I can agree with this. Noel does all the things the C's don't but his lack of outside game is a glaring problem for him. I wonder what he would have cost the C's besides a pick like that.
Celtics Trade Deadline Game Thread
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Also, I agree that Thomas will find that his market is limited to floundering team-types just looking to add a star to sell tickets. I also think that if Ainge and Stevens talked to him about adding impact players to actually have a chance to win, I believe he might be inclined to go with the plan. That doesn't mean he would come cheaply but they may be able to find common ground given where he is with his career. And its as simple as this - if he isn't onboard, you let him go.
The reason the Warriors and Durant happened is that Curry, Green, Thompson and Durant decided that they want to win more than they want to be "the man". We've seen this before with James, Wade and Bosh and Pierce, KG and Allen before them. The recipe is there - the C's just need to see if they can sell it to Thomas.
The reason the Warriors and Durant happened is that Curry, Green, Thompson and Durant decided that they want to win more than they want to be "the man". We've seen this before with James, Wade and Bosh and Pierce, KG and Allen before them. The recipe is there - the C's just need to see if they can sell it to Thomas.
Only thing with Thomas is he's been underpaid his whole career. I'd assume guys like him, Avery and Crowder are going to be seeking a payday.
If you were to trade IT4 though, what teams actually match up? Utah. New Orleans. Philly matches up really well with a healthy Embiid/Simmons and would have the assets to move. Pacers but they would have nothing to trade. It only makes sense if they keep George, Turner and Teague. The Bucks would've made sense if Jabari didn't get injured. May still make sense anyway. Maybe the Bulls.
If you were to trade IT4 though, what teams actually match up? Utah. New Orleans. Philly matches up really well with a healthy Embiid/Simmons and would have the assets to move. Pacers but they would have nothing to trade. It only makes sense if they keep George, Turner and Teague. The Bucks would've made sense if Jabari didn't get injured. May still make sense anyway. Maybe the Bulls.
Butler's asking price from the Bulls should go down too as there's less time on his contract.
The T-Wolves could also be in the mix. I know they have Dunn and Thomas is not the kind of player Thibs wants. That said, he and Towns would pair well together along side one of Wiggins or Lavine (assuming this trade would make room for them to deal one of them away and maybe in some sort of larger deal with Boston).
Those guys all got paid though. In a few instances they took slightly less than the max, but they certainly didn't take a huge discount
Curry might have the most team-friendly contract in basketball. You are right about Thomspon, Green and Durant. And I am not suggesting the Celtics can or should try to get Thomas on the cheap. He has elite level skills offensively and while his speed will decline, there is a scenario where he evolves into a catch and shoot guy. In other words, he has a fair bit of value to the Celtics even if he loses some of his steps and ability to create in space or at the rim. The other thing to note is that if Ainge does his job in amassing talent correctly, Thomas will naturally get more room as teams are forced to sag off him to account for other efficient scorers. The reality of the Celtics as presently constructed is that their second and third options are likely fourth and fifth options on many other contending teams.
How much does "Keeping him out of the division/conference" play into this, for Philly? So if hypothetically there were similar offers, would Philly be better off taking the Mavs offer? Asking in sincerity, not in trolling/goading mode. You all know the ins and outs of the NBA better than I, so I was curious how much that would play a part (e.g. Sox not trading with MFY).
It's possible, but I don't get the sense teams give this stuff too much serious consideration. Playoff spots aren't as limited in the NBA as they are in MLB, and divisions don't play a big role either. Further, Philly is a ways away from competing for the conference title.
It's possible, but it sound strange to me. From what I've read, Danny just didn't re-engage with Philly about this after being rebuffed in the offseason.
I'm also not clear why they didn't show more interest in Noel. My best guess is it shows they truly value the cap flexibility for next year, and could just take a crack in free agency if they thought he was worth paying real money and they miss out on bigger fish.
With respect to trading inside the division, I'm inclined to agree its not typically a primary concern. That said, and I recognize these names were not part of the proposed Noel trade, it got me thinking there are several Cs - Smart, Thomas and Crowder to be specific - I would really not relish seeing with a chip on their shoulder from being the other side of a trade. fwiw I think its a good sign and reflects Danny's selection preference for highly competitive athletes.
Sure. I wouldn't give up a 2018 first rounder (as an example) if I knew he wouldn't want to stay. The key is the option value of keeping him if the fit is good, and you strike out on other ways to spend the cap space.
I do think he can play alongside Horford or Olynyk however, so I'm not sure the PT situation is a big deal.
I don't mean to be championing Noel exactly, but I think bench/energy guy underestimates the roll he would play here. We could easily start Thomas/Smart/Crowder/Horford/Noel and have some real size advantages for a change.
There is always the 'Horford doesn't want to be a C' meme, along with those who insist he has more value as a 5, but I'm seeing the distinction between 4 vs stretch 5 vs 'generic big' getting ever more blurry.
There is always the 'Horford doesn't want to be a C' meme, along with those who insist he has more value as a 5, but I'm seeing the distinction between 4 vs stretch 5 vs 'generic big' getting ever more blurry.
I guess I misread Dev's point there and thought it to be about the rest of this season (which I'd have gladly given up our own first next year for, or anything non-Nets).
Of course, resigning him that comes into play, but as you cite, he wouldn't be a bench energy guy in that scenario. He'd fit in quite nicely.
My point was that Noel had reportedly been unhappy with his role in Philadelphia and there's not much indication that he would have gotten more than 20 MPG with the Celtics, given the emphasis that Stevens' offense puts on spacing.
Also, it seems clear that whatever the tampering rules have to say on the matter, agents can let their clients' wishes be known to front offices seeking to make trades etc. In fact, I would be shocked if deals weren't negotiated with agents involved from a relatively early stage.
Also, it seems clear that whatever the tampering rules have to say on the matter, agents can let their clients' wishes be known to front offices seeking to make trades etc. In fact, I would be shocked if deals weren't negotiated with agents involved from a relatively early stage.
Ok, then I go back to disagreeing with your point. I don't think Ainge would give a shit about Noel's preference about his role and would count on him playing hard for his next contract and contributing what the team needs in rim protection and rebounding. There is more than 20 mpg available for that imo, but I can see the argument. I just don't agree with it.
Bowiac's point about resigning him I think is valid. If he's generally not going to be happy and there's little chance to resign him, then you have to evaluate his presence versus value of what you trade. I'm not in the camp that they should just concede the finals to Cleveland and GS so I'd be ok with having beaten the Mavs package. So a non-Nets first for me would be fine. There's only so many rotational guys this team can draft and find roster spots for going forward.
If they could have gotten Danny to this point, Bulls should have "settled" for the 2017 Nets pick, Jaylen, and maybe the Clippers or Memphis pick. They could have restarted their team with that.
I was looking at some 2016 draft reports and it's amazing how many people had Jaylen as a "Do Not Want" player.
I was looking at some 2016 draft reports and it's amazing how many people had Jaylen as a "Do Not Want" player.
The more I see of Jaylen this month, the more I have him on the "Do Not Trade" list. His defense has been getting stifling this month. We may see the oddity of a guy that didn't get an invite to the futures game ending up on the all rookie team at the rate he's improving.
If he finishes the year on a tear, it's not even out of the realm of possibility he's ROY depending on Embiid's status and how the other rookies close out the year.
I don't think so. Saric, Murray, Hernangomez, Hield, Brogdan, Ferrell, Chriss, and Ingram all have better cases than Brown.
He'd have to finish on a 20+ game tear but with the way Saric is playing, it doesn't matter much anyway. Those other guys have better cases but they wouldn't be hard to catch assuming none of them take off. Murray has been playing better of late, too. If Jaylen finishes the last 22 games the way he's played since the all star break, he'd be moving up the list. It's a long shot, regardless. But with Embiid out, that award is totally up for grabs if Saric doesn't continue putting up 20/10 every night.
I wouldn't want Ainge to do this unless he thought Noel was a guy he wanted to sign going forward.
With the Celtics surely looking to make a bunch of change for a dollar, I wouldn't want them burning any dimes, or even nickels, on a rental.
Would be pretty brutal to trade, say Rozier, the 2018 #1 and filler to get Noel, then find out this summer the Bulls kinda liked Rozier.
Noels' weird off court stuff kinda worried me anyway.
Sure. I just don't think it's as binary as this in most cases. Whether you sign Noel or not can depend on factors such as how he works with the rest of the team, with Stevens, and what other uses you have for the cap space.
[quite]Would be pretty brutal to trade, say Rozier, the 2018 #1 and filler to get Noel, then find out this summer the Bulls kinda liked Rozier.[/quote]
This sort of thinking seems to be too limiting, and would preclude basically any moves. Can also be turned around as "what if we re-sign Noel and then it turns out next trade deadline the Bulls like Noel." If Danny has concrete reason to think that the Bulls have an outsized valuation on Rozier, then fine, hold him back, and offer something else. Applying a blanket fear of the unknown trade filter is problematic however.
It really comes down to how much one likes Noel. I think he's a very good center prospect, with the potential to be top-tier defensively, and average offensively. If you don't think highly of him however, then sure, the option value isn't worth much either.
This sort of thinking seems to be too limiting, and would preclude basically any moves. Can also be turned around as "what if we re-sign Noel and then it turns out next trade deadline the Bulls like Noel." If Danny has concrete reason to think that the Bulls have an outsized valuation on Rozier, then fine, hold him back, and offer something else. Applying a blanket fear of the unknown trade filter is problematic however.
It really comes down to how much one likes Noel. I think he's a very good center prospect, with the potential to be top-tier defensively, and average offensively. If you don't think highly of him however, then sure, the option value isn't worth much either.[/QUOTE]
I was responding to the part I bolded, trading for Noel as a rental.
I would preclude pretty much any move for a rental for this current team.
Okay - as I would I. As I said, I wanted to trade for Noel for the option value - maybe they resign him, maybe they don't.
What if PHI really liked Justin Anderson? Its possible Cs made a small offer and PHI chose DAL. Makes as much sense as any other theory offered up