we don't really know.

I honestly feel there is a lot of resentment for the C's not being interested in Boogie, as opposed to what happened today. (I know that in terms of his abilities and play style I would have really liked him here, more than any of the wings) And we'll also never really know why that is.
 

joe dokes

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I really wished Danny improved the roster spots currently held by Zeller, Young, Green and Mickey.

What use are all those 2nd round picks? Aren't those supposed to be used for small deals, incremental improvements?
I dont think too many teams make trades to improve the 12-15 spots on the roster. You draft a bunch of guys in the 2nd round and see if any bust through to top 8.
 

ifmanis5

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This would be a great point ... were we able to get Butler or George for the pick alone. Which we weren't.
Very good point.
Plugging in a young player may take two or three years to get up to speed but it's at no additional cost to the roster and at an advantageous salary structure both short and long term.
Boogie was the only talent out there worth the picks but the poison pill of his attitude was too much of a red flag.
 

heavyde050

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I'm referring to year 2. He played 82 games, shot 38% from three, and was one of the better perimeter defenders in the league. That's a very good player. Scoring is nice, but it's just one part of the game.
I posted a link to his stats. He was a decent player in Year 2 but he was also 23.
In addition to the shooting % you mentioned he also had 4 rebounds a game and 1.4 assists.
I realize that there is more to basketball than scoring. I am just saying he wasn't All-Star Jimmy Butler by year 2. He didn't make an All-Star team until Year 4.
For reference purposes he was equivalent to 2nd Year Avery Bradley. And to be fair to Avery, he was two years younger.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bradlav01.html
 

Eddie Jurak

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Barring something unforeseen the Celtics will have a top four pick this summer. Here are guys that were taken in the top four in the past five drafts:

Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Bradley Beal
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett
Victor Oladipo
Otto Porter
Cody Zeller
Andrew Wiggins
Jabari Parker
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Karl-Anthony Towns
D'Angelo Russell
Jahlil Okafor
Kristaps Porzingis
Ben Simmons
Brandon Ingram
Jaylen Brown
Dragan Bender

How many of those guys would absolutely take over Jimmy Butler or Paul George? Three? Four?
Well, this is why Danny Ainge (reportedly) had the Nets picks on the table. That he would have needed to include a lot more value beyond the pick(s) is why there was no deal.

Also, Danny probably has some idea how the top 4 of this class compares to prior years and that has to factor into the thinking as well.
 

joe dokes

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Danny is clearly trying to do a hybrid build that is afforded him by the Nets picks. I don't think he is dumb, he could have followed the Hinkie path just as easily as the Sixers if he just wanted to build through the draft. He's clearly out there looking for the right deal. We can perhaps speculate that he is overvaluing his own assets, but we don't really know.
.
Meanwhile, the team is on its way to significantly improving for the 4th straight year. Ainge gets surprisingly little "I think he knows what he's doing" slack.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Someone upthread mentioned that Woj said both picks were on the table. Anyone else hear or see that? In what context? "You can have both." or "You can have one of the two."

I pretty much consider Jaylen to be of equal value to those picks, he was the third pick, each of those picks may be the third pick as well.

If the Pacers wanted three contributors to the Cs plus the pick I believe that may have been more detrimental to the team than adding a superstar in PG13.

Losing Jae, Smart, and Bradley would hurt far more than adding Paul George in my opinion. Superstars win championships, this is true, but it may not always stay true. And maybe it will be a team built and developed as the Cs are in an recently unprecedented fashion. A team like the pacers with one superstar and a bunch of role players would never win a title. Would PG, Horford, and Isaiah? I think they would have a similar shot to today's Pacers considering the competition.

Danny seems to love the main players, and most of us fans do too, of the team and will either trade the picks when the time comes or be happy to build with them. Not on one side of the aisle like most of us seem to be on.
 

Big John

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If you have to give up too much to get Butler or George you could wind up being like the Clippers: three stars but absolutely no depth. Glue guys like Crowder who vastly outperform their contracts are critical if you want to win championships. LeBron, great as he is, doesn't win squat without a decent supporting cast that goes at least 8 deep. The Cavs are in luxury tax hell because they have overpaid players like Tristan Thompson for exactly that reason.

Yes, trading for the established player is the conventional wisdom. But it's time to gamble. No more "safe" plays like Olynyk over Antetokounmpo.
 

biff_hardbody

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There are many ways to win a championship and just because it has worked for some teams doesn't mean it will for Boston. Paul George or to a lesser extent Jimmy Butler could make them good enough to beat the Cavs and Warriors. George is a 6'11" guy who can hit 3s. Maybe his defense can improve. In the end, maybe George, who I especially think could be that good, makes the leap with a good team and coaching around him. Guys aren't top 15 players until they are and then they are unavailable but these are not NBA 2K17 players and there are no foregone conclusions.

I'm happy they didn't trade their assets because the BK17 and BK18 picks will make for exciting team building, probably through 2026, if they have any luck, and it seemed the prices were a bit much such that I didn't want them to give up more than 1 of BK17, BK18, or Brown. Brown already looks like he'll be fun to watch.
 

bowiac

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I posted a link to his stats. He was a decent player in Year 2 but he was also 23.
In addition to the shooting % you mentioned he also had 4 rebounds a game and 1.4 assists.
I realize that there is more to basketball than scoring. I am just saying he wasn't All-Star Jimmy Butler by year 2. He didn't make an All-Star team until Year 4.
For reference purposes he was equivalent to 2nd Year Avery Bradley. And to be fair to Avery, he was two years younger.
Suffice to say we have a very different read about how good Butler was in year two. I care a lot less about "popcorn stats" like points and rebounds, and a lot more about the per possession and advanced stats you'll find here. Your mileage may vary. Butler in year 2 isn't really that salient.
 

heavyde050

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Suffice to say we have a very different read about how good Butler was in year two. I care a lot less about "popcorn stats" like points and rebounds, and a lot more about the per possession and advanced stats you'll find here. Your mileage may vary. Butler in year 2 isn't really that salient.
You are correct that I am probably relying too much on just the basic counting stats.
Either way it is a moot point because even if the Celts do trade for Butler, it won't be for Year 2 Butler.
And by the way I do think Butler is a legit star now and worthy of some level of trade package.
My entire read on the current Celtics team is that it needs rebounding in the worst way.
I don't need any type of stat or metric to remember what happens in Game 7 of 2010 when the Lakers got 23 offensive rebounds.
Also thanks for the link to the other stat site, it was much appreciated.
 

biff_hardbody

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Suffice to say we have a very different read about how good Butler was in year two. I care a lot less about "popcorn stats" like points and rebounds, and a lot more about the per possession and advanced stats you'll find here. Your mileage may vary. Butler in year 2 isn't really that salient.
Trying to understand these numbers: Basically the difference between Jaylen Brown this year and Jimmy Butler years 1-3 is that Brown's FT% is significantly worse and Brown is 2 years younger than Butler's 1st year?

Also isn't using Butler's year 2 numbers a bit misleading since he shot significantly worse in years 1 and 3 until slowly getting better but never as good as his year 2 numbers?
 

DJnVa

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Suffice to say we have a very different read about how good Butler was in year two. I care a lot less about "popcorn stats" like points and rebounds, and a lot more about the per possession and advanced stats you'll find here. Your mileage may vary. Butler in year 2 isn't really that salient.
I think some folks are conceding that, but are also simply noting that in year 2 Brown will be 21 years old, whereas Butler was 23.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Its essentially irrelevant at this point but I want to address the idea that you need a top X player to win a championship. While having one of the best players in the league surrounded by other talent has been a recipe for success, there are teams that have proven exception to the rule.

Most recently, it was the San Antonio Spurs in 2013-14. There is no doubt that this squad was incredibly talented across their roster and had the best NBA coach of the modern era. However its worth noting thatnot one of their players was in the top twenty in the following categories: offensive rating, offensive win shares, or win shares overall. Nobody on their roster was top 10 in the following categories: WS/48, offensive BPM and VORP (as a side note, Duncan, Leonard and Green were all top defensive players). Duncan was already in decline while Leonard was in ascension. But neither was at a point where you would refer to them as, say, a top five player and maybe even arguably a top ten player that season - at least not statistically.

Next, I would argue the 2010-2011 Dallas Mavericks. Now this isn't to say Dirk Nowitzki of that season wasn't a very good player - he was. However he was already clearly in decline. If you look at metrics like BPM for the season, Dirk was 14th. If you prefer W/S, Dirk was 10th. VORP had Dirk at 18th. In fact, the only two stats where he was in the top ten was OWS where he was ninth and WS/48 where he was seventh. Instead that squad was a deep, well coached team that caught a break in facing the best player in the world with two sidekicks and not much else.

Before that I would cite the 2003-04 Detroit Pistons. Billups was very good offensively and Ben Wallace was the most dominant defensive big in the game. But that team did not have anywhere near a top five and arguably even a top ten overall talent on its roster.

The point is, the path to a ring isn't to have one of the top players in the world though that clearly helps. All of these teams were incredibly deep, had certain players with very elite skill sets, were all well coached and caught some breaks. In the case of the first three categories, I would argue that this year's Celtics are very similar - as to the latter category, while you cannot plan on catching breaks, its good to be prepared to take advantage. It would have been nice to see what the C's could have done with a George or Butler provided the cost wasn't gutting their current depth.
 

moly99

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While I understand the point, can't it just as easily be argued that the San Antonio and Dallas models argue in favor of keeping the Brooklyn picks to draft our own Duncan or Nowitzki?
 

nighthob

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This isn't close to being accurate. Butler and George were both very good players by year 2. Jaylen is a promising rookie, but is still nowhere near that level. You can pick whatever metric you want - it's not close.
Their /100s actually are pretty similar. Eerily so between Brown and Butler. George was a little better than both. Both Butler and George were more efficient, of course, but they were also older. Three years older in Butler's case. I suppose I could compare their age 20 /36 numbers, but it really isn't fair to compare college guys' /36s with NBA players.

So, yes, despite my rather public fears this time last year that Brown was a bust waiting to happen, I was wrong. He's a heck of a lot better than I was anticipating, but part of that might just be that he landed on a winning team that is expecting nothing of him and Brown's in the right spot to grow his game.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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While I understand the point, can't it just as easily be argued that the San Antonio and Dallas models argue in favor of keeping the Brooklyn picks to draft our own Duncan or Nowitzki?
The point is that all three teams cited were deep and well coached like this year's Celtics. However either had one or two near-elite players in the form of Dirk in the case of the Mavs or Duncan/Leonard in the case of the Spurs. There are those who argued that a George or Butler wouldn't have helped the C's get over the hump this year because they aren't top X players. I am suggesting that they might have because they are near-elite and would have combined with Thomas, who, at the very least, is an elite offensive player.

As for drafting, we have covered it time and again. Ainge's draft record, like many or most of his peers, is mixed. Getting the next Duncan or Dirk is as much luck as anything else. While its nice to have the picks, you need a lot to go right with the players selected and other roster moves to get a core that can compete for a championship.
 

Devizier

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I also have no fucking idea why people are arguing that Butler and George are not elite players. You hope you get players like that, even with a top three pick. The issue wasn't that the Celtics were trading the picks for those guys, but that their respective teams were asking for a bunch of rotation players too. That's how you end up with big ass contracts to mediocrities like Shumpert and Austin Rivers.
 

Cesar Crespo

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It's just your definition of the word elite. I'm guessing most people who don't think George or Butler are elite use the word to mean top 5.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I don't disagree, but what else would explain Butler and George not being elite? It would have to be a very narrow list. They aren't in the "first tier" of players, therefore not elite.
 

BigSoxFan

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I don't disagree, but what else would explain Butler and George not being elite? It would have to be a very narrow list. They aren't in the "first tier" of players, therefore not elite.
So we're arbitrarily sizing these tiers nows?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Butler and George clearly aren't in the same class as Durant and Lebron. Word it how you want to word it. They are in the 2nd group of players behind the first.
 

E5 Yaz

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Butler and George clearly aren't in the same class as Durant and Lebron. Word it how you want to word it. They are in the 2nd group of players behind the first.
And the chances those draft picks are going to turn into players of LeBron or Durant is ... what?
 

Cesar Crespo

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And the chances those draft picks are going to turn into players of LeBron or Durant is ... what?
Not sure what that has to do with anything. Just that if they think PG and Butler aren't elite, that is why. I think the top 25-30 players in the league are elite but there are clearly tiers within those 25-30.
 

E5 Yaz

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Not sure what that has to do with anything. Just that if they think PG and Butler aren't elite, that is why. I think the top 25-30 players in the league are elite but there are clearly tiers within those 25-30.
The "elite" debate began with those saying they wouldn't trade the picks for non-elite players.
 

bowiac

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Trying to understand these numbers: Basically the difference between Jaylen Brown this year and Jimmy Butler years 1-3 is that Brown's FT% is significantly worse and Brown is 2 years younger than Butler's 1st year?
Butler was significantly better per shot (.574 TS% vs. .514) and generated more steals (2% vs. 1.3%). These are the two biggest differences. It adds up to a pretty big difference in BPM (-5 for Brown vs. +1.9 for Butler).

Also isn't using Butler's year 2 numbers a bit misleading since he shot significantly worse in years 1 and 3 until slowly getting better but never as good as his year 2 numbers?
I wasn't the one who picked year 2 as the basis of the comparison for Butler, but it's not especially salient, as the rest of Butler's skills picked up in future years enough to compensate for the shooting regressing.
 

BigSoxFan

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Butler and George clearly aren't in the same class as Durant and Lebron. Word it how you want to word it. They are in the 2nd group of players behind the first.
This is silly. Why are we even here then? We don't have a LeBron. We don't have a Durant. Nobody in the 2017 draft is anywhere close to it either. Just because the path to a title with PG or JB as your best player is harder doesn't mean it can't be done.
 

Statman

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The "elite" debate began with those saying they wouldn't trade the picks for non-elite players.
I don't think anyone is arguing that they wouldn't trade those picks (along with the necessary salary filler) for Butler or George. The harder question is whether it's a good idea to trade those picks in conjunction with the likes of Smart, Brown, Crowder or Bradley.

Unless the Bulls or Pacers are complete morons, the starting point for any potential Butler or George trade begins with a combination of at least two of those players plus the Brooklyn 2017 pick. I don't think either player is worth that because neither of them gets us over the hump against Cleveland and the Warriors would annihilate us in the Finals so I can understand why Ainge decided to stand pat. He's hoping that Fultz, Ball, Jackson, etc. turns out to be a star and we still preserve cap space to throw a max offer at Hayward, CP3, or Blake (or in the off chance that Durant opts out).
 

Cesar Crespo

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This is silly. Why are we even here then? We don't have a LeBron. We don't have a Durant. Nobody in the 2017 draft is anywhere close to it either. Just because the path to a title with PG or JB as your best player is harder doesn't mean it can't be done.
I never said otherwise. Knock down that strawman.
 

Reardon's Beard

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Not overly disappointed as I trust Ainge and like what he and Coach are doing.

My one concern is the lack of finding a big. That was a more than reasonable expectation that could fill a major gap on this squad. I am assuming they have a plan via a buyout or other FA, so if they sort it out then I'll be quite content to watch this team continue to develop and grow. But if they don't - that'll be a missed opportunity for this season.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm fine with drawing pretty tight lines for a PG or JB deal in terms of asset mix. This team is not winning the title with just the addition of one of those two, if they are losing a core rotation player in the deal. If they want to make that trade, it will be better made in the offseason.
Yes there is a chance the value of the 17 pick goes down in the lottery, but the opportunity to build a better overall roster is also there in the form of more movement in trades and free agent options (plus the ability to bring over Zizic and/or Yabusele). It also seems more likely that CHI and IND are willing to deal in the offseason because:

1. CHI is more likely to be on the same page as a front office, and they can make moves to sell tickets (the classic Reinsdorf fear is tanking and nobody showing up)
2. IND will know whether they have the super-max option to use on George and his likelihood of re-signing.

I also think it isn't unreasonable to think about drafting a player with the 2017 pick, it extends out the timeline in a way that could be trouble with Horford, but.... if you think he's a guy who could be a big contributor in 2 years and a top 15 guy long term.... that's a really good team (especially if you can plug a hole in FA) that transitions into a team built around 2017 Nets (Fultz, Jackson etc.) Smart, Brown, Zizic etc. that's a really intriguing core that comes up for their money just as the current core expires. That's a possible way to be a legit contender for more of a 5-7 year window than the 2-4 that a George or Butler deal leads to.
 

mauf

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PER has its limitations, but Butler is 12th in the league this season, and George isn't in the top 20. Gordon Hayward is #20 and might be available this summer as a free agent.

If there wasn't a salary cap, maybe I'd trade the BKN pick for Butler, but in a world where that costs the C's both the pick and their cap space, I would pass. Once you start throwing a couple of the C's other players in the package, saying "thanks but no thanks" is easy.
 

biff_hardbody

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Apr 27, 2016
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Butler was significantly better per shot (.574 TS% vs. .514) and generated more steals (2% vs. 1.3%). These are the two biggest differences. It adds up to a pretty big difference in BPM (-5 for Brown vs. +1.9 for Butler).


I wasn't the one who picked year 2 as the basis of the comparison for Butler, but it's not especially salient, as the rest of Butler's skills picked up in future years enough to compensate for the shooting regressing.
How is it that in one breath his one year shooting percentage isn't salient but in the other his TS% makes him significantly better? What makes up for the difference that isn't represented in FG%? And Brown's BLK% is 1.3 compared to 1.1% for Butler in that year. Is there a number that represents the relationship between blocks and steals on defense?

Basically, what makes you think Brown can't be as good as Butler besides that obviously Brown has to hit 80% FT to ever make the leap to Butler's level?
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,240
PER has its limitations, but Butler is 12th in the league this season, and George isn't in the top 20. Gordon Hayward is #20 and might be available this summer as a free agent.

If there wasn't a salary cap, maybe I'd trade the BKN pick for Butler, but in a world where that costs the C's both the pick and their cap space, I would pass. Once you start throwing a couple of the C's other players in the package, saying "thanks but no thanks" is easy.
Which is certainly a reasonable position to take. If I knew today that the Celtics could land Hayward, I would completely agree with staying the course. However, if they don't land Hayward and can't get Griffin, they're basically going to enter 2017-2018 with the possibility of losing IT/Bradley following the season, watch Horford decline even further, and then being left with a core of Smart, Brown, Fultz/Jackson/Ball/Horford/2018 Nets pick. Certainly not a bad place to be but once again lacking in this mystical "elite" player. And the team would be incredibly young, which means they'd have no shot at a title for another 4-5 years.